Eris

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Re: Eris

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:48 pm

I'm going to start deleting all posts in this thread is it refer to Eris rulers hips or exaltation. Without reading anything else in them.

As I said above, we can talk about this in 5-10-20 years when we actually know something substantial about the planet.

I said at least once above that I do not want this thread to turn into a rulership discussion
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Re: Eris

Post by Danica » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:57 pm

Let us take time actually observe, make notes and allow ourselves for conclusions based on experience - in this way, we're making sure that we don't slip out of the scientific method, into the same error that brought about the "tropical astrology" as phenomenon.
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Re: Eris

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:08 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:48 pm
I'm going to start deleting all posts in this thread is it refer to Eris rulers hips or exaltation. Without reading anything else in them.

As I said above, we can talk about this in 5-10-20 years when we actually know something substantial about the planet.

I said at least once above that I do not want this thread to turn into a rulership discussion
:applause:

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Re: Eris

Post by Soft Alpaca » Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:21 pm

Well as an Eris angular person I can say that I am certainly chaotic to say the least, I think this manifests as aiming through uncertainy -Compliance towards instability; cultural nature inclined towards the incomprehensible and taboo.

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Re: Eris

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:08 pm

Soft Alpaca wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:21 pm
Well as an Eris angular person I can say that I am certainly chaotic to say the least, I think this manifests as aiming through uncertainy -Compliance towards instability; cultural nature inclined towards the incomprehensible and taboo.
My working interpretation of foreground Eris in the birth chart is: Mischievous, curious, trickster, outlier, and disruptor: Naturally navigates the swarm of chaos more easily with practical advantage (but thus also leaves a wake of chaos, disrupting imposed orders and conditions, because they have little native resistance to disorder). Managing the incomprehensible, juggles undecided possibilities.
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Re: Eris

Post by Soft Alpaca » Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:13 pm

Sounds about right, there is something very un-jupiter about it that I think exists as well. I think that applying this to how I view my jupiter signs is important (I see this Eris energy disrupting the Jupiter/Sun radiance).

I think the best way for me to describe this (sorry for the vulgarity I mean not to offend anyone) but where as sagittarius is Compliance, Eris is Gaijin: an outsider, the foreigner.

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Re: Eris

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:14 pm

Soft Alpaca wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:13 pm
...where as sagittarius is Compliance, Eris is Gaijin: an outsider, the foreigner.
That's making it sound very Plutonian. So far as I understand Eris so far, it's more indifferent to the idea in the way that (say) viruses or birds or random DNA strands don't recognize borders.
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Re: Eris

Post by Soft Alpaca » Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:47 pm

I more so got the sense that Gaijin be used to say outsider as in someone who is there to sew chaos (where as to me Pluto never shows up to be a Gaijin in the first place). However I could see the confusion.

As for the reference to no borders that clicked. Aha Pluto-Eris Gemini doesn't believe in borders, where as Jupiter sagittarius believes in boundlessness. It's another overlap like quantity vs quality. As an Eris angular person, I don't have a lacking in believing in the death of borders (where as every other sagittarius person I have come along in my life has staunchly defended them, much like the construct of race etc.) Patriotism vs Matritisim is you will (love of self-country-quality;like a father/authority vs love of all-humanity-quantiy; like a child/mother).

Eris supports the death of Patriotism (mind you I'd never do it myself, but I wouldn't be upset if the country fell apart; because we let self made kings rule over us), likely because they shouldn't have been drawn to begin with. But then again perhaps maybe this is too Pluto as well...

See all of this actually exhausts me on a day to day level as well. I think I retreat into capricorn (as other sagittarius do things sometimes fundamentally different than me). Eris/Pluto oppose Sagittarius energy, Uranus does so to leo. I don't really have any moon/neptune to tone out my saturn/Mars the same way. Sometimes just putting peddle to the metal helps.

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Re: Eris

Post by Soft Alpaca » Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:21 pm

Something else is also getting at me, isn't Eris strife personified (which in a way reminds me of Libra, but Eris isn't witchy to like libra- nor is libra at it's core chaotic).

I'm having trouble visualizing Eris, separating her from Mars (I'm getting red vs magenta here). Chaos is very anti-tribal in nature I have a natural inclination to live on my own as well..

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Re: Eris

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:28 pm

This presumes the mythogy is valid. It often isn't. At least, we can't assume in advance that it will be (Planetary Jupiter is SO unlike the God Jupiter Giddess Venus isn't nearly as nice a person as planetary Venus. .) We need to observe the planet with as few preconceptions as possible, I think, and especially not presume thr mythology dictates the outcome.
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Re: Eris

Post by Danica » Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:30 pm

for the record, my current SSR (4/22/2020; Inglewood, CA) has:

Luna 29*15' Pis
Eris 28*57' Pis
Pluto 29*58' Sag

(and all three are engaged, within 60' orb, with natal Uranus)
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Re: Eris

Post by Soft Alpaca » Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:35 pm

Very well but discord fits her well, if anyone were to be as playful to start a war between husband's that I know it would be my gemini friends. I think that Eris+Jupiter angular is also going to be attributed partly in my bipolar nature. (If you take my angular planets by what you wrote and add Eris you get this): it pretty much hits the nail for some of what you chalked up as just my Vertex Uranus
..
"Warm, friendly, generous, shining their light on the world.Positive, optimistic, oriented to the good. Authoritative Mischievous, curious, trickster, outlier, and disruptor. Strongly individualistic, independent, going their own way. Needs freedom & breathing room (physical, intellectual) and frequent renewal"

I think this does sum me up better than a sign. Eris definitely changes my likeability. Also people sometimes I think see the Eris-Uranus energy exaggerating my Capricorn (If that makes sense) sometimes I literally will be calm and then go fly off the hinges burn the house down wild: and this is more personal than just my Mars-Venus aspect.

If it weren't for Eris+Uranus I think I'd have fit perfectly into the Sagittarius-Leo role, but if your right Jim; Aquarius-Gemini planets are there. I feel like I won't ever connect with the signs because of this.

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Re: Eris

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:57 pm

Soft Alpaca wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:35 pm
Very well but discord fits her well, if anyone were to be as playful to start a war between husband's that I know it would be my gemini friends
Just to underscore my last point: You are again relying on the mythology and presuming a connection.

"Discord" isn't even an obvious trait of the Mars-Eris people I know (except to those who particularly conflict with them). Some are quite gracious, even (based on other things in the chart, most likely). An occasional discordant politician, maybe. Among the angular Eris folks catalogued above, I'm not sure it's exactly the right word (most are disruptors, but not necessarily even disruptive in the usual sense - the disrupt, or interrupt, the flow of where things were flowing otherwise, perhaps.)
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Re: Eris

Post by Soft Alpaca » Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:38 am

So maybe I should offer some alternative vocabulary then.

I'd use words like
Reverse/divert current; alternate flow. Managing things on both AC and DC. Therefore creative, chaotic, and causes breakers to be blown; disrupt design (not geared towards or against "others health" specifically). Mischievous, curious, trickster. Manages the swarm- incomprehensiblity- (with) little native resistance to disorder. "Messy".

I added messy because I feel like it's how on Eris people often see and words directed at its energy and habits we form around it.

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Re: Eris

Post by Danica » Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:27 am

I am noticing a distinct element/characteristic of Playfulness - needs more observation and reflection, just putting it out here for the initial notes.
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Re: Eris

Post by Soft Alpaca » Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:40 am

I could see where Mischievous could be seen as playful, however I think Playful is more distinctly a Gemini word. I wouldn't at all describe myself as Playful, however I would go as far to use Frisky, Wily, Wild. I think there is a link between Gemini and Capricorn in the word wild (to some extent, Eris vs Mars)

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Re: Eris

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:17 am

Soft Alpaca wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:40 am
I wouldn't at all describe myself as Playful, however I would go as far to use Frisky, Wily, Wild. I think there is a link between Gemini and Capricorn in the word wild (to some extent, Eris vs Mars)
I've seen playful elements in the collective descriptions of Eris as well. Not everything is going to show in one person. I think trying to focus on one person in depth isn't as helpful as it might seem at first blush, certainly not in this kind of general thread.
Let's focus on the planet under discussion, not on individual people. Let's not dismiss things that don't apply to us as individuals so we don't miss anything about the planet.

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Re: Eris

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:57 am

Thanks, Jupe. Yes, what I would like from this thread is an examination of actual people with Eris active in various ways but especially on angles or in close hard aspect from luminaries, with a goal of identifying specific observed character / behavior traits they have - much as we did in the sign exploration threads.

Thanks again.
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Re: Eris

Post by Veronica » Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:17 pm

I miss Av

Both his luminaries and angle.
He is a pro at calling people on their chaos and setting them straight, at least thats what I have seen him do in my limited experience.

Im thinking about where Eris is....way way way way out in the icy cold of space spinning at almost the same rate as us but so so small a mass, and what types of nature would be there, before the miraculous conception in Pluto .
Its like playing pin the tail on the donkey where your blindfolded and spun around blindfolded and then expected to get it right?

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Re: Eris

Post by Soft Alpaca » Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:33 pm

You know the very nature of the game that you described is under Eris' realm...

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Re: Eris

Post by Soft Alpaca » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:24 am

I've also just noticed Eris-Jupiter types may be aware of burnouts, and (perhaps?) adapt accordingly, where as just Jupiter types definitely seem to have a cap (target) and sometimes crash and burn.

All of this is mundanely speaking of course because I can't observe this within the Natal.

This is speaking from myself verses other Jupiter angular students and co-workers who over exert themselves now (they never took any days off, never had time for this or that. They work 12-14 hour days). As for Jupiter folks crashing that's already evident in other studies.

Just looking now my nana (Virgo, Scorpio,Cancer) has Eris opposite of her Virgo Sun loosely conj mercury. It makes perfect sense that I inherited the bipolar genes from her and that I moved in with her. She has an angular Mars and Neptune (backing up her Scorpio-Cancer type). Right now she is undergoing years on back taxes, we have someone who is renting the land who is suing her because they want to take the house and farm from her (the lease was signed on may 4th probably around 1-4pm in2017, Newville PA Cumberland county, I believe her birthday is somewhere on this forum) my pap who knew he had stage 3-4 cancer signed it with her less than 2 weeks before his Death. My nan is a widow 2 times now, her other husband beat the living daylights out of her. She lost her older sister when she was a young adult as well.

And dig this my mom has Eris opposite of her (4)Virgo Mars,loose (4) trine her moon and semi square(1.5) her sun, and within 3 degrees of her vertex! (wouldn't be surprised if this moved closer mundanely).
I always chalked it up to her Scorpio-Aquarius with addictive Virgo Mars, but my mother went to rehab at 13 for drinking, she had me at 17. She described her self as the poster child for every teenage crisis; before the posters were ever made.

There you go Jim- Chaos is inherited like the mental illness in my family..

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Re: Eris

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:54 am

Thanks. That's useful input. One clarification, though: You wrote,
Soft Alpaca wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:24 am
This is speaking from myself verses other Jupiter angular students and co-workers who over exert themselves now (they never took any days off, never had time for this or that. They work 12-14 hour days). As for Jupiter folks crashing that's already evident in other studies.
Did you mean just Jupiter angular or (as you seemed to mean when you started your post) Jupiter-Eris aspects angular?
There you go Jim- Chaos is inherited like the mental illness in my family..
This recurring themes are indeed interesting. Thanks.
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Re: Eris

Post by Soft Alpaca » Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:50 am

They don't have angular Eris(where as I do). (I'm saying that burnouts from overworking are normal, Eris disrupts this normal; in my own case I make sure I don't overwork, but it could play out a little different in other Eris folks. Tbe main point is that Eris disrupts this burnout (common in my jupiter heavy industry).
Through all the hardship (Mars heavy with Mercury and Saturn) she faced for example, even my own mother now works for the federal government and is very healthy, she even just bought a home. She doesn't have a Jupiter Eris (natal) aspect but it hits on all three of her core-bodies and might be angular (vertex) on that.

Chaos in this to me is seeming Netural, almost androgynous in a sense, in the way that it can be disruptive but managed to manifest how the user chooses (if we are to say that when we go through the downs we eventually come out the other side). It's kind of like a coin if you will.

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Re: Eris

Post by Soft Alpaca » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:14 pm

Eventually I'd like to see an Angular Eris thread started where we could talk more specifically in this subject (I really like the Jupiter-Eris and Sun-Uranus angularity in my chart, it says a lot).

On another note do we have any specific examples of Eris interacting with angular luminaries (or maybe Mars) in Capricorn?(I know that this is oddly specific and not related to me at all, but I really have a hunch it will show us something).

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Re: Eris

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:21 pm

Soft Alpaca wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:14 pm
Eventually I'd like to see an Angular Eris thread started where we could talk more specifically in this subject
Go ahead and start one. Here is my preliminary proposed interpretation of Eris foreground:
Mischievous, curious, trickster, outlier, and disruptor: Naturally navigates the swarm of chaos more easily with practical advantage (but thus also leaves a wake of chaos, disrupting imposed orders and conditions, because they have little native resistance to disorder). Managing the incomprehensible, juggles undecided possibilities.
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Re: Eris

Post by Veronica » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:47 am

Jim you wrote

"There is a "translation of obscure languages, rendering things into comprehensible and accessible form" theme that I found with natal Moon-Eris aspects."

I think that Eris is of a Chimeran nature, or the fact that nature is Chimerian.

