Excellent Natal Midpoint Rules, by Robert Hand

General Discussion on Natal Astrology matters for which a specific forum does not exist
Post Reply
SteveS
Synetic Member
Synetic Member
Posts: 1811
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 5:11 am
Gender:

Excellent Natal Midpoint Rules, by Robert Hand

Post by SteveS » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:01 am

Before I discovered Sidereal Astrology, I studied a-lot of Robert Hand’s material on Natal Midpoints, which imo, offer possible important deleinations for a Natal Chart, when not seen/understood with Sidereal Astrology alone. In Robert Hand’s book ‘Horoscope Symbols’ he writes in the following link below about weighing the strengths of certain midpoints. Most modern Astrological Computer Programs have ‘Midpoint Tree lists’ for all the Midpoint point structures in a Natal Chart, and will identify the Direct Midpoints in a Natal Chart with a ‘D’ besides a Direct Midpoint. Robert Hand considered identification of Direct Midpoints in a Natal Chart important. As a companion book for reading about certain tones for a Direct Natal Midpoint, Reinhold Ebertin's book, 'Combinations of Stellar Influences' is a most excellent book to have on your astrological bookshelf.

https://imgur.com/a/IcKnLvN

User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Nabu
Posts: 7251
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:40 pm
Gender:

Re: Excellent Natal Midpoint Rules, by Robert Hand

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:59 am

FWIW, I agree with the spirit of all of this, and disagree quite sharply with some of it, especially the first point below.

1. I see no difference between direct and indirect midpoints but draw the line one level lower, at squares to midpoints. To be clear, "direct midpoint contact" means conjunction or opposition to a midpoint (since there is no difference between the two). Squares to midpoints aren't direct, but they are of seemingly identical strength to the conjunctions and oppositions. (Semi-squares and sesqui-squares to midpoints are quite valid, though you can feel a sharp drop-off in their effect, so I only use them when I need additional information.)

2. I agree that midpoints that involve the personal points (in this case meaning Sun, Moon, MC, Asc) stand out as more important. This is probably for the same reason that Sun and Moon aspects stand out as more important: the solar and lunar psychological functions are more fundamental to the whole of our character. - This should not be taken to mean that these are the only ones we should examine, though.

2A. The above is a basic Ebertin teaching, and it goes back to Uranian astrology. The teaching is that midpoint contacts (or wider "planetary pictures") are most important when a personal point is involved. Cosmobiology (Ebertin school) considers that personal points are Sun, Moon, MC, Asc, but also Moon's Node. Uranian astrology (Witte school) uses these five plus the Vernal Point (which they call the Aries Point). I limit "personal points" to Sun, Moon, MC, Asc.

2B. Whether, as Rob says, the most important midpoint structures are "as important as ajor aspects in influencing the chart," is debatable - draw your own conclusion. I agree with him that they are important, but (using my own chart as an example) there simply are no midpoints that are going to reach the importance of my closest ecliptical aspects in describing my character - nothing in midpoints that approaches, say, my Venus-Pluto 13' square, my Jupiter-Uranus 17' conjunction, my 2° Mars-Neptune square or < 2° Venus trines to Jupiter and Uranus, or my 2° Moon-Mars sextile. These strong midpoint structures are big deals but not that big of a deal.

3. I agree that midpoints of points already in aspect are particularly important. I don't exactly think it's because anything aspecting that midpoint is also in aspect to the other two. Therefore, midpoint structures often help sort out how to read multi-planet aspect combinations. (E.g. from my own chart: With Mars widely opposite Jupiter and Uranus, it's not that my Ma/Ju and Ju/Ur aspects are that unusually important; but, with Neptune square all three of them, it makes Ne = Ma/Ju = Ma/Ur quite important. A grand trine or split-trine often will be resolvable as a midpoint structure.)
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Nabu
Posts: 7251
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:40 pm
Gender:

Re: Excellent Natal Midpoint Rules, by Robert Hand

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:15 am

For comparison to what is more easily viewable as aspects in my chart, here are the direct midpoint structures within 1° in my chart. (Structures with a personal point involved are in bold.) I don't think anything here comes up to the standard of the closest aspects in my chart except maybe Mo = Su/Pl.

