Solar Arc Directions

General Discussion on Transit & Progression matters for which a specific forum does not exist
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Jim Eshelman
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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:56 am

SteveS wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:47 am
JFK Assassination:
SA Boyd Mars 11,28 Pi
r Boyd Saturn 11,20 Vir
Good symbolism! Although for November 22, 1963, 13:30 EST I get solar arc Mars 12°00' Pisces. Still partile, but not nearly as close. - For the same event, you can add:
d Neptune (4°54' Pisces) op. r Mars (5°47' Virgo)
(Your Mars position is what you get if you use Q1 progressed Sun.)
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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by SteveS » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:33 am

Thanks Jim.

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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by SteveS » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:29 am

You can also use solar arc lengths to trace the developments in a relationship. Seeing how one person’s current solar arc is setting off the planetary pairs in the other’s natal chart is an easy and effective way to uncover the issues that one partner is currently experiencing as the result of being in a relationship with the other.
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Solar arc direction is one of the oldest predictive techniques in astrology.
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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:25 pm

For what it's worth...

In practice, I haven't found that progressions or directions of one person's chart to another's planets means anything (although progressed-to-progressed can mean a lot: one important decades-spanning relationship has our progressed Suns in perpetual partile square, and another long-lasting one rose and fell substantially on how our progressed Moons remained in partile orb of conjunct each other for years).

In my 20s I watched this a lot because, well, I was a young man with my particular chart and was routinely assessing odds of, er, success with someone based on chart connections. Basic synastry was useful, but it also gave lessons (learned only with embarrassment) that a woman's progressed Venus aspecting my natal Mars or her progressed Mars aspecting my natal Venus didn't mean a thing. (Same with directions.)

You did alert me to something curious to check... and, while I'm not sure it persuades me of its value, it's at least an interesting thing people might want to watch. It's looking at solar arc to solar arc. This is theoretically really interesting, because (given age difference) it won't at all be the same as natal-to-natal but (for the most part) will stay exactly the same for life. (Each person's solar arc planets move at slightly different speeds, so some aspects may move in and out of orb across many years or decades, but mostly they will stay the same.) Just do the two solar arc charts for any event at all and compare them: the aspects will be more or less permanent.

My first shot at checking this gives a contrary (or at least mixed) result. The main effect is that Marion's directed Saturn is in perpetual opposition to my directed Mercury - ill-fitting since quality communication is a hallmark of our relationship. It might be confused by the fact that (given her exact Mercury-Saturn square) her directed Mercury is in perpetual opposition to my directed Mercury. I won't accept lazy interpretations like, "lots of communication, and we really work at it," so I'm not sure what to make of this, but it's a new idea (to me) to explore.

Some other examples (now that you caught my interest on this):

A friend with whom I almost had a child has her d Venus in perpetual conjunction with my d Venus (square my d Pluto) and her d MC to my d Neptune.

A relationship that was quite important at the time (but the time was short) had no connections; oh, wait, her d MC is perpetually conjunct my d Saturn, which does reflect the "off more than on" circumstances. (Another relationship that i could describe in almost the same words had no directed-to-directed aspects at all other than a perpetual Neptune-to-Neptune conjunction.)

A partner for almost a decade (the one with whom I had progressed Moons in perpetual conjunction for years) had her d Moon perpetually conjunct my Ascendant.

woman with whom I had a fiercely physical relationship (on and off, out of state) for two or three years (two or three times a year) had her d Mars perpetually square my d Mars, her d Venus perpetually square my d Moon. (That's pretty good!)

My first wife is an interesting example. Our ages weren't too different, and nearly all the important aspects (her Moon square my Sun, her Venus-Jupiter opposite my Moon) were partile in the birth charts but "slipped" a couple of degrees by matching solar arcs. An exception is that her d Asc becomes exactly my d Venus (square Pluto), rather than the 2° it has in the natals.

