Veronica

Feel free to post your full birthdata & open a discussion on your own chart. Tell us what you've learned from it, ask questions, etc.
Veronica
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Re: Veronica

Post by Veronica » Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:02 am

btw....

I know there is not much stock in Martian returns, Michael Valentine aside lol...

but, whilst painting through my grief this fall I was trying to paint pictures of space so I was doing research into images and how space photography works... and anyhoo...

I learned that our Solar system started out with only the sun mercury mars and earth, the solid planets with hard surfaces. It wasnt till much much later that the Asteroid belt formed and the gases sorted themselves out into our giant outer planets, which are actually nebulous clouds...Elon cannot land a damn thing on Jupiter as it has no ground!!

So, it just seems solid that Mars returns do have weight.

and even though I'm under this transit I'm not looking for a fight. I realize that my Martian nature often makes me seem like I'm looking to fight, and be annoying, but I just want to say out loud that I trust you all here really understand and I deeply thank you for your time.

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RIP

Post by Veronica » Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:47 am

This Saturday at an unconfirmed time, my Uncle died. My maternal grandmother had 3 children and they all have died now.

This is all such a weird unfolding, these past few months..... I have so much I would like to share about how it, yet it feels like trying to explain the unfolding of the petals of a rosebud, to articulate the delicate beauty of each petal, each day...

I have never known my Uncles birth data except that he was born in London almost 100 years ago, and he relocated here in Rochester back in the 50s and then moved to Virginia after his sisters died in 1996.

I remember growing up being in love with him, and being jealous of his perfect family and wishing I could be his daughter. He had such a beautiful loud laugh and a twinkle in his eye. We loved playing games together, he had a million board games and puzzles that we would spend weekends devouring. I spent lots of time at his house with extended weekend and vacations, such a nice break from the " commotion " of my own home. His daughter was born Oct 4 1968, so she is my only cousin semi close to my age.
She is a real gem, and I dont talk about my relationship to her because she is so very very special to me. My school friends were mostly cruel and bullish towards her, which ended those relationships.

This relationship was extremely formative for me. I want to say that I was shocked when two weeks ago as he got Covid I learned his birthday, not even looking at any charts........but I wasnt. It figures is exactly the thought I had, and astrologically it does figure exactly that he was born July 30, 1929.

The past 10 years we have been living the long goodbye with him as he has complete dementia and alzheimers and has no memories. He's dancing now, again with everyone he loves.

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Re: Veronica

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:44 am

I'm sorry V. You're in my thoughts.

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Re: Veronica

Post by Veronica » Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:25 pm

Jupiter Sets at Dawn wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:44 am
I'm sorry V. You're in my thoughts.
Thank You.
Your words always and all ways touch my soul.
Jim's most excellent run down on synastry aspects the other day opened my eyes to who I become when I am gifted with aspects from relationships.
Thank you Jim
Thank you Danica
Thank you Steve
Thank you Mike, and Mike
Thank you Flo
Thank you Lance
Thank you Takamba
and Thank you everyone in the whole entire world and galaxy and everywhere
for the priceless gifts your unique aspects bring to my chart and the chart of my family.
I will do my best to bring them to the highest accord.
I feel like the little drummer boy.....

I will sing praise and raise a toast lo you all.

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Re: Veronica

Post by Danica » Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:57 am

Takamba - now, that's a name I haven't seen in quite a while!
--- as far as I remember, they never shared their birth data (at least not openly, and not with me); it would be interesting (and certainly educative!) to learn it, if the same person happens to be around under another name and is willing to communicate this info :D
Amate Se Mutuo Cum Corda Ardentia

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Re: Veronica

Post by Veronica » Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:35 am

Takamba...my brother loved that song.

I asked him once, he never said and I didnt press it.

He helped me once focus my eyes so I could see those hidden images in "Magic Eye" books, and that's when I saw the unicorn in my backyard. Karen kinda had a big crush on him in a way.

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Re: Veronica

Post by Veronica » Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:05 pm

Karen thought Takamba was her Daniel.

She is dancing with Him under the mistletoe.
I often thought Takamba's Saturn was conjunct my MC and his Uranus conjuct my Pluto.

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Jupiter transiting my Sun

Post by Veronica » Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:07 pm

I have been doing some reflection on the times in my past that Jupiter transited my Sun, as it's doing now.

It's such a beautiful aspect in so many countless ways.
We are so blessed when that wave comes.

I would have never ever guessed I would be where I am today, considering what I had been doing at that time. It most certainly was not the course I thought I was on.

In my reflecting I reread my letters to God that I have earnestly tried keeping ever since I learned to write. A confident little 4year old saying hi to god, every day. It is amazing that The Good Lords ear never fell off. I dont open my heart to people mostly, it's like a waterfall, but I always new that God could take my gushing.
and He has, and She has, what ever that they/we/us are.

Even though by cultures definition of success, I am not successful at all, I feel successful. I feel like there is this beautiful ethereal crown of aspects that I have been gifted by kind loving generous tolerant and compassionate souls who are entangled and interwoven into my life like a magic coat of armor.

I am so excited to see where I am the next come around!
Thank you Jim and Danica especially, as you two have known me since my last past and have been nothing but a source of strength and empowerment and compassion and deep friendship, thanks to you all for being you.
I like you, just the way you are, like my hero would say.

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Re: Veronica

Post by Veronica » Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:44 am

ugh,
so there are a lot of things I want to talk about...
but then again I dont...
when you give voice to things it seems to make them more real, more sound...
but if you dont talk about things then how can we ever hope to understand each other and this world.

I had somethings really hit in my face yesterday about myself and my romantic relationships, something very mean and hurtful that I was unaware of on my behalf that I was doing. Something that if the shoe had been on my foot...I'd be up in arms about...and legally rightfully so.

I had mentioned previously that my most beloved Uncle had just died. As a small child growing up in an alcoholic and violent dysfunctional home, I saw my Uncle and his perfect little nuclear family as the ideal. I was jealous of the open love and unity and strength and purpose and singlemindness of my Uncle and His Wife. I adored how my Uncle spoke with pet names lovingly speaking to his wife and children. They really seemed to be the ideal family, and according to the news I got from my dad...well we were the opposite to say it nicely.
The thing that really touched me though, the thing that I observed and wanted, needed, was the synastry my Uncle and Aunt had together. They not only dropped with love and adoration for only each other, they were as one, one mind, one heart, one complete enraptured soul. Or so it seemed from my point of view. I had never seen, still to this day, two souls so in love. It was almost as if they had given up thier individuality in a way, put aside the self and the ego, and moved in complete tandem as one, mind, heart and soul.

It must have been devastating when my Uncle got sick and forgot everything, as that left my beloved Aunt without her ballast, as my cousin said it seemed. I completely feel that. Having the most beautiful love and the other person not remembering that they loved you and were a part of something so beautiful.

The unfolding of life is so mysterious, I would look each night for the first star so I could wish for a love like theirs. silly child wishing on the Loneliest Star in the sky. Very appropriate that I would be wishing on the same star that my MC points to, ngc7293, The Eye of God.

My Aunts birthdata for those interested....Jan 14, 1942 Weeds Virginia. Since we are unsure her birth time I saw her sun on the cusp of Saggitarius/Capricorn and wondered how that placement would fluctuate over the 24hours of the birthdate. Since my Uncle is a Cancer, I am going to say based on there relationship and her overall character that she is not a Saggitarius but a Capricorn, thus thier suns are in polar opposite signs.

So yesterday, when I drew up my Aunts chart for the very first time....after noting her Sun, drew up the synastry of my Aunt and Uncle.

and if you know me, you know I cried when I saw her Mercury opposite his Sun/mercury conjunction. (Gods! they loved talking and laughing together!!).

which brings me back to my relationships in my past that never worked....none of the people I had ever met did I have that type of aspect with. I wanted, I needed open honest clear communication, and validation of an "us". Even in my marriage there was never an us, we. None until I reconnected with Craig in 2013.
Craig and I have a similar aspect.

The thing is, that it is my Sun on Craig's Mercury.

I feel horrible.
I feel like an abuser, a stalker, an unwanted suitor by constantly and continually reaching out to Craig, and trying to reconnect with him. I always felt my reaching out came from a place of love and concern and wanting the very best for him, from my side that was always my intention and always my hope that he too wanted the same for me, and that he too really did want to be with me.

I feel now though that my affection was received not in the manner it given, and that Craig truly didnt care about me like I thought and that he was only being kind to me because he was terrified of what I might do as revenge or out of despair or desperation.

On Thursday Dec 9 (6:30ish)I asked Craig, point blank if he wanted to be with me, he said no. I asked him if I should move on and leave him alone and he said yes.

As much as it pains me, Jim you might legally be able to shed light, I see now that because Craig has now specifically said, no that he is not interested, that by me contacting him in anyway constitutes willful harassment, stalking and probably some other misdemeanors. He said no.
If I was in his position as woman and a man kept contacting me, I would be advised to get an order of protection against....

I never meant to be a bully or controlling or manipulative or mean in anyway to him and I am disappointed in myself for not being able to see things from his side. He has every right to be with someone who loves and encourages him and holds him the way he needs and all that, and I am glad that he has that.
I too have every right to get my needs met though, and in this last conversation with him he finally did say I should leave him alone. I appreciate his honesty and candor in telling me he doesnt want to be with me, it must have been very hard for him, fearing I would break windows I suppose.

I truly am not interested in meeting or dating or talking to anyone. I'm kinda at that disgusted with my past behaviors, shocked that I never saw my actions as a bully and mortified that I possibly have mentally abused him, all the while feeling on top of the world love struck dumb with him.

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Re: Veronica

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:57 am

Well, yes, of course if someone says, "Leave me alone and I mean it," and you don't leave them alone, then they can take further steps. How this comes out depends on a judge's judgement, so the outcome isn't certain. In your case, I think an important fact is that you aren't really a threat. You're not a harmful person. If he considers you a pest or an unwanted memory, that still isn't a crime.

I'm not sure the threat of an order is what's bothering you. (I didn't really follow that transition in your story.) I think other emotions your uncle are stirred up and that threatening, painful new lunar return is emotionally toxic, so you're feeling and revisiting situations where you had a lot of fear.
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Re: Veronica

Post by mikestar13 » Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:05 am

Veronica, I know you are hurting like hell right now. Focusing on taking care of yourself and letting yourself heal is exactly the right thing. Part of the healing is forgiveness. There are four phases (they can happen concurrently or in any order) in degree of difficulty: 1. Forgiving Craig for every wrong he's done to you. This is cruel hard, but the easiest of the steps for most of us. 2. Forgiving Craig for every wrong you've done him. It may be deeply buried in your unconscious, but on some level you feel justified in your wrongs by his conduct or character. This must also be let go of. This step is considerably harder. I'm in no way singling you out here -- this is universally true of humans and very offer overlooked. 3. Forgiving God (whatever you conceive He/She/It/Them to be) for not unfolding the universe as you needed/wished. This is harder yet. God has no need whatsoever to receive your forgiveness: it is a very necessary part of your healing to give it. 4. The most important and excruciatingly difficult: forgiving yourself. No one does any of the steps perfectly, but the degree of healing and peace they bring is proportionate to the degree of success you achieve. May the stars and the God who made the grant you healing, and all the peace, joy, and above all love that you need.
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Re: Veronica

Post by Veronica » Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:18 am

Jim,
after reading your response I thought about what I might be afraid of, and it feels like this...
When Craig dies and gets to review his life with God, and he comes to the "Veronica " part, and he tells God how horrible it was having my sun blast him right in his Mercurcy and how bad that really must hurt and be blinding, I dont want God hearing ugly things like that about anybody but to hear it about me....
I dont want God mad at me.
at all. about anything.

It is so hard living sometimes knowing that God is watching, that god listens, god makes wishes come true. its especially hard when you in a society that has forgotten God and His Love and forgot He is Always and Allways present.

Mike,
thank you for your kindness.
yes I am hurting that we live in world that doesnt feel God and denies Him and Themselves.
there is nothing to forgive though.
I was angry once with god for watch a bad thing happen in my life. As we talked about it though, I came to see that when the bad things happened to me, it was my choice, at those moments to disentangle if you will from my relationship to God, to separate from that synastry and composite chart that I have with Diety/Time/God/Goddess and get involved with others without bringing God into the equation.
So it is more a case of asking God to forgive me for forgetting Him.

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Re: Veronica

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:41 am

Veronica wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:18 am
When Craig dies and gets to review his life with God, and he comes to the "Veronica " part, and he tells God how horrible it was having my sun blast him right in his Mercurcy and how bad that really must hurt and be blinding,
It doesn't work that way. First of all, besides stirring communication in general, Sun's main impact on Mercury is to ensure Mercury has a voice, to create a pathway for Mercury's creative expression. No blasting :) though I suppose (hard to imagine, but I suppose) that some people would be uncomfortable with this.
I dont want God hearing ugly things like that about anybody but to hear it about me....
I dont want God mad at me. at all. about anything.
It doesn't happen that way. Love doesn't get mad at you.

Besides (to put it in more earthly terms), Craig's confession is about Craig, never really about you.

Or to put it in more conventional religious terms: God doesn't need tattletales. He knows if you've been bad or good.

The bigger issue, I think (emphasized by Mike) is how you feel about these interactions and whether you feel you have anything about it you have to hold onto. (Hint: Guilt is one of the coolest, sneakiest things we have to hold onto about somebody when we don't want to finish letting go and have run out of other things to hold onto.)
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Re: Veronica

Post by Veronica » Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:45 pm

Thank you for all that Jim.
I do hear what you are saying about God and Love and confession and tattle tales.

I have been reflecting on my feelings of letting him go. not just him but Karen and Mike and dad, and events ect. I've been doing a lot of that this whole year, letting go 90% of my possessions too.

I dont like saying things like this outloud, but I'm okay with it all going. Im not hurt. I'm not sad. I tried. I know that with each breathe and minute of my life I really really tried to make the best choices, the higher choice even when others hit low. I did what I thought was right and good action. I acted from Love. I feel like I could die this minute and feel wonderful about all parts of my life, that I have nothing to be ashamed of, that I did do my best and that I accomplished my purpose in life. I really do, and that's a terrifying feeling, that you've done all you could and your work is done.
It makes you acutely appreciate each breathe you take as a complete bonus to life, each minute a golden egg of possibilities.

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Re: Veronica

Post by Veronica » Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:55 pm

I wanted to clarify what I said above about how I feel I completed my life purpose......
I needed, all my life, to feel from someone "other" that no matter what....they loved me.
I never felt assured 100% that someone loved me.
but then I got pregnant, and felt that starlight bath and went through pregnancy....and almost died delivering him.
it's that venus/pluto...all or nothing feeling, and Orion I know loves me, but more then that feeling of unquestionable love I discovered that what I was really needing was to be loved by someone who really loved themselves, who was self confident and self assured...and our culture really makes it hard for people to have healthy self esteem, and authentic self expression.
Orion is different and I've worried about him since before he was born. it's all those planets in Capricorn....Eric didnt like his Libra moon, so gentle and beautiful. I was so worried that Orion who grow up and be another person who played games with hearts, who abused. self absorbed egoic following the crowd, suppressing his nature....
I did everything and the kitchen sink to not raise a criminal, a jerk a burden to society.
Well he is going to 21 in a few days and he is a wonderful human being, with a lot of great gifts and joy and he likes crazy clothes and weird hair and wears nail polish and stands up for himself and others.
so when I say I feel like I could die and my work is done, its because I see that my son is a man now and I dont need to worry if he will be ok like I have been terrified of for years.
he will be ok,
and no Steve, you asked once if I ever talked astrology with him, no I dont because he doesnt need it. He's got something all his own.
my purpose in life is Love, and I'm sure that God will find a good use for me, there are so many people in the world with great projects and work going on that do need someone just like me. I was never happier with any friend or lover ever then I was with Craig, but I have to respect his feelings and desires. We will get to the same place eventually, so it's all good, I just really liked walking home with him.

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Re: Veronica

Post by mikestar13 » Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:45 pm

Code: Select all

------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              Cosmic State                              
Mo Sc- F | Mo Sc-
         | co Ne 00°56'   co Ju 02°45'   op Sa 02°28'M  sq Su 02°39'   
         | sx Pl 02°58'   
Su Aq- F | Su Aq-
         | oc Ve 00°13'   sx Se 01°55'   sq Ma 02°05'M  sq Mo 02°39'   
         | sq Ne 03°35'   oc Ur 01°18'   sq Ju 05°25'   
Me Cp  B | sq Sa 00°23'   sx Ma 00°21'   sq Er 01°39'M  sq Se 02°47'M  
         | tr Ur 03°55'   
Ve Sg    | Mo Sc-
         | oc Su 00°13'   sq Ur 01°31'   tr Sa 02°01'   sq Er 02°45'   
Ma Sc+ F | Mo Sc+
         | sx Me 00°21'   oc Se 00°21'   sq Su 02°05'M  sx Ur 03°34'   
         | tr Er 04°47'   
Ju Sc  F | co Ne 00°28'M  co Mo 02°45'   sq Su 05°25'   sx Pl 05°43'   
         | tr Er 07°04'   
Sa Ar- B | sq Me 00°23'   co Se 00°54'M  co Er 02°02'M  tr Ve 02°01'   
         | op Mo 02°28'M  
Ur Vi  B | Su Aq+
         | op Er 01°14'   sq Ve 01°31'   sx Ma 03°34'   oc Su 01°18'   
         | tr Me 03°55'   
Ne Sc  F | co Ju 00°28'M  co Mo 00°56'   sq Su 03°35'   sx Pl 03°54'   
Pl Vi  F | sx Mo 02°58'   sx Ne 03°54'   sx Ju 05°43'   
Er Pi  B | op Ur 01°14'   co Se 01°08'M  sq Me 01°39'M  co Sa 02°02'M  
         | sq Ve 02°45'   tr Ma 04°47'   tr Ju 07°04'   
Se Ar  B | co Sa 00°54'M  oc Ma 00°21'   co Er 01°08'M  sx Su 01°55'   
         | sq Me 02°47'M  
Veronica, I felt lead to post your cosmic state report (not including midpoints yet, they will add some interesting nuances no doubt). I particularly notice your rather problematic Venus placement and I understand something I didn't understand before. While you are I are very different people overall, as I've gotten to know you and your struggles (particularly in the Venus realm), I've felt we are in some way kindred spirits and now I see why. Love has been problematic for me as well. We both have that Venus-Eris connection "Love, thy name is Chaos" yet also Sun-Venus "love isn't what I do, it's what I am". You have known tragedy aplenty and you've know triumph: your son Orion. May the Love at the Heart of the Universe bless you always, star sister.
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Re: Veronica

Post by SteveS » Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:03 am

V wrote:
We will get to the same place eventually, so it's all good...
Indeed V, you are remarkable where through all your trying times--you still realize the Big Picture.

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Re: Veronica

Post by Veronica » Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:58 am

I have found in my life Steven that you just cant ever loose sight of that Bigger Picture. I am thankful that I have a bigger picture of my little existence, it is like a rock that I can lay back on and just surrender to. I feel that at our core all humanity must have sense of this bigger picture, yet I also feel that most people dont carry pictures in their wallet anymore of people they love...that too many people have never seen a bigger picture at all

No Matter how hard things in life seem, if you STOP and back up, and back up, and back up, when things are getting all emotional and convoluted, then in that pause you can catch your breath and get your heart rate under control, and relax and just be in the moment.

I had a dream a while back that is all about a Bigger picture.

In my dream I had found out when the Goddess's birthday was!! Karen, being newly crossed into the Celestial Heavens had been given a handbook on life after death, and page one was all about the Goddess and when She was born and how all life after death circulates around Her activities. (So so sorry Mr. Tim Burton for that appropriation by my subconscious). In an innocent conversation with Karen about her knew situation being dead she accidently told me the Bday,

I was so excited with this information, and I wanted to do something especially loving for Goddess to let her know how I feel.
I had it in my mind that I was going to take a picture of all of Her children everywhere and give it to Her for a surprise present. I flew everywhere telling people that we were getting together for a picture, to get a nice shirt, and let's get this shot!

But mostly no one was listening, they were busy, some I found doing horrible horrible things, and I tried to get them to stop so they wouldn't be black and blue in the picture, and well.....the organization was a disaster, but I finished my rounds around the Earth and headed up into space, surfing currents and hopping comets and hop skip and jumping and flying out out out and up up up.

I came to a great point where I could get the whole Family in frame and I turned around to take the picture, and people were still fighting and hurting, So I yelled.......SMILE.....and some would brighten up, so i yelled smile again and more of my siblings heard me and smiled but most were still just enraptured in thier lives and affairs. I tried to get Michael to stop pulling Karens hair, one last time.......and after what seemed like way to long, I just said screw it, we are all here.

I took the shot.

I took lots actually as I then descended back to Earth. I had no limit on space to store my data, so why not.

Yet as I hovered out there in space, looking at my Galaxy, Our Galaxy, filled with all the Children of the Goddess, looking at my family and awestruck dumb blind of how utterly beautiful and mesmerizing and complete and unique and lovable and just wonderful to the max the Whole is, I realized that this beautiful picture, this family of every single organism, would not be beautiful if everyone was the same, if everyone was doing the same thing, if everyone had turned and smiled and shone at the same time. no, it was because some of us are very very dark, and others green, and some pink and huge or small and all the characteristics that each one of us brings to life, it was the intermixing and contrasts and blending and chaos of all of us that makes the image of our galaxy so so beautiful. our diversity and differences, not our commonality give dimension and life itself.

I was so pleased with my picture and my new perspective of my relations. I eagerly waited for the day, and then, when Her Birthday arrived I could hardly wait till She came to kiss me GoodNight like She does every night. She stroked my hair and just before She laid Her kiss I said I have some thing for you, and I pulled out Our picture and I said Happy Birthday Mommy from All of Us. She looked at the picture and then looked at me and said "You Took this for me?" and I smiled and said yea, howd you know I took it.? She laughed and said Your the only one not in the picture silly who else could have taken it!

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Re: Veronica

Post by Veronica » Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:11 am

mikestar13 wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:45 pm

Code: Select all

------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              Cosmic State                              
Mo Sc- F | Mo Sc-
         | co Ne 00°56'   co Ju 02°45'   op Sa 02°28'M  sq Su 02°39'   
         | sx Pl 02°58'   
Su Aq- F | Su Aq-
         | oc Ve 00°13'   sx Se 01°55'   sq Ma 02°05'M  sq Mo 02°39'   
         | sq Ne 03°35'   oc Ur 01°18'   sq Ju 05°25'   
Me Cp  B | sq Sa 00°23'   sx Ma 00°21'   sq Er 01°39'M  sq Se 02°47'M  
         | tr Ur 03°55'   
Ve Sg    | Mo Sc-
         | oc Su 00°13'   sq Ur 01°31'   tr Sa 02°01'   sq Er 02°45'   
Ma Sc+ F | Mo Sc+
         | sx Me 00°21'   oc Se 00°21'   sq Su 02°05'M  sx Ur 03°34'   
         | tr Er 04°47'   
Ju Sc  F | co Ne 00°28'M  co Mo 02°45'   sq Su 05°25'   sx Pl 05°43'   
         | tr Er 07°04'   
Sa Ar- B | sq Me 00°23'   co Se 00°54'M  co Er 02°02'M  tr Ve 02°01'   
         | op Mo 02°28'M  
Ur Vi  B | Su Aq+
         | op Er 01°14'   sq Ve 01°31'   sx Ma 03°34'   oc Su 01°18'   
         | tr Me 03°55'   
Ne Sc  F | co Ju 00°28'M  co Mo 00°56'   sq Su 03°35'   sx Pl 03°54'   
Pl Vi  F | sx Mo 02°58'   sx Ne 03°54'   sx Ju 05°43'   
Er Pi  B | op Ur 01°14'   co Se 01°08'M  sq Me 01°39'M  co Sa 02°02'M  
         | sq Ve 02°45'   tr Ma 04°47'   tr Ju 07°04'   
Se Ar  B | co Sa 00°54'M  oc Ma 00°21'   co Er 01°08'M  sx Su 01°55'   
         | sq Me 02°47'M  
Veronica, I felt lead to post your cosmic state report (not including midpoints yet, they will add some interesting nuances no doubt). I particularly notice your rather problematic Venus placement and I understand something I didn't understand before. While you are I are very different people overall, as I've gotten to know you and your struggles (particularly in the Venus realm), I've felt we are in some way kindred spirits and now I see why. Love has been problematic for me as well. We both have that Venus-Eris connection "Love, thy name is Chaos" yet also Sun-Venus "love isn't what I do, it's what I am". You have known tragedy aplenty and you've know triumph: your son Orion. May the Love at the Heart of the Universe bless you always, star sister.
Thank you for all of this Mike. Thanking you for taking the time to draw up and share my cosmic state but mostly thank you for trying to better understand me.
I see that I have mundane Mars Sun square that had never been captured before in any other chart and I feel that is correct, I always felt somehow that my Mars was aspecting my sun, giving me a source of self confidence.

I have a very exciting job interview at a company I have always admired and supported at 10 so I have to leave now, but I wanted to thank you Star Brother. Thank you for opening up and talking about your feelings and thoughts, especially the hard mean and ugly stuff, and letting us all try to understand you better. That's a priceless gift.

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Re: Veronica

Post by Veronica » Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:09 pm

I wanted to share that I got called back for the job at 12:48 pm that same day! I had applied 2 times before to work there, over the years, and 3rd time was the charm.

Its " just" a cashier job for minimum wage, with 9.5 hour days, but I think it's a good fit. Lots of great co workers and the customers are all very nice.

I'm gonna admit that I really am very devastated and depressed about the whole Craig thing. Just break down sobbing, thinking really spiralling into horrible self hurting thoughts, feeling like I'll never have someone to hold or even just talk And listen too. This is very toxic Lunar return and it's taking a lot of strength to wipe away my tears and just function.

I thought about trying to date or talk to people on an app, but that just made me feel worse. I haven't been hugged or kissed or touched or anything loving from anyone in so long, and I'm just terrified I'm never going to have a romantic relationship again. It hurts and is confusing and I feel like everything I ever did relationship wise was just wrong.

I have a demi lunar soon and I'm hoping that brings in some loving kindness and affection, even if it's just the stray cat coming to visit.

I only have a few weeks till my solar return and I really need to find a healthy out let for those strong aspects. A mars venus conjunction when you have no lover is going to really be another sad year like last years.

I hate to say this but so many people say that I need to just go out and boink anyone, so that my body isnt bonded to Craig anymore, and I dont think I can. I think if a man tried to kiss me I'd just fall to pieces in tears.

I am so weird and unusual and maybe everyone is right, I'm just a whole lotta stuff that men couldnt care less about for the most part and too high maintenance and socially awkward. I'm just so lonely sometimes for human companionship, and a part of me thinks its unhealthy for my children to see me so alone all the time.

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Re: Veronica

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:37 pm

Someone, maybe you, certainly the people who are telling to just go out and boink someone, are confusing sex with affection. Maybe if you thought a bit about what it is you actually want, you'd have better luck finding it. You're perfectly capable of achieving a sexual release all on your own, I'm sure.

Another part of this is menopause and misdirecting it's power in your life.

Every time you think of Craig, go wash the kitchen floor. Or something similar. A little hard work instead and break the connection in your mind. You don't have to think about him. So don't. I know, it's hard, but that's no excuse.

If you want physical affection, volunteer to work with downs children. You'll get all the touching and hugging and so on you could possibly want.

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Re: Veronica

Post by Danica » Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:35 am

Veronica wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:09 pm

I am so weird and unusual and maybe everyone is right, I'm just a whole lotta stuff that men couldnt care less about for the most part and too high maintenance and socially awkward. I'm just so lonely sometimes for human companionship, and a part of me thinks its unhealthy for my children to see me so alone all the time.
Your natal says that you are both extremely sensitive and refined (the aspects) and a dignified, royal person (the angularity) - in my opinion, any man who is not treating you accordingly, verily as a queen, while them themselves being also on-par with that, is plainly put: not worth your company in the partnering sense.
Amate Se Mutuo Cum Corda Ardentia

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Re: Veronica

Post by mikestar13 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:33 am

Veronica, ignore well-meaning (let's charitably assume it was well-meaning) advice from people who don't understand. If you needed to go boink someone, you are self-aware enough you'd know it. It may be some day you are healed enough, the stars will bring you a new relationship. Until then, concentrate on loving yourself and Orion. Healing will come in its own time.
Time matters

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Re: Veronica

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:40 am

You know this is mourning, right? You're mourning for several people who were really important to you, and you are mourning your relationship with Craig, and mourning takes time. You don't think about it and come to a resolution and it's over.
It's not over.
Mourning for one person or one relationship takes at least a month for every year you were in that relationship.
Even if it was a one sided relationship like the one with Craig. It was just as real to you, and you are mourning that. And mourning your sister and your brother, and all at once so it's going to take even longer because it's all mixed up together.

So remind yourself that's what you are doing. Mourning. And focus on that.

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Re: Veronica

Post by Veronica » Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:53 am

Thank you for those words Jupiter, Danica and Mike.

I hear what your saying and it deeply resonates with my feelings.

I'm grieving, for many and thank you Jupiter for that reminder that I'm a human being going through real loss and that I need to mourn and grieve and not bury my emotions and to give myself time.

I am feeling better today. Things, thoughts, feelings, memories come in waves and can overwhelm me. These triggers really get me so sad about never talking to Karen ect et al....and With Transiting Juputer squaring my moon for my Lunars it just makes me feel like an outa control sprinkler system that just gushes out at strange and inappropriate times.
Thank you for your kindnesses and understanding.

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Re: Veronica

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:04 am

I think there is a period, after an important relationship is over, when the following song is entirely true. That usually passes... but this is a good example of what it passes through.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho3yoTd6qk0
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Re: Veronica

Post by mikestar13 » Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:44 pm

Veronica, I must warn you from experience: when the grief is deep enough, it never ends. I have grieved my son David's death (see viewtopic.php?f=10&t=690&p=9760&hilit=autism#p9760) for near a dozen years--which is longer than he was alive. As time wears, I'm able to function in spite of it more and more, but it never goes away--and the last teardrop won't fall until David greets me at the gates of heaven. You grief may not be as unconsolable as mine--but if it is, there is no shame in that. You will heal and learn and grow and you will know peace and joy. Trust me, I've walked that path. May the stars and the God who made them shine on you.
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Re: Veronica

Post by SteveS » Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:13 pm

I ditto Mike's last post. My tragic loss of my sister's death still haunts me at times, it was she who taught me so many things about love. We all must learn to live with tragic things in our life, its part of living.

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Re: Veronica

Post by Veronica » Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:46 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:04 am
I think there is a period, after an important relationship is over, when the following song is entirely true. That usually passes... but this is a good example of what it passes through.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho3yoTd6qk0
Yes, that's perfect.
Thank you for sharing it, I had never heard it.
so, there I was at the laundry mat sobbing for everybody and anybody to see, not caring how ugly crying makes you look to other people, I felt better when the song was over, even though in the song they kissed at the end.
I have to accept that I did my best, for 8 years, to tell and show Craig that I love him, but that he has his own needs and has every right to do what he can to meet them and that whatever it is she does for his chart in synastry to meet those needs as a friend I should be happy for them both that they have each other.
The woman he has been with since we broke up is a girl from my town who I've known since 7th grade. Ironically Craig is the 4th close friend of mine that she started dating. There were 3 other times that I was close (not intimate but close friends) friends with a guy and then she dated them and I lost the friendships. Her birthday is july 18, 1971 so we have opposite venuses and Moons. I was never friends with her, she was mean and judgmental from what I saw, and it always hurt me that I wasnt able to be friends with her as well as my male friends that she dated. I wish that culture would move away from the idea that woman should fight and get all up in arms against each other over a man. Its unhealthy thinking and feeling and really is self destructive and ruins beautiful things.
I will not be involved with anyone if it has to be a secret, or if it would hurt another's feelings and self esteem. I will not go behind anyone's back, and I will not attack another woman by telling her that her man is talking to me or anything. If a person is involved with someone and wants to relate with me, then that HAS to be in the open and know to all. If I do decide to date, I have decided it has to be completely open and honest. It just seems like so many relationships are children pretending to be adults, doing adult activity, but holding onto childish playground popularity games. I'm not a child and I'm not going to date children or people being immature and childish, it serves no purpose but to perpetuate a status quo that is unhealthy and brutally ripping apart people's lives and the lives of those around them.
If Craig cannot tell his GF that him and I have maintained a friendly nonsexual relationship for almost 4 years, then I have to accept that our relationship cannot grow anymore and will always just be a repeat of what it had been, him hooking up the minute I leave, with who ever is available. He doesnt want a WE OURS US, or he doesnt need that, and I can accept that he has his own needs. so do I, and I will never settle for being a secret friend, nor should I. I am a very nice person with a lot of interesting aspects that no one else has ever felt the need to hide me in closets because they are embarrassed to be seen with me.
I personally feel that Craig is not the type to be loud and proud and act in love about any woman at all. Heterosexual males seem to see that (proudly loudly loving your mate) as weak and gay and effeminate, and against the HeManWomanHeters club.

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Re: Veronica

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:09 am

When you mentioned she had dated four different men from your past, I immediately knew she probably had planets in the same place as yours (so that you set off the men's charts in the same way).

First, she has a Taurus Moon - opposite (by sign) yours in Scorpio - so anyone's Hub Sun or Moon that naturally connects to your Scorpio Moon is just as likely to click with her Taurus Moon.

Her Venus is opposite yours to the degree! I'm guessing Craig and/or the other men had planets closely to your Venus at 20° Sagittarius (and, thus, to hers at 20° Gemini).

Your Mercuries are 3° from opposition, so if these men had strong communication connections to your Mercury, they're likely also connecting the same planets to her Mercury (unless they are out of orb because they're a few degrees earlier than your Mercury).

Finally, there is the cluster of planets around the same degree set as your Sun, Neptune, etc. Here's the big difference: In that degree cluster, you have Jupiter connected most closely (and your luminaries involved closely by degree), while her Jupiter is farther away and she has Saturn involved instead. Do Craig and the others have key planets in this zone? If so, they got you (your luminaries) and Jupiter-edged Neptune; with her, they get Saturn-tinged Neptune.'' Using noon for her birth (for convenience):

5°05' Aqu - your Sun
6°07' Sco - her Neptune
7°44' Sco - your Moon
8°40' Sco - your Neptune
8°56' Tau - her Saturn
10°29' Sco - your Jupiter

So yes - in the same small city, with comparable ages, there is a greater chance that the two of you will tap the same people in the dating pool.
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Re: Veronica

Post by Veronica » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:02 am

mikestar13 wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:44 pm
Veronica, I must warn you from experience: when the grief is deep enough, it never ends. I have grieved my son David's death (see viewtopic.php?f=10&t=690&p=9760&hilit=autism#p9760) for near a dozen years--which is longer than he was alive. As time wears, I'm able to function in spite of it more and more, but it never goes away--and the last teardrop won't fall until David greets me at the gates of heaven. You grief may not be as unconsolable as mine--but if it is, there is no shame in that. You will heal and learn and grow and you will know peace and joy. Trust me, I've walked that path. May the stars and the God who made them shine on you.
Karen says the ribs are the Gates, and the heart is Heaven.
She grieved for her son too. She missed him so much it killed her.

Karen had an aversion to physical touch and people in her personal space. It progressed throughout her life quite strongly. She vocalized it and had no problem telling people to back off, she was always very nice and honest and clear so people wouldn't have their feelings hurt unnecessarily.

It was so hard to respect that when she was ill and dying. It killed me at times not to just scoop her up and hug her, massage her, brush her hair. It would have made me feel better, I know. You can say so much with a touch, that a million words dont even start to say. So I had to find the words to say to her, the words my hug wanted to express, and so I blabbed and yammered and told her I loved her and how special she was/is, how pretty her hair smells, and on and on about how valuable she was to me, and how valuable She made me feel. I said so much, so many stupid silly things to try and express what that hug wanted to say....apologizing for everything I ever said or did that might have hurt her...everything
and after a bit she would stay stop...I know...I know..you dont have to say anything. I love you too.

In the last week of her life she asked me to please help remind everyone that she doesnt want to be touched, or cuddled or people in her personal space. She knew that she was not going to be thinking right or able to talk or defend her wishes. I said of course.
and so when hospice care started and she had 3 days I was battling for her as everyone wanted to touch and stroke and lay on.....and I would politely say.... Karen asked us not to....
and they all did it anyway. Karen's eyes would flame, and there was nothing I could do to keep my sister Marcy or my nieces and friends from filling their own need to express to Karen their words that they never found.
I tried.
I did my best but I failed.
but Karen says that it's ok, I didnt fail. We both know exactly how we feel about each other.

I tried, every which way and loose...to express my loving hug to Craig..in words, actions, songs, poems, photos, stories, space and time. I really did.

I try to always tell people how wonderful and valuable and special they are to me and the whole world so that if I die at anytime no one in my "circle of relationships" has any questions as to my love and affection.

Grief is a bit of a twisted sort of gift in that once we feel those depths of pain, when we surface we bring with us an appreciation of time and motivation to move in love through time, hopefully openly and bravely screaming our loves so everyone can see and hear it.

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Re: Veronica

Post by Veronica » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:29 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:09 am
When you mentioned she had dated four different men from your past, I immediately knew she probably had planets in the same place as yours (so that you set off the men's charts in the same way).

First, she has a Taurus Moon - opposite (by sign) yours in Scorpio - so anyone's Hub Sun or Moon that naturally connects to your Scorpio Moon is just as likely to click with her Taurus Moon.

Her Venus is opposite yours to the degree! I'm guessing Craig and/or the other men had planets closely to your Venus at 20° Sagittarius (and, thus, to hers at 20° Gemini).

Your Mercuries are 3° from opposition, so if these men had strong communication connections to your Mercury, they're likely also connecting the same planets to her Mercury (unless they are out of orb because they're a few degrees earlier than your Mercury).

Finally, there is the cluster of planets around the same degree set as your Sun, Neptune, etc. Here's the big difference: In that degree cluster, you have Jupiter connected most closely (and your luminaries involved closely by degree), while her Jupiter is farther away and she has Saturn involved instead. Do Craig and the others have key planets in this zone? If so, they got you (your luminaries) and Jupiter-edged Neptune; with her, they get Saturn-tinged Neptune.'' Using noon for her birth (for convenience):

5°05' Aqu - your Sun
6°07' Sco - her Neptune
7°44' Sco - your Moon
8°40' Sco - your Neptune
8°56' Tau - her Saturn
10°29' Sco - your Jupiter

So yes - in the same small city, with comparable ages, there is a greater chance that the two of you will tap the same people in the dating pool.
it's so weird....
but I was only friends with the three others..I never dated or kissed ect, just kids hanging out at school stuff.

.yes they were guys who were easy to talk and joke with, were open minded to my weird teen age quirks and generally were just guys who waved a freak flag and were outsiders with no friends like me. They never made any sexual advances and one would call me his little sister.

I most definitely feel that Neptune Saturn, she was always coming of as cold hard mean and stuck up, but I just figure that was my personal synastry with her, and that maybe to others they experienced her as a nice kind loving happy person.

I will be quite honest though, she also was dramatic and violent and aggressive, and I've told Craig for the past 4 years that I am not going to risk pissing her off and having her come and shoot me, and to leave me alone if he is with her. So each time Craig and I have talked or worked on a house I think he has finally broken off with her, only to find out I'm wrong, that he is still with her.
this last time he asked me to help with a house but specifically upfront said, I'm still with her.....which prompted me to point blank ask If he wanted to be with me or not.
I had really hoped Craig had had an adult conversation with her and at least told her that we are friends, but well...that didnt happen, and I'm not going to tell her, that's just ugly all over. I wont ever lie if asked about things, I was open and honest and clear and upfront with Craig every day from my end so I have nothing to lie about.

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