Antiscion

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FraterAC
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Antiscion

Post by FraterAC » Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:55 am

Has anyone here used the antiscion as promittor with progressions or transits?

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Jim Eshelman
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Re: Antiscion

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:26 am

FraterAC wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:55 am
Has anyone here used the antiscion as promittor with progressions or transits?
I know what every word in that sentence means, AC, except I don't know what they mean all together. Do you mean taking antiscions that transits and progressions form to natal planets?

Welcome to Solunars, btw.
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Re: Antiscion

Post by FraterAC » Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:11 pm

I mean the antiscion positions of the planets and angles as receivers of aspects from progressed or transiting planets. As if they were radical positions themselves.
I have found observing them explains manifestations (shall we say) not otherwise explainable.

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Re: Antiscion

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:53 pm

I've barely paid attention, though I would expect at least modest importance. I never found anything that overly excited, but always a little interesting.

I think the most important thing to remember about antiscions is that they aren't "tbings" in themselves but are simply special case examples of midpoints. For familiar with the term, the antiscion of a planet is that point exactly the same distance on the opposite side of the summer-winter solstice line (i.e., square the vernal point). In the Tropical zodiac they are easy enough to see: for example, the antiscion of my Tropical Sun longitude (16°34' Libra) is 13°26' Pisces (or, by various allowances, 13°26' of any Tropical Mutable sign). Sidereally, these are harder to see: The practical way to find antiscions created natally is to add the Vernal Point to a 90° wheel and look for midpoints to it..

I think the reason they look to me to be at least interesting but very little more (i.e., quite weak indicators) is that they are one leg of a midpoint. To say, for example, that transiting Mars was recently at the antiscion of my natal Uranus is to create the midpoint picture: r VP = r Uranus / t Mars. There's likely something to it, but not a very strong "something."
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FraterAC
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Re: Antiscion

Post by FraterAC » Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:33 pm

The points I'm referring to are points the same distance from the tropical Cancer-Capricorn axis (not Aries-Libra). This would be at birth -- the points do no move. So a point equating to Aries 5:20 tropical would have its Antiscion point at 24:40 Virgo. Those Antiscion points could be converted to their sidereal positions.
I can see why this might be greeted with modest enthusiasm given its tropical derivation.
That said, these points are very meaningful in regard to progressions and transits in my experience.
Just offering this to the general readership of this forum.

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Re: Antiscion

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:43 pm

FraterAC wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:33 pm
The points I'm referring to are points the same distance from the tropical Cancer-Capricorn axis (not Aries-Libra). This would be at birth -- the points do no move. So a point equating to Aries 5:20 tropical would have its Antiscion point at 24:40 Virgo. Those Antiscion points could be converted to their sidereal positions.
I can see why this might be greeted with modest enthusiasm given its tropical derivation.
That said, these points are very meaningful in regard to progressions and transits in my experience.
Just offering this to the general readership of this forum.
Right. From the solstice points. (Although these are square the ones from the equinoxes as well. - Just to ber clear, nobody here is going to call these Cancer-Capricorn or Aries-Libra, since those are the artificial constructions of the Tropical zodiac. (Generally, nobody here uses the Tropical zodiac.)

But we get around that anyway by simply calling them the solstice points and equinoctial points, respectively. And btw they DO move because the equinoxes and solstices move (through precession).
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Re: Antiscion

Post by FraterAC » Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:45 pm

Well, the Antiscia don't move if you use the Sidereal zodiac or adjust for precession. I am aware the positions of the solstices and equinoxes move, of course.
To get back to the main part of the discussion, I have found progressions and transits to the antiscion points give indications for manifestations not otherwise accounted for. So I'm suggesting some of the readers of these posts might find them of use. I have found them to be very useful, yielding indications plain as day in many cases.
Ptolemy advocated their use, and well, he was right about a couple of things, at least. He talked about them in terms of transits, but they have other uses as well.

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Re: Antiscion

Post by SteveS » Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:02 am

It may help us other forum members if you guys can offer some examples of this technique.

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Re: Antiscion

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:26 am

SteveS wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:02 am
It may help us other forum members if you guys can offer some examples of this technique.
Steve, the VP at your birth was 6°00' Pisces, so the solstice points are square these at 6°00' Gemini-Sagittarius,

The antiscion of a point is as far on the opposite side of the solstice axis. So, your Uranus at 2°06' Gemini is 3°54' before the solstice point at 6°00' Gemini. Uranus' antiscion is 3°54' after the solstice point (= 9°54' Gemini). The theory is similar to saying that you have a second Uranus at 9°54' Gemini. The theory, then, is that any planet crossing 9°54' Gemini would act like it was conjoining your Uranus.

Another example: Your Moon at 15°22' Scorpio is 20°38' before the winter solstice point at 6°00' Sagittarius. Going 20°38' after the solstice point gives 26°38' Sagittarius. This is your Moon's antiscion. The theory is that any planet at or crossing this point would act as if it were conjunct your Moon.

Unfortunately, Solar Fire's antiscia report doesn't calculate this correctly. It assumes you're always using the Tropical zodiac so, instead of using the actual solstice point it uses 0° Capricorn as the axis (the Tropical longitude).
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Re: Antiscion

Post by SteveS » Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:42 am

Got it, thanks Jim.

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Re: Antiscion

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:06 am

I've occasionally thought that the fastest way to test the antiscion theory is in synastry (as I did the Novien). Against one's catalogue of romantic-sexual interests of the past, look at the antiscia of your Moon, Sun, Venus, and Mars.

In my case, these are:

Sun - 19°18' Aquarius
Moon - 13°32' Virgo
Venus - 9°53' Capricorn
Mars - 12°51' Scorpio

Of my two wives and my two other longest relationships, these strike nothing at all, except Sun's antiscion is 1°12' from my first wife's Mars and my Mars antiscion 1°10' from opposite my second wife's Mars. While those are an interesting coincidence on their own, it's not as descriptive of the relationships as the actual Mars interchanges we have (and it's a pretty scrawny showing of aspects in total).

This may not be a fair test since it isn't the exact proposition FraterAC brought us (he suggested transits and progressions, not synastric interchanges), but I offer it for a chick-check that seems it should (but doesn't) show well.
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FraterAC
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Re: Antiscion

Post by FraterAC » Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:07 am

The Antiscia are not square the solstice points. They are more like a mirror image on the opposite side of the chart from them. If you send me data I will compute them for you.
The whole point of my comments is to try using them with progressions and transits.
Yes, some people use them for synastry. Some people also use them only in comparison with the natal chart. I'm less interested in that.
I'm not interested in anyone else validating this for me. I am observing what they do for myself. I'm just offering this as a very useful tool for others.

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Re: Antiscion

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:18 am

FraterAC wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:07 am
The Antiscia are not square the solstice points.
I didn't say they were. I did say the solstice points were square the VP.
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