Mo = Su/Pl
Ma = Mo/Ve
Sa = Mo/MC
Me = Ve/Ne
Ne = Ma/Ju = Ma/Ur = Ve/As
Pl = Ne/MC - Ur/As = Ju/As

I think these should be taken mundanely and not ecliptically, so shouldn't be taken so seriously:

As = Ve/Ur = Ve/Ju = Ne/Pl

Mundanely, there are no partile direct midpoints to Ascendant or Midheaven.
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Nabu
Posts: 7251
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:40 pm
Gender:

Re: Excellent Natal Midpoint Rules, by Robert Hand

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:03 pm

BTW, you can learn to interpret these from the planet-pair principles here. (You can also look them up in Ebertin, as long as ignore anything with Pluto.)
https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2089#p15282

Thus, my Mo = Su/Pl would be Moon tied to this idea:
Sun-Pluto Authentic self, solitude, eccentric, the exception

My Ma = Mo/Ve is just an expression of the split-trine among them, but is also interpretable as Mars aspecting this idea (similar to thinking Moon-Mars + Venus-Mars):
Moon-Venus Female essence, nurture, love instinct

And so forth.
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

SteveS
Synetic Member
Synetic Member
Posts: 1811
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 5:11 am
Gender:

Re: Excellent Natal Midpoint Rules, by Robert Hand

Post by SteveS » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:46 pm

Thanks Jim for your personal experience with your Natal Midpoints. I followed and studied Hand's Midpoint guidelines with some solid hits with my Natal-- but some--no hits. I will later list the ones which were hits, and try to dig out my old 70,s cassette tapes with Hand's example Natal Midpoints for possible further discussions. I do remember Hand saying that Midpoint structures in our Natal help determine a more refined truer cosmic state for our Natal Planets. Should make for some interesting discussion for possible individual learning curves with member's Natal Midpoints.

SteveS
Synetic Member
Synetic Member
Posts: 1811
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 5:11 am
Gender:

Re: Excellent Natal Midpoint Rules, by Robert Hand

Post by SteveS » Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:21 pm

I thought I would go over some of my Natal Midpoints, rating the strength of them according to Robert Hand’s above guidelines. FWIW, I have seen enough evidence in my own personal life using Ebertin’s ‘Combination of Stellar Influences’ (COSI) with his Midpoint deleinations that we should not ignore Direct Mundo Natal Midpoints with the primary angles of our Natal Chart, no matter where they are located on the mundane wheel. I am 70 years old, so I have plenty of hindsight to examine my life very closely in determining the validity of my Natal Midpoints with COSI. Of course what I perceive as valid with my life may not for someone else life with this astrological exercise. I will use a 1,30 degree orb as recommended by Robert Hand, but much prefer Sidereal Astrology’s guideline: “Partile (1 degree or less) reign supreme.

1: I have only one Direct Mundo Midpoint with my primary Natal Chart angles and it is with my Natal MC. It is Venus/Mars=MC, 0,08. This same Midpoint does not exist in the Eclipto Midpoint with my Natal MC.
This Midpoint reads out with COSI:
Pronounced sensuality, in individual attitude to physical love. The desire to become one with the other in soul and body, the establishment of a sex-relationship (marriage).
I have been married 47 years to the same mate, and our sexual compatibility has gone far for the ‘establishment’ of this 'marriage'.

too be continued

SteveS
Synetic Member
Synetic Member
Posts: 1811
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 5:11 am
Gender:

Re: Excellent Natal Midpoint Rules, by Robert Hand

Post by SteveS » Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:48 am

Robert Hand teaches Direct Midpoints in a Natal are very important. I began my Direct Natal Midpoint analysis with my only Direct Midpoint I have with a primary natal angle (MC), because when I discovered Sidereal Astrology it clearly taught me the vast importance of chart angles.
My next Natal Midpoint I rate as the 2nd (very close to 1st) most important Natal Midpoint in my life is very obvious to me with its life manifestations. ASC/MC=NEPTUNE (1,11-Mundo)!
Some of the prominent European astrologers look upon potential Midpoints involving the ASC/MC midpoint as the most important in the entire chart. Judging by my life, I certainly agree with certain European astrologers about the ASC/MC Midpoint as being very important. In fact, using Jim’s/Bradley’s guidelines for Sidereal Mundane Astrology, I have only seen one Sidereal Mundane Astrology chart which nailed the timing for the breakout of War in Europe in Sept 1939-- which led to World War 11. The following is a link to London’s 1939 Cansolar which is the only Mundane astrological chart I have analyzed out of many which clearly explains to any type of mundane astrologer the timing for the beginning of WW11.
Look at the DIRECT ASC/MC Midpoint of London’s 1939 Cansolar! The partile Moon/Pluto cnj, partile 180 Mars, partile 90 Saturn (T-SQUARE) sits partile on the entire axis of the ASC/MC Midpoint!

