Eris

[Jim Eshelman]

(Nov 24, 2013)

I've been watching Eris for about a year now. Although initially I saw some patterns and possible meanings, the process of watching day by day - including return charts and, especially, day-to-day transits - has left me doubting that I saw anything authentic.

Nonetheless, I'll use this thread to download my notes so that I can delete them elsewhere and be done with the subject for the foreseeable future.

[Jim Eshelman]

I just ran through over a dozen of the most important dates in my life. None of them had any planet within a degree of conjunct, opposite, or square my natal Eris.

Adding tracking as aspects occur:

1/14/13 - t. ME -90- s. ERI
Awoke (near the hour this was exact) to find a kind of chaos on one of my forums. Discussion was wild, progressive, spinning into what felt like rockslide risks, and I rather fiercely jumped in to wrangle with it. Continued most of the day.

1/7/13 - t. JU -45- s. ERI
I think this was the extensive clearing and reordering of things a few hours before this was exact: something along the lines of "resolving chaos.

1/25/13 - t. MA -45- r. ERI
Coworker (who normally doesn't bother me) was invasive, disruptive, making it hard to concentrate on what I was doing. Very aggravating for a while.

2/25/13 - t. SU -45- s. ERI
Chaos in the air! Swirling juggling acts of scheduling rearrangements involving numerous VIP parties. (Notice how SSR Eris seems to refer to "chaos in the environment." It's quite different from the internal chaos of r. Eris.)

3/24/13 - t. ME -45- s. ERI
Morning of restoring servers etc. at CC (after annual building power-down). One power strip went out, causing the SAN switch not to come up, and it took a while to find this. "Chaos" is too strong, but I needed to sort through a lot of data and possibilities to figure out what went wrong and then fix it. (ME-ERI was exact while this was happening.)

3/24/13 - t. MA -0- r. ERI
(Same day as the server issue above, but peaking a few hours later when I was on my way home. Not sure exactly what this meant; and notice that r. ERI can be different from s. ERI. My body was strained, negligible sleep, I was pulling together a speech speech, but nothing distinctive comes to mind.)

[Jim Eshelman]

Eris has made the following conjunctions, oppositions, and squares to the USA Sun or Moon:

Sun - opposite Jan 29, 1781 thru Nov 6, 1782 (5 aspects)

Moon - conjunct Mar 28, 1836 thru Dec 15, 1838 (aspects)

Sun - square June 1, 1984 thru Feb 4, 1989
Second Reagan term, roughly (carrying into Bush slightly)
Iran-Contra

[Jim Eshelman]

LBJ for JFK's assassination / becoming President
t. Eris conjunct r. Saturn 0°09', but also t. Jupiter conj. r. Saturn 0°05'

1/31/13 - t. ERI -90- r. MC
A friend: Birth of son he is adopting. 23' ap.

1/31/13 - t. ERI -180- r. UR
His wife: Birth of son she is adopting. 40' ap.

4/8/13 - t. ERI -0- s. ERI
Gave lecture at Venice bookstore and we were taken by surprise by the setup - no separation from the main store, small space, lots of distractions, no podium, just a few chairs to sit and converse. I was atypically thrown, felt I had a hard time getting traction on the talk until about halfway through. Was having bad allergic reactions (skin flaring up), so took a Benadryl soon before starting and this probably contributed to the effect. - My first impression was that this wasn't enough "chaos" to count for the transit, though, on reflection, I realized that I an never thrown giving a talk in almost any circumstances.

[Jim Eshelman]

1/6/13 - SNQ2 - t. Eris on IC. (Concurrently, t. ME -90- r. ERI, with t. JU a day short of -45- s. ERI.)
Unclear about this, since we're still only guessing on what is relevant. One thing of notice is that, the day before, under a Sedna quotidian, I completed my chapter [for Pearls of Wisdom] on Nuit, and under the Eris crossing I focussed mostly on Hadit, and completed that and the RHK sections (intro chapter for new book). Generally got a lot of writing done (including much on UFOs, True Will, and other topics on the forum) and posted notice of completion of the "Gods of Thelema" chapter on Facebook fan page.
NB - There is a "translation of obscure languages, rendering things into comprehensible and accessible form" theme that I found with natal Moon-Eris aspects. This is a really close match to what I did in writing about the Thelemic pantheon - rendering difficult, obscure ideas into accessible, comprehensible form.

1/25/13 - SNQ2 - t. ERI sq. Asc, t. ME-SA sq. MC
1/25/13 - SQ - r. ERI sq. MC, r. SED on WP, r. NE on EP
"Chaos in the environment" might be a fair statement. A co-worker who normally doesn't bother e was non-stop talking, invading, derailing what I was working on, etc.

[Jim Eshelman]

Of the 10 most important women in my life, my natal Eris makes a partile conjunction, opposition, or square with only two of them: the Venus of one of the least important of them, and the Mars of one of the most important. It is within two degrees of opposition to the Moon of one of the four most important. The fact that the planets engaged in these sexual relationships were all sex-related planets is interesting, and seems to suggest that, if it means anything at all, it's not incompatible with that type of relationship.

My friends mostly would say that the long-term relationship with the woman whose Moon opposes my Eris was one of the poorer choices of my life. However, if they're right, there were more conventional and simple astrological explanations for that.

[Jim Eshelman]

I notice that the women I have known with this aspect (not at all limited to those with whom I've been "involved") are pretty close to the definition of "sexually loose." It's not just that they're sexually active. It's that they are truly promiscuous in the, "<shrug> I think this is the fast food I'll get, since I'm driving past" sort of way.

At the very least, most of the men and women I know best who have this are "sexually easy," and they "get around."

They also have a sassy, think-for-themselves way through life. (Though sometimes they do shock tactics, I think it's just to establish that they are acting on their own and making their own decisions - in case anyone has any doubts about that.)

Possibly (and tied into this), there is a certain business mentality that thinks on its own. It doesn't feel like a "thinks outside the box" in the usual sense, but more like they are very efficient on thinking "inside the box" - incorporating facts and evidence, etc. - and analytically leaping to significant, persistent successes. Examples: Donald Trump, Warren Buffett, Cyril Fagan, Chesley Sullenbergber (out-of-the-box skill!), Marie Curie, Michael J. Fox. It's not that they aren't intuitive (most of them are) - it's that they are pursuing their goals through consistent research, effort, persistence, skill, etc.

REPRESENTATIVE EXAMPLES (partile hard aspects): Nicholas Cage, Diahann Carroll, Judy Garland, Charlton Heston, Lord Byron, Czar Alexander I, King Fuad I (Egypt), King Francis I (France), Humphrey Davy, Ian Brady, Nine Hartley, Martina Navratilova

[Jim Eshelman]

Presidents with this aspect include George Washington, Bill Clinton, and James Buchanan. (The first two of these also are known to be highly sex-motivated, and the third was at least sexually-social an outlier for his time (being surely America's first semi-openly gay president). Besides that, I think their characteristics are all over the map.)

Among the famous, there's a lot of "breakout" creativity and effectiveness. Consider Bill Gates, Henry Kissinger, John Lennon, Warren Buffett, and others - even Whitney Houston and Rick Perry should be considered.


REPRESNTATIVE EXAMPLES: Gary Duncan, Pres. George Washington, Pres. Bill Clinton, Pres. James Buchanan, Montgomery Cliff, Charles Bronson, Tammy Wynette, Josephine Baker, Maurice Ravel, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Victor Hugo, Samuel Johnson, Alfred Lord Tennyson, Oscar Wile [and an unusually large collection of literary figures in general], Gustav Eiffel, Rev. Billy Graham

[Jim Eshelman]

If Eris has value, it would be my closest angular planet.

[Jim Eshelman]

I've decided it's time to move this Eris thread out of experimental and into the Planets forum. Eris is larger than Pluto and has a somewhat reasonable orbital period approximately twice that of Pluto). One might well say that Eris is the Pluto of our generation: If there is another astronomical body of astrological significance, based on any physical properties, it is Eris. It's probably long past the time to be watching it as acutely as we watch any other planet.

It took Cyril Fagan 35 years or so after Pluto was discovered to start getting a solid handle on its meaning - which he did by finding individuals with luminaries in very close hard aspect to the planet and studying their autobiographies. It's time to make that routine with Eris, I think.

[Jim Eshelman]

So far (in addition to the erotic elements that seem obvious from some combinations), it's easy to say that the key word of Eris is CHAOS (and wildness). I mean this in the casual sense and in the specific technical sense of an incompressible and unmanageable number of data points - not Neptune confusion from diffusion but literally from an unmanageable number of data points (as if Mercury were living inside the Neptune world and chose not to indulge in selective perception). "Managing the incomprehensible" is not a bad summary of tactics I see with Eris.

There is a kind of "out of the ballpark" Mercury character - not just the managing immeasurable data but also in the trickster element that is basic to the chaos theme. I shan't be surprised if somebody in 10 or 20 years we conclude that Eris is ruler of Gemini.

I have no idea what fundamental universal need this represents.

ADDED 2/7: Every era has its "outliers." There was a time when Uranus was truly the outlier, "beyond usual bonds" of society. Then Neptune, then Pluto. In many ways, all three of these still are. Very roughly, their heyday was from around the time of their discovery until they time another planet beyond them was discovered - times when society (or at least astrologers!) were struggling with consciously assimilating ideas about the planet's distinctive consciousness, began talking about it, etc. -- Today, as the new outermost body I'm actively using in astrology, it's natural Eris will have the feel of being the new outlier.

A visual image for Eris: If Pluto is the highly isolated ONE out of the swarm of uncountable many (the individual within humanity, the single sperm of the ejaculate), Eris is the swarm itself, the undecided possibilities from which the single and distinctive eventually emerges.

[Jim Eshelman]

Given Eris' slowness, we need to be suspicious if we start finding commonalities reminiscent of its sign passage, e.g., spoke traits for luminary aspects. Nonetheless...

ERIS Foreground or Angular. Catherine the Great, Emperor Hirohito, Emperor Akihito, Pres. John Q. Adams, Pres. Theodore Roosevelt, Pres. Richard Nixon, Pres. Bill Clinton, Sec. Hillary Clinton, Sen. Mitt Romney, Diana Princess of Wales. James Eshelman, Jayj Jacobs, Tony Joseph, Joanne Stonnell, Peggy Lance, Teresa Hamilton. Manly Palmer Hall. L. Ron Hubbard, David Koresh, Jim Jones. Bruno Hauptman, Charles Whitman, Myra Hindley, Valerie Solanas, Richard Ramirez. Wolfgang Mozart, Paul McCartney, Bob Dylan, Hugh Hefner, Rupert Murdoch, Oprah Winfrey, Rodney King. My wife, my brother-in-law.

Moon-Eris. Albert Einstein, John Dee, Wolfgang Mozart, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Pres. Garfield, Pres. Polk, Queen Elizabeth I, Emperor Hirohito, Camilla Parker-Bowles, Eva Braun, William Heirens, Fritz Haarmann, Mata Hari. Patty Hearts. Avshalom Binyamin, By Jove, Venus Daily.

Sun-Eris. Alfred Witte, Kenneth Irving, Emperor Akihito, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Diana Princess of Wales, Grand Duchess Anastasia, Ross Perot, Adolf Eichmann, Josef Mengele, Heidi Fleiss, Phil Spector, Rodney King. My mother, my sister, Avshalom Binyamin, Freya, Mikestar 13.

Mercury-Eris. Cyril Fagan, Pres. John Adams, Pres. William McKinley, Pres. Donald Trump, Queen Elizabeth II, Sen. John McCain, Hugh Hefner, Ian Brady, Bruno Hauptman. Mike V.

Venus-Eris. Pres. Chester A. Arthur, Harry Prince of Wales, Rodney King, Ian Brady, William Heirens, Winnie Ruth Judd, Bruno Hauptman. My dad, Abby, Mikestar 13, Veronica, several women in my early history.

Mars-Eris. King Louis XIV, Pres. George Washington, Pres. James Buchanan, Pres. Bill Clinton, Sec. Pete Buttigieg, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Robert Strack, John Lennon, Gary Duncan. Anna-Kria King, Lance. (Several women in my past who had an unusual masculine sexual ferocity and easy sexual freedom.)

Jupiter-Eris. Queen Victoria, King Edward VIII, Pres. Thomas Jefferson, Pres. James Monroe, Ross Perot, Lee Harvey Oswald, James Holmes, Phil Spector, Valerie Harper. My wife, my mother.

Saturn-Eris. Pres. John Adams, Pres. James Madison, Pres. John Quincy Adams, Prince William, Sir John Dee, Israel Regardie, Ian Brady, Bruno Hauptman, Bill Cosby, JonBenet Ramsey, Maritha Pottenger. Mike V.

Uranus-Eris. Queen Mary I, Queen Elizabeth II, Pres. Abraham Lincoln, Pres. Andrew Johnson, Pres. Theodore Roosevelt, Pres. Franklin D. Roosevelt, Kenneth Anger, Robin Williams, Michel Gauquelin, Anna-Kria King, Hugh Hefner, Richard Branson, William Heirens, Erik Menendez. My brother-in-law. Jupiter Sets At Dawn, Veronica, Arena. [Is there a theme here of quelling the chaos, bringing it under control?]

Neptune-Eris. Pres. James Buchanan, Pres. Bill Clinton, Pres. George W. Bush, Pres. Donald Trump, Pres. Joe Biden, Sen. Mitt Romney, Camilla Parker-Bowles, George Harrison, David Letterman, David Helfgott, Susan Atkins, Dan White, O.J. Simpson. SteveS, By Jove. [Is there a theme here of unleashing the chaos, letting it flood? Or living amidst a chaos storm?]

Pluto-Eris. Pres. James Monroe, Pres. Lyndon B. Johnson, Pres. Richard Nixon, Pres. Gerald R. Ford, Pres. Ronald Reagan, Wolfgang Mozart, Israel Regardie, L. Ron Hubbard, Josef Mengele, Eva Braun, Marie Antoinette.

[Jim Eshelman]

Just to be clear, I don't want to turn this into a thread on rulerships. I want to concentrate on the symbolism of the planet. We are many years from the other thing. I want to keep this as pristine, concentrated an exploration of the observable nature of Eris as possible.

[Veronica]

Astro.com said my Eris info was unavailable.
I see that it aspects my natal Venus uranus square in your post above Jim.
Where is Eris in my natal chart and where is it now?

[Jim Eshelman]

Where is Eris in my natal chart and where is it now?

Your natal Eris is 17°33' Pisces. Transiting Eris is 28°30' Pisces.

[Jim Eshelman]

For a long-term view, that may give further clues at a world (mundane) level, here are the periods Eris occupied the constellations over the last several centuries (rounded to the years). I made sure to have some overlap with the recent passage (that ends soon) and with the next. - As you can see, we are now in the part of its orbit where it moves slowest (takes longer per sign).

Pisces: 1343-1469 (126 yrs)
Aries: 1464-1581 (117 yrs)
Taurus: 1578-1632 (54 yrs)
Gemini: 1630-1655 (25 yrs)
Cancer: 1654-1672 (16 yrs)
Leo: 1670-1687 (17 yrs)
Virgo: 1686-1707 (21 yrs)
Libra: 1705-1732 (27 yrs)
Scorpio: 1730-1760 (30 yrs)
Sagittarius: 1759-1791 (32 yrs)
Capricorn: 1790-1833 (43 yrs)
Aquarius: 1831-1905 (74 yrs)
Pisces: 1901-2028 (127 yrs)
Aries: 2023-2140 (117 yrs)

[Jim Eshelman]

Visualize the universe as an infinite swarm of uncountable data points that have no intrinsic patterns within them. (Patterns could be imposed, but they have no intrinsic patterns.) Physically these are all the molecules in the universe; psychologically, all the impressions striking our sensorium from any direction, through any channel, and all the contents already within our brains and psyches as well: It's all data, in a sense, and the data is chaotic in the pure sense of having no intrinsic order.

For discussion purposes, let's call this THE SWARM.

We already speak of a couple of the outer planets in terms of the swarm. Most obviously, Bradley related Pluto to the act of conception by a single, isolated sperm from a cloud of a hundred million sperms. (That medical model is now known to be wrong, but it doesn't stop it being a useful metaphor, especially since it's in most people's minds.) From this metaphor comes the most obvious Pluto descriptor: The single individually, unconditionally itself isolated and distinguished from the swarm of humanity.

Now that I've established the image (the metaphor), we can use it to show relationships and distinctions between or among the outer planets; in fact, one could probably define all the planets from this (as one could from many other starting points). I suggest the following:

ERIS is the swarm, the chaos of immeasurable data points existing in a state of no imposed order or connection - a true "getting to zero," or unlimited possibility not yet narrowed. For example, the Erisian mind naturally navigates these conditions (thus, often unwittingly, leaving chaos in their wake).

PLUTO is a single point distinguished from the swarm, a single possibility around which the rest of reality (the impressions or content of the Swarm) organizes itself. (Chaos always resolves into order the moment one position is adopted and held unconditionally.)

NEPTUNE is a mind standing in the face of the Swarm incapable of comprehending it (as Neptune is unbound by boundary or definition) and then ironically imposing order by selective perception. (Everything about Neptune is comprehensible from the idea that it forges its reality selectively from selective perception in the face of the alternative of immeasurable madness.)

URANUS, just like Neptune, stands beholding the swarm and, instead of selectively perceiving, just goes, "Wow! Look at that! Whatever it is, it's awesome and just goes on forever!"

SATURN says, "Hey, you crazy, trippin' outer planets, I have work to do and survival to manage, so I'm just going to pay attention to what's at hand," adopting the subset of the Swarm's data points that is immediately relevant.

JUPITER looks at Saturn's subset (and the idea that there is an undistinguished More beyond Saturn's practical-and-at-hand-for-the-moment) and finds a way to build social (societal) consensus from it (with a sense - both practical and religious - that 'There surely is more beyond these practical boundaries!")

The rest of the planets manage life within this from their own particular angles.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Astro.com said my Eris info was unavailable.

When you're on the chart selection page, scroll down. At the bottom it says Additional Objects. You may have to click on it if there's nothing under it.
Choose Eris from the list on the left. You can also choose the Vertex, and other stuff by holding down the control key to click on stuff. Then click on click here to show chart. If you want to always include Eris, click on the box that says "Save default setting" in the middle above the chart. You can always change it by going back to the additional objects section.

[Veronica]

Astro.com said my Eris info was unavailable.

When you're on the chart selection page, scroll down. At the bottom it says Additional Objects. You may have to click on it if there's nothing under it.
Choose Eris from the list on the left. You can also choose the Vertex, and other stuff by holding down the control key to click on stuff. Then click on click here to show chart. If you want to always include Eris, click on the box that says "Save default setting" in the middle above the chart. You can always change it by going back to the additional objects section.

I looked in there and didnt see it and manually entered it and it is said unavailable. Maybe its my phone. I will turn on my pc later and check. Thank you for verifying that that section is where it should be.

Thank you Jim for the info and the new posts as well. I esp like the visualization and will think about it deeper as Im hiking today.
It would seem being opposite my Uranus that Eris in my solar arcs would be opposite my natal Moon Neptune Jupiter conjunction as Uranus is now conjunct my natal neptune and approaching Jupiter and squaring my MC.

I reread some stories I know of Eris /Discordia and Chaos theroy stuff and thougt about the Golden apple idea. I do resonate deeply with the archype in many ways and had an image pop into my head of how in cellular regeneration and formation cells on the border betewwn two distinct organs sometimes chaotically do not form into one or the other but grow into something else. ...ie cervical cancer cells which form at the boundary between the uterus and the tip of the cervic.
Nit sure it relates but thats what came to mind....the frantic Saturnian gotta make something outa this....the struggle to create order outa disorder.

[Jim Eshelman]

It would seem being opposite my Uranus that Eris in my solar arcs would be opposite my natal Moon Neptune Jupiter conjunction as Uranus is now conjunct my natal neptune and approaching Jupiter and squaring my MC.

Yes, your current Solar Arc Eris is 7°20' Taurus, applying to oppose your Moon 24'.

[Jim Eshelman]

Eris moves forward through the zodiac over time (aside from its normal retrograde periods, like every other planet) but also has been dramatically changing its celestial latitude. This causes some fascinating behaviors with its mundane locations.

Taking as an example: When I was born, Eris was 14°01' Pisces, latitude 24S00. Right now (this minute) it is 28°30' Pisces, latitude 11S28 - quite a difference in latitude!

Using my natal chart and my current residence as an example, here is how varied Eris' mundane positions can be. For each angle, I will list the longitude that will be on the angle when Eris exactly crosses it:

Long: r Eris 14°01' Pisces, t Eris 28°30' Pisces
MC: r Eris 24°34' Pisces, t Eris 2°57' Aries
Asc: r Eris 20°07' Aries, t Eris 14°37' Aries
Dsc: r Eris 9°13' Pisces, t Eris 25°56' Pisces

Look at Ascendant! Though Eris has moved forward 14°29' in longitude and 8°23' in RA (measured by the MC longitude when it culminates), it now rises 5°30' earlier than it did when I was born. This is crazy stuff!

[Jim Eshelman]

On February 5 at around 11 PM I suddenly had the certainty that it was time to simply wholly adopt Eris as an in use planet on the same basis as all the other planets we routinely use - an 11th astrological planet. There was no immediate event triggering it, no new astrological detail that suddenly gave me the idea, no aberrant fantasy that flitted through. It was really just that one minute the idea wasn't in my head and the next minute it was there with full certainty.

I've long come to recognize these inner communications with this level of unflinching certainty. I've spent decades filtering them from other psychological shifts or states so that I know all things it is not. For one small example, it is not an impulse, not a reaction, not a calculation, etc. That what it is isn't too important right now - the main point of this post is briefly look at whether anything astrological happened exactly then that coincided with this shift.

I've already mentioned a minor one (in my SLR thread): My current Demi-SLR has a background partile square of transiting Sun to both natal and transiting Eris. Not a big deal, as astrological details go, but enough to make me curious to look further.

My SIDEREAL SOLAR RETURN also says that this will be a year of major new discoveries etc.: A nearly partile Mercury-Uranus opposition squares Ascendant for the location where the SSR set up. But, it does seem that in coming home to LA I arranged that Eris would be a significant part of my year: For my home, transiting Eris is 0°18' from MC. (For the placed where the SSR set up, it was 5°14' away.) OK, we're off to a start!

Ongoing TRANSITS have been set for a generally positive, happy Mercury time, with transiting Jupiter squaring both natal and SSR Mercury. This had been on SNQ angles for a couple of days before but was no longer exact late on 2/5.

(Non-astrological digression: OMG, when I wrote it aa 2/5 it clicked something in my brain: Exactly to the day and nearly the hour 41 years ago, on 2/5/1980 I had a sudden shift of consciousness that would take a small book to explain but - at the core of it - was an ability to look at the universe and its composition in a way that is basic to what I now understand as the nature of Eris. I don't to detail that occasion here - the "what I now understand as the nature of Eris" is explained above - but it seems quite significant to me that the groundwork was 41 years ago nearly to the hour of this year's 2/5 unprompted decision.)

My SQ had transiting Mars on Dsc with SQ Moon only 0°04' past opposition to Saturn. (No idea what that means, glad I wasn't sick.) In contrast, PSSR Asc squared solar Venus, again without a clear connection to the event.

My ENNEAD had set up a few hours earlier, at 5:59 PM. It's the most proximate major astrological factor. Other than keeping my mind working with transiting Mercury exactly setting, I don't see that it's particularly relevant. -- Ah, wait, it does exactly show a quantum mental shift: Natal Pluto is 0°15' past Ascendant opposed by transiting Mercury 0°46' past Descendant, a half-degree mundane opposition within 1° of the angle. That completely explains to me the shift (and what I'll call, for lack of a friendly word, the "communication").

It doesn't say "Why Eris." I assume that it was just the "next step" needed at the moment. (Neither natal nor transiting Eris has any significance in the Ennead.)

[Jim Eshelman]

Everybody who has watched Trump's chart knows his Mercury-Neptune square (by no means his closest hard aspect, but nonetheless important) means such things as incessant, reflexive lying about everything plus the ability to tell a story and sell it to darn near anyone. What was never obvious without Eris (which ties into his Mercury-Neptune closely) is that his well-honed tactic is weaving chaos, disruption, and over-turning truth (rather than just fibbing) to completely change the dynamic and provide his means of success.

[TheScales_BothWays]

Of the 10 most important women in my life, my natal Eris makes a partile conjunction, opposition, or square with only two of them: the Venus of one of the least important of them, and the Mars of one of the most important. It is within two degrees of opposition to the Moon of one of the four most important. The fact that the planets engaged in these sexual relationships were all sex-related planets is interesting, and seems to suggest that, if it means anything at all, it's not incompatible with that type of relationship.

My friends mostly would say that the long-term relationship with the woman whose Moon opposes my Eris was one of the poorer choices of my life. However, if they're right, there were more conventional and simple astrological explanations for that.

How did these Eris-contact relationships feel like?

I notice that I have quite a number of Eris connections with a lot of the men whom I have a strong physical attraction to (even more if I include octiles). Sun-Eris, Venus-Eris and Mars-Eris are the most common interaspects (and in all cases, it's their Suns, Venuses and Marses to my Eris). I also noticed Mercury-Eris aspects with a few men, which are interesting (and I don't necessarily feel any less physically attracted to those few men either). And I suspect that I have Moon-Eris connections with the rest who possibly have their Moons in late spoke degrees, but I'm unsure of their time of birth. These men include both straight and gay/bi men.

Though, of course, I do have other interaspects that perfectly explain my attraction for these men, like Mars-Uranus, Mars-Pluto, Sun-Angle, Mars-Angle and etc. It's just that with a lot of these men, I have their Sun, Venus and/or Mars aspecting my Eris too.

Oh, and please feel free to move this post as a separate thread if it's too off-topic.

[Jim Eshelman]

How did these Eris-contact relationships feel like?

I'd have to go back and reconstruct who the listed people are (it's been years since I wrote this and there is no way to do a search - I'd have to look chart by chart). I think there was no obvious commonality: It would be "like me" to mention it if I'd noticed anything.

Something I danced around here is that, because Eris moves so slowly, if a person's planet aspects my Eris then it usually aspected their Eris as well. That's not the case with greater age difference, but is certainly the case with anyone born within several years of me. The person with Moon opposite my Eris (less than 2°) had her own 1°30' Moon-Eris (14 year age difference). Anna-Kria and I were together decades with a 26-year age difference and our Erises are less than 8° apart (though she had no planets aspecting my Eris). So it's hard to filter out whether any effects came from synastry or from the fact that they had close hard Eris aspects for themselves.

I notice that I have quite a number of Eris connections with a lot of the men whom I have a strong physical attraction to (even more if I include octiles). Sun-Eris, Venus-Eris and Mars-Eris are the most common interaspects (and in all cases, it's their Suns, Venuses and Marses to my Eris).

This also means that these are men who have strong Sun-Eris, Venus-Eris, or Mars-Eris in their own charts, right?

Though, of course, I do have other interaspects that perfectly explain my attraction for these men, like Mars-Uranus, Mars-Pluto, Sun-Angle, Mars-Angle and etc. It's just that with a lot of these men, I have their Sun, Venus and/or Mars aspecting my Eris too.

I doubt I pay significant attention to Eris interchanges just because of the "if it aspects my Eris, it must aspect their own Eris" factor (unless mundane aspects emerge, which wouldn't have this restriction). When I started this thread, I was looking for every possible angle from which to get a whisper of what was really going on and some of them might be dead-end streets (permanently or for a while).

But noticing which planets were involved - the sexual planets - was certainly interesting. It made clear that Eris' nature (whatever it may be) isn't incompatible with sexual themes. As a sidebar, I note that intensely sexual connections certainly have a capability to excite other emerging Eris themes: They can be disrupting and invite different kinds of chaos, for example, often have a strong trickster or mischief element, etc. Maybe (for example) that's what these relationships are doing: disrupting us.

As you may have noticed, you have a 0°36' Sun-Eris mundane opposition.

[TheScales_BothWays]

I'd have to go back and reconstruct who the listed people are (it's been years since I wrote this and there is no way to do a search - I'd have to look chart by chart).

Ah, sorry, I didn't notice that this thread was some years old.

Something I danced around here is that, because Eris moves so slowly, if a person's planet aspects my Eris then it usually aspected their Eris as well...So it's hard to filter out whether any effects came from synastry or from the fact that they had close hard Eris aspects for themselves.

Very true.

This also means that these are men who have strong Sun-Eris, Venus-Eris, or Mars-Eris in their own charts, right?

Yes. So I do see your point on whether what I notice/feel is the interaspects to my Eris, or their natal Eris aspects themselves.

As a sidebar, I note that intensely sexual connections certainly have a capability to excite other emerging Eris themes: They can be disrupting and invite different kinds of chaos, for example, often have a strong trickster or mischief element, etc. Maybe (for example) that's what these relationships are doing: disrupting us.

FWIW, my first crush, the Dallas guy has his Mars closely opposing my Eris. Going through a crush as a teenager can be said as "chaotic" in a way. Regardless, his Uranus is partile conjunct my Mars, and that by itself perfectly explains all the "chaotic", sudden and strong attraction I felt for him.

There may have been elements of mischief when I was trying to get the attention of some of these men, though I would say it's more along the lines of subtly giving hints that I am attracted to them, that I'd like to get to know them better, and trying to find out if they are attracted to me too.

As you may have noticed, you have a 0°36' Sun-Eris mundane opposition.

I actually didn't notice that! Thanks for pointing that out, Jim! Quite interesting 🧐

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

The Mars-Venus Merger glyph always confuses me at first, thinking something untoward happened to the Venus glyph.

The weird Pisces glyph though really is way too close to the actual Pisces glyph.

I just use Eris. Works best for me.

[Soft Alpaca]

I'm sensing that perhaps Eris is a malefic counterpart to Mercury, I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually connect it to the nervous system, and mercury more so to the forebrain (as Eris also has that almost Mars like force theme- I see why it was described as a Mars type planet) .

Now I'm curious if the verbage behind Uranus's Beneficial chaotic nature will be changed due to it finally having a counterpart (in a way they both are like evolved mercuries). Mercury is the brain, the nervous system is Eris, the electrons firing between the synapses is Uranus.

[Jim Eshelman]

Eris' presence in your chart is that it is foreground. Less foreground than your Sun but it's about as foreground as your Jupiter: It's 3°19' from your IC.

Ecliptically, it has no aspects worth mentioning; but it does have a 0°05' mundane conjunction with Jupiter in the foreground.

[Soft Alpaca]

Ok Jim makes sense, I'm just trying to separate the themes of chaos here. So is this why I think I'm more Mars like than I am? Also how does this change my chart as a whole?

[Jim Eshelman]

Ok Jim makes sense, I'm just trying to separate the themes of chaos here. So is this why I think I'm more Mars like than I am? Also how does this change my chart as a whole?

I doubt it. There's not much in common between Mars and Eris.

[Soft Alpaca]

So the ability to solve the unsolvable, does Eris represent entropy then?

[Jim Eshelman]

So the ability to solve the unsolvable, does Eris represent entropy then?

I have no evidence of that, though it does seem fundamentally related to chaos. I don't think it's a diversification into greater complexity but, rather, a primal uber-complexity that pre-exists order.

[Soft Alpaca]

Hmm interesting. Well this explains why I don't understand sagittarius as well then.. I should probably read Eris+Jupiter foreground as one interpretation correct?

[Jim Eshelman]

Alpaca, since it seems you're a prime example of Jupiter-Eris combinations, may I try out an interpretation on you that I've been discussing with another Jupiter-Eris conjunction? The main points are two:

1. Chaos brings out the best in you. While this could mean many things, I'm most mindful in the sense that you rise to the occasion when things are falling apart, do your best on rebound and rebottle rather than initial planning, are the person we want on hand when everything is going to hell because you're likely to pull us out of it, etc.

2. You experience disruption where others would expect good fortune, i.e., have trouble with success and prosperity (self-defeating?) because you manage disruptive circumstances around success.

In simpler terms: Your chaos circuit clicks on simultaneously with your success circuit, so it is both "success when in chaotic circumstances" and "chaotic circumstances when trying to have success." This may mean that you manage the greatest prosperity in uncertain, undecided times and conditions.

Does any of this ring true?

[Soft Alpaca]

Yes Jim. Actually a thought (as I'm putting up a summer house as a home base out back here where I'm at on the farm) I'm uncertain of what I'm doing. I'm an art kid; who chose the industry that wouldn't tank, now it's tanked. More and more I question if is should have worked in the death business (I wanted to be a military sniper in highschool until I found about my astigmatism, now I live on an old farm that was originally a butcher shop with a wake room.) Joking aside i would have made a killer...

I literally live my life like a walking magnet for chaos and drama and I don't like it, but I'm great in it. It's not just Eris-Jupiter, Mars-Saturn aka Capricorn steely resolve is needed to ground me. I'm.the kind of guy who walks in and wham there's a heart attack and I'm using the AED (not a real example bc 5th amendment risks etc). Gun shot- got it, OD got it yes basically that's it.

Tbh I have PTSD that's probably why I'm stoned all the time and that there makes most people like me. As for intal planning, it comes with my instincts (I'm disciplined because of Saturn don't mistake that while Eris-Jup may be expressive, but the core is lead). I was well trained to assess crisses- which as a PTSD victim, natural ly everything is a crisis. At birth even I had seizures where u would "star through peoples souls". It took a year and a half for the doctors to catch it and believe my nana, I spent two weeks with a box on my head- something isn't wired just right but it's mostly ok. Btw it makes sense that I worship a psychopomp of the cross (birth, life, and death- the cross being older than even abraham).

I seek for a calm place and I'm an introvert despite all of this. (I just hope that the stuff I write about just doesn't come true.). It's a long running joke that I'm the type of guy who accidentally triggers the apocalypse (that's as hero as I get btw,).

[Veronica]

Where is Eris in my natal chart and where is it now?

Your natal Eris is 17°33' Pisces. Transiting Eris is 28°30' Pisces.

It would seem to me then that for the past two years or so Eris and Pluto have made a square and are now seperating.

I would think in terms of the hella year 2020 was that this interchange added a different flavor then the delineations explored in the mundane topics.

Eris at 28 now is near squaring my solar Arc conjuncti

[Jim Eshelman]

It would seem to me then that for the past two years or so Eris and Pluto have made a square and are now seperating.

I would think in terms of the hella year 2020 was that this interchange added a different flavor then the delineations explored in the mundane topics.

Yes, there was a lot of attention in some mundane astrology circles about the Pluto-Eris square. In the 2020 Capsolar (where Saturn conjunct Pluto within a few minutes was foreground for the U.S.) we find:

27°52' Sag - Pluto
28°07' Sag - Saturn
28°12' Pis - Eris

Furthermore, for the U.S. Eris was the single strongest planet! Mundanely it was 1°29' above Ascendant, which is stronger even than Uranus 1°24' from EP.

Exact Pluto-Eris squares occur through 2020 and 2021:
-- In 2020: 1/26, 6/14, 12/10
-- In 2021: 8/27, 10/9

[Soft Alpaca]

Just curious what color schema comes to mind for Eris to you Jim?

[Jim Eshelman]

Just curious what color schema comes to mind for Eris to you Jim?

Too early. No impressions.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Just curious what color schema comes to mind for Eris to you Jim?

Bright purple, obviously. Maybe with glowing pink streaks.

[By Jove]

Wouldn't be surprised if Eris turned out to be the "true" ruler of Taurus, similar to how Pluto became the "true" ruler of Aries.

If any of this is relevant to you guys:
My Eris is 21'53 in Pisces.
Eris squares my Moon & Neptune in Sagittarius.
Eris trines my Jupiter in Cancer.
Eris is sextile my ASC in Taurus.

Girlfriend Su*** has Eris in 22'24 Pisces.
Eris squares her Uranus & Neptune in Sagittarius.
Eris biquintile her Mercury & Pluto in Libra.
Eris semisquare her ASC in Aquarius.

[Jim Eshelman]

Wouldn't be surprised if Eris turned out to be the "true" ruler of Taurus, similar to how Pluto became the "true" ruler of Aries.

It's not a Taurus feel. I wouldn't be surprised if Sedna turned out to be Taurus' ruler, but nothing about Eris suggests a similarity (and Taurus is just soooooo Venussy: I'd find it easier to drop Venus' rulership in Libra than Taurus).

But these are all far down the road. Years away, I'm sure.

[Soft Alpaca]

So in all this I'm getting Gemini is made from a lavender and crimson planets interesting.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

I'm going to start deleting all posts in this thread is it refer to Eris rulerships or exaltation. Without reading anything else in them.

As I said above, we can talk about this in 5-10-20 years when we actually know something substantial about the planet.

I said at least once above that I do not want this thread to turn into a rulership discussion

:applause:

[Soft Alpaca]

Well as an Eris angular person I can say that I am certainly chaotic to say the least, I think this manifests as aiming through uncertainy -Compliance towards instability; cultural nature inclined towards the incomprehensible and taboo.

[Jim Eshelman]

Well as an Eris angular person I can say that I am certainly chaotic to say the least, I think this manifests as aiming through uncertainy -Compliance towards instability; cultural nature inclined towards the incomprehensible and taboo.

My working interpretation of foreground Eris in the birth chart is: Mischievous, curious, trickster, outlier, and disruptor: Naturally navigates the swarm of chaos more easily with practical advantage (but thus also leaves a wake of chaos, disrupting imposed orders and conditions, because they have little native resistance to disorder). Managing the incomprehensible, juggles undecided possibilities.

[Soft Alpaca]

Sounds about right, there is something very un-jupiter about it that I think exists as well. I think that applying this to how I view my jupiter signs is important (I see this Eris energy disrupting the Jupiter/Sun radiance).

I think the best way for me to describe this (sorry for the vulgarity I mean not to offend anyone) but where as sagittarius is Compliance, Eris is Gaijin: an outsider, the foreigner.

[Jim Eshelman]

...where as sagittarius is Compliance, Eris is Gaijin: an outsider, the foreigner.

That's making it sound very Plutonian. So far as I understand Eris so far, it's more indifferent to the idea in the way that (say) viruses or birds or random DNA strands don't recognize borders.

[Soft Alpaca]

I more so got the sense that Gaijin be used to say outsider as in someone who is there to sew chaos (where as to me Pluto never shows up to be a Gaijin in the first place). However I could see the confusion.

As for the reference to no borders that clicked. Aha Pluto-Eris Gemini doesn't believe in borders, where as Jupiter sagittarius believes in boundlessness. It's another overlap like quantity vs quality. As an Eris angular person, I don't have a lacking in believing in the death of borders (where as every other sagittarius person I have come along in my life has staunchly defended them, much like the construct of race etc.) Patriotism vs Matritisim is you will (love of self-country-quality;like a father/authority vs love of all-humanity-quantiy; like a child/mother).

Eris supports the death of Patriotism (mind you I'd never do it myself, but I wouldn't be upset if the country fell apart; because we let self made kings rule over us), likely because they shouldn't have been drawn to begin with. But then again perhaps maybe this is too Pluto as well...

See all of this actually exhausts me on a day to day level as well. I think I retreat into capricorn (as other sagittarius do things sometimes fundamentally different than me). Eris/Pluto oppose Sagittarius energy, Uranus does so to leo. I don't really have any moon/neptune to tone out my saturn/Mars the same way. Sometimes just putting peddle to the metal helps.