It is slowly becoming common knowledge that what we think we are is way to limited for the truth of the matter.

What is human in us is only a small part of a larger compliation of organelles living in mosiacs and symbiosis.

the the dna in the blood you draw from me right now may very well not match the dna in the blood you draw right now (a second later).


my composite being on a microscopic level is a strange hopefull monster.

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Re: Eris

Post by Soft Alpaca » Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:28 pm

Eris is the feminine version of this chimera nature, she is Lilith the mother of hydra! She is the birth of a monster (Mars!) If Eris were to rule anything (as seen in my my mother and 2 I'f not all 3 of my of my female best friends (best friends of all time list only Includes maybe 2-3 men if that)- all addictive sexual drug (alcohol) maddened rage, sexual abuse themes). However almost all females with Eris, unlike Mars males types, succeed; but they always succeed with pain! (No flawless martian victorious nature, aka "Navigating the unmanageable/incomprehensible").

Eris is therefore- in what I'm seeing- Eris' physical ruling Is the pain in child birth(?! though maybe this could be Sedna based off of what some of what Jim said) It's pain with an absolute reason! Aka the accomplishing the incomprehensible, - seducing the sublime, aka the egg to Plutos' seed[?] (Uranus is the aspect and process of childbirth from the universes perspective, Eris is from the mother (Mary or Lilith/Nyx?) and Adam (Mars) is the child , Eve (Venus) the wife...

If Sedna ruled anything btw I would have to guess it would rule the pleasure of childbirth (all if the drugs the body releases or no longer inhibits).. like the Eros relationship Taurus and Scorpio face but in a far more chaotic way..

Delete what you have to Jim- as the Eris angular people I know would say you won't offend me till you have a gun at my head.
Last edited by Soft Alpaca on Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:47 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Eris transiting natal Mars

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:48 pm

Today is a very interesting transiting Eris day. Yesterday was the exact 0°00' Eris square to my Mars and I didn't notice anything specific yesterday (not that I expect a same-day result on a slow transit), but today what seems to be the full effect is quite evident.

First... this is a really slow transit. Eris first moved into 1°00' orb of square my Mars in April 2013 and will last leave 1° orb in February 2027 - a 14-year transit. Between 2018 and 2023 it makes an exact hit 11 times. - This year, it's within 1° March 30 to November 14, but yesterday was the exact hit (with another on November 14).

The effect is quite simple to describe: There is enormous chaos (what I might have previously called a Mercury day on steroids) that is drawing from me two types of Mars involvement: Either (1) moving very rapidly, very aggressively into challenges, getting strong results fast and under great time pressure for no-warning problems; or (2) having to work not to lose my temper from the pressure, especially in managing situations with insufficient data (often interwoven complexity). This description would have fit any of several events that happened today if they came up alone, but mostly I've been juggling at least three at once.

In short: chaos (knotted data) in the environment engages and draws forth my Mars (in positive, negative, or "who can tell which" ways).
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Re: Eris

Post by Danica » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:24 pm

Tr Eris is 00*00’ oct my r Uranus today; and alongside this, tr Venus is conj r Eris (40’ s as I write this).
A rather beautiful day, until the moment (around noon) when I took a look into Novien synastry, not looked-into before, between me and a very beloved friend (N to N and N to rx, both ways), and upon seeing the degree of Saturn involvement, a wave of profound, pitch-intense pain came; I cried, aloud, for a time feeling ... deranged (in lack of a better word now) by the unbearable of this pain.
Took me about an hour and a half to regain the normal psychological condition.
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Re: Eris

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:41 pm

FWIW (and hoping I don't derail this Eris thread with stuff that should go elsewhere), I wouldn't fret too much about that if the objective facts of the relationship don't reflect it provided the standard natal-to-natal synastry is sound. For example, Marion and I have a Novien-to-Novien partile Mars-Saturn square which simply makes no sense compared to reality (and runs contrary to all the other indications, especially between the two radixes). - Of course, her Novien Mercury-Uranus to my Novien Moon-Mercury makes all the sense in the world so, hey, what can I say?

The last time I took a batch of relationships and checked Novien-related synastry, I gave to a (tentative: I may deny this in the future) conclusion that while Novien-to-Natal often had some stunning connections, I wasn't sure I could argue that Novien-to-Novien aspects were valid at all. (Which makes absolutely no sense: I can come up with three major reasons this makes no sense.) I'm not saying this is so, but at the very least it tells me that Novien-to-Novien aspects were not so compelling as to entirely define a relationship.
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Re: Eris

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:50 pm

As I remember, Saturn contacts are common between happily married couples. You take each other's weight. Or something. Or you worry about each other? It was Jung, I think.

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Re: Eris

Post by Veronica » Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:46 pm

Danica wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:24 pm
Tr Eris is 00*00’ oct my r Uranus today; and alongside this, tr Venus is conj r Eris (40’ s as I write this).
A rather beautiful day, until the moment (around noon) when I took a look into Novien synastry, not looked-into before, between me and a very beloved friend (N to N and N to rx, both ways), and upon seeing the degree of Saturn involvement, a wave of profound, pitch-intense pain came; I cried, aloud, for a time feeling ... deranged (in lack of a better word now) by the unbearable of this pain.
Took me about an hour and a half to regain the normal psychological condition.
I heard today that scientists have generated a visual image of the motion of a cluster of huge galaxies. The galaxies appear to be moving together as if in a dance responding to the motions of the others. It's such a beautiful image and blows the mind when thinking of the amount of real estate involved in that much space.

But no where in that writhing dance is Saturn.

Its here,
Around this wonderful sun
Doing its wonderful thing it does
Lending its slant to light
Helping life go on.
Like all of members of the family of heavenly bodies that we find ourself in close relationship with.
We couldn't be what we are with out them all. Everything.

I'm gonna be honest...
This whole..oh btw theres a new body we should be watching...
Holy wow ...
Between my own chart and progressions and returns and then add in my kids cycles and my dad's and my siblings and friends....
It is impossible to stay on top of who has what major event and who is experiencing something else....
And now I have to wonder about this ambiguous body of chaos.....
Yikes....

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Re: Eris

Post by Danica » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:19 pm

It’s N to rx, but none of it overrides the other, good stuff, taken in total, and looked into with priority by orb.
I blame my response on t Eris, fully :lol:
It’s at 00*00’ till Monday 10 pm, so we can say the day is still young, I guess... (luckily, t Venus will move away from r Eris in the meantime)
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Re: Eris

Post by By Jove » Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:03 pm

Soft Alpaca wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:28 pm
Eris is the feminine version of this chimera nature, she is Lilith the mother of hydra! She is the birth of a monster (Mars!) If Eris were to rule anything (as seen in my my mother and 2 I'f not all 3 of my of my female best friends (best friends of all time list only Includes maybe 2-3 men if that)- all addictive sexual drug (alcohol) maddened rage, sexual abuse themes). However almost all females with Eris, unlike Mars males types, succeed; but they always succeed with pain! (No flawless martian victorious nature, aka "Navigating the unmanageable/incomprehensible").

Eris is therefore- in what I'm seeing- Eris' physical ruling Is the pain in child birth(?! though maybe this could be Sedna based off of what some of what Jim said) It's pain with an absolute reason! Aka the accomplishing the incomprehensible, - seducing the sublime, aka the egg to Plutos' seed[?] (Uranus is the aspect and process of childbirth from the universes perspective, Eris is from the mother (Mary or Lilith/Nyx?) and Adam (Mars) is the child , Eve (Venus) the wife...

If Sedna ruled anything btw I would have to guess it would rule the pleasure of childbirth (all if the drugs the body releases or no longer inhibits).. like the Eros relationship Taurus and Scorpio face but in a far more chaotic way..

Delete what you have to Jim- as the Eris angular people I know would say you won't offend me till you have a gun at my head.
IDK. Mars was always messy/hairy/difficult/chaotic etc. Do you find any distinction between Eris male/female types or Mars female/male types?

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Re: Eris

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:38 pm

I don't find Eris types to be martial. This is another case where arguing planetary natures on the base of mythology takes you down wrong roads.

Typical traits of people with Eris on an angle or strongly aspecting a luminary seem to be some variation of: Mischievous, curious, trickster, outlier, and disruptor: Naturally navigates the swarm of chaos more easily with practical advantage (but thus also leaves a wake of chaos, disrupting imposed orders and conditions, because they have little native resistance to disorder). Managing the incomprehensible, juggles undecided possibilities.
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Re: Eris

Post by Dimitrios » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:45 am

Very interesting. I did not know anything about Eris, just discovered that i have a Eris-Venus opposition in my natal chart, almost exact. Eris in 8th house in Pisces - Venus in 2nd house in Virgo. Just noticed that i separated when transit Uranus was in close conjunct with natal Eris in 8th house.

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Re: Eris

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:09 pm

Dimitrios wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:45 am
Very interesting. I did not know anything about Eris, just discovered that i have a Eris-Venus opposition in my natal chart, almost exact. Eris in 8th house in Pisces - Venus in 2nd house in Virgo. Just noticed that i separated when transit Uranus was in close conjunct with natal Eris in 8th house.
Thanks. Was Uranus also opposite your Venus when that happened?
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Re: Eris

Post by Dimitrios » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:12 pm

Thanks. Was Uranus also opposite your Venus when that happened?
Yes. Natal Moon, Venus, Uranus and Pluto are in Virgo in 2nd house...bad luck or wrong choices, since then alone, like living in a vast desert.This "Eris-Uranus period" was very liberating and illuminating, transformed me totally - i think positively, but introduced me into a very long period with bad luck and deep loneliness. Transiting Jupiter conjuncting all these planets 1-2 years later did not help me at all, loneliness and depression continue till now.

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Venus-Eris

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat May 01, 2021 12:52 pm

I want to revisit Venus-Eris aspects, since this is the only major Eris involvement for which I don't even have a provisional interpretation. It's difficult to separate Eris on first impression from other outer planets with Venus - especially Uranus and Pluto - even though I have a clear distinction in my own mind. (Pluto and Eris are exactly opposites of each other in principle, even though they seem much alike in outcome, since the same behavior can come from opposite motives.)

One road I'm following: I recently have settled on the idea that Anais Nin is one of the most fruitful, valuable examples of Venus-Eris (partile conjunction, neither foreground nor deeply background so indifferent to the strength of either of them individually). I'll loop back to this.

Other planets (including, most interestingly and most clearly, Mercury) have shown specific traits of promiscuity when connected to Eris. I don't mean simply what moralists regard as "sexual looseness" but - at least with Mercury-Eris - an element of curiosity, an embracing of the idea of multiplicity ("infinite points" managed at once, more than the idea of diversity or variety). When I look at personal and public examples of Venus-Eris close hard aspects, I find that a lot of them (but by no means all of them) have something similar that ties more directly to Venus.

Specifically, the connection of Venus to promiscuity is something often more private than the (more easily visible) Mercury-Eris form. In fact, privacy may be part of it (take Nin as a strong example), or this may only be a consequence of the need for privacy with such matters in existing society. With "disruption" being a common Eris word, it seems Venus-Eris people are more willing to be disruptors, with a lot of examples in my files of people unbothered by a partner's infidelity. (I don't have a lot of cases where they were 'unfaithful' themselves, but many where they were willing to have long-term covert involvement with others who were committed and theoretically inaccessible.) - I need to emphasize, though, that I have probably as many cases where there is no evidence of this kind of behavior (not that it tends to leave evidence lying around), and also that this attitude is not unique to Venus-Eris - but in the cases at hand it is extremely clear, simple, precise, and accurate. (A side effect is that Venus-Eris seems entirely unjudging of the other person's choices, though they are capable of being highly discriminating on their own and act within their own moral rules).

There is a flavor (harder to pin down and be clear about) of Nin's theme of following one's desires wherever they led. There is a clear, measurable pattern in cases where I have first-hand or reliable second-hand knowledge that they express their sexuality with unusual freedom when they are sexually involved (i.e., not indiscriminate about partners and not hornier per se or more aggressive than others, but, when actually involved in a sexual act they are no-holds-barred, no holding back; the women are routinely multiply orgasmic, for example).

It's important to distinguish these behaviors from similar ones common to Venus-Uranus and Venus-Pluto. Uranus' primary motive is to be free and unleashed, so Venus-Uranus behaviors arise from "don't tell me I can't, don't hold me back, don't try to restrict me." Pluto's primary motive is being exempt from generalization or categorization, which takes the real-life form of needing to evade others' arbitrary standards, or to evade the idea that there is some kind of binding rule about a matter. Viewed superficially, these two often look similar, though their motives are quite distinct.

How does Venus-Eris contrast with these? I may not have found that language yet, though it isn't a need for freedom in the Uranian sense or exemption from categorization in the Pluto sense. In fact, it's probably the opposite of the latter, because my basic chaos idea of Eris centers on the simultaneity of all categories. (This isn't the same as "universalism" in the Aquarian sense, exactly, which, again, is mostly a Uranian "don't draw boundaries." Universalism implies one thing with no internal boundaries, while Eris is infinite distinctions but all held simultaneously in awareness.)

So, when anything resembling promiscuity shows with Venus-Eris, it must be arising from seeing a bigger picture (which is a nice Eris phrase I haven't used before, but fits my basic theme): a perception that any particular involvement a person has is just one detail in an infinitely vast array ("infinite" strictly in the mathematical sense merging possibility and actuality).

"No judgment" might be a concept here. In many behaviors, at least, Venus-Eris is non-judging of others' choices. I think this must come naturally from a perspective of the simultaneity of all categories, i.e., all choices are morally equal.
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Re: Venus-Eris

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat May 01, 2021 1:39 pm

Anais Nin is an interesting study in this regard. Her initial sexual reticence surrendering to an incessant stream of lovers of multiple varieties, learning to live her own desires and dreams, her long-term quiet bigamy, her incest, and the deep, obscuring privacy in which she (I'm sure necessarily) hid all of this actualize many of these points.

With all of that, there is an honest, even extreme intimacy in her writing. Even when she veils or misrepresents details, she is self-disclosing. More openly than most people, she is disclosing herself - her inner, intimate self - in every act.

Some of her language about her sexuality (which, though, is much narrower than what the full telling of her stories discloses):
I like extravagance [including] sexuality which bursts the thermometers.
[On her first exposure to erotic novels as a married adult:] One by one, I read these books, which were completely new to me... They overwhelmed me. I was innocent before I read them, but by the time I had read them all, there was nothing I did not know about sexual exploits... I had my degree in erotic lore.
I want to live darkly and richly in my femaleness. I want a man lying over me, always over me. His will, his pleasure, his desire, his life, his work, his sexuality the touchstone, the command, my pivot. I don’t mind working, holding my ground intellectually, artistically; but as a woman, oh, God, as a woman I want to be dominated. I don’t mind being told to stand on my own feet, not to cling, be all that I am capable of doing, but I am going to be pursued, {bonked}, possessed by the will of a male at his time, his bidding.
I hate men who are afraid of women's strength.
The truly faithless one is the one who makes love to only a fraction of you. And denies the rest.
Only the united beat of sex and heart together can create ecstasy.
Reality doesn't impress me. I only believe in intoxication, in ecstasy, and when ordinary life shackles me, I escape, one way or another.
Whenever you do something that is not aligned with the yearning of your soul - you create suffering.
If I love you it means we share the same fantasies, the same madnesses.
I reserve the right to love many different people at once, and to change my prince often.
And maybe the most perfect Venus-Eris quote:
In chaos, there is fertility.
My observation of "no judgement' of others' choices above is reinforced in tracking down Nin in her own words and those of her biographers. One academic (Ruth Charnock) wrote of "Nin’s refusal to occupy a position of judgment, shame or condemnation." This idea of shamelessness regarding sex summarizes much of what I observed immediately above (and says it more concisely).

BTW this makes me wonder if shameless might be a more general word for Eris, as part of a theme of the simultaneous, equal persistence of all possibility, all points infinite space coexisting independent of judgment and available for choice.
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Re: Venus-Eris

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat May 01, 2021 2:51 pm

A few final observations for now...

I'm not sure what the exact link is... but it seems to me that there are more infamous murderers with this aspect than many other astrological categories. The ones in front of me are Bruno Hauptman, Ian Brady, William Heirens, Winnie Ruth Judd, James Huberty, and Angelo Buono, to which I suppose we can add Thomas Mooney.

There are also some noteworthy victims of abuse or worse, such as Nicole Brown Simpson and Rodney King. However, this might be an observation based on two few data points, for it is certainly not typical of Venus-Eris as a whole (e.g., it's quite the opposite of Wayne Dyer).

There are a lot of other Venus-Eris figures known for (what society calls) sexual excesses. When these are men, they get away with it for a long time as "just being men," while women are judged sooner and more acutely. Consider, for example, Roger Ailes vs. Frida Kahlo (aside from a very long list of powerful political figures, both male and female).
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Re: Eris

Post by James Condor » Sat May 01, 2021 6:59 pm

I have n Sun Square nEris 3’50. Maybe foreground AC, too.

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Re: Eris

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat May 01, 2021 7:36 pm

James Condor wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 6:59 pm
I have n Sun Square nEris 3’50. Maybe foreground AC, too.
Yes, a Class 2 Sun-Eris square.

But Eris isn't foreground. Because it is 18°32' below the ecliptic, it rises much later than it's degree. Your Eris is actually 13°26' below Ascendant.

OTOH, the mundane calculation makes the Sun-Eris stronger: Because Sun is in the middle of the 10th house and Eris is roughly in the middle of the 1st house, your have a mundane Sun-Eris square within 1°50'.
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Re: Eris

Post by James Condor » Sat May 01, 2021 8:14 pm

Cool. Maybe I fit the description.

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Re: Eris

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat May 01, 2021 8:15 pm

James Condor wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 8:14 pm
Cool. Maybe I fit the description.
My trial interpretation for Sun-Eris aspects is: A disruptor to the established order and conditions (curious, trickster, mischievous): Open to outlier possibilities. Navigates chaos with practical advantage (leaving a wake of chaos: has little native resistance to disorder).
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Re: Eris

Post by Veronica » Sun May 02, 2021 5:53 am

Someone once asked...
"Have you no Shame?"
And I laughed and replied
"Why would I want any of that!"

That was a meme a friend shared with me

My Venus is widely square Eris and Eris is opposite my Uranus.
What I think may have been a major issue in my 3 long term relationships is that I am privately extremely promiscuous/ sexual / open, and that was taken/ interpreted that I am indiscriminate and would have any type of sex with just about anything and that I have no control of my sexual urges.
But it was more in line with, I felt safe and comfortable being sexual with them and thus my inhibitions were down and I had a willingness to be sexually playful and receptive to my consort because I felt secure that it was private and special between us.

When I lost that safe feeling with each of them....when I felt like they were trying to shame me for my pleasures.
Well, that was it.
When I felt like they were telling everyone about having sex with me and all the private details I couldn't trust them anymore with my vulnerability/sex. ( I know my first boyfriend did talk as well as my exhusband, and I deeply feel that the topic of sex with me came outta the mouths of several of Craig's friends).

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Re: Eris

Post by James Condor » Sun May 02, 2021 7:50 am

Ok. Well, I am calm under pressure and pretty risk tolerant. A little shameless. I am very curious, will annoy people with my thirst for knowledge, and can be, not lately, just plain ignorant of others boundaries. I can easily get into mischief but I don’t prefer trouble.

But all in all I attract eccentricity. I am an outlier. Nothing is taboo. Nothing is right and wrong, besides, that I don’t want to be a labeled bad or I don’t want to be in trouble by law or any group. I often don’t think of consequences, unless I slow down and think, which is sorta paralyzing and safe. I lack healthy boundaries. I also process my environment quickly so I think I’m making good decisions.

I’m tying to confirm the aspect without overlapping other natal aspects, and foreground planets- n Moon-Mercury, n Venus-Uranus, nMoon-Neptune, nMars-Neptune, nMars-Pluto and n Sun-Saturn-Pluto.

I will hopefully see what comes out of it

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Re: Eris

Post by Veronica » Sun May 02, 2021 9:00 am

I dont think you lack healthy boundaries at all.
From what I see, you have very extremely unique strong and healthy boundaries, yet they are far past the social norm so it seems as if you dont have a line to cross.
I'm pretty sure I have hit that line at least once.

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Re: Eris

Post by James Condor » Wed May 05, 2021 5:27 pm

Veronica wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:00 am
I dont think you lack healthy boundaries at all.
From what I see, you have very extremely unique strong and healthy boundaries, yet they are far past the social norm so it seems as if you dont have a line to cross.
I'm pretty sure I have hit that line at least once.
I appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt. You have an interesting, creative, organic, positive and assumptions take on my situation. I relate to what you said to some extent.

But, basically I need to work on forming myself. This includes establishing better, more assertive, honest, direct communication with myself and others. I include in this, being more open in telling people how I feel right away. So I need to be more aware of want I want so that I can communicate to myself too.
Socially, I want to maturely and respectfully voice my stance in the moment, but not at any and all costs. I need the confidence to be prepared to properly handle my internal reactions and any external reaction.
Basically, I want to assert more, some form of voice for myself in order to establish myself differently.
I am used to thinking, weighing thoughts, options, decisions, and though this is okay, I see another perspective and want another perspective. But that perspective still has to be made, by me.

By being more assertive in communication, I am doing myself a favor and everyone else. I figure, I can learn a new skill, much like meditation. This cognitive self therapy would over time get me used dealing with differences and issues. Both personal and social. There is a certain freedom to the structure of it. I will eventually save time too. I would get better at knowing myself and others to the point of being more efficient. I would be living more balanced and not so much in my head.

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Re: Eris

Post by FlorencedeZ. » Thu May 06, 2021 1:36 am

Very interesting to read about Anais Nin Venus conjunct Eris Jim.
How do you see close dynamic natal aspects of Saturn-Eris?
Both my mum and brother have partile conjuctions and when chaos arrives the lid gets tightened so to speak, nothing is allowed to break loose and things have to be kept in control.

I understand that these aspects are to be seen in the whole picture of a chart, maybe it will add a little bit of value to Eris observations nevertheless.

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