https://imgur.com/a/bF0WNAj

So, what has my Direct Natal Midpoint of ASC/MC=NEPTUNE manifested in my Life? When my Mother had be as a baby, she lived/worked next to a Drive-Inn Theater. Beginning as a baby my life became dominated by film/movies. I was virtually born and raised in this Theater environment! My bread and butter for my entire life career has been provided to me by this Neptunian Theater Environment of an illusion/film being projected on a large screen. I absolutely loved this Theater environment, my life became addicted to environment, and I terribly miss this environment in my retired/secluded life, as anyone who is deprived of an addiction. My entire working life has been dependent (Neptune) on the Theater business.

But there is much more to this Neptunian Direct Midpoint of ASC/MC dominating key aspects for my life! All my life I have been led to very high grade psychics, who have always provided me with key information which my mind/eyes could not see or figure out. My natal Mercury is cnj natal Neptune in the sign Virgo! Psychics have always been able to provide me with acute-key details that allowed me to see in detail (Mercury/Virgo) how to figure out what I could not figure out with my ordinary mind/sight. Unless we are dealing with the creative arts, Neptune is a very tricky-foggy energy to deal with in successful measures. It seemed, in my business world I would always reach a critical point where I could not see what I needed to know in order to make the correct business decision in order to literally survive life, without finding myself on the streets living in cardboard box. In fact, one of the most critical times in my life where I was faced with life or death with my business career with Theaters, came when I consulted a psychic with thoughts my business career was over—finished! The psychic told me if I consulted the bankrupt attorney which was handling the bankruptcy of a corporation which was employing my services, I would be able to buy for a song a closed- down Theater and reopen it which would become very successful. Psychics have always been able to tell me critical details which has allowed me to react in a successful way by “seeing” through Neptune’s eternal ‘fog bank’ which at times surrounds us in very confusing moments in our lives. The sight of astrology at times allows us to see things which are not visible to a non-astrologer. In fact, many astrologers believe Neptune is prominently active in Natal Charts of astrologers.

There has been another huge Neptunian factor in my life, and that is the fact in the late 60’s, I experimented with every known psychedelic drug known at this time in the USA, a highly Neptunian life trait explained by my ASC/MC=Neptune Direct Midpoint—but this is entirely another story.

too be continued with other direct natal midpoints.

SteveS
Synetic Member
Synetic Member
Posts: 1811
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 5:11 am
Gender:

Re: Excellent Natal Midpoint Rules, by Robert Hand

Post by SteveS » Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:58 am

*Important addition to this thread:
Since I have started this thread, Jim has pointed something out to me about the position of my Natal Neptune which I never fully realized from a Sidereal Astrology standpoint. My Natal Neptune falls partile cnj my Natal South Point, a 90 degree point to the Vertex. Up to this point in my life, I have always related very important Neptunian things in my life as manifesting with my Neptune falling 1,11 cnj the ASC/MC, based primarily on a statement by Robert Hand, which as far as I know was originated in the early German Schools about Midpoints. Robert Hand states about the ASC/MC on page 179 of his book ‘Horoscope Symbols’:
A very important point in the horoscope…
This ‘important point in the horoscope’ (ASC/MC) contradicts the teachings of Sidereal Astrology which teaches this ASC/MC is the weakest point in a Horoscope. So, we have a contradiction here between two astrological schools of thought.
But, Jim and his Sidereal Astrology teachings from the late 70’s point out something else very important to me about the ecliptical position of my Natal Neptune, which helps me better understand this contradiction with the ASC/MC. Jim states:
Planets conjunct, opposite, or square the Vertex are highly accented, but any actual manifestations seem to be unconsciously motivated. It is this component of unconsciousness which gives the “fated” or “predestined” quality which other writers have associated with Vertex sponsored occurrences.
My Natal Neptune falls partile square my Natal Vertex, labeled the South Point (SP), and very important Neptunian things in my life have manifested, the most important Neptunian event in my life being I was born as a baby living in a house next to a Drive-Inn Movie Theater. Talk about being “fated”—it don’t get more “fated” than being born into something (Movie Theater business environment) which becomes a most dominating influence in your entire life, and definitely was an 'unconscious motivated' influence in my life. :)
Last edited by SteveS on Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

James Condor
Constellation Member
Constellation Member
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 10:47 am
Gender:

Re: Excellent Natal Midpoint Rules, by Robert Hand

Post by James Condor » Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:12 am

Could you please do a midpoint of my chart?

