A plan for 2024

Q&A and discussion on Sidereal Solar Returns.
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Patrick Machado
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A plan for 2024

Post by Patrick Machado » Sun Aug 27, 2023 11:32 am

My next SSR occurs February 17, 2024, 9:05 AM BRT. It features an ecliptical transiting Moon-Saturn square 0°37'.

For home, the angularities are natal Jupiter 3°28' from Midheaven and natal Venus 3°56' from Ascendant. Knowing the potency of Moon aspects in Solar Returns, there's a significant chance that the Saturn might predominate somewhat, or even largely. All in all, it seems like a mixed year in terms of benefic-malefic weighing, with an edge to the malefic pole. The outcome is probably a regular year someone might expect to have. Life as usual.

That is, of course, unacceptable. So, it's time for me to experiment with SSR relocation.

My idea is to go to Sorocaba, São Paulo. Here's a simplified breakdown of the resulting chart:

r Jupiter on M 0°01'
r Venus-Jupiter sq 0°11'
r Venus on A 0°14'
t Moon-Saturn sq 0°37'

This, at the very least, shifts the tone solidly toward benefic. Depending on how the "to the minute" natal Jupiter orb shapes up, perhaps unambiguously so. The orb of the natal Venus being at least tighter than that of the Moon-Saturn aspect certainly doesn't hurt those odds.

Non-foreground partile aspects are not a concern this year. Transiting Mars to natal Mercury, Uranus, and Eastpoint is fine. Transiting Jupiter to natal Nadir is finer. The most interesting one is the transiting middleground Venus-Pluto conjunction, ecliptically 0°10' and mundanely 0°01' in Sorocaba.

This seems like the only feasible plan, and it might even be a great one.

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Jim Eshelman
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Re: A plan for 2024

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Aug 27, 2023 11:48 am

Sounds like a great plan!

I would observe that - for anyplace in the world - the Moon-Saturn square and transiting Jupiter to natal Nadir balance things out well. (On the other hand, one of the concerns about my next SSR is that, while the close Venus-Saturn opposition is background, no matter where I go it will be across my LA natal horizon. That's the way it goes.)

Some things are the way they are no matter where you go, and in your case these two things balance out.

So tipping the scales to hyper-benefics seems a great use of the birthday, especially if there is something you'd love to do in or near Sorocaba. What are your favorite things to do in Sao Paulo? - Sorocaba seems a fascinating place for seeing history close-up, or if you happen to be deeply into geology and earth history.

I know you've already run this, but here is the chart for others to look on. No transiting planets are foreground, the main transiting influence being the Moon-Saturn aspect. It's all as you said.

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
                            Radical Planets                             
Ve 14Pi58'40"  0S 3 + 1°10'   9°15'  3N56  85°48' - 0°14'   0°14' 100% A 
Ju 14Sg48' 2"  0N11 +11'15" 280°44' 22S53   1° 4' +89°23' 270° 1' 100% M 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects  
tMo sq tSa  0°37' 99%
---------------------
rVe sq rJu  0°11'100%
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Re: A plan for 2024

Post by Patrick Machado » Sun Aug 27, 2023 12:46 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2023 11:48 am
I would observe that - for anyplace in the world - the Moon-Saturn square and transiting Jupiter to natal Nadir balance things out well.
This reads to me like you're placing more importance on a transit to a natal angle in a return chart than I would've imagined. It wasn't until recently, when I saw Steve bringing attention to those, that I paid them anything more than the most passing attention. Still, that one could at all balance out a Moon aspect is a surprising concept to me. I did, however, jest to myself that perhaps that transit plus the solar Moon-Jupiter semi-sextile 20' could theoretically make the trip unwarranted.
So tipping the scales to hyper-benefics seems a great use of the birthday, especially if there is something you'd love to do in or near Sorocaba. What are your favorite things to do in Sao Paulo?
I've never been there. In that sense, it has the value of a first experience. I did initially think about staying for a couple of days and making it more of a thing, but budget is tight and I'm thinking of simply going for the moment of the Return and, well, returning before having extra expenses. My mind is set on (a) hopefully reaping the fruits back home of the SSR for where it set up, yet (b) willing to observe for myself to what extent it's so. On that last point, I'm also interested in watching transits to radix vs. relocated solar angles throughout the year. (In this case, that only leaves 11-12° Spoke to be watched meaningfully.)

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Re: A plan for 2024

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Aug 27, 2023 1:03 pm

Patrick Machado wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2023 12:46 pm
This reads to me like you're placing more importance on a transit to a natal angle in a return chart than I would've imagined.
They're always important simply as a transit. I wrote of it this way back in Interpreting Solar Returns. I don't think of them as a new angularity but as a partile transit. I don't mention them often primarily because none of the ways I look at returns make them obvious so I miss them. (Mike and I forgot to go out of the way to include these transits in TMSA, and had it tagged as a minor future improvement.)
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Re: A plan for 2024

Post by Patrick Machado » Sun Aug 27, 2023 1:09 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2023 1:03 pm
They're always important simply as a transit.
Much like the planet-to-planet ones, or distinctly more so due to an angle being involved?

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Re: A plan for 2024

Post by Patrick Machado » Mon Feb 05, 2024 2:45 pm

An update on this as the SSR approaches. I found that the natal Venus on EP in RA line goes through Santa Catarina (i.e., the neighbouring state). It's around 5' from exact in Joinville and could be fine-tuned there. The São Paulo idea, then, is not worth it--entailing about double the distance and cost--and has been discarded. (It did have the theoretical benefit of more pointedly compensating Saturn with Jupiter.)

Weighing whether to go for this or not has made relevant to me, for the first time, the question of how exactly accurate my birth time is. It's certainly accurate enough for most purposes, but it could easily be off just enough to cancel out an attempted "planet on an angle to the minute" effect in a return chart. (And with this chart already sitting on the borderline of being worth adjusting, it could be hard to assess the outcome.)

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Re: A plan for 2024

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Feb 05, 2024 3:11 pm

Santa Catarina is the state, right? If we were to assume your birthtime is precisely right, it looks like Curitiba is a bit to far west, Florianopolis a little too far east, so... Blumenau? That puts natal Venus 0°08' from EP-a and natal Jupiter 1°29' from MC, all quite nice and a counterbalance to the Moon-Saturn conjunction.

But, as you say, they are also foreground (though moderately instead of tightly) for your home.

Your birth time is a five-minute interval of the hour. From experience with your chart, how close d you think it is? We could test a few major events.
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Re: A plan for 2024

Post by Patrick Machado » Mon Feb 05, 2024 6:50 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2024 3:11 pm
Santa Catarina is the state, right? If we were to assume your birthtime is precisely right, it looks like Curitiba is a bit to far west, Florianopolis a little too far east, so... Blumenau? That puts natal Venus 0°08' from EP-a and natal Jupiter 1°29' from MC, all quite nice and a counterbalance to the Moon-Saturn conjunction.
Yes, pretty much the same deal as Joinville, which, though a little farther away, is the biggest city in the state, so possibly more reliable to get to, and the overall distance might make for a more efficient quick round trip.
From experience with your chart, how close d you think it is? We could test a few major events.
Very close. It could be about a minute off. I don't have any positive reason to think that it is, but none to discard the possibility either, while more time off would start distorting the angles too much for it to be plausible.

I can come up with some events later, if relevant. I have to get to sleep--there's an event tomorrow (I'll share what it is soon).

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Re: A plan for 2024

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Feb 06, 2024 7:35 am

Patrick Machado wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2024 6:50 pm
From experience with your chart, how close d you think it is? We could test a few major events.
Very close. It could be about a minute off. I don't have any positive reason to think that it is, but none to discard the possibility either, while more time off would start distorting the angles too much for it to be plausible.

I can come up with some events later, if relevant. I have to get to sleep--there's an event tomorrow (I'll share what it is soon).
Anything under four or five minute error is hard to narrow with certainty because the technique that tighten it usually have orbs of about 1° on the angles. Nonetheless, when (over time) those small differences suggest much more often that it should be "a tad earlier" rather than "a tad late" (or the opposite) - of that they're always "about right" and don't really lean earlier or later - you can be pretty confident about whether there is a measurable error and which way it tips.

We might start by seeing if there are any "leap out at us" Solar Arcs involving time-sensitive angles. These do have an orb of 1° either direction, though they are more likely to peak very close to a 00' orb (a degree is workable; half a degree is more common; 5' to 10' is not rare; etc.). Here are some exact dates of directed planets crossing natal angles or directed angles crossing natal planets (allow a year either side of these dates; we are only looking for major events OR a clear demarcation of a period that has a clearly-defined characteristic similar).

Aug 20 1996 - d Uranus sq r MC
Apr 25 1998 - d MC sq r Moon
Feb 18 2000 - d Moon co r Asc
Mar 31 2002 - d Neptune sq r MC
Apr 29 2002 - d Mercury co r Asc
Oct 31 2002 - d Uranus co r Asc
Jun 16 2008 - d Neptune co r Asc
Feb 12 2015 - d Asc co r Sun
Aug 22 2018 - d Asc co r Mars
Dec 16 2018 - d Venus op r MC
Feb 19 2019 - d Jupiter sq r MC
Mar 22 2020 - d Asc sq r Pluto
May 16 2021 - d MC sq r Sun
Nov 27 2024 - d MC sq r Mars
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SSR 2024

Post by Patrick Machado » Sun Feb 18, 2024 4:58 pm

For a few reasons, I didn't travel for this SSR, the main one being that I didn't feel like it, which speaks to how pressing I considered it. Not maximizing the natal benefics also makes it a more interesting astrological piece to watch, I reckon. Here's a detailed breakdown of how it set up. (It still doesn't show everything that potentially intrigues me.)

r Jupiter on M 3°28'
r Venus on A 3°56'

t Moon-Saturn sq 0°37'

r Venus-Jupiter sq 0°11'

Non-foreground:
t Jupiter oc r Saturn 3'
t Jupiter on r N 7'
t Venus-Pluto co 10'
r Mars-Pluto sq 12'
t Mars on r EP 15'
t Mars co r Mercury 17'
t Mercury-Uranus sq 34'
t Mars co r Uranus 48'

(Bonus: Transiting Moon-Jupiter-Uranus in close 10° multiple aspects.)

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