Electing a wedding chart

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Jim Eshelman
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Electing a wedding chart

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:22 am

As some of you (who know be personally) already know, Marion and I have been formally engaged for almost 10 years (the decade mark will be in January). This step was taken both to affirm our commitment to spend the rest of our lives together and to make a public statement that we were doing so.

The biggest barrier to turning engagement into marriage was that she was married - a complicated story that need not be told here - and her husband had been avoiding communications and attempts to resolve it. To make a long, tedious story brief, Marion just learned a couple of weeks ago (with the help of an attorney friend) that the husband had actually divorced her in 2006. (We suspect his evasiveness in the intervening time was because he thought she wanted a piece of his business, which she didn't.)

So... I learned on the night that PSSR Moon squared SSR Venus that the primary barrier to marriage doesn't exist any longer. We've started the long-delayed process of planning a wedding, which, of course, involves picking a WHEN.

BTW, the engagement chart is a hoot! It occurred January 28, 2009, 0:17 AM PST, Los Angeles (use Oakwood, CA for coordinates within two blocks of our home at that time). Several things of interest in the chart, including both the perfect symbolism of an exact Moon-Sun conjunction (0°09'), closely conjunct Jupiter, square the Libra Ascendant. But take a look at the Venus and its aspects - which certainly shows the decade of delay, although it also highlights the single best bonding aspect in our charts:

25°18' Aqu - t Uranus
26°19' Leo - t Saturn
27°24' Aqu - my Moon
27°29' Aqu - her local Asc

28°16' Aqu - t Venus

I have a tentative wedding chart picked, but I thought I'd run the analysis past all of you (1) to get a collective "second opinion" and (2) in any case as a demonstration of the election process.
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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:22 am

First the broad strokes: What year, and what general time of year. Here is my thinking.

I was born October 10, 1954, 4:13 AM CST, Rochester, IN. Marion was born May 30, 1963, 5:03 AM EDT, Staten Island, NY. We live in Los Angeles at 34N03'46", 118W18'47".

I turn 65 next October. Were there no other reason to pick the current birth day year, there are significant Social Security benefits I can extend to Marion if we're married before crossing that age line.

My current SSR (set up for Milwaukee) is a magnificent, hand-crafted Solar Return. From the way things have been going so far, I'm pretty sure the original site of the SSR is persisting as the primary expression of the chart even after my return to Los Angeles (where I have a much less kindly SSR). In any case, the decision (for non-astrological reasons) is that we should do this before my next birthday (next October 10).

The next way to shave the time into two parts is do see which of Marion's SSRs this should be under. Her current one (which actually set up at the northern edge of Malibu near Leo Carrillo State Park at 34N02'40", 118W54'58" (the one for home is nearly identical) has, among other features, Jupiter 0°00' from Descendant (in Libra, in case that matters) and Uranus 0°01' from square MC. The Jupiter is almost partile aligned with her natal 0°03' Venus-Neptune opposition (which, therefore, is also across the horizon).

Her next one - presuming we stay in LA (which we probably will, since she has to fly out on a business trip a day later) has Uranus exactly culminating and Ascendant very close to square her natal Venus-Neptune. That's not bad - not as great as the current one, but not bad - until we see that SSR Moon is closely square Pluto (and probably will be transited by Saturn during the year: I haven't worked that out yet). So the current SSR is advantageous especially because of the splendid symbolism of Jupiter in Libra exactly setting. (It's even trine Venus and Neptune - which still carries some weight in the SSR on the "first reading").

So, my judgement is that the wedding should be scheduled for earlier than May 30, 2019.

There's another astrological reason for this to occur this year: I've known for decades that this is the year my progressed Sun squares my natal Moon. It's already in orb (about half a degree out at the moment) and becomes exact soon before Marion's birthday.
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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:40 am

Having narrowed the time to between now and May 30, 2019, there are other considerations that block out one or two long stretches of that time.

One most obvious to me is that transiting Saturn squares my Sun in the middle of that time, from Feb 15 to Mar 9 (exact 2/25). We want to avoid that.

Some other transits to my natal worth noting: Uranus squares my Jupiter-Uranus from now through mid-February (pretty good, with the peaks in mid-January). Jupiter squares my Moon (and thus our Moon-LAsc conjunction) 2/24-3/16 and, after leaving out the Saturn-to-Sun part, that leaves March 6-16 highlighted. It then comes back May 5-25.

Marion has a series of Jupiter transits between now and the end of the year, then picks up Saturn to her Jupiter in mid-January. There's not a lot to play with other than making sure it's after January 22, when Saturn leaves Jupiter.

Of the dates not blocked by the Saturn-Sun transit, I have a Moon-Saturn progressed square in December, then progressed Sun square natal Moon is exact immediately before Marion's birthday, May 28. (One doesn't need an exact match to the minute - a degree is good enough - but that's the exact point). Though I have a Moon-Venus square in June, we've already narrowed the best time to before May 30. Marion gets into some interesting progressions next year (including some that reinforce avoiding February) with the sweetest being Mercury square her Venus in early March (exact hit not needed). SQ Moon aspects the angular Jupiter and Uranus for her in different parts of May.

What stands out from all of this is that, with my Sun-Moon progression peaking immediately before her birthday, we note that dozens of our friends from across the country will coincidentally be in Los Angeles for a scheduled three-day event on Memorial Day weekend (May 24-26). Picking a day either immediately before that, or immediately after that, has some huge practical considerations, with May 27 being both Memorial Day itself and the day of the 0°00' Sun-Moon progression.
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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:02 am

Can we filter better with Lunar Returns?

Moon is in Aquarius May 27. My Moon is in Aquarius and Marion's in Leo. We each have a lunar or demi-lunar to divide the time before that from the time after that. (This has nothing to do with how the marriage will turn out, just with how we will experience the wedding.)

Marion's SLR from two weeks earlier has no transiting planets angular, but natal Jupiter 3° below Ascendant. Her Demi-SLR May 26 has transiting Jupiter rising (4°13' above) and natal Jupiter 0°40' from IC - doubled Jupiter. So her best concentration of Jupiter symbolism is once she is feeling the Demi-SLR, which will be about 24 hours before 9:23 PM May 26.

We're both absolutely committed for events May 24-26, so that limits the (tentative) time frame to no earlier than May 27 but earlier than May 30 (unless we jump to a new time frame altogether).

My new SLR May 28, 8:22 PM as a Moon-Jupiter square exactly on angles, among other things (Moon 0°06' for here). I'll be feeling it by approximately 24 hours earlier. - My prior SLR leans unfavorable, with the Uranus at MC sharing honors with natal Saturn exactly square Ascendant. My Demi-SLR May 13 has Venus closely angular, but also has Saturn-Pluto on EP. For the best wedding experience for me, the date should be no earlier than the evening of May 27.

We seem to be narrowing in on it.
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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:38 am

There is some small awkwardness here. It is that, after people have been in town for a weekend, and we say, "Hey, and we'll have the wedding on the national holiday the day after," one might expect that we would have it during the day of the 27th so that people could still make late night flights or otherwise manage their return travel to the East Coast and Bay Area. When we say, "And we're having it in the evening" it might draw an unfavorable response. Nonetheless, it is evening time that brings the best charts for us to have the best time at our own event.

It's possible there are other dates. This, though, is what we are playing with at the moment.

And then, it turns out, there is a perfect-seeming minute for all of this to climax. Playing with different times and aspects, I find that at 6:07 PM three things occur:

1. Transiting Venus (20°21' Aries) exactly sets in Los Angeles.
2. Transiting Venus conjoins Marion's natal Venus (19°28' Aries), which therefore is on Dsc, and opposes her SSR Jupiter (20°46' Libra), which is exactly rising.
3. My Venus (1°53' Scorpio) is on Eastpoint.

Transiting Venus, her Venus, my Venus. Seems a good moment, no?

Here is the proposed wedding chart, which has many subtleties I haven't mentioned. It is for May 27, 2019, 6:07 PM, Los Angeles, CA (an exact location still to be determined and perhaps the time tweaked a few minutes accordingly). I invite everyone's opinions on the election and the chart.

Image
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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:52 am

PS - Are there any transits to the engagement chart? Indeed they are, and they are a bit surprising.

t Pluto conj. r Mars 0°03'
t Uranus conj. r Dsc 0°32'
t Jupiter sq. r Saturn 0°09', r Uranus 0°52'
t Venus conj. r EP 1°00'
t Moon conj. r Saturn 0°02', r Uranus 0°58'
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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by Mike » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:00 am

This is fascinating, Jim. Thank you for walking through your thoughts on this.
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:52 am
PS - Are there any transits to the engagement chart? Indeed they are, and they are a bit surprising.
[...]
t Venus conj. r EP 1°00'
When you say this, do you mean square the MC, or conjunct the "Equatorial Ascendant" point in longitude?

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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:12 am

Mike wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:00 am
This is fascinating, Jim. Thank you for walking through your thoughts on this.
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:52 am
PS - Are there any transits to the engagement chart? Indeed they are, and they are a bit surprising.
[...]
t Venus conj. r EP 1°00'
When you say this, do you mean square the MC, or conjunct the "Equatorial Ascendant" point in longitude?
I never use the term "Equatorial Ascendant," which I regard as a travesty.

That aside, I mean neither of these except that I'm cheating. In theory, I mean transiting Venus conj. the EP in right ascension (same as square MC in RA), but I cheated by using the orb in longitude rather than going through another 5-10 minutes of calculations to get exactly how close it is in precession-deleted RA.

You're going to be in town that weekend?
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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by Mike » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:55 am

Ah, I understand.

Yes, I do plan on being in town, barring extreme unforeseen circumstances.
Checked my prognostics for that period... It looks pretty good, minus a Saturn conjunction to natal Mercury that is about half a degree during that weekend. But my demi-lunar looks great for LA, and the lunars leading up to it are similarly encouraging. (If I'm there long enough for that!)

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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by Arena » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:33 pm

This has nothing to do with how the marriage will turn out
That's not actually true. It has a lot to do with that.

Most people advice to get married on a waxing moon or close to a full moon.

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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:41 pm

I wonder if you missed that i was saying that our lunar returns in wedding day have nothing to do with how the mariage turbs out, but only with how the wedding turns out.
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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:08 pm

Sunset isn't til 7:58 PM. I was thinking if people thought you were waiting for sunset, they'd be more likely to stay for it.
Moon will neither be rising nor setting and the full moon won't be till the 29th, so that's no help.

If people setting up plane reservations are alerted to how long it takes from your venue to the airport checkin, they can plan accordingly. Aren't most late flights to the east coast called redeye because they don't leave till after midnight? Might be worth checking with expedia or something just to know when evening flights leave.

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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:20 pm

If this date stays as the date, we'll certainly let people know timing etc. At the moment, we haven't identified a location - still settling on whether this is the date.
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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by Danica » Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:08 pm

This thread makes me so happy
in so many ways
:D :D :D

I think this is a perfect timing, both astrologically and from the practical perspective.
QUID VOLIS ILUD FAC

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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by Mike » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:31 pm

Danica wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:08 pm
This thread makes me so happy
in so many ways
:D :D :D

I think this is a perfect timing, both astrologically and from the practical perspective.
I can agree that I'm super into it :D

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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by SteveS » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:08 pm

:) The long delay for this marriage has allowed a great election for the wedding.

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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by mikestar13 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:50 am

Congratulations to you an Marion, Jim. :D Her ex divorced her and didn't tell her? That's despicable on his part. Sue is terribly unhappy I'm divorcing her, but she is fully aware of it. The election charts look fine, and thank you for the excellent example for how to do electional astrology sidereal style.
Time matters

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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by Arena » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:39 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:41 pm
I wonder if you missed that i was saying that our lunar returns in wedding day have nothing to do with how the mariage turbs out, but only with how the wedding turns out.
Well, the lunar return is one thing, and then there are the transits and the wedding chart itself.
I can see that you are not taking that into account, but I would suggest you do.

Also, I can see that you are thinking about the practicality of when other people are likely to be in town. Well, you and Marion can always go to the town hall (or wherever you plan to do this) on the right day for your charts ... and then just have the party on another day when people you know are in town.

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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:30 am

Arena wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:39 am
Well, the lunar return is one thing, and then there are the transits and the wedding chart itself.
Of course. It's just that I wasn't, at the point of the phrase you objected to, referring to the wedding chart at all, but only to the return chart.
I can see that you are not taking that into account, but I would suggest you do.
On lunar phase? No, though I appreciate you taking the time for input. If I were planning a magical invocation, I'd wide the lunar tides but, in an event chart I'm not aware of any evidentiary basis for this being a factor. Most of the traditional rules of election astrology from the last few centuries are from a deeply superstitious period of astrology.
Also, I can see that you are thinking about the practicality of when other people are likely to be in town. Well, you and Marion can always go to the town hall (or wherever you plan to do this) on the right day for your charts ... and then just have the party on another day when people you know are in town.
Then, of course, we'd be adding a thousand or two thousand dollars to our own costs just for the travel and lodging. Since the charts all line up explicitly for where we already live, there's no reason to do anything so imprudent.
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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:12 am

Jim, I think you missed what was said. Going to the town hall is not a destination wedding.

Have the ceremony when the planets align best, and then have your party when your friends can come. That can be after the wedding, or before. Like party in the afternoon, then wave goodbye to friends who have to catch planes, then have the ceremony later, with anybody who could stay for it.

A daytime party would probably cost less if that's a concern.

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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:19 am

Jupiter Sets at Dawn wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:12 am
Jim, I think you missed what was said. Going to the town hall is not a destination wedding.

Have the ceremony when the planets align best, and then have your party when your friends can come. That can be after the wedding, or before. Like party in the afternoon, then wave goodbye to friends who have to catch planes, then have the ceremony later, with anybody who could stay for it.
Thanks for clarifying. - We haven't looked at venues yet, and it may all be in a private home. For this particular group of friends, being at the actual wedding ceremony will be quite important to them.
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Re: Electing a wedding chart

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:21 am

Well, if you decide soon, it shouldn't cost a bundle to change a plane ticket, and if you have a good enough party, people can sleep in the living room and won't need to pay extra for a room.

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