A comparison of angles - testing

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Jim Eshelman
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A comparison of angles - testing

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:59 pm

I have a larger theme in mind for this thread, but at the moment I'm just going to gather some data. I have a collection of about 50 well-timed charts with experiences of violence or death (and often violent death). I'm going to tabulate SLR angularities (transiting planets only) according to several different angle models (all mundane except the necessary ecliptical 'squares').

Sun
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 4
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 3
Z/N/EP/WP Class 1-2: 2
Vx/Ax 3° 2
NP/SP: 1

Moon
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 3
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 4
Z/N/EP/WP Class 1-2: 4
Vx/Ax 3° 3
NP/SP: 1

Mercury
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 4
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 5
Z/N/EP/WP Class 1-2: 3
Vx/Ax 3° 2
NP/SP: 1

Venus
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 1
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 5
Z/N/EP/WP Class 1-2: 2
Vx/Ax 3° 1
NP/SP: 1

Mars
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 8
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 5
Z/N/EP/WP Class 1-2: 7
Vx/Ax 3° 3
NP/SP: 1

Jupiter
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 3
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 5
Z/N/EP/WP Class 1-2: 2
Vx/Ax 3° 4
NP/SP: 2

Saturn
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 4
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 5
Z/N/EP/WP Class 1-2: 2
Vx/Ax 3° 2
NP/SP: 1

Uranus
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 7
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 4
Z/N/EP/WP Class 1-2: 3
Vx/Ax 3° @
NP/SP: 1

Neptune
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 4
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 6
Z/N/EP/WP Class 1-2: 5
Vx/Ax 3° 1
NP/SP: @

Pluto
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 9
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 6
Z/N/EP/WP Class 1-2: 2
Vx/Ax 3° @
NP/SP: 2
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Re: A comparison of angles - testing

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:02 am

One of the things I was testing for (again - I've done it before) is that the Vertex system is not usefully involved in SLRs. That view was upheld. There are subtleties here worth observing.

First, for these events that were all violent and/or death, and usually violent or especially tragic death (several ODs in the mix), the malefics hold sway. Here are the scores of only Class 1 contacts to the horizon and meridian (Asc, MC, Dsc, IC):

Pluto 9
Mars 8
Uranus 7
Neptune 4
Saturn 4
Mercury 4
Sun 4
Moon 3
Jupiter 3
Venus 1

The pattern is quite clear and astrologically satisfying. Pluto, Mars, and Uranus dominate the list - easy markers of death and violence - while Venus and Jupiter are least often closely angular. This not only reasserts the basic validity and interpretive premise of SLRs, it shows us that - our prejudices aside - these charts overall are communicating Pluto and Mars themes and NOT expressing Venus and Jupiter themes. (Saturn and Neptune were less frequent than Mars, Pluto, and Uranus).
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Re: A comparison of angles - testing

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:18 am

°Next, scan the list above comparing Class 1 and Class 2 angularities. You'll see an interesting pattern contrasting the malefics and benefics. Class 2 angularities (3-7°) slightly drop off for malefics but sharply increase for benefics. What does this mean? It is:
  • Benefics are indeed foreground in SLRs for violence and death (e.g., most of these were celebrity deaths), but they don't tend to be CLOSELY angular - they are secondary ("support") factors.
  • The planets most consistent with violence and death are not only foreground frequently, they tend to be CLOSELY foreground for violent and deadly events.
For example, Venus only has one CLOSE (Class 1) angularity, but 5 Class 2. Jupiter has 3 close, 5 wider. These shied away from CLOSE contact with the angles, then added their details in a secondary way.

In contrast, Mars was strong for both but stronger for closer: 8 Class 1, 5 Class 2. Pluto tapered from 9 to 6. Uranus (which was present for sudden, often explosive accidents) tapered from 7 to 4. These all remain strong showings, but it's valuable to see the exact sort of tapering importance that we see in SLRs: One needs to tell the "main story" from the closest angularities before incorporating wider ones. (This is exactly what we've taught on this site with regard to angularities and aspects.)

The four mid-range planets - neither the strongest nor the weakest overall - had very little change between Class 1 and Class 2 occurrence.

Here is a simplified breakdown to show these details:

Venus
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 1
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 5

Jupiter
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 3
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 5


Pluto
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 9
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 6

Mars
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 8
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 5

Uranus
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 7
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 4


Neptune
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 4
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 6

Sun
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 4
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 3

Moon
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 3
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 4

Mercury
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 4
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 5

Saturn
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 1: 4
Asc/MC/IC/Dsc Class 2: 5
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Re: A comparison of angles - testing

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:25 am

Squares to Asc and MC - by which I really mean conjunctions with Zenith, Nadir, Eastpoint, and Westpoint - are going to be fewer in number because they get smaller orbs. Here is the list of only that type of contact:

7 - Mars
5 - Neptune
4 - Moon
3 - Mercury, Uranus
2 - Sun, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Pluto

Mostly these are boring - all sitting in a moderate range of 2 or 3. However, even with small 2° orbs, the Mars contacts leap out of the pack for violence and death, with more than two or three times the number of most planets. (Neptune isn't far behind.) Again, these contacts are important and clearly show the basic nature of the events.

Here are the rankings adding Class 1 (close) contact with horizon and meridian plus the contacts to Zenith-Nadir and Eastpoint-Westpoint, probably our most optimizing grouping:

Mars 15
Pluto 11
Uranus 10
Neptune 9
Mercury 7
Moon 7
Saturn 6
Sun 6
Jupiter 5
Venus 3

With only about 50 charts, this is a remarkable and pleasing outcome: The list speaks for itself. Look at the top entry, the top four entries, and the bottom two entries for these events of violence and death. (Remember: These are only transiting planets in the SLR. Examining individual cases suggests that the pattern would be similar with natal planets incorporated, but I'll do those when I have a LOT more time.)

Just for completion, here is a combination of Class 1 and Class 2 major angle contacts plus the squares: Both close AND wide contacts to horizon and meridian, plus the Z/N/EP/WP. (That is, the last list plus wider horizon and meridian contacts.)

Mars 20
Pluto 17
Neptune 15
Uranus 14
Mercury 12
Saturn 11
Moon 11
Jupiter 10
Sun 9
Venus 8

The effects shift a little. That is, they are diluted just a touch when wider angularities are weighted the same as strong angularities. Nonetheless, Mars and Pluto still hold the top, while Venus and Jupiter are two of the three least-angular planets.
'
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Re: A comparison of angles - testing

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:38 am

We've already learned a lot - really valuable things that confirm and sharpen how we already approach SLRs. Now, let's turn to the question of the Vertex, Antivertex, and their squares.

First, be clear that planets were not counted as on Vertex etc. if they were already on one of the other angles. This removes "statistical noise" - instances where one simply couldn't tell if the Vertex system was operating because the planets were already in a foreground zone which (as demonstrated above) gives strong expression to the appropriate planets.

Furthermore, this approach targets the specific question I wanted to answer - which is not, so much, "Is the Vertex valid," but, rather, "Does including the Vertex system add anything to the interpretation of SLRs?"

Here is the frequency of each planet conjunct the Vertex or Antivertex within 3° mundanely, i.e., within 3° of 90° or 270° azimuth.

4- Jupiter
3- Moon, Mars
2 - Sun, Mercury, Saturn
1 - Venus, Neptune
0 - Uranus, Pluto

Wow - what a difference! First, notice that ALL the numbers are lower. Nothing stands out from the pack except maybe the surprising top dog - Jupiter. (Jupiter was consistently one of the lowest with the known-good angles.) The two lowest are Uranus and Pluto, which were two of the three most common in the first tabulation above.

From this tabulation we can draw the conclusion that these contacts with the Vertex and Antivertex did NOT add meaningful angularities that describe the violence and death of these charts. Quite the opposite!

This is quite similar to what I discovered in two different studies of Vertex and Antivertex - one with ecliptical contacts, one with mundane contacts - in Sidereal mundane astrology. For a collection of hundreds of tragic events (most of them "worst of their kind"), the other angles show a dramatic pattern of Mars and Saturn being most commonly closely angular (Class 1) with Venus and Jupiter being at the bottom. However, when I recalculated the solar and lunar ingresses, Jupiter and Venus were the most common planets on the Vertex and Antivertex! I probably would have taken this to mean that the Vertex system suppresses planet expression (like "super-background" points) except that the statistical effect wasn't strong enough to justify that anything at all was happening - the tally just showed Venus and Jupiter most commonly on the Vx/Av for events that were demonstrably Mars-Saturn (and non-Venus-Jupiter) events.

It's easy to understand that if malefics are most commonly on angles for these events and then we exclude those cases where a planet is already foreground, that's going to give us something of a "flipped" profile, one where planets not angular for the event get the most hits - but it's still evident (back to my original question) that the Vx/Av brought nothing on their own. They were not acting like angles at all.

For completion - even though it doesn't change much - here are the Vertex-Antivertex numbers adding in the Northpoint-Southpoint numbers (squares to Vertex):

6- Jupiter
4 - Moon, Mars
3 - Sun, Mercury, Saturn
2 -Venus, Pluto
1 - Uranus, Neptune
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