Murderers - data saught

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Jim Eshelman
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Murderers - data saught

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:25 am

Does anyone have timed birth data on any murderers other than these?

Allan Menzies
Andrew Cunanan
Angel Resendiz
Angelo Buono
Bruno Hauptman
Charles Ray Hatcher
Charley Whitman
Clifford Olson
Dan White
Dennis Nilsen
Dennis Rader
Dylan Klebold
Edward Gein
Eric Harris
Erik Menendez
Fred West
Fritz Haarmann
Henri Desire Landru
Herbert Mullin
Howard Unruh
Ian Brady
James Degorski
James Holmes
James Huberty
Jeffrey Dahmer
Jim Jones
John Allen Muhammed
John Hinckley
John Wayne Gacy
Josef Mengele
Jurgen Bartsch
Lee Harvey Oswald
Lyle Menendez
Mark David Chapman
Myra Hindley
OJ Simpson
Omar Mateen
Peter Kurten
Peter Sutcliffe
Phil Spector
Randall Woodfield
Richard Bonin
Richard Ramirez
Richard Speck
Stephen Paddock
Susan Atkins
Ted Bundy
Thomas Watt Hamilton
Timothy McVeigh
William Heirens
Winnie Ruth Judd
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Arthur Shawcross

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:35 am

Veronica recently provided the data on Arthur Shawcross and I wrote a bit about him here:
https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2346
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Re: Murderers - data saught

Post by Veronica » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:22 am

4-23-1970 Rochester NY 8:30 am I have no idea how many confirmed

Jan. 2 1973 Rochester NY 4:30 pm victim/kidnapped imprisioned but escaped

oct. 29 1971 Rochester NY 8:45 pm attempted murder/suicicde
very very very dangerous men

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Volkert van der Graaf

Post by FlorencedeZ. » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:30 pm

date of birth: july 9 1969 8:30am, Middelburg, the Netherlands
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkert_van_der_Graaf

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Tristan van der Vlis

Post by FlorencedeZ. » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:40 pm

date of birth: april 8 1986 7:09am, Amsterdam, the Netherlands
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphen_aa ... l_shooting

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Re: Murderers - data saught

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:06 pm

Flo, thanks for the two.
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Robert Black

Post by Lyse » Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:13 pm

Scottish serial killer

Black, Robert
21 April 1947 at 20:35 (= 8:35 PM )
Falkirk, Scotland

Data source
Quoted BC/BR
Rodden Rating AA
Source: Astrodienst

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_ ... al_killer)
Last edited by Lyse on Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Karla Leanne Homolka & Paul Kenneth Bernardo

Post by Lyse » Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:20 pm

Husband and wife serial killers


Karla Leanne Homolka
4 May 1970 at 00:20 (= 12:20 AM )
Mississauga, Ontario (CAN), 43n35, 79w37

Data source
From memory
Rodden Rating A
Source: Astrodienst

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Homolka


Paul Kenneth Bernardo
27 August 1964 at 08:31 (= 08:31 AM )
Toronto, Ontario (CAN), 43n39, 79w23

Quoted BC/BR
Rodden Rating AA
Collector: Rodden
Source: Astrodienst



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bernardo
Last edited by Lyse on Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Murderers - data saught

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:45 pm

Thanks, Lyse. What's the source of the birth time? (I meant to ask these on the others so, Flo, if you could answer also?)

Two more close Venus-Mars conjunctions? Across two different studies more than half a century apart, this has remained the strongest aspect voice. - And a common Moon-sign for a "team."
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Re: Murderers - data saught

Post by Lyse » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:07 pm

The source was Astrodienst, Jim.
If you’re looking for a few more murderers I can probably dig a few up. Bored former librarian in the house. :lol:
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Re: Murderers - data saught

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:10 pm

My current sample is 75. That's already larger than the Bradley study. I think more examples is better. There is already the risk of a data pool having no fixed definition where it came from, but up to this point it has been "whatever I can get my hands on," so it's not like it's a clean set already.

The aspect mix at present is:

31 - Mo-Ju Ve-Ma
29 - Mo-Se
28 - Ma-Ne
26 - Me-Ju
25 - Mo-Ma Ve-Ur
24 - Ve-Pl Ma-Pl
23 - Mo-Ve Mo-Ne Me-Ne Me-Er Ve-Ju
22 - Mo-Ur Su-Er Me-Ma Ve-Se
21 - Ve-Ne Ma-Se
20 - Mo-Me Su-Ma Su-Se Ve-Er
19 - Su-Sa Su-Pl Me-Ur
18 - Mo-Sa Mo-Pl Su-Ne Ma-Ju
17 - Mo-Su
15 - Su-Ju Me-Se
14 - Me-Pl
13 - Su-Me Me-Sa Ve-Sa Ma-Ur Ma-Er
12 - Su-Ve Me-Ve
10 - Ma-Sa
9 - Mo-Er
9 Su-Ur
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Re: Murderers - data saught

Post by Lyse » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:26 pm

Interesting, I’ve seen a number with Ma-Ne and Ve-Ma.

Will work on finding a few more.

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Peter Tobin

Post by Lyse » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:35 pm

Serial killer

Tobin, Peter
27 August 1946 at 16:50 (= 4:50 PM )
Place: Johnstone, Scotland, 55n50, 4w31
Data source
Quoted BC/BR
Rodden Rating AA
Source: Astrodienst

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Tobin

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Patrick Carraher

Post by Lyse » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:49 pm

Murderer - executed

Patrick Carraher
19 October 1906 at 17:45 (= 5:45 PM )
Glasgow, Scotland, 55n53, 4w15

Quoted BC/BR
Rodden Rating AA
Source: Astrodienst


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Carraher

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Reginald & Ronald Kray

Post by Lyse » Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:13 pm

Murderers and professional criminals (identical twins)
Ronnie, the younger brother, was the dominant sibling and diagnosed as a paranoid, schizophrenic psychopath.

