Mars-Neptune

Q&A and discussion on Aspects.
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Danica
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Mars-Neptune

Post by Danica » Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:17 pm

It's one of the aspects whose dynamics we tend to understand the least, it seems, and therefore it happens that more often than not it manifests in experience in a negative - not healthy for individual nor the environment - manner, when it is prominent in one or another way (by natal placement, or during a phase in person's life, or in a relationship/interaction).

It's one part of the self-destruction tendency pattern, and I think the more we're able to understand it's inner mechanics, the how-it-works - the better we're able to, each of us personally, and we collectively simultaneously with this, as it goes - develop our capacity to be/move-along with this ergie in a healing, uplifting, artful manner instead of destructive and wounding.

Here's a list, from what I have on file, of popularly known people who have Ma-Ne dynamic aspect in their chart (orb: cnj/sq/opp 5*; oct 2*), which I think may serve as illuminating and inspiring resource for a qualitative reflection (which we can quantify later if/when needed :) ) on this planetary combo - as examples that through life itself have been finding, striking-upon an alchemical, artful way of channeling/integrating this ergie:

Frida Kahlo --- opp 1*00' (one of central features of the chart)
Parker J. Palmer --- sq 4*08'
James Joyce --- oct 1*50'
Donald Bradley --- oct 47'
L. Da Vinci --- oct 30'
Maya Angelou --- opp 1*13' (across horiz.)
Kamala Harris --- sq 4*28'
Eckhart Tolle --- oct 42'
George Carlin --- opp 3*36'
Bjork --- oct 16'
John Milton --- opp 21' (w. Sun partile, in the fore)
Karl Jaspers --- sq 14'
Charles Baudelaire --- sq 2*48 (Ur cnj Ne is partile)
Barbra Streisand --- sq 1*15'
Marie Curie --- oct 1*46'
Nicolaus Copernicus --- sq 3*34'
G.W.F. Hegel --- sq 2*50'
Bert Hellinger --- sq 2*35'
Maud Ballington Booth --- opp 32' (for noon chart)
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Jim Eshelman
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Re: Mars-Neptune

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:52 pm

When I'm not thinking that my Mars-Neptune square - my closest natal aspect - is the worst part of my I've inflicted on people in my life, I'm thinking it's the best part of me. In the catalogue of eminent sample charts I've been building (currently a little more than half complete), I have 36 Class 1 major hard Mars-Neptune aspects (underlined means foreground):
  • Aaron Kosiminski, Charles Manson, Charles Whitman
  • King Henry VIII, King Ludwig II, Pres. William McKinley, Pres. Bill Clinton, Prince Albert, Imelda Marcos, Eleanor Roosevelt
  • Luciano Pavarotti, Nathalie Stutzmann, Anna Moffo, Marcel Marceau, Keir Dullea, Polly Bergen, Wynonna Judd, Ally Sheedy, Susan Strasberg, Kylie Jenner, Oriana Fallaci, Ricky Nelson
  • Percy Bysshe Shelley, George Sand, Robert Heinlein, Maya Angelou
  • Dane Rudhyar, James Eshelman, Zipporah Dobyns
  • Jack Parsons, Sri Aurobindo, St. Therese of Liseux, Ernest Gallo, Steve Jobs, Joanne Herring, Leona Helmsley

The similarly-sized list of Class 1 major soft aspects has some comparably extreme cases. Among murderers, though Jack the Ripper and Manson have already appeared above, we get Henri Desiré Landru, O.J. Simpson, Robert Strack, and Winnie Ruth Judd. A great example of the aspect disciplined and applied powerfully is Florence Farr; similar in a different way is Starhawk; and the astrologers in my list are a little more metaphysically inclined: Foss Heindel and Brig. Firebrace (but also Margaret Hone). The politicians are more conservative and some (like Giuliani) are rather vile. Many come quite alive in creative, diverse ways, including Susan Boyle, Gladys Knight, Jimmy Page, George Michael, will.I.am, Kesha, and even Stu Sutcliffe.

I do think almost everything that matters about powerful Mars-Neptune can be explained by high dopamine levels and dopamine-driven behavior (which has its negative side, of course). But with all the negative (and sometimes gruesome) traits, some of the very positive things typically found with Mars-Neptune (or things that are positive or negative depending on the occasion) include zealous enthusiasm for interests and convictions, supercharged imagination, great stamina for long-term vision, concentrated intensity, high IQ, usually able to compel reality to conformity quickly to his or her wants, and, more generally, enormous psychic power to fascinate and move minds and reality in a thriving life of high drama.
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

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Danica
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Re: Mars-Neptune

Post by Danica » Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:19 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:52 pm
[..] my Mars-Neptune square - my closest natal aspect [...]
In mundo, it's 06', and Ju-Ur is 21';
but eclipto, Ve-Pl is 13', Ju-Ur 16'
--- the Ma-Ne is 2*25 in-eclipto

From what I can say as an outside observer (and granted, tending to be biased in their own Ju-Ur manner), if we're to use solely the two closest-by-orb aspects for description of your life and character overall, the combo of: *Ve-Pl with Ju-Ur* fits more accurately, than the combo *Ma-Ne with Ju-Ur*.

Edit: I see though how the Wine Wizards maybe speaking to the contrary :D
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Jim Eshelman
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Re: Mars-Neptune

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:41 pm

The Mars-Neptune is closest, I should say, for birthplace, but in relocation it gets much wider. That invites the question of whether that 0°06' mundane square fades in amplitude with a new location. In any case, Venus-Pluto and Jupiter-Uranus (as you say) plus Mercury-Saturn and Mars-Neptune are the primary aspects.

Another way to look at it is that in my Novien the closest aspects are Venus-Pluto and Jupiter-Uranus - plus the closer (half degree) Moon-Mercury square.
Jim Eshelman
www.jeshelman.com

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