SteveS
Synetic Member
Synetic Member
Posts: 1811
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 5:11 am
Gender:

Re: Excellent Natal Midpoint Rules, by Robert Hand

Post by SteveS » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:17 am

James asked:
Could you please do a midpoint of my chart?
James,
With my understanding of Midpoints from Robert Hand’s guidelines, AND combined with a Siderealist who did a-lot of work with Midpoints (much more than me), without a doubt, the most important Midpoint in your entire Natal Chart is the Mundo Direct Midpoint of Moon/Mars=MC. Do I remember correctly you have experienced an environment of “quarrels” in your work place during your career?
Ebertin in his book on Midpoints writes about the:
“Negative Probable Manifestations” of the combo Moon/Mars:
The tendency to become involved in quarrels, the demonstration of intolerance, marital differences.

I will get back with you later on the rest of your Direct Midpoints.

User avatar
Jupiter Sets at Dawn
Irish
Irish
Posts: 2412
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: Excellent Natal Midpoint Rules, by Robert Hand

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:06 am

On astro.com on the Free or Extended Chart Drawing page, you can choose (or enter) birth data, and choose the chart type (natal, solar, progressed, etc.) and chart drawing style (Web Default style, Astrodienst style, etc).
Under chart drawing style in the drop down box, choose Ebertin style (w. midpoints).
This will get you an odd looking chart (don't ask me!) with the usual options for PDF Drawing( for subscribers) and PDF additional tables. Click on the additional tables and viola!
A PDF (you can print out) with the distances the planets were from the earth when you were born, a table with your midpoint structures and aspects, another table with your midpoints in zodiacial order, and your midpoints in 90° order.

I'm pretty sure if you got your data entered correctly and chose the Fagan-Bradley ayanamsa, these will be correct. Steve can help you interpret them.

User avatar
Jim Eshelman
Nabu
Posts: 7251
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 12:40 pm
Gender:

Re: Excellent Natal Midpoint Rules, by Robert Hand

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:34 am

James Condor wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:12 am
Could you please do a midpoint of my chart?
Here are the midpoint structures I consider most important in your chart. Those with unusual importance are bolded - these are involve a luminary or angle and include nearly all your 90° series midpoints within 1°!

Sa = Mo/Ne = Mo/Ju = Mo/Me
Ve = Su/Pl
Ne = Su/Ve = Su/Ur = Me/Ju
Mo = Su/Ur = Me/Ne
Me = Su/Ur = Su/Ve
Angles = Mo/Ma

(I list this as "Angles" rather than MC vs. Asc because MC and Asc are always 90°00' apart in the mundoscope. Any midpoint that hits one also hits the other. Since Moon and Mars are foreground, one is even more inclined to see them within 0°07' of average angularity to the horizon, as to read it as their midpoint being 0°07' from MC-IC. It's all the same, ultimately.)
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

James Condor
Constellation Member
Constellation Member
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 10:47 am
Gender:

Re: Excellent Natal Midpoint Rules, by Robert Hand

Post by James Condor » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:57 pm

Thank you guys. I know not what any of this means yet.

SteveS
Synetic Member
Synetic Member
Posts: 1811
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 5:11 am
Gender:

Re: Excellent Natal Midpoint Rules, by Robert Hand

Post by SteveS » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:30 pm

James wrote:
I know not what any of this means yet.
It's a method to probe deeper into the natal chart to help understand certain midpoint aspects that may explain certain specific manifestations about one's life which may not be explained by a Sidereal Astrology analysis, or it can be a method to reinforce a certain aspect in your natal chart explained by the core principles of Sidereal Astrology. For example: In your Natal Chart your Natal Mars is the most angular planet, Mundo 4,22 cnj Dsc. Using a midpoint analysis with Hand's method, your Midpoint of Moon/Mars is wired in big time to your primary natal chart angles. This offers another method to isolate a very pronounced (angular) Mars theme in your life, blended in with the rest of your natal chart aspects. It is an interesting method for Natal Chart analysis, particularly when an important trait of a life cannot be explained by Sidereal Astrology. Most of the time, Sidereal Astrology will explain the main traits of one's life traits.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest