DDonovanKinsolving wrote:12. THE QUOTIDIAN-2 (Part 2)
EXAMPLE
My derivation of Q2 is so remarkable, so seemingly from left-field, I feel that it is necessary to have a publicly available comparison to make it credible. I have selected the case used in Primer of Sidereal Astrology by Fagan and Firebrace, which is still in print and ought to be in the library of every Siderealist.
Firebrace's granddaughter, Susan Walker, was born October 8, 1949 02:33 GMT, Kensington London, W 0°09'44”, N 51°29'33”. She fell off a horse, suffering injury, March 27, 1960, about 12:00 noon GMT, Blewbury, Berkshire, England, W 1°17', N 51°35' (page 25).
Chapter VII covers the instructions for calