Joseph Biden

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Joseph Biden

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:33 pm

Vice President Biden was born November 20, 1942, 8:30 AM EWT, Scranton, PA according to his own statement.

Presuming he is nominated for the presidency, he will compete against President Trump in November. Based on past patterns, to "qualify" to succeed Trump he would need to have a Taurus or Scorpio luminary. He has a Scorpio Sun, so he's in the running.

Every president has been unique, expressing the office in a way consistent with his own character; nonetheless, there are some astrological factors that are more likely to become president than others; or similarities to other presidents may give us an idea how a president would act. (I wrote today that Biden might be newly inspired by FDR, but the character striving to show in him is Winston Churchill.)

I'll make a few observations about how features in Biden's chart compare to those of earlier presidents.

Strong features in Biden's chart include:

Sun in Scorpio - 4 presidents (slightly high, but none since the 19th century). Van Buren, Taylor, Pierce, Garfield.
Moon in Aries - 5 presidents (tied for second highest, including two recent powerful ones). Taylor, Garfield, Harding, Reagan, Clinton
Sun in Scorpio, Moon in Aries - Zachary Taylor & James A. Garfield (both died in office)
Mars in Libra - 6 presidents (one of the higher, but Mars spends a lot of time in Libra). Van Buren, Taylor, Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, Harding. Astonishingly, these six names include five (out of 8) presidents who died in office!

None of his angular planets is among the most common for presidents overall, though Sun is moderately high. Similar presidential styles include:
Uranus foreground (Dsc 0°30') - Adams, Jackson, Van Buren, Harrison, Hayes, T. Roosevelt, F. Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Reagan, Obama.
Saturn foreground (Dsc 4°53') - Madison, Monroe, Pierce, Buchanan, Lincoln, Grant, Taft, Wilson, Hoover, Kennedy, Carter
Venus foreground (Asc 4°43') - W. Harrison, Polk, Cleveland, T . Roosevelt, Clinton
Sun foreground (Asc 5°28') - Madison, Van Buren, Tyler, Polk, Lincoln, Grant, Arthur, Eisenhower, Ford, Reagan, Obama

Presidents who had his two most angular planets angular (Ur, Sa): No U.S. president has had both Uranus and Saturn foreground.

Moon-Pluto sq. (0°50' in mundo) - 7, of whom the hard were Washington, Arthur, Wilson.
Sun-Venus conj. (1°00') - (The rarest aspect in nature and the rarest among presidents.) Only Coolidge.
Sun-Jupiter tr. (2°26') - 6, of whom the soft aspects were Adams, Adams, Arthur, Clinton, a mixture of characters, styles, and successes.
Venus-Neptune sex. (2°58') - 6, of whom the soft aspects were Lincoln & Arthur.
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SLR for Inauguration Day

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:48 pm

The inauguration chart for January 20, 2021, 12:00 PM, Washington, DC is quite severe. How is it for Biden, though? He has a new Sidereal Lunar Return about 6 PM that evening. How does it look? Listing only the Class 1 angularities and aspects (which are voluminous by themselves):

t Mars on MC -3°43'
r Mars sq. Asc -1°15'
t Saturn sq. MC -1°13'
r Moon on MC -1°01'
t Moon on MC -0°47'
----------------------------
-- t Su/Sa = MC +0°12'
t Sun sq. MC +1°37'

-- t Mars-Uranus conj. 0°03'
-- t Sun sq. r Moon 0°57'
-- t Mars-Jupiter sq. 0°39'
-- t Jupiter-Uranus sq, 0°42'
-- t Jupiter op. r Pluto 0°53'

-- t Pluto op. r Jupiter 1°22'
-- t Mars sq. r Pluto 1°31'
-- t Uranus sq. r Pluto 1°35'
-- t Saturn op. r Pluto 1°48' in mundo
-- t Saturn sq. r Moon 1°53'
-- t Mercury-Uranus sq. 2°09' in mundo
-- t Sun-Saturn conj. 2°26' in mundo
-- t Mars conj r Moon 2°42' in mundo
-- t Mercury-Mars sq. 2°46' in mundo
-- t Saturn-Uranus sq. 2°47'
-- t Mars-Saturn sq. 2°50'

Non-foreground Partile
(None)
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Re: SLR for Inauguration Day

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:21 pm

This is an extraordinary chart. It has uncertainties, but may become a long-term pet example in our files.

First, it is hard to think Biden would not be at the very center of attention, the immediate darling of the crowd, with his Moon in the degree of Midheaven partile square Sun. As a former VP he wouldn't be expected to be present if he hadn't won.

Next, there is a great uncertainty: Saturn's role in this could swing either way. Saturn conjoins Sun, squares natal Moon, and squares MC, the Sun/Saturn midpoint being minutes from square MC. Sometimes, this is an aspect of loss and disgrace. Sometimes, it is an aspect of taking on enormous responsibility, especially when there is a serious chance that one will not outlive the term of the responsibility. Saturn is certainly appropriate for taking on what Biden would inherit from his predecessor if elected president.

But there is worse. It could be simply the public pressure and grief he would inherit but it looks more like a direct threat to him. In addition to the Sun-Saturn emphasis, the closest aspect is a 0°03' Mars-Uranus conjunction foreground. I can only say: I hope the Secret Service is on their best game that day and for that month. (Other aspects lean a similar way.)

From this SLR alone, I think he'll win. Between this chart and the Capsolar, I fear for him.
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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Danica » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:03 pm

This chart looks terrifying! and particularly in light of the Capsolar as is :shock:

There's the Jupiter line running west from DC - within plane-flight reach to get there timely for the SLR to set with t Ju cnj DC.

This SLR for Washington DC looks so severe, I think if the whoever is making these decisions is wise enough to consider astrology's insight sees to it that Joe is somewhere along that Jupiter line, instead in DC, will literally save the man's life.
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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:10 pm

Since it becomes effective about a day before it occurs, and 6 hours earlier he (hopefully!) will be scheduled to be sworn in, being out of town might not be an option. - I'm guessing they won't do a public inauguration, but the pressure for one will be huge. If he's in public, a sniper remains a definite possibility.

If there are public events, the pressure to be at inaugural balls exactly when this is setting up will be huge.

It's one of those ironies: Being a different place six hours later when the chart occurs won't prevent an event from happening six hours earlier before you go there.

But we CAN have unusually good protection from the Secret Service (which they always provide anyway).

Meanwhile... I (like many others) am quite eager to hear his VP selection. I thought we'd have Biden on hand as president for as much as a year but it may be a matter or minutes.
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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Danica » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:28 pm

The transiting angular line-up of both Lights with Saturn, and this is colored additionally by t Mars as the second-tier angularity, and there's nat Mars angular to go with it.
Then layer in the t Ma conj t Ur 03' as the tightest aspect of the chart.
And the fact that this is his t Ju opp r Pl time, and Sol Arc Ma sq r Mo time.

--- consider that in light of the sharpest markers of the new Capsolar itself! - it does not have Sun foreground there in the mix, granted, but there's Mo foreground, which is in the framework of Ma-Sa.

Where was Joe for his SSR 2019? [edit: found] - and I couldn't find the thread where his location for SSR '20 is discussed, I think I remember seeing that, if anyone knows please post the link here.
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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Danica » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:37 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:10 pm
It's one of those ironies: Being a different place six hours later when the chart occurs won't prevent an event from happening six hours earlier before you go there.
Yep. What moving to the Ju line for the time when it officially sets would provide is protection during the 13 days following (instead of that particular Mo-Sa-Su+ Ma combo coloring these same 13 days).
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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:49 am

He appears to have been in or neaf Atlanta for his birthday.
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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Danica » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:11 pm

Does anyone know what are the potential names on the VP shortlist? I'd like to look into synastry, for those we have AA rated data.

EDIT: beautiful! Found this, with updated info on the process
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/2 ... ker-377652
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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:28 pm

The last shortlist I saw had 25 names on it. The only thing shorter we have are press speculations. Harris is top of those speculations (and with her Moon conjunct Biden's, hard to beat). Others often mentioned are Sen. Tammy Duckworth, Sen. Liz Warren (unlikely), Susan Rice (God, I hope not), Rep. Val Demings, Karen Bass (I know her niece and have had lunch with us and she's got more press attention than anyone but Harris), Mayor Keisha Bottoms, Gov. Michelle Grisham
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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:56 pm

Am interesting thing I stumbled across this morning: I'm not saying it means anything, just that it's an interesting thing.

At noon next January 20 when the new president-VP terms begin with the oath-taking, transiting Sun is 5°50' Capricorn. (It's always being to be approximately this on January 20.)

Joe Biden, whose Moon is 7°03' Aries, and Kamala Harris, whose Moon is 3°24', have their composite Moon at 5°14' Aries.
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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:20 pm

The list seems to have narrowed today. Several reports say that Harris has lost favor this week, based on opinions Biden has gotten from his confidants. Karen Bass has risen sharply in standing and might be the current favorite.

A CNN report an hour ago lists Karen Bass in strong terms but lists Harris and Rice as "among the most serious contenders."

More as a review of the process to date, the article lists others who have undergone extensive vetting:
Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, Florida Rep. Val Demings and Illinois Sen. Tammy Duckworth... Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms, Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and New Mexico Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham...
One source close to Biden said that 11 women are being "formally considered" as of this afternoon. (I've listed nine above.)
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Re: Joseph Biden's VP

Post by Danica » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:31 pm

I bet the decision will be announced when t Mercury comes conj Joe's Jupiter! i.e. 8/3 - lol, then immediately after, there follows the wave of criticism to be withstood, t Me opp r Sa :)

My personal favorite is Kamala. I think with her Rim Luminaries, it would assure for mutual understanding and cooperation, and it also fits the Pattern of the Presidential Dance of Constellations.

Her chart in itself is very interesting, with the Lights, mutually as exact as they are, being connected partile: dyn.. to Uranus and stat. to Saturn - and Saturn in Aquarius is culminating! add to it the Ur-Pl-Ve clustering from Leo, and the fact that Ma in Cancer is sq Ju: there's a picture of someone who almost instinctively tends to know/strike the proper Balance between the Old and the New, in their choices; there is Beauty and Harmonious Togetherness in the primary inner heart-compass of the Libra Sun (and there is a lot more Venus in this chart than it shows at first glance: look at the Novien!), paired with Aries' Moon's strong orientation to get-things-done.
Her Saturn to Joe's Ve-Sun is definitely a challenge, from his-perspective side of the relationship; but there is enough Jupiter on both sides to each-other's chart to balance this out. Mutual Venus to Angle speaks of true human connection and warmth in the interaction: on both sides, there's tendency to see the other as-they-are, with loving-nurturing inclination.
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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Soft Alpaca » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:43 am

I want to say something about this, the work especially in these sections as I see it from a Uranuian view point is laced with polical preferences and biases. I'm not condoning it just pointing it out.

If Biden does get elected (again trying to keep this as unassociated with politics as I can) I believe based off of his current age and upcoming SSR that his term will be short lived, which is why I believe he is being so particular with choosing his running mate. That being said I thinks she is a good choice for him astrologically, this is where my bias does come in however I don't like these old creepy white guys (which means most of congress I don't care what polical alignment) I'd love to see some new faces.

Also for what it's worth if I was the white house astrologer I would be advising Trump to pressure congress to move the election date (either forward or backwards) it may give him a better astrological chance and would throw a breaker in all the work we have been doing here...

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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:24 am

Soft Alpaca wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:43 am
I want to say something about this, the work especially in these sections as I see it from a Uranuian view point is laced with polical preferences and biases. I'm not condoning it just pointing it out.
I will agree that it is laced with political positions and preferences - biases (leanings) in that sense. I'm happy you didn't say prejudices though (as many others would and do) since no pre-judging is necessary by now.

I do believe and passionately affirm that there is nothing more important now (at all) than the fastest, most decisive removal of Trump from office. (By now, "fastest" means by the election process.) The threat he brings to the United States in particular and the world in general is unprecedented and he simply has to be taken out by whatever legal means are possible.

I don't apologize for putting everything I have into saving the world.
If Biden does get elected (again trying to keep this as unassociated with politics as I can) I believe based off of his current age and upcoming SSR that his term will be short lived, which is why I believe he is being so particular with choosing his running mate.
I agree. His election would, first of all, accomplish the most important thing: Trump's removal. It's overwhelming, landslide election would indicate that the deeper goals had been accomplished, i.e., the vast majority of voters (including former supporters) having shifted to the idea that this was an enormous mistake that can never be repeated.

There is definitely a concern about Joe's longevity, though people are living and functioning well who are 20 years his senior. Nonetheless, his chart has some health challenges. Therefore, I think it is more important than in most elections that he pick a running mate that can step, at once and easily, into the role of president.

Kamala is a powerhouse - the easiest of the batch to see as a powerful, dynamic leader going forward. It's fine line: Some of the strongest arguments against her are that she wouldn't be hiring on to be vice president, she'd be hiring on to be president. Political and interpersonal awkwardness aside, this is really exciting on the one hand; but, on the other hand, the nation is still terrified to its core of having a woman president, made worse by the idea of having a Black woman president, made worse by the fact that she takes no guff and comes on stronger and more decisively than most presidents we've ever had.'

In contrast, someone like Karen Bass - also a Black woman - flips theses advantages-disadvantages. She is enormously competent but doesn't have that automatic sense of overt power and command. (She's a Virgo, probably with a Leo Moon - which I say based on knowing her personally.) She will immediately have the respect and confidence of Congress. She has a solid head on her shoulders and a good instinct for getting things done. If she became president, she would not have the sense of intimidating power that Kamala would have but would have a little less pushback - striking less terror in her opposition - which could give her advantages. (We've had more Virgo presidents than any other Sun-sign.)

One thing to consider though is that, as a Virgo-Leo, she doesn't have the luminaries to succeed Biden (Scorpio-Aries) or Trump (Taurus-Scorpio) on the "two generation" rule. This probably means that, if she became VP, Biden will finish his term and she won't be called upon to step in. (Were Biden to be elected and die in office, his successor would need to have either a Taurus-Scorpio or Libra-Aries luminary.)
Also for what it's worth if I was the white house astrologer I would be advising Trump to pressure congress to move the election date (either forward or backwards) it may give him a better astrological chance and would throw a breaker in all the work we have been doing here...
They won't do it. For one thing, Pelosi and the Democrat-governed House of Representatives won't consider it. But, even more, Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell quickly rose to say the Senate will not consider such a thing. (And, in case we thought it a short-term political move, he followed a day or two later by announcing that Republican Senators should feel free to politically distance themselves from Trump if it helps them get re-elected.)
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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Soft Alpaca » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:23 pm

I agree with you on just about all of the except a few things Jim. First off this could be a pattern breaking election (otherwise Trump will likely be reelected as such is a pattern).

I don't think blaming him (Trump) for anything does any good either, he inherited the problem and if Biden gets elected it will be the same rhetoric of blaming one very mortal man on the problems from a broken system (the house and senate run like kings, the electorial college was a place founded by and for elite not the average man, voter ID isn't linked to tax paying citizens {think people who are working youth and unemployed adults {some of whom choose to live this way and some don't}), you can go to war and die before you can sit down at a bar and have a drink and your vote doesn't count unless there is a local tie, how many of these could easily turn the tide?).

We have states like Nevada ruling against Churches (which I'm more native in my beliefs so I don't follow the bible though I've studied many many religions) when no one wants to wake up and tell them that addiction is what runs the entire states revenue !!!(well gambling can't kill me blah blah people are just ignorant and lying to themselves as they destroy their lives).

Also we have kids running around color blind - like it's black and white and you yourself did this just now Jim by not mentioning Kamala is also of Asian decent which are just as marginalized as anyone else and just as important as her black ancestry! (They (asian americans) are getting blamed for a virus that we new existed outside of asia, which many of whom have never even been to china, and it was like small pox was to my ancestors). We have to except all life is scared, all colors,class, and culture of people, all the animals and all the forests. As someone who is mixed race I actually hate when people stand up for "my colors" it's like taking away my voice, my peoples voices. Even in protests there must be peace (look at standing rock) and yes they did eventually win, however burning down the homes and environments around us (yes including the birds and the bees) will only result in one thing, more violence and no progress.

We are repeating history here Jim, old men are in charge, people are being silenced by huge companies [like twitter or Facebook] (which congress is finally taking care of thank the creater), disease is running rampant (and like it or not big pharma is profiting that's why the frontline doctors are being silenced, sorry but I've been out of country and I know at the very least trying something like hydroxychloroquine isn't going to kill me and it's better than doing NOTHING). It's just sad because this already happened to my people once, it's like they died for nothing.

I out of all people Jim will never attack people for speaking, I'm only gay when it's convenient for people, I'm only black and native when it's convenient to people because I have white skin (I get looked at like I'm white and I just have a layer of dirt on me some people even make comments about it), I'm only the son of drug addicts and poor and jobless and grew up as a ward of the court when it's convenient for people (my highschool listed me as homeless because I was living with my stepdads parents and wasn't adopted so they could get more federal money). Most of the time Im just another "straight white male", I call myself minority convenient, everyday of my life I'm profiled by people who value colors over culture, and profited off of without my asking (many of my employers will list my ethnic background in a heartbeat when it comes to having a mixed work place).

I think americans are truly more sexist than racist however, we haven't had a woman president which just boggles my mind because in my tribe females were the leaders they read situations before principles.
I really do think to fix this is going to take a woman's or a mothers touch to fix any of this, and not the kind of woman touch that both Trump and Biden are into (sorry but not sorry).

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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:51 pm

Soft Alpaca wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:23 pm
First off this could be a pattern breaking election (otherwise Trump will likely be reelected as such is a pattern).
Agreed that it's always possible. There have been something like two of these in U.S. history in addition to (what you might want to count as a possible third) Lincoln seeming to come in outside the whole context and the the pattern continuing on as if he hadn't been in the stream.

But that would be extraordinary. Not even Trump's 2016 "pattern-breaking election" broke the pattern, since his Taurus Sun naturally succeeded Obama's Taurus Moon.
I don't think blaming him (Trump) for anything does any good either, he inherited the problem and if Biden gets elected it will be the same rhetoric of blaming one very mortal man on the problems from a broken system
I agree that this is how the politics will play, but I disagree on everything else you said in this short quote. Trump inherited on-going problems sure - but he made all of them dramatically worse and was directly causative of or complicit in all the rest, including problems that completely overwhelm anything he inherited. For example, if the U.S. had anywhere near the leadership of most other countries on earth, we would have had this contained by now instead of being the life-threatening run-away train on the planet.

Harder for me to prove, but worth my mentioning I think, is that the virus in the first place arose as part of the planet's rebellion against our continuing abuse and neglect of it. Care for the planet is a worldwide issue, to be sure, but American leadership had always been pivotal in any small gains. Trump, am embodiment of abuse and neglect in general, withdraw American leadership from the rising international wave of tackling this problem then too dozens of steps to actively enhance climate destabilization. Until 2020, this was my strongest point in saying that, literally, Trump was a direct threat to live on this planet. (I meant that in a literal, biological way.)

I agree completely with your next several lines itemizing real problems.
you yourself did this just now Jim by not mentioning Kamala is also of Asian decent
I do tend to forget this, so I plead half-guilty. (Similarly, people insist on labelling Obama a Black president even though he's half Caucasian). But her Asian half is irrelevant to my point: America would be far more accepting of an Indian president right now than another African-American president; plus, the image of an American Black woman raises outright terror and rage in large segments of the American populace. (In brief, I don't think her Tamil roots are the volatile political incendiary right now, it's her African roots.)
I think americans are truly more sexist than racist however, we haven't had a woman president which just boggles my mind because in my tribe females were the leaders they read situations before principles.
I agree: American's are more sexist than racist. First clue: Legally (which I understand is different from practical reality) Black men were given the vote half a century ahead of any women; and we elected a (half) Black man president but are unwilling to elect any woman.

The most likely path to a woman as president in the foreseeable future is if, as vice president, she inherits the job.
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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Soft Alpaca » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:30 pm

Climate destabilization is in the hands of each one of us, the people who preach about it often have 1000$ smart phones making them hypocrites. If Trump died the environment wouldn't change, we the people have to change it, we have to grow up and stop asking politicians to help. No amount of policy can help our complacency to our environment (and I mean in our city's too, no amount of oil fracking and not oil fracking will change the huge light politing cities, will change the attitude of the people and the crime and horrors that happen there) and dependency to the system is just sad. We shouldn't have to call on world leaders to plant more trees, to turn off things that don't need to be running, to save water, these are things we need to do on our own, it's called being an adult. There should be no climate summits because we are very capable of changing our habbits without having some big rule book thrown at us. Right now mother earth us taking care of it because we as individuals have been too ignorant.

As for Biden maybe he can make up for those mistakes he made (unfortunately?) by dying in office or stepping out for being sick while in office and helping a female step into power. We also can't continue to be on the same path however, people who say black lives matter are correct, but it can just be black lives Jim or else we will start to refuel fires of segregation (which as a person of mixed ethic background scares me big time). Again all life is scared.

I am curious too about Joe's old kkk connection (I'm hoping he doesn't bring a hidden surprise with him to office) and I hate to say it this way but my republican family who helped the underground railroad is still republican (PA has a lot of KKK ties and most of them who are higher up are to this day wealthy white democratic males). I'm just hoping that there is no hidden agenda, I may very well be crazy but I'm still allowed to be worried right? I mean I doubt it thoroughly but I've seen time and time again where we are just ignorant (look at this virus and tell me how many jokes we have made about something like it happening).

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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:43 pm

Are you saying you have information that Biden personal has KKK ties? I ask because I haven't heard this from even the most virulent anti-Biden posters.

I did some looking on seeing your post. Apparently there is a circulated picture purporting to show him standing next to a Grand Wizard. USA Today did a fact check and debunked it. Snopes also discredited it.

It would have been an extreme surprise, since Biden has long, strong ties to the U.S. Black communities (pre-dating his association with Obama).
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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Soft Alpaca » Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:47 pm

Wasn't a grand wizard it was a Cyclops (exalted?) of some level I believe and he did speak at his funeral calling him a mentor but this was I believe over 10 years ago and it doesn't necessarily make the person who died a bad guy or Biden an associate of the klan. I'm saying I know that but I figured I'd ask and see about any astrological hints at this.

However this information is so scewed either way I don't know what to read.

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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:35 pm

I don't know for sure what charts of malignant whitist racists would look like, but the most obvious charts I have a quite different from Biden's. (Sun in Sagittarius is the strongest factor - sometimes Leo as a background - usually backed by an angular Mars but not other forms of Mars - fortified by extreme conservatism. But this may not be a representative set.)

As I was typing this, I realized I'd never looked up the birth information of Albert Pike, the most significant figure in Scottish Rite Freemasonry for a century but also the probable author of the original KKK initiation rituals and a staunch defender of the south. Sure enough... Pike was born December 29, 1809 (in Boston, ironically). The erudite Pike had Sun in Sagittarius conjunct Mercury, both likely square his Virgo Moon. Unfortunately, we don't have a time for him.
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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Soft Alpaca » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:45 pm

See Jim I have this Sagittarius-Leo mix and a different form of pure Mars (not sure how to describe my relationship with that planet) and I am somewhat conservative (like I'm not a very outwardly gay person it's just to extra for me) as well in how I value life but very liberal in other things and I'm an anti-government and anti-monopoly (I'm conservative financially though). I guess you can call me a libertarian as I think too taking away peoples arms real does scare me (I'm native ok) and I'm a universalist as well as a firm believer in process-rational pantheism monoism and determinism. But through all of these ism's racism, bigotry, and and prejudice don't live within me.

As a rule of thumb I think perhaps why I didn't like sagittarius signs descriptions (especially compliance, which is something I know is an illusion and I make it look like I comply when really I'm just manipulating things and being sneaky) is because other Sagittarius people I meet are very very closed minded? a lot of them are too judgey and like to be the punisher and I'm way more live and let live (I'm not some hero or some hand if god here to punish the sinful or whatever). In fact btw the two sagittarius friends I do have are also heavy scorpio (not as conservative). I think asshat is in my vocabulary of words I would use to describe sagittarius folks (folks fits them better than people) I meet.

I don't see these sagittarius themes in what I see of old Joe but his Mars is definitely there.

I'm curious though why was the white southern democratic the birth of the kkk but sagittarius makes sense as the sign completely, perhaps you could make a post about pike so I can discuss it more there(?)

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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:14 pm

Soft Alpaca wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:45 pm
I don't see these sagittarius themes in what I see of old Joe but his Mars is definitely there.
No, it isn't. I was explicitly excluding Mars-ruled luminaries. I don't see them as racist, as a group. (Maybe clumsy with language, maybe inadvertently putting their foot in it. That's different.) - Mars is background and detriment.

He's primarily a Sun-Venus conjunction rising opposite a setting Uranus, with Mars and Pluto themed luminaries.
I'm curious though why was the white southern democratic the birth of the kkk but sagittarius makes sense as the sign completely, perhaps you could make a post about pike so I can discuss it more there(?)
Mid-20th century the essential positions of the two parties flipped.

Short version: Lincoln emerged as president of the new Republican party. Those who elected him (primarily the north) were against slavery. The core of the party was anti-slavery, pro individual freedom and Federal strength, etc. The Democrats (those who didn't elect Lincoln) were primarily in the South. They were wealth land-owners, committed to conservative forms of religion, and emphasized states rights as a basis of preserving slavery (the baseline of their economic strength).

The Republican president won. The Democratic land-owners lost big. Democrats were nearly excluded from top level national politics for more than half a century thereafter.

President Roosevelt brought a new wave with his New Deal. He was a New Yorker from a moneyed, connected family and had significant liberal ideas which also were practical to the immediate needs of the country during the Great Depression. The Democratic party started splitting, the conservative old school Dems in the south began calling themselves "Dixiecrats" and were the recognized strongly conservative half of the Dem party.

After WW II, General Eisenhower could have run for president as a member of either party - he wasn't politically committed - and he picked the Republicans. He reaffirmed that the Republicans were the party of freedom for everyone through civil rights, taking a strong stand (backed by Federal forces where necessary) on behalf of civil rights in the south.

Then something interesting happened: In 1960, a young New England moneyed Democrat was elected president and he and his brother were strong for civil rights. The Kennedy administration affirmed what had been historically Republican positions, and did it passionately. When JFK was killed, his socially liberal Southern Democrat vice president took this up with even greater passion. The Johnson administration pushed through the most important civil rights legislation since the Lincoln-era constitutional amendments. Johnson's Great Society social and economic plan spoke especially powerfully to "inner city" Black communities. It was a watershed era in civil rights victories.

So, what did the Republicans do? Well, the nature of politics is that you can't overthrow someone unless you can show yourself to be his (or her) opposite, so Barry Goldwater's campaign invented a pattern that every Republican campaign has used ever since: Travelling through the South calling out to racists with their own racist rhetoric (overt or coded) and stirring hatred to win votes.

The South started moving to Republicans. The Dixiecrats started leaving the Democratic Party and becoming Republicans.

Goldwater lost massively. Nixon was a racist by today's standards and a supporter of Eisenhower-spirit civil rights based on the standards of the time. Jimmy Carter was elected as a Democratic Southern governor as the South was leaking heavily toward Republicans. Carter was elected in part upon his deep religious convictions which spoke strongly both to the spirit of southerners and as a moral message to the nation at large in the aftermath of Watergate.

Then, Ronald Reagan finished the flip entirely, "sealing the deal" on the modern divisions...

Reagan had been a Democrat before he entered politics. FDR was his hero and he took the position that Roosevelt would have been a Republican in the 1980s. He politicized Roe v. Wade and assumed a moral high ground that let win the Religious Right away from a seated president who was a Southern Baptist lay minister1 (There were economic and other reasons, too.) He absorbed the last of the Dixiecrats as "Reagan Democrats." He also (less famously) also campaigned through the South as an overt racist.

By the time it was all settled, historic positions of the parties had been flipped upside down, with the Republican party becoming, in practice, committed to religious moralism, racism, and tipping economic advantage to the wealthy and away from the workaday American.
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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Soft Alpaca » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:25 pm

Yes I understand the theory behind this flip but it's just practical to say today. My family has had the same code values, life over all, business for my future, keep to my own business attitude and still is republican in this way to this day they are all middle class working folk not wealthy like a flip would suggest. They are the ones that matter and it most definitely isn't fair to "pass the racism" on to people who helped abolished it in the first place just because some presidents said so (to this day however I haven't met a racist conservative person however I have met some very very racist democratics or anti-racist as they like to call themselves). Sure ideas change adapt and evolve but you can't just shove your mistakes on to other people (however to the racist republican folks that do exist they do deserve to get called out).

Jim I see Mars in bidens chart, it's clearly there, just watching him I can see thematic Mars energy. Not associating it with racism or bigotry in that above mentioned case I should have clarified that.

Maybe this is just Pennsylvania though Jim we are a weird state.

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Re: Joseph Biden

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:42 pm

You said you were curious why the white southern Democrats birthed the KKK. I took the time to answer that. It sounds like you weren't actually curious.
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