Eris

[SteveS]

For the last few months I have been doing testing with Sidereal Astrology techniques with well researched first-time-trade-future charts from Susan Abbott Gidel’s book “Trading in Sync With Commodities” , and have been encouraged by only looking at “outstanding incident” SSRs & SLRs charts.

I have just now gotten around this morning to testing her “mother” chart of all futures market with the Cash Standard & Poor’s 500 Index:
March 4, 1957, 10:00 AM, New York.

I am going to start a new topic thread on this chart in the mundane section later. But, my first test with Eris in markets came about this way: I ask myself what has been the worst chaotic period in the S&P 500 history since 1957 with this "mother" chart? That is an easy question to answer: Beginning in March 2020 the markets crashed in by far the most chaotic time period ever since 1957, the Covid Panic. Below is a link to this chart’s “outstanding incident” March 2020 market crash with the Covid Panic, only showing the two ANGULAR "outstanding incident" aspects---very-very malefic!!!

https://ibb.co/BPLbkPF

Please note the two “outstanding incident” angular aspects:
Pluto 29,19 Sag partile 90 Eris 28,27 PI
Saturn 03,30 Cap 1,05 90 Venus 04,35 Ari
Let there be no doubt Venus in a market chart symbolizes the relationships of money to the market in question.

Also, very important to note: Natal Eris 14,24 PI is partile conjunct 2020 SSR S&P 500 MC 14,29 PI, for “How does this Natal react” to the very malefic symbolism in the S&P’s 2020 SSR??? Obviously in a vey “chaotic” manner. Very interesting to my market mind with an “outstanding incident” March 2020 SSR for this “mother “chart of the S&P 500 Cash Index.

[sidus_illuminans]

I wanted to contribute some patterns I have noticed regarding transiting Eris aspecting natal planets in my chart.

Transiting Eris formed a partile square to my natal Neptune for most of the period spanning June 2005 to April 2017. Most of that period was chaotic and filled with depressing events. 2009-2010 lost mother, grandfather, grandmother, family dog, cat, among other events.
My transiting aspects for my mom's death:
Neptune Conjunct Gonggong 0° 8'
Eris Square Neptune 0° 22'
Jupiter Square Pluto 0° 29'
Neptune Square Pluto 0° 49'
Venus Square Mercury 0° 41'
Quaoar Conjunction Moon 0° 56'

However, I dont remember 2014 or 2015 being very bad despite the Eris Square Neptune transit remaining strong, even reaching 0°0 at least once in 2014. I was in college doing very well, with minimal issues.

Eris has remained in a partile square to my Uranus since mid 2017. Finished more college during this time, some struggle. Have gone through several powerful transformations so far. Felt like awakenings. Several important spiritual events on different dates occurred for me while Eris Square Uranus was less than 0°12'.

[Mike V]

Thank you for sharing that. I should probably go back and check large events in my past too.

It's also worth noting that you had a close square by Solar Arc Pluto to natal Venus during that 2009-2010 period.

As soon as you said there were multiple deaths, that was the first thing I thought to check for - I've seen that specific Solar Arc lead to death of loved ones (including animals) every time I have seen it. The aspect was exact around early August 2009, but was within 1 degree from about July 2008 to about September 2010.

[SteveS]

Thanks sidus for sharing.

[SteveS]

Testing Eris here for “chaotic” market conditions within NYSE July 26 SLR:
r. NYSE Eris 02,04 Cap
SLR Zenith 00,06 Cap

[SteveS]

After studying New York’s 1792 Capsolar which Jim discovered yesterday, IMO, I feel like angular ERIS in the Mundo 1792 Capsolar definitely symbolized “Chaotic” ‘rampant speculation’ which happened in the young banking system of the United States with the Panic of 1792.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1792

Mundo 1792 New York Capsolar:

https://ibb.co/c8f3Wdc

This is the finest mundane example I have seen of Eris associated with the work of Jim (great work Jim) in this topic thread symbolizing possible “chaotic” situations when angular in mundo charts. What we are actually seeing with this mundo Capsolar is a Paran formation of Jupiter-Neptune with Eris. Ebertin in his book COSI writes for one of the main “Principle” for Jupiter-Neptune:

Speculation

So, The Paran of Jupiter-Neptune with Eris manifested “rampant speculation” so “chaotic” it timed the Panic of 1792 with New York's 1792 Capsolar. Mercury was in the mix of this Paran formation. This huge chaotic rampant speculative crises was the main event for the USA in 1792, which ultimately led to founding of the NYSE on May 17 1792.

I have verified when Eris was partile 180 my Natal Mercury it timed the worst “chaotic” business crises in my entire life. I am thinking if I could remember the exact day when this chaotic business crises began in my life, I would find an “outstanding incident” SLR or DSLR with t Eris and my Natal Mercury.

[Sharla]

Afghanistan's Natal: 22nd December 2001, 13.12pm, Kabul. Eris is the most foreground planet.

Pl Longitude Lat Speed RA Decl Azi Alt ML PVL Ang G
Mo 0Pi15' 8" 5S17 +11°53' 357°32' 6S50 109°10' +14°36' 4°53' 344°35' 48%
Su 5Sg48'11" 0S 0 + 1° 1' 270°37' 23S26 200°55' +29° 1' 27°24' 237°14' 1% b
Me 15Sg35'44" 2S 8 + 1°35' 281°27' 25S10 189°27' +29°41' 29°20' 253°56' 44%
Ve 0Sg16'13" 0S 1 + 1°16' 264°35' 23S22 206°48' +27° 5' 24°32' 228°36' 9% b
Ma 15Aq 3'46" 0S54 +43'55" 341°43' 8S43 121°43' +25° 6' 13°50' 331° 9' 0% b
Ju 17Ge11'37" 0S 1 - 7'51" 103° 0' 22N53 8°11' -32° 8' 211°52' 77°14' 62%
Sa 15Ta13'36" 1S50 - 4'26" 68°38' 20N 8 42°40' -22°23' 196°50' 31°16' 39%
Ur 27Cp16'26" 0S42 + 2'27" 324°38' 14S50 140°47' +30°56' 24°54' 316°32' 12% b
Ne 12Cp21'37" 0N 6 + 1'55" 309°30' 18S23 158° 7' +34° 5' 32° 7' 298°51' 43%
Pl 20Sc55'12" 9N46 + 2'15" 255°31' 12S58 221°15' +32° 2' 25°12' 223°30' 18% b
Er 24Pi18'57" 15S16 - 0'10" 23°22' 6S40 93°54' - 6° 7' 359°35' 6° 8' 100% E

[SteveS]

Sharla, from my recent research using Jim’s work on Eris, I am beginning to understand Eris can be a hugely important factor in scopes. It has many times explained to me what a scope without using the symbolism of Eris did not explain to me. Thanks for sharing your observations. Mundo Eris is in the “foreground” of Kabul Afghanistan ASC at 05,59 orb.

[Jim Eshelman]

Mundo Eris is in the “foreground” of Kabul Afghanistan ASC at 05,59 orb.

From her table I can see that it is square MC within a few minutes. (I haven't rerun the chart to get MC longitude, but it has to be within a few minutes.)

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

From her table I can see that it is square MC within a few minutes. (I haven't rerun the chart to get MC longitude, but it has to be within a few minutes.)

This would cerainly explain all the Eris "chaos" for this country. And that partile Mars-Saturn 90 with Saturn at 15 Taurus.

[Arena]

Where does this interpretation about Eris being malefic or chaotic come from? Is there a source in here that I missed?

I found this description on masteringthezodiac.com:

The Mythology of Eris
Golden Apple
To comprehend Eris's role in astrology, we must delve into the mythology of the Greek goddess Eris, known for her penchant for stirring up trouble. It was Eris who, not invited to a divine wedding, rolled a golden apple inscribed with 'to the fairest' among the gods, sparking a vanity-fueled dispute that ultimately led to the Trojan War. This myth encapsulates the essence of Eris in astrology: a catalyst for events that bring about transformation through turmoil.

In exploring the depths of Eris's mythological roots, we find that she was not just a goddess of discord but also the sister of Ares, the god of war. This familial connection offers profound insight into the nature of Eris's influence in astrology. Being Ares' sister, Eris embodies a combative spirit, albeit one that operates on the psychological or strategic plane rather than the straightforward aggression of Ares. Her actions in mythology—provoking the Trojan War through cunning rather than brute force—highlight a capacity for causing significant shifts in human affairs through subtlety and the sowing of seeds of discord. This aspect of her mythology provides valuable insight into understanding the complex, often indirect ways in which Eris can influence personal and collective narratives.

[Jim Eshelman]

I try to avoid mythology as a basis for interpretation of planets, other than to get my mind whirling in the first place. The keyword chaos is what most presents itself.

But, besides the popular use of the word chaos, I especially mean it in a very technical way as an immeasurable and unmanageable number of data points that normal cognitive processes fail before. In this sense, it's the precise complement of Pluto: Pluto is the single isolated non-dimensional point in a space of theoretically infinite number of points. Eris is the space of theoretically infinite number of points itself.

Eris manifestations then tend to show either in the confrontation of the unmanageable complexity or (especially in natal expressions) as unusual native ability to navigate chaos.

[SteveS]

IMO, we need native chart examples where Eris is mundo partile conjunct a primary angle to ask specific questions. I only know of one member on this forum with this situation and would need to get her permission for her to discuss, but I have my doubts she would want to discuss in an open forum.

I see a mundane "outstanding incident" case coming up with Eris involved which I wanting to test, and will post when the "outstanding incident" SLR arrives, but even then if a hit--it is only one mundane case.

[Jim Eshelman]

Though not partile, you may recall that I have Eris 3°26' above Descendant, with Moon 3°15' below - my only two angular planets (with Moon/Eris 6' from the angle).

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

Though not partile, you may recall that I have Eris 3°26' above Descendant, with Moon 3°15' below - my only two angular planets (with Moon/Eris 6' from the angle).

Can you relate this to a chaotic major episode in your life with a close female relationship? If so, would you consider this a major Eris event looking at your life?

The native whose life I wanted to discuss with the native on the forum has mundo Eris 00,48 cnj DS and mundo Pl 02,10 cnj AS. By what I understand the native's life has been thrown into a chaotic stunning/shocking situation by certain circumstances. Defintely a chaotic situation which has absorbed the native's psyche.

[Jim Eshelman]

Can you relate this to a chaotic major episode in your life with a close female relationship? If so, would you consider this a major Eris event looking at your life?

I don't think of natal aspects so much in terms of events as of character. I'm not sure that my "event with a close female relationship" or much more or less chaotic than anyone else's

I'm certainly one of the data points I relied on in writing my "working definitions" for Eris angular and in aspect (not the only person, of course). My paragraph (based on observing people) of Eris angular natally is;

Mischievous, curious, trickster, outlier, and disruptor: Naturally navigates the swarm of chaos more easily with practical advantage (but thus also leaves a wake of chaos, disrupting imposed orders and conditions, because they have little native resistance to disorder). Managing the incomprehensible, juggles undecided possibilities.

(Moon-Eris is pretty similar.)

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

I don't think of natal aspects so much in terms of events as of character.

I think of em as both. The older I get I can look back over my life with my natal and see the main events which revolved around certain key factors in my natal which profoundly affected my psyche. How would you delineate the character of someone who was born with a partile cnj Eris to DS and Pl 2 degree cnj AS?

[Arena]

Steve, do you know if this person was deeply transformed by the chaos? I see Pluto as deeply transformational. Is Pluto aspected by another planet as well. That would matter.

[Jim Eshelman]

How would you delineate the character of someone who was born with a partile cnj Eris to DS and Pl 2 degree cnj AS?

Let's start with the individual pieces (which, however, we're taking out of context of the rest of the chart, which makes a big difference).

Mischievous, curious, trickster, outlier, and disruptor: Naturally navigates the swarm of chaos more easily with practical advantage (but thus also leaves a wake of chaos, disrupting imposed orders and conditions, because they have little native resistance to disorder). Managing the incomprehensible, juggles undecided possibilities.

Need to live by their own rules (not others’ rules or conventions). Social outsider (enjoys solitude), resists reflexively conforming to herd expectations (unique, eccentric, odd). Respectful of people (not systems). Kind, unthreatening, guileless (only rarely antisocial); innocent without naivete. Deeply affected by cruelty or injustice. Spiritually inquiring, questioning. Unrushed in emotional commitment. (If severely afflicted: cruel, unfeeling, inhuman.)

There have been too few cases to come up with an observation-based opinion about Pluto-Eris natal aspects (though we've seen plenty of effect the last several years of transiting Pluto-Eris combinations, which are surely much different).

There are a lot of ways to blend the above, all of which need to express through the primary flavor of luminary signs and the other dynamic factors of the chart (particularly the rest of the balance of foreground planets). Broadly, though, it would be something like: A person almost naively indifferent to the elements of chaos in the environment - able to navigate them unthinkingly better than others can do with great focus - and therefore inadvertently leaving a trail of chaos in her wake (unpredictably stirring unpredictable upsets). Except... with Pluto there is that deep sense of indifference to or forcible rejection of others' rules and expectations. This would seem to turn it into: "Hey, I don't mean anything malicious about this but isn't it cool all the upset and destabilizing the world and your lives that I get to see and, P.S. {bonk} all of you if this bothers you."

[SteveS]

Thanks Jim.

[Jim Eshelman]

I've been thinking about fractals a lot this week, initially as a way of talking about Noviens (and, in principle, any harmonic charts). In the same way that the multidisciplinary topic of symmetry exactly explains midpoints, fractalization seems to portray the self-similarity at any scale topic of the zodiac within the zodiac (within the zodiac within the zodiac...).

That part is a topic for somewhere else.

But the reason I'm mentioning it here is that - along the way - I learned that fractals are tightly linked to chaos theory! This is a little hard to grasp because their basic nature is outside the bounds of geometry as most people know it, but it's worth noting that the link is there: Just possibly this will provide a mental space for additional analogies to model our experience of Eris in operation. (Or, of course, maybe not.)

For those who want to dig further (everyone else can stop reading here): Most people are only familiar with fractals in Mandelbrot patterns - the really cool "descending into infinite depths and uncovering the same forms as the form they are within" kind of computer graphics. Fractals are a far more diverse and complex subject - so much so that (tell me this doesn't resemble Eris!) mathematicians and other scientists mostly agree not to define them too precisely, having not found agreeable language that captures what they are in all cases.

But you might usefully understand that fractals are geometric forms that scale (shrink or grow) in non-integer (essentially non whole number) dimensions. What that means is: If you triple the size of a two-dimensional object like a square, it's area will increase by 3 x the number of dimensions - 3 x 2 - or six-fold. If you triple the size of a three-dimensional object like a cube (a square in three dimensions), it's volume will increase by 3 x the number of dimensions - 3 x 3 this time - or 27-fold. But fractals are shapes of non-integer dimensions, that scale (shrink or grow) in non-whole number amounts. - Don't feel bad if you suddenly have no picture of what that means, because it isn't readily picturable. Boundaries of fractals are lines that move across a non-integer-dimension surface (meaning, for example, that their linearity simply can't be represented fully in either two dimensions - a flat surface - or three dimensions - space as we familiarly know it - or even four dimensions - space-time taken together. The boundary moves across a surface of some number of dimensions between these numbers.

Here's the punch line: The geometric descriptions of most chaotic process are fractals, or at least partly shaped by fractals. The simple conclusion is that the two mathematical theories are inherently connected, at least somewhat part of each other. Thus, the concepts or metaphors of fractals may be useful in organizing our understanding of a planet seemingly linked to chaotic processes.

My phrase "useful in organizing our understanding" is itself interesting. The way that fractals appear in relation to the geometric modeling of chaos processes is either as an attractor or as defining boundaries between pools of attraction. Despite their (in the casual, popular sense) chaotic and disordered appearances, chaos processes pool and attract (collate) other chaotic processes that pool with them. This is mind-blowing stuff to me because I immediately recognize that our brains work in exactly this way with chaos swarms. For example, if you have too much data (too complex an array of known facts) to make sense of on their face - like the individual elements of a horoscope - the first thing the brain starts to do is collate similarities and polarities. I don't know, therefore, whether chaos processes actually pool or whether that is simply how the human mind is capable of precipitating a useful type of order from them as it manages increasing intensities of complexity.

I've been writing about this stuff for a couple of years (as tactics of astrological synthesis) without being aware of mathematical models that describe and work with the same sort of thing.

In any case, that's my innovation to Eris theory for today.


PS - We don't have a birth time for Benoit Mandelbrot, who was born November 20, 1924. Without a time there is nothing that highlights Eris in his chart. I did have a good laugh, though, noting that this Scorpio-Leo mathematician is known for a theory of roughness (Scorpio) and theory of self-similarity (Leo).