My solar arcs to Anna-Kria's (the longest-term pairing of my life, across decades) has the perpetual mutual square of our Suns (already there in secondary progressions, of course) and adds her Venus to my Venus-Pluto. Accurate enough, of course, but not compelling.

A relationship that burned very hot for way too short of a time had only the perpetual aspect of her Uranus conjunct my MC. I suspect I've written similar words about Uranus-themed relationships in the past, so it might be fine enough, though it's not the main flavor of the relationship.

GENERAL CONCLUSIONS: A first impression is that these are uneven, not uniformly reliable but, on balance, quite solid. (For example, the few that had serious problems always had a complicating further factor that leaves open that they might be OK after all.) Most interesting to me is that - being life-long, more or less perpetual aspects, they might be more expressive in relationships that either endure for years, or at least for those we enter into with the possibility that they might endure for years.(Just a preliminary thought.)
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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:01 pm

PS - Since these do change *(slowly) across the years), I thought I'd update Marion's and mine (which I examined above for many years ago). The aspects have indeed changed. (I picked the date of our pending wedding as an obvious date for "about now, this year.")

Most distinctive is that her directed Sun is now in partile orb of "perpetual" opposition to my directed Venus (0°40') and square my Pluto.
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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by SteveS » Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:56 pm

Thanks Jim for your input. Until today I never heard of Solar Arc with synestry charts. Yes, I can see how they may offer info for certain long term relationships, interesting.

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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by SteveS » Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:52 am

There is an excellent book on Solar Arc Directing:

"Solar Arcs," Astrology's Most Successful Predictive System, by Noel Tyl

I read/studied this book many years ago, but it was before I had Solarfire with it's Solar Arc functions. I had forgotten about this book but reread it the last two days and highly recommend this book for astrologers interested in Solar Arc Directing. I will eventually get around to posting some of Noel's fine examples for our review.

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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by SteveS » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:30 pm

There are some astounding Solar Arc examples in Noel Tyl’s book ‘Solar Arcs.’
Here is one for Queen Victoria, Natal Chart link # 1: First note her Natal Jupiter at 24,42 Cap. Second note her MC at 7,31,42 Cap. On June 20, 1837 Victoria became Queen of England. Her Solar Arc Natal MC on the date she becomes Queen Solar Arcs to 24,47 Cap partile cnj her Natal Jupiter at 24,42 Cap. At the same time, punctuating this Solar Arc period, we have her Secondary Progressed Moon conjunct her Natal Midheaven. This is seen in the bi-wheel chart link # 2, inside wheel Secondary Progressed chart for the date of her crowning, outside wheel her Natal Chart showing her Natal MC at 7,32 Cap and her Secondary Progressed Moon at 7,50 Cap
1: https://imgur.com/a/r8PBdXT
2: https://imgur.com/a/2NKrjNo

Noel Tyl writes about this example:
From this example, we learn something very important about procedure and interpretation. Since we are working with a generalization of one degree = one year, our time orb for this Natal MC arc is one year. We then will see, time and time again, that the Secondary Progressed Moon can refine the specific time of arc manifestation (as it does here) and, above all, there will almost invariably be a major transit to trigger the symbolism of the Solar Arc.
We see in this example t. Jupiter 23,33 Can tightly opposed SA MC and Natal Jupiter.
Noel also states:
NOTE: in predictive astrology, there is nothing more important than the Angles of the natal horoscope. The Angles define our orientation to this life. It is safe to say that nothing vitally important in life development occurs without angular contact---or with the Sun or Moon. Angles are crucial.
Last edited by SteveS on Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:45 pm

SteveS wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:30 pm
Here is one for Queen Victoria, Natal Chart link # 1: First note her Natal Jupiter at 24,42 Cap. Second note her MC at 7,31,42 Cap.
Queen Victoria, who was born at 4:15 AM, has natal MC 10°11' Capricorn, which means her solar arc MC was 27°30' Capricorn, about 3° past the Jupiter.

It;s not that she doesn't have solar arcs maturing, it's that she doesn't have that obvious, excellent one She does have:
d Asc op. r Uranus 0°07'
d Jupiter sq. r Moon 0°32'
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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by SteveS » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:58 pm

In Noel's Book he gives a birth time of 4:04 AM LMT for Victoria. Is he mistaken with this birth time?

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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:07 pm

SteveS wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:58 pm
In Noel's Book he gives a birth time of 4:04 AM LMT for Victoria. Is he mistaken with this birth time?
Yes. Royal birth times are recorded with great precision and care. You can check it here:
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Vi ... of_England

Regarding the time, Astro.com says: "Letter in hand from the Curator of the Court Dress Collection, Kensington Palace, Steinbrecher. Same from Alan Leo in Modern Astrology 8/1895; same in Sabian Symbols No.933; Sy Scholfield quotes same from official bulletin in "London Gazette, Kensington-Palace, May 24," The Times [London], 26 May 1819, p. 2."
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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by SteveS » Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:17 pm

Thanks Jim, I now believe Noel must have used his own rectification. Members, please disregard my Queen Victoria post.

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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by Kerstin » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:33 am

Hi,

I`ve been reading in that forum for quite a while and it`s been given me much food for thought.

When I read this here, I felt very compelled to register. What you mention here:

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:25 pm
It's looking at solar arc to solar arc. This is theoretically really interesting, because (given age difference) it won't at all be the same as natal-to-natal but (for the most part) will stay exactly the same for life. (Each person's solar arc planets move at slightly different speeds, so some aspects may move in and out of orb across many years or decades, but mostly they will stay the same.) Just do the two solar arc charts for any event at all and compare them: the aspects will be more or less permanent.

I´ve been thinking of this for a few years, and called it for myself "synchronized solar arc". I am still researching it, but so far I`ve found it very interesting in

a) that it seemed to explain why some wider orbed aspects seemed to work far better than I would have expected them to (usually I found they were partile by solar arc synchronization) and

b) it seemed to really play a role and become evident if one person was having a solar direction becoming exact, like for example person A having solar arc Mars conjunct natal Pluto, and that solar arc Mars being squared by person B`s solar arc ASC. Of course this one is not for the faint at heart. lol But very transformative.

But I actually only have some random examples, so I wouldn´t claim this to be the ultimate truth, but interesting enough to keep checking charts, and being surprised again and again usually.

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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by SteveS » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:39 am

Kerstin wrote:
I´ve been thinking of this for a few years, and called it for myself "synchronized solar arc". I am still researching it, but so far I`ve found it very interesting in
a) that it seemed to explain why some wider orbed aspects seemed to work far better than I would have expected them to (usually I found they were partile by solar arc synchronization) and
b) it seemed to really play a role and become evident if one person was having a solar direction becoming exact, like for example person A having solar arc Mars conjunct natal Pluto, and that solar arc Mars being squared by person B`s solar arc ASC. Of course this one is not for the faint at heart. lol But very transformative. But I actually only have some random examples, so I wouldn´t claim this to be the ultimate truth, but interesting enough to keep checking charts, and being surprised again and again usually.

Interesting Kerstin--thanks for your input-- and welcome to the forum. I have no experience with Solar Arc comparison charts and depend on Jim's judgments/insights with this issue. But be sure to keep us informed with your experiences/insights with Solar Arc comparisons/examples, particularly your named "synchronized solar arc". I do know many people on this forum are very interested in synastry charts.

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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:27 pm

Steve, here's one of my favorite Solar Arc examples: John Kennedy for his assassination. He was on a lifelong collision course with 1963. Especially look at the two-way Mars-Pluto!

23°09' Taurus - r Venus
23°27' Leo - d Neptune
23°37' Leo - r Moon

14°15' Taurus - r Sun
14°33' Leo - d MC

9°13' Gemini - d Mars
9°41' Gemini - r Pluto

24°03' Cancer - d Pluto
24°50' Aries - r Mars

Let me show you a trick that Uranian astrologers use, that spread into Cosmobiology. One looks for partile hard aspects natally, then follows them to where double aspects are triggered by solar arcs. Kennedy had Mars-Pluto semi-square at his birth. You can use the "Difference Listing" report in Solar Fire to get all the distances between planet pairs, including that his Mars and Pluto are 44°50' apart (almost exactly a semi-square). When he is about 45 years old, Mars would move 45° up to conjoin Pluto, and Pluto (already 45° from his Mars) would move another 45° to where it is now 90° from his Mars - voila, double Mars-Pluto aspects igniting a natal Mars-Pluto aspect. (Kennedy's Solar Arc at death was 44°23'.)

You can add nuance to this using the Difference Listing report in Solar Fire - just using the Difference Listing on a 90° sort to "walk you through" what aspects will get triggered. Also near his solar arc of 44°23' at death, we have these natal arcs:

44°04' Neptune-Venus
44°04' Midheaven-Sun
44°32' Neptune-Moon

Notice how this captures all the solar arc aspects found above.

So, currently my progressed Sun is 64°40'. On the 90°-sorted Difference Listing, I see, within a degree of 64°40', the following:

64°29' Moon-Venus (11' sep.)
64°42' Moon-Pluto (2' ap.)
64°56' Sun-Moon (16' ap.)
65°07' Mercury-Sun (27' ap)

At 0°05' a month, without even calculating the chart, I can see that I had Venus to my Moon about 2 months ago (when Marion learned her divorce was final and we started planning the wedding), Moon to my Pluto almost exactly now, Sun to my Moon in about 3 months (this was used o pick the wedding date), and Mercury to my Sun in about 5 months. When you look at my solar arcs, you'll see these are all there - and we got all the conjunctions, oppositions, and squares just by looking at the 90° sort on planet differences.

Or, let's look at your chart. Currently your progressed Sun is 71°12' from your natal Sun. Looking at your Difference Listing (sorted on 90°), within 1° of this value I see one entry:

71°56' Mercury-Uranus

So, you are already feeling solar arc Mercury to your natal Uranus, which will be exact in 44' minutes, or about 9 months.
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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by Kerstin » Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:21 am

thank you for the welcome. I will keep on reading here (and keeping an eye on the solar arcs, too).

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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by SteveS » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:51 am

8-) , yes Jim, I see/understand everything in your post here. It is clearly obvious the right TIME has arrived astrologically with Solar Arc’s for you to marry your mate, Marion :) . And yes, right after you posted a couple of weeks ago about a Solar Arc aspect, it kick my mind into overdrive reminding me the importance of Solar Arcs, I had forgotten all about em with my retired mind being absorbed in Sidereal Astrology.

Jim wrote:
Or, let's look at your chart. Currently your progressed Sun is 71°12' from your natal Sun. Looking at your Difference Listing (sorted on 90°), within 1° of this value I see one entry: 71°56' Mercury-Uranus. So, you are already feeling solar arc Mercury to your natal Uranus, which will be exact in 44' minutes, or about 9 months.
Exactly Jim, and believe me right after you reminded me the importance of Solar Arcs a couple of weeks ago, I raced to my Solar Arc list and immediately saw that SA Mercury=NA Uranus influencing my being with its partile orb. Shortly afterward I calendared a possible major business dealing centered on this exact SA Mercury=NA Uranus in 2020. And as you can see with my recent posts about Solar Arcs with the Boyd Chart, this SA Mercury=Na Mercury is absolutely manifesting mentally in my life as a possible BIG BINGO relative to my primary life interest. Also, my Natal features that partile 90 Sun-Uranus which is a potential Paran with my Sun rising and Uranus culminating everyday of my life on a diurnal basis. Years ago, when I learned from you about potential Parans, I have always contributed this partile 90 Sun-Uranus potential Paran as being the primary aspect responsible for me never going a DAY without thinking about Sidereal Astrology, which fills my being with much Uranus excitement. Actually this SA Mercury will form a partile T-square with my Natal 90 Sun-Uranus in 2020, finally an important major SA aspect in my life my retired mind can get really excited about the future in 2020 with new personal learnings and other exciting mental stimulus. :) So, get ready for my barrage of posts/questions to you with questions offering me better mental clarity with your vast knowledge/experience with Sidereal Astrology. :)

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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by Arena » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:27 am

Jim said:
Most distinctive is that her directed Sun is now in partile orb of "perpetual" opposition to my directed Venus (0°40') and square my Pluto.
There is actually someone called Paul Westran who has done research about progressions and his findings are in line with what you said, his book is all about Sun - Venus. Progressed to progressed and progressed to natal. His research reveals that the effective orb is 2.° I know the solar arcs will be different, but his book is very interesting.

I have his book. It is a study of 1300 celebrity and historical relationships, backed with details and charts. Here is the book
https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/ ... edir_esc=y

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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by Arena » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:59 am

I am just now checking my directed chart to my partner when we met back in March 2007. Although I am not married to him, he is the longest lasting relationship I've had in my life.

At the time we met looking at dir to dir charts (for my bt being 23.40).
His d Moon partile quinc my d Jup
My d Moon is on the midpoint opp his d Mars&Uranus.
My d Venus partile sextile his d Venus and within 2 from trine his d Jup.
His d Venus partile trine my d Jup.
My d. Mars partile sq his d Uranus.
His d Mars quinc and his d Pluto trine my d Saturn

Other observations:
His d. Venus within 2° from my n. Pluto and his d ASC within 3°.
His d Moon partile sq my n. Neptune.
His d Sun partile my n. Uranus (we moved to Slovenia 6 months after meeting).
His d Mer partile sq my n. Sun.
His d Jup conj. my n. Nep.
- his Pluto comes to my d Uranus and partile sq my n. Mer at the time.
My d Saturn sq his n. Saturn
My d Mer on his n. Sun
IF my bt is 23.40 then his d. MC lines up with my ASC, his d ASC and Sun line up with my rel. WP (Rvk) my d ASC lines up partile to his n. Moon and his d. Nep is on my MC when we met.
IF my bt is 23.18 then his d. Sun would be within minutes from my n. EP and his d Nodes on my ASC as well as his d Pluto on my d WP when we met ).

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Princess Diana - wedding & death

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:20 pm

When Diana married Charles in the world's dream wedding of its day and elevated to royalty, her partile Solar Arc directions, from closest on, were:

d Jupiter sq. r Venus 0°09'
t Mercury sq. r MC 0°42'
d Jupiter conj. r Moon 0°47'
d Jupiter op. r Uranus 0°55'
d Sun op. r Saturn 1°00' [separating: it was the week the progression/direction ended]

For her death, she had only wider ones, though accurate:

d Saturn op. r Mars 0°42'
d Mercury sq. r Neptune 0°54'
d Pluto sq. r Sun 0°55'
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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by SteveS » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:43 am

A link offering some good info about Solar Arc Directions.

https://hniizato.com/solar-arc-vs-secon ... ogression/

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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by SteveS » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:13 am

Calculations are made for the birthplace (in Secondary Progressions, Solar Arcs, and Tertiaries). But geography plays no role. pg. 18 footnoted by Noel Tyl, 'Solar Arcs.

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Re: Solar Arc Directions

Post by SteveS » Tue May 14, 2019 5:42 am

In 2004, Terry Melcher, Doris Day Son died of Melanoma.

Doris Day: April 3 1922, 4:30 PM, Cincinnati, Ohio. AA rated

SA Pluto 90 NA Moon, Feb 24 2004

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Melcher

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