Reginald Kray (Reggie)
24 October 1933 at 20:00 (= 8:00 PM )
London, England, 51n30, 0w10

Data source
BC/BR in hand
Rodden Rating AA
Collector: Rodden
Source: Astrodienst

Ronald Kray (Ronnie)
24 October 1933 at 20:10 (= 8:10 PM )
London, England, 51n30, 0w10

Data source
Quoted BC/BR
Rodden Rating AA
Collector: Rodden
Source: Astrodienst

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kray_twins

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Re: Murderers - data saught

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:25 am

With these new additions, angularity patterns haven't changed: Moon is overwhelmingly the most foreground planet (42 out of 79), while Venus and Jupiter are most often background (30 each out of 79).

Luminary patterns are about the same, with Moon in Sagittarius standing out ahead of everything (and Moon in Scorpio in 2nd lunar place). My four score examples have more Leo Suns than any other sign.

The aspects stay about the same (but with Moon-Jupiter falling off) - here is the current summary. The persistence of the Moon-Sedna strength continues to hold my attention since it's already consistent with my trial interpretation of the aspect.

36 - Ve-Ma
34 - Ma-Ne
33 - Mo-Se
31- Mo-Ju
28 - Me-Ne
27 - Me-Ju Ve-Se Ma-Pl
26 - Ve-Ur
25 - Mo-Ma Ve-Ju
24 - Me-Ma Me-Er Ve-Pl
23 - Mo-Ve Mo-Ne
22 - Mo-Ur Su-Er
21 - Su-Pl Ve-Ne Ve-Er Ma-Se
20 - Mo-Me Mo-Pl Su-Ma Su-Sa Su-Se Ma-Ju
19 - Me-Ur
18 - Mo-Sa Su-Ne Me-Pl
17 - Mo-Su
16 - Ma-Er
15 - Su-Ju Me-Se
14 - Su-Me Me-Ve Me-Sa Ve-Sa
13 - Ma-Sa Ma-Ur
12 - Su-Ve
11 - Su-Ur
9 - Mo-Er
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Re: Murderers - data saught

Post by FlorencedeZ. » Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:51 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:45 pm
Thanks, Lyse. What's the source of the birth time? (I meant to ask these on the others so, Flo, if you could answer also?
Hi Jim,
Volkert van der Graaf is on astrodienst and unfortunately I cannot recall where I found the time of birth of Tristan van der Vlis.
It may not be the correct time therefor.

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Re: Murderers - data saught

Post by Lyse » Tue Mar 14, 2023 3:14 pm

Jody Lynn Herring

September 11, 1974
6:23 PM
Berlin, Vermont

Source: Vermont Birth Records

Quadruple murderer - cousins, aunt and social worker. Drug and alcohol addict.

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Re: Murderers - data saught

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:22 pm

Lyse wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2023 3:14 pm
Jody Lynn Herring

September 11, 1974
6:23 PM
Berlin, Vermont
This one is quite strange. Besides the Leo Sun, this chart is as close to opposite the usual murderer profile as can be/ Having two benefics the most foreground planets (and in close foreground opposition) and the Moon-Saturn conjunction remotely background, is quite unlike the rest of the charts in the set. - There are at least addiction indicators: Gemini Moon and a close Mercury-Mars conjunction in Virgo.
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Re: Murderers - data saught

Post by Lyse » Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:27 pm

Yes, I was surprised. She had a very hard childhood as well.

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Re: Murderers - data saught

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:55 pm

Something I found interesting concerning the collection of murderers so far.

Out of 81 charts in the current collection, 21 have a stellium (defined as at least four planets in the same sign). That's one in four, which is much more common than I see in the general population.

They break down by sign as follows:

3 - Vir, Sco, Ari
2 - Tau, Can, Lib, Sag, Pis
1 - Gem, Leo
0 - Cap, Aqu

I don't know what the normal distribution/frequency of stellia are per sign, but the fact that the three signs where Venus is debilitated top this list is fascinating to me.
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Re: Murderers - data saught

Post by Lyse » Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:00 am

Out of 81 charts in the current collection, 21 have a stellium (defined as at least four planets in the same sign). That's one in four, which is much more common than I see in the general population.
Lucy Letby, a British nurse, recently convicted of murdering seven infants, has a five planet stellium in Sagittarius.

Although there isn’t an available birth time for Letby, I was able to obtain birth and death times, for several of her victims. I was hoping to look at the synastry but haven’t got around to it yet.

January 4, 1990
Hereford, Herefordshire, England

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Letby

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Re: Murderers - data saught

Post by FlorencedeZ. » Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:17 pm

Additionally I checked these and both came up with a Stellium. (possibly for Hans van Zon)

Joran van der Sloot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joran_van_der_Sloot
Regardless of birthtime he has a Cancer Stellium.

Hans van Zon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_van_Zon
If he were born before 1:52PM he had a Taurus Stellium.

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Re: Murderers - data saught

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:34 pm

At this point, I'm only interested in examples with known birth times, though I thank you both fort those finds.

The Sagittarian stellium, of course, matches the very famous case of Ian Brady, while Taurus matches Peter Hurten and John Wayne Gacy.

Cancer isn't common in the list. The main example is one of the most famous people with "negative parent issues," Lizzie Borden. The other example I have is Gerald Gallego, but I really think the driving force for his spree was his wife, who has a much more dramatic chart for such things.
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