Eris

[Soft Alpaca]

Something else is also getting at me, isn't Eris strife personified (which in a way reminds me of Libra, but Eris isn't witchy to like libra- nor is libra at it's core chaotic).

I'm having trouble visualizing Eris, separating her from Mars (I'm getting red vs magenta here). Chaos is very anti-tribal in nature I have a natural inclination to live on my own as well..

[Jim Eshelman]

This presumes the mythogy is valid. It often isn't. At least, we can't assume in advance that it will be (Planetary Jupiter is SO unlike the God Jupiter Goddess Venus isn't nearly as nice a person as planetary Venus.) We need to observe the planet with as few preconceptions as possible, I think, and especially not presume the mythology dictates the outcome.

[Soft Alpaca]

Very well but discord fits her well, if anyone were to be as playful to start a war between husband's that I know it would be my gemini friends. I think that Eris+Jupiter angular is also going to be attributed partly in my bipolar nature. (If you take my angular planets by what you wrote and add Eris you get this): it pretty much hits the nail for some of what you chalked up as just my Vertex Uranus
..
"Warm, friendly, generous, shining their light on the world.Positive, optimistic, oriented to the good. Authoritative Mischievous, curious, trickster, outlier, and disruptor. Strongly individualistic, independent, going their own way. Needs freedom & breathing room (physical, intellectual) and frequent renewal"

I think this does sum me up better than a sign. Eris definitely changes my likeability. Also people sometimes I think see the Eris-Uranus energy exaggerating my Capricorn (If that makes sense) sometimes I literally will be calm and then go fly off the hinges burn the house down wild: and this is more personal than just my Mars-Venus aspect.

If it weren't for Eris+Uranus I think I'd have fit perfectly into the Sagittarius-Leo role, but if your right Jim; Aquarius-Gemini planets are there. I feel like I won't ever connect with the signs because of this.

[Jim Eshelman]

Very well but discord fits her well, if anyone were to be as playful to start a war between husband's that I know it would be my gemini friends

Just to underscore my last point: You are again relying on the mythology and presuming a connection.

"Discord" isn't even an obvious trait of the Mars-Eris people I know (except to those who particularly conflict with them). Some are quite gracious, even (based on other things in the chart, most likely). An occasional discordant politician, maybe. Among the angular Eris folks catalogued above, I'm not sure it's exactly the right word (most are disruptors, but not necessarily even disruptive in the usual sense - they disrupt, or interrupt, where things were flowing otherwise, perhaps.)

[Soft Alpaca]

So maybe I should offer some alternative vocabulary then.

I'd use words like
Reverse/divert current; alternate flow. Managing things on both AC and DC. Therefore creative, chaotic, and causes breakers to be blown; disrupt design (not geared towards or against "others health" specifically). Mischievous, curious, trickster. Manages the swarm- incomprehensiblity- (with) little native resistance to disorder. "Messy".

I added messy because I feel like it's how on Eris people often see and words directed at its energy and habits we form around it.

[Danica]

I am noticing a distinct element/characteristic of Playfulness - needs more observation and reflection, just putting it out here for the initial notes.

[Soft Alpaca]

I could see where Mischievous could be seen as playful, however I think Playful is more distinctly a Gemini word. I wouldn't at all describe myself as Playful, however I would go as far to use Frisky, Wily, Wild. I think there is a link between Gemini and Capricorn in the word wild (to some extent, Eris vs Mars)

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

I wouldn't at all describe myself as Playful, however I would go as far to use Frisky, Wily, Wild. I think there is a link between Gemini and Capricorn in the word wild (to some extent, Eris vs Mars)

I've seen playful elements in the collective descriptions of Eris as well. Not everything is going to show in one person. I think trying to focus on one person in depth isn't as helpful as it might seem at first blush, certainly not in this kind of general thread.
Let's focus on the planet under discussion, not on individual people. Let's not dismiss things that don't apply to us as individuals so we don't miss anything about the planet.

[Jim Eshelman]

Thanks, Jupe. Yes, what I would like from this thread is an examination of actual people with Eris active in various ways but especially on angles or in close hard aspect from luminaries, with a goal of identifying specific observed character / behavior traits they have - much as we did in the sign exploration threads.

Thanks again.

[Veronica]

I miss Av

Both his luminaries and angle.
He is a pro at calling people on their chaos and setting them straight, at least thats what I have seen him do in my limited experience.

Im thinking about where Eris is....way way way way out in the icy cold of space spinning at almost the same rate as us but so so small a mass, and what types of nature would be there, before the miraculous conception in Pluto .
Its like playing pin the tail on the donkey where your blindfolded and spun around blindfolded and then expected to get it right?

[Soft Alpaca]

You know the very nature of the game that you described is under Eris' realm...

[Soft Alpaca]

I've also just noticed Eris-Jupiter types may be aware of burnouts, and (perhaps?) adapt accordingly, where as just Jupiter types definitely seem to have a cap (target) and sometimes crash and burn.

All of this is mundanely speaking of course because I can't observe this within the Natal.

This is speaking from myself verses other Jupiter angular students and co-workers who over exert themselves now (they never took any days off, never had time for this or that. They work 12-14 hour days). As for Jupiter folks crashing that's already evident in other studies.

Just looking now my nana (Virgo, Scorpio,Cancer) has Eris opposite of her Virgo Sun loosely conj mercury. It makes perfect sense that I inherited the bipolar genes from her and that I moved in with her. She has an angular Mars and Neptune (backing up her Scorpio-Cancer type). Right now she is undergoing years on back taxes, we have someone who is renting the land who is suing her because they want to take the house and farm from her (the lease was signed on may 4th probably around 1-4pm in2017, Newville PA Cumberland county, I believe her birthday is somewhere on this forum) my pap who knew he had stage 3-4 cancer signed it with her less than 2 weeks before his Death. My nan is a widow 2 times now, her other husband beat the living daylights out of her. She lost her older sister when she was a young adult as well.

And dig this my mom has Eris opposite of her (4)Virgo Mars,loose (4) trine her moon and semi square(1.5) her sun, and within 3 degrees of her vertex! (wouldn't be surprised if this moved closer mundanely).
I always chalked it up to her Scorpio-Aquarius with addictive Virgo Mars, but my mother went to rehab at 13 for drinking, she had me at 17. She described her self as the poster child for every teenage crisis; before the posters were ever made.

There you go Jim- Chaos is inherited like the mental illness in my family..

[Jim Eshelman]

Thanks. That's useful input. One clarification, though: You wrote,

This is speaking from myself verses other Jupiter angular students and co-workers who over exert themselves now (they never took any days off, never had time for this or that. They work 12-14 hour days). As for Jupiter folks crashing that's already evident in other studies.

Did you mean just Jupiter angular or (as you seemed to mean when you started your post) Jupiter-Eris aspects angular?

There you go Jim- Chaos is inherited like the mental illness in my family..

This recurring themes are indeed interesting. Thanks.

[Soft Alpaca]

They don't have angular Eris(where as I do). (I'm saying that burnouts from overworking are normal, Eris disrupts this normal; in my own case I make sure I don't overwork, but it could play out a little different in other Eris folks. Tbe main point is that Eris disrupts this burnout (common in my jupiter heavy industry).
Through all the hardship (Mars heavy with Mercury and Saturn) she faced for example, even my own mother now works for the federal government and is very healthy, she even just bought a home. She doesn't have a Jupiter Eris (natal) aspect but it hits on all three of her core-bodies and might be angular (vertex) on that.

Chaos in this to me is seeming Netural, almost androgynous in a sense, in the way that it can be disruptive but managed to manifest how the user chooses (if we are to say that when we go through the downs we eventually come out the other side). It's kind of like a coin if you will.

[Soft Alpaca]

Eventually I'd like to see an Angular Eris thread started where we could talk more specifically in this subject (I really like the Jupiter-Eris and Sun-Uranus angularity in my chart, it says a lot).

On another note do we have any specific examples of Eris interacting with angular luminaries (or maybe Mars) in Capricorn?(I know that this is oddly specific and not related to me at all, but I really have a hunch it will show us something).

[Jim Eshelman]

Eventually I'd like to see an Angular Eris thread started where we could talk more specifically in this subject

Go ahead and start one. Here is my preliminary proposed interpretation of Eris foreground:

Mischievous, curious, trickster, outlier, and disruptor: Naturally navigates the swarm of chaos more easily with practical advantage (but thus also leaves a wake of chaos, disrupting imposed orders and conditions, because they have little native resistance to disorder). Managing the incomprehensible, juggles undecided possibilities.

[Veronica]

Jim you wrote

"There is a "translation of obscure languages, rendering things into comprehensible and accessible form" theme that I found with natal Moon-Eris aspects."

I think that Eris is of a Chimeran nature, or the fact that nature is Chimerian.

It is slowly becoming common knowledge that what we think we are is way to limited for the truth of the matter.

What is human in us is only a small part of a larger compliation of organelles living in mosiacs and symbiosis.

the the dna in the blood you draw from me right now may very well not match the dna in the blood you draw right now (a second later).


my composite being on a microscopic level is a strange hopefull monster.

[Soft Alpaca]

Eris is the feminine version of this chimera nature, she is Lilith the mother of hydra! She is the birth of a monster (Mars!) If Eris were to rule anything (as seen in my my mother and 2 I'f not all 3 of my of my female best friends (best friends of all time list only Includes maybe 2-3 men if that)- all addictive sexual drug (alcohol) maddened rage, sexual abuse themes). However almost all females with Eris, unlike Mars males types, succeed; but they always succeed with pain! (No flawless martian victorious nature, aka "Navigating the unmanageable/incomprehensible").

Eris is therefore- in what I'm seeing- Eris' physical ruling Is the pain in child birth(?! though maybe this could be Sedna based off of what some of what Jim said) It's pain with an absolute reason! Aka the accomplishing the incomprehensible, - seducing the sublime, aka the egg to Plutos' seed[?] (Uranus is the aspect and process of childbirth from the universes perspective, Eris is from the mother (Mary or Lilith/Nyx?) and Adam (Mars) is the child , Eve (Venus) the wife...

If Sedna ruled anything btw I would have to guess it would rule the pleasure of childbirth (all if the drugs the body releases or no longer inhibits).. like the Eros relationship Taurus and Scorpio face but in a far more chaotic way..

Delete what you have to Jim- as the Eris angular people I know would say you won't offend me till you have a gun at my head.

[Jim Eshelman]

Today is a very interesting transiting Eris day. Yesterday was the exact 0°00' Eris square to my Mars and I didn't notice anything specific yesterday (not that I expect a same-day result on a slow transit), but today what seems to be the full effect is quite evident.

First... this is a really slow transit. Eris first moved into 1°00' orb of square my Mars in April 2013 and will last leave 1° orb in February 2027 - a 14-year transit. Between 2018 and 2023 it makes an exact hit 11 times. - This year, it's within 1° March 30 to November 14, but yesterday was the exact hit (with another on November 14).

The effect is quite simple to describe: There is enormous chaos (what I might have previously called a Mercury day on steroids) that is drawing from me two types of Mars involvement: Either (1) moving very rapidly, very aggressively into challenges, getting strong results fast and under great time pressure for no-warning problems; or (2) having to work not to lose my temper from the pressure, especially in managing situations with insufficient data (often interwoven complexity). This description would have fit any of several events that happened today if they came up alone, but mostly I've been juggling at least three at once.

In short: chaos (knotted data) in the environment engages and draws forth my Mars (in positive, negative, or "who can tell which" ways).

[Jim Eshelman]

FWIW (and hoping I don't derail this Eris thread with stuff that should go elsewhere), I wouldn't fret too much about that if the objective facts of the relationship don't reflect it provided the standard natal-to-natal synastry is sound. For example, Marion and I have a Novien-to-Novien partile Mars-Saturn square which simply makes no sense compared to reality (and runs contrary to all the other indications, especially between the two radixes). - Of course, her Novien Mercury-Uranus to my Novien Moon-Mercury makes all the sense in the world so, hey, what can I say?

The last time I took a batch of relationships and checked Novien-related synastry, I gave to a (tentative: I may deny this in the future) conclusion that while Novien-to-Natal often had some stunning connections, I wasn't sure I could argue that Novien-to-Novien aspects were valid at all. (Which makes absolutely no sense: I can come up with three major reasons this makes no sense.) I'm not saying this is so, but at the very least it tells me that Novien-to-Novien aspects were not so compelling as to entirely define a relationship.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

As I remember, Saturn contacts are common between happily married couples. You take each other's weight. Or something. Or you worry about each other? It was Jung, I think.

[By Jove]

Eris is the feminine version of this chimera nature, she is Lilith the mother of hydra! She is the birth of a monster (Mars!) If Eris were to rule anything (as seen in my my mother and 2 I'f not all 3 of my of my female best friends (best friends of all time list only Includes maybe 2-3 men if that)- all addictive sexual drug (alcohol) maddened rage, sexual abuse themes). However almost all females with Eris, unlike Mars males types, succeed; but they always succeed with pain! (No flawless martian victorious nature, aka "Navigating the unmanageable/incomprehensible").

Eris is therefore- in what I'm seeing- Eris' physical ruling Is the pain in child birth(?! though maybe this could be Sedna based off of what some of what Jim said) It's pain with an absolute reason! Aka the accomplishing the incomprehensible, - seducing the sublime, aka the egg to Plutos' seed[?] (Uranus is the aspect and process of childbirth from the universes perspective, Eris is from the mother (Mary or Lilith/Nyx?) and Adam (Mars) is the child , Eve (Venus) the wife...

If Sedna ruled anything btw I would have to guess it would rule the pleasure of childbirth (all if the drugs the body releases or no longer inhibits).. like the Eros relationship Taurus and Scorpio face but in a far more chaotic way..

Delete what you have to Jim- as the Eris angular people I know would say you won't offend me till you have a gun at my head.

IDK. Mars was always messy/hairy/difficult/chaotic etc. Do you find any distinction between Eris male/female types or Mars female/male types?

[Jim Eshelman]

I don't find Eris types to be martial. This is another case where arguing planetary natures on the base of mythology takes you down wrong roads.

Typical traits of people with Eris on an angle or strongly aspecting a luminary seem to be some variation of: Mischievous, curious, trickster, outlier, and disruptor: Naturally navigates the swarm of chaos more easily with practical advantage (but thus also leaves a wake of chaos, disrupting imposed orders and conditions, because they have little native resistance to disorder). Managing the incomprehensible, juggles undecided possibilities.

[Dimitrios]

Very interesting. I did not know anything about Eris, just discovered that i have a Eris-Venus opposition in my natal chart, almost exact. Eris in 8th house in Pisces - Venus in 2nd house in Virgo. Just noticed that i separated when transit Uranus was in close conjunct with natal Eris in 8th house.

[Jim Eshelman]

Very interesting. I did not know anything about Eris, just discovered that i have a Eris-Venus opposition in my natal chart, almost exact. Eris in 8th house in Pisces - Venus in 2nd house in Virgo. Just noticed that i separated when transit Uranus was in close conjunct with natal Eris in 8th house.

Thanks. Was Uranus also opposite your Venus when that happened?

[Dimitrios]

Thanks. Was Uranus also opposite your Venus when that happened?

Yes. Natal Moon, Venus, Uranus and Pluto are in Virgo in 2nd house...bad luck or wrong choices, since then alone, like living in a vast desert.This "Eris-Uranus period" was very liberating and illuminating, transformed me totally - i think positively, but introduced me into a very long period with bad luck and deep loneliness. Transiting Jupiter conjuncting all these planets 1-2 years later did not help me at all, loneliness and depression continue till now.

[Jim Eshelman]

I want to revisit Venus-Eris aspects, since this is the only major Eris involvement for which I don't even have a provisional interpretation. It's difficult to separate Eris on first impression from other outer planets with Venus - especially Uranus and Pluto - even though I have a clear distinction in my own mind. (Pluto and Eris are exactly opposites of each other in principle, even though they seem much alike in outcome, since the same behavior can come from opposite motives.)

One road I'm following: I recently have settled on the idea that Anais Nin is one of the most fruitful, valuable examples of Venus-Eris (partile conjunction, neither foreground nor deeply background so indifferent to the strength of either of them individually). I'll loop back to this.

Other planets (including, most interestingly and most clearly, Mercury) have shown specific traits of promiscuity when connected to Eris. I don't mean simply what moralists regard as "sexual looseness" but - at least with Mercury-Eris - an element of curiosity, an embracing of the idea of multiplicity ("infinite points" managed at once, more than the idea of diversity or variety). When I look at personal and public examples of Venus-Eris close hard aspects, I find that a lot of them (but by no means all of them) have something similar that ties more directly to Venus.

Specifically, the connection of Venus-Eris to promiscuity is something often more private than the (more easily visible) Mercury-Eris form. In fact, privacy may be part of it (take Nin as a strong example), or this may only be a consequence of the need for privacy with such matters in existing society. With "disruption" being a common Eris word, it seems Venus-Eris people are more willing to be disruptors, with a lot of examples in my files of people unbothered by a partner's infidelity. (I don't have a lot of cases where they were 'unfaithful' themselves, but many where they were willing to have long-term covert involvement with others who were committed and theoretically inaccessible.) - I need to emphasize, though, that I have probably as many cases where there is no evidence of this kind of behavior (not that it tends to leave evidence lying around), and also that this attitude is not unique to Venus-Eris - but in the cases at hand it is extremely clear, simple, precise, and accurate. (A side effect is that Venus-Eris seems entirely unjudging of the other person's choices, though they are capable of being highly discriminating on their own and act within their own moral rules).

There is a flavor (harder to pin down and be clear about) of Nin's theme of following one's desires wherever they led. There is a clear, measurable pattern in cases where I have first-hand or reliable second-hand knowledge that they express their sexuality with unusual freedom when they are sexually involved (i.e., not indiscriminate about partners and not hornier per se or more aggressive than others, but, when actually involved in a sexual act they are no-holds-barred, no holding back; the women routinely go for multiple orgasms, for example).

It's important to distinguish these behaviors from similar ones common to Venus-Uranus and Venus-Pluto. Uranus' primary motive is to be free and unleashed, so Venus-Uranus behaviors arise from "don't tell me I can't, don't hold me back, don't try to restrict me." Pluto's primary motive is being exempt from generalization or categorization, which takes the real-life form of needing to evade others' arbitrary standards, or to evade the idea that there is some kind of binding rule about a matter. Viewed superficially, these two often look similar, though their motives are quite distinct.

How does Venus-Eris contrast with these? I may not have found that language yet, though it isn't a need for freedom in the Uranian sense or exemption from categorization in the Pluto sense. In fact, it's probably the opposite of the latter, because my basic chaos idea of Eris centers on the simultaneity of all categories. (This isn't the same as "universalism" in the Aquarian sense, exactly, which, again, is mostly a Uranian "don't draw boundaries." Universalism implies one thing with no internal boundaries, while Eris is simultaneously holding infinite distinctions in awareness.)

So, when anything resembling promiscuity shows with Venus-Eris, it must be arising from seeing a bigger picture (which is a nice Eris phrase I haven't used before, but fits my basic theme): a perception that any particular involvement a person has is just one detail in an infinitely vast array ("infinite" strictly in the mathematical sense merging possibility and actuality).

"No judgment" might be a concept here. In many behaviors, at least, Venus-Eris is non-judging of others' choices. I think this must come naturally from a perspective of the simultaneity of all categories, i.e., all choices are morally equal. (It could be one form of the "contrary to Jupiter" feel some of you have sensed.)

[Jim Eshelman]

Anais Nin is an interesting study in this regard. Her initial sexual reticence surrendering to an incessant stream of lovers of multiple varieties, learning to live her own desires and dreams, her long-term quiet bigamy, her incest, and the deep, obscuring privacy in which she (I'm sure necessarily) hid all of this actualize many of these points.

With all of that, there is an honest, even extreme intimacy in her writing. Even when she veils or misrepresents details, she is self-disclosing. More openly than most people, she is disclosing herself - her inner, intimate self - in every act.

Some of her language about her sexuality (which, though, is much narrower than what the full telling of her stories discloses):

I like extravagance [including] sexuality which bursts the thermometers.

[On her first exposure to erotic novels as a married adult:] One by one, I read these books, which were completely new to me... They overwhelmed me. I was innocent before I read them, but by the time I had read them all, there was nothing I did not know about sexual exploits... I had my degree in erotic lore.

I want to live darkly and richly in my femaleness. I want a man lying over me, always over me. His will, his pleasure, his desire, his life, his work, his sexuality the touchstone, the command, my pivot. I don’t mind working, holding my ground intellectually, artistically; but as a woman, oh, God, as a woman I want to be dominated. I don’t mind being told to stand on my own feet, not to cling, be all that I am capable of doing, but I am going to be pursued, {bonked}, possessed by the will of a male at his time, his bidding.

I hate men who are afraid of women's strength.

The truly faithless one is the one who makes love to only a fraction of you. And denies the rest.

Only the united beat of sex and heart together can create ecstasy.

Reality doesn't impress me. I only believe in intoxication, in ecstasy, and when ordinary life shackles me, I escape, one way or another.

Whenever you do something that is not aligned with the yearning of your soul - you create suffering.

If I love you it means we share the same fantasies, the same madnesses.

I reserve the right to love many different people at once, and to change my prince often.

And maybe the most perfect Venus-Eris quote:

In chaos, there is fertility.

My observation of "no judgement' of others' choices above is reinforced in tracking down Nin in her own words and those of her biographers. One academic (Ruth Charnock) wrote of "Nin’s refusal to occupy a position of judgment, shame or condemnation." This idea of shamelessness regarding sex summarizes much of what I observed immediately above (and says it more concisely).

BTW this makes me wonder if shameless might be a more general word for Eris, as part of a theme of the simultaneous, equal persistence of all possibility, all points infinite space coexisting independent of judgment and available for choice.

[Jim Eshelman]

A few final observations for now...

I'm not sure what the exact link is... but it seems to me that there are more infamous murderers with this aspect than many other astrological categories. The ones in front of me are Bruno Hauptman, Ian Brady, William Heirens, Winnie Ruth Judd, James Huberty, and Angelo Buono, to which I suppose we can add Thomas Mooney.

There are also some noteworthy victims of abuse or worse, such as Nicole Brown Simpson and Rodney King. However, this might be an observation based on too few data points, for it is certainly not typical of Venus-Eris as a whole (e.g., it's quite the opposite of Wayne Dyer).

There are a lot of other Venus-Eris figures known for (what society calls) sexual excesses. When these are men, they get away with it for a long time as "just being men," while women are judged sooner and more acutely. Consider, for example, Roger Ailes vs. Frida Kahlo (aside from a very long list of powerful political figures, both male and female).

[James Condor]

I have n Sun Square nEris 3’50. Maybe foreground AC, too.

[Jim Eshelman]

I have n Sun Square nEris 3’50. Maybe foreground AC, too.

Yes, a Class 2 Sun-Eris square.

But Eris isn't foreground. Because it is 18°32' below the ecliptic, it rises much later than it's degree. Your Eris is actually 13°26' below Ascendant.

OTOH, the mundane calculation makes the Sun-Eris stronger: Because Sun is in the middle of the 10th house and Eris is roughly in the middle of the 1st house, your have a mundane Sun-Eris square within 1°50'.

[James Condor]

Cool. Maybe I fit the description.

[Jim Eshelman]

Cool. Maybe I fit the description.

My trial interpretation for Sun-Eris aspects is: A disruptor to the established order and conditions (curious, trickster, mischievous): Open to outlier possibilities. Navigates chaos with practical advantage (leaving a wake of chaos: has little native resistance to disorder).

[Veronica]

Someone once asked...
"Have you no Shame?"
And I laughed and replied
"Why would I want any of that!"

That was a meme a friend shared with me

My Venus is widely square Eris and Eris is opposite my Uranus.
What I think may have been a major issue in my 3 long term relationships is that I am privately extremely promiscuous/ sexual / open, and that was taken/ interpreted that I am indiscriminate and would have any type of sex with just about anything and that I have no control of my sexual urges.
But it was more in line with, I felt safe and comfortable being sexual with them and thus my inhibitions were down and I had a willingness to be sexually playful and receptive to my consort because I felt secure that it was private and special between us.

When I lost that safe feeling with each of them....when I felt like they were trying to shame me for my pleasures.
Well, that was it.
When I felt like they were telling everyone about having sex with me and all the private details I couldn't trust them anymore with my vulnerability/sex. ( I know my first boyfriend did talk as well as my exhusband, and I deeply feel that the topic of sex with me came outta the mouths of several of Craig's friends).

[James Condor]

Ok. Well, I am calm under pressure and pretty risk tolerant. A little shameless. I am very curious, will annoy people with my thirst for knowledge, and can be, not lately, just plain ignorant of others boundaries. I can easily get into mischief but I don’t prefer trouble.

But all in all I attract eccentricity. I am an outlier. Nothing is taboo. Nothing is right and wrong, besides, that I don’t want to be a labeled bad or I don’t want to be in trouble by law or any group. I often don’t think of consequences, unless I slow down and think, which is sorta paralyzing and safe. I lack healthy boundaries. I also process my environment quickly so I think I’m making good decisions.

I’m tying to confirm the aspect without overlapping other natal aspects, and foreground planets- n Moon-Mercury, n Venus-Uranus, nMoon-Neptune, nMars-Neptune, nMars-Pluto and n Sun-Saturn-Pluto.

I will hopefully see what comes out of it

[Veronica]

I dont think you lack healthy boundaries at all.
From what I see, you have very extremely unique strong and healthy boundaries, yet they are far past the social norm so it seems as if you dont have a line to cross.
I'm pretty sure I have hit that line at least once.

[James Condor]

I dont think you lack healthy boundaries at all.
From what I see, you have very extremely unique strong and healthy boundaries, yet they are far past the social norm so it seems as if you dont have a line to cross.
I'm pretty sure I have hit that line at least once.

I appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt. You have an interesting, creative, organic, positive and assumptions take on my situation. I relate to what you said to some extent.

But, basically I need to work on forming myself. This includes establishing better, more assertive, honest, direct communication with myself and others. I include in this, being more open in telling people how I feel right away. So I need to be more aware of want I want so that I can communicate to myself too.
Socially, I want to maturely and respectfully voice my stance in the moment, but not at any and all costs. I need the confidence to be prepared to properly handle my internal reactions and any external reaction.
Basically, I want to assert more, some form of voice for myself in order to establish myself differently.
I am used to thinking, weighing thoughts, options, decisions, and though this is okay, I see another perspective and want another perspective. But that perspective still has to be made, by me.

By being more assertive in communication, I am doing myself a favor and everyone else. I figure, I can learn a new skill, much like meditation. This cognitive self therapy would over time get me used dealing with differences and issues. Both personal and social. There is a certain freedom to the structure of it. I will eventually save time too. I would get better at knowing myself and others to the point of being more efficient. I would be living more balanced and not so much in my head.

[FlorencedeZ.]

Very interesting to read about Anais Nin Venus conjunct Eris Jim.
How do you see close dynamic natal aspects of Saturn-Eris?
Both my mum and brother have partile conjuctions and when chaos arrives the lid gets tightened so to speak, nothing is allowed to break loose and things have to be kept in control.

I understand that these aspects are to be seen in the whole picture of a chart, maybe it will add a little bit of value to Eris observations nevertheless.

[Jim Eshelman]

Flo, that's a very interesting observation and close to mine. I'd tentatively identified that Saturn-Eris has a real knack for controlling the chaos. (But I hadn't caught the exact nuance you cited). One of my colleagues with this conjunction just became Deputy Attorney General and chief operations officer of the U. S. Department of Justice, and I thought it fit her job description well. She previously worked in the Obama White House managing the Ebola pandemic response. Before that, she worked under Bob Mueller helping restructure the FBI. But even in simpler matters, she's always been gifted at wandering into confusing scenarios with many moving pieces and complexities and organizing things.

I first noticed this characteristic among very advanced ceremonial magicians who consciously live in worlds of shifting realities that lie behind objective reality and spend much of their lives bringing order out of chaos.

[Veronica]

James,

Did you know that women talk and use tens of thousands of words a day? Tens of thousands of blah blah blah blah, who knows what exactly but it is almost like endless prattle at times being around women who basically talk nonstop all day. Everyday.

Men, supposedly use about 10,000.
Who knows what is going on inside the Male mind most of the time? It's like pulling teeth sometimes to get a conversation.

I applaud you for putting conscientious action into communicating more. I know it so hard to do, to find words, to relate experiences and intangible things, I try and try and try and fail and fail and fail. But I keep trying.
I hope you do too.

[Jim Eshelman]

Based on the work above, I've settled for now on the following provisional interpretation of natal Venus-Eris aspects:

Sexuality is unusually free from shame. Finds flowering or fertility in chaos. When sexually involved, expresses sexuality with unusual “no holding back” freedom. Indifferent to others’ or society's rules: Faithful to their own moral rules, while entirely free from judging, shaming, or condemning others’ choices (willing to be disruptor). Discloses their inner, intimate self in every act. (Sees a personal connection as one detail in a larger array.)

[Veronica]

A few weeks ago when my sister was at death's door I found myself in a situation in which my sisters daughter was angry at me and my sister.

I realized I had never been more afraid of a confrontation in my life. No one scares me more when upset then my niece and I love her to pieces.

My niece is a nurse. My father calls her nurse Ratchet.
She is the most loving capable encouraging and self assured person I have ever met. She is a lady and will not lower herself under any circumstances. You can either rise to her level or not, she truly does not bother with stupidity or laziness.
She excelled in school and has a brilliant mind capable of deep problem solving and seeing others perspectives.
I am truly blessed to have her in my life and for the love and support she has shown me.

After reading this thread I knew that she must have Eris strong in her chart and knowing how slow Eris is I knew from her birthdate it was probably conjunct her Sun.

The interesting thing is that I never knew what time she was born, and so when I drew up her chart I had to feel her out in a way to try and surmise the time. After some deep feelings and thinking I came up with 9am ish.

My Astrology has gotten better because yesterday when I was going through paperwork my dad had in the barn I found her hospital tag.

I'd like to introduce to you my most beloved LB, and if you have any fears or worries about the future, let me tell you that this little bit of StarShine is busting heads and tearing down ugliness and living and laughing and loving inspite of it all

LB
Born April 4th 1979 8:52 am Rochester NY

[Jim Eshelman]

Sun 19°45' Pisces
Eris 19°50' Pisces
Moon 21°34' Gemini

Way to go!

[SteveS]

[Jim Eshelman]

Mozart, whose chart is already dominated by Uranus and Pluto, was also an Eris fellow. Eris was partile conjunct his partile Moon-Pluto conjunction. It was also 1°28' from his IC, making it slightly closer to an angle than Uranus.

Additionally, Oprah Winfrey was born with Eris 0°30' from IC (something not evident except in the mundoscope).

[mikestar13]

On the topic of Venus-Eris, I think I have some relevant experience, since in my nativity Eris conjoins Venus within half a degree (also conjuct the Sun and sextile rising Mars in Taurus, which complicates the picture). There has always been chaos in my romantic/sexual relationships. There is chaos now, but by God's grace with Terry it is external circumstance and not the relationship dynamic itself (a pleasing reversal of my usual pattern).

I have been always been reliably monogamous on the one hand, and not just a question of values: cheating, threesomes, orgies, ... just don't float my boat. My natural bent is to be laser focused on my current relationship, be it for the night or a two decade marriage.

On the other hand, when I'm not committed to someone, pretty much I never met a woman I didn't want (barring cases of a woman so egregiously ugly I question if she's human or so palpably evil that it's oozing from her pores). In the context of the above, there is essentially nothing I won't at least try sexually. (For the record, barring any degree of non-consensual--I consider that grossly immoral and also have never even fantasized about it).

Yet on the third hand, while I don't mind and now and then have enjoyed the kinkier things, I don't miss them or crave them. Plain vanilla if in semi reasonable quality and quantity never leaves me even slightly unsatisfied even for years at a time.

Better astrologers than me need to figure out the contradictions in the above, but the chaotic pull in different directions seems very Eris to me.

[Venus_Daily]

I know this isn't the SSR forum, but I went back and looked over my SSR charts, and I had Eris prominent in a lot of my charts from 2011-2017 when my mother had her stroke. In 2018, obviously, the trend stop, and this is the point when I started seeing a different endocrinologist and addressed a lot of the physiological issues I had been having due to being hypopituitary, and the biggest thing that really helped was addressing a severe Vitamin D and magnesium deficiency I had. Sorry if I derailed the thread. I just didn't feel in control of anything during this time.

[Jim Eshelman]

Eris is far off the horizon so it doesn't fall on angles often where it seems to by longitude. Here is what I found of transiting Eris in those years.

2011: 9°07' below Asc, very widely foreground. (Saturn on Dsc was the main factor.)

2012: 5°29' from MC, moderately foreground. The most important thing was Venus exactly on Asc. However, by transit Eris was crossing SSR MC all year.

2013: 1°01' from Dsc - very strong, the strongest thing in the chart (and opposite Venus across the horizon).

2014: 2°46' from IC - quite close. But Pluto half a degree from Ascendant was the strongest thing.

2015: 0°19' from Asc. The closest of the set, and the only transiting planet of great significance in the chart.

2016: 4°52' off MC, but intensified by close opposition (in mundo) by Moon. Probably the second strongest year.

2017: 5°40' from Dsc, The most important thing that year was Uranus 0°02' from Dsc.

[Venus_Daily]

Does this symbolize that Eris has some influence in our lives through transits and returns? It does seem to echo other harsh influences. It's going to be pretty interested to see Eris' transit into Aries around 2024. Hope it doesn't symbolize war.

[Jim Eshelman]

Does this symbolize that Eris has some influence in our lives through transits and returns? It does seem to echo other harsh influences. It's going to be pretty interested to see Eris' transit into Aries around 2024. Hope it doesn't symbolize war.

It isn't likely, since Eris' extremely long, elongated orbit places it in Aries a very long time.

Eris first enters Aries in June 2023 and, after five retrograde cycles back into Pisces, settles in for the long-run in February 2028. It remains in Aries full-time until (get ready) 2136 - 108 years later - before it first sets foot in Taurus. It then retrogrades back and forth between the two constellations until it fully settles into Taurus in 2140.

Eris first entered Pisces (for the current cycle) in May 1901 and has been there full-time since 1905.

We can't easily study its prior behavior in the signs since it's orbit appears to be 559 years long. That means it was last in Pisces 1343-1469 (full-time during 1347-1464). You could study that century-plus to see how it compares to the years since 1905. It's last passage through Aries was 1464-1581 (being there full-time 1469-1578).

It's interesting, but perhaps coincidental, that the Black Death (bubonic plague) ravaged Europe 1346-53, the earliest years of Eris in Pisces; and we've had two gigantic world pandemics during the current passage. The 15th century, over half of which had Eris in Pisces and the other half in Aries, was the dawning of the Renaissance, the fall of Constantinople and eastern empire it governed; so I'm sure there is one or more of the Crusades in one of these two periods along with the intentional effort by Europe to dismantle the Islamic world. (I haven't looked it up yet.) Eris in Aries marked Columbus' voyage and the opening up of half the planet to the other half in the greatest period of exploration in history (which, however, sounds more Piscian to me).

Under the Eris in Pisces period - let's look at the exploration - Henry the Navigator led Portugal's great explorations. Joan of Arc led her campaign and suffered her punishment at the end (religious wars were quite popular). The Aztecs rose to become the dominant force and culture in Central America and the Incas build Machu Picchu. In the last years of the passage, Constantinople and the Byzantine Empire fell. At about the same time, the Hundred Years War ended (I guess this ran more or less the full length of Eris in Pisces) with decisive French victory over England.

There continued to be wars with Eris in Aries, though these were not of the scope and grandeur of the Pisces period. The early ones, at least, were more about shifting rulership and rotating dynasties. Of course, Columbus' voyage is a turning point in 1492, along with the concurrent expulsion of all Jews from Spain; other significant European explorers made their historic, consequential journeys to America.

Most of the 16th Century had Eris in Aries. The Italian Renaissance was in full force. Europe's march into the Americas began to surge. Copernicus and Brahe began to dismantle religion-based old models of the universe and create modern celestial mechanics. The Protestant Reformation began, with permanent, transformative effect on Europe. Looking at this, it suggests Eris in Aries could be quite remarkable and exciting!

It was the time of Da Vinci and Michelangelo, of Martin Luther and Henry VIII, of Columbus, de Soto, and Magellan (but also the savagery - some might say genocide - of Cortez and Pizarro). It included the rising into power of Queen Elizabeth I in 1558, and the first half of the Elizabethan Era. (The half that most fed the flourishing of immortal writing and art fell under Eris in Taurus.)

As it matured, this period became a time of majestic monarchs around the world - Henry VIII and Elizabeth I, the Khans in China, Ivan the Terrible in Russia, Islamic rulers spreading as far as Indonesia, just to name the most obvious. It was the era of Catherine de Medici.

Eris' time in the last sign of the zodiac ended with the last year of the Julian Calendar, for its successor, the Gregorian Calendar, was instituted the following year. With Eris in Taurus, Denmark built the world's first theme park in 1583 , and the era of Marlowe and Shakespeare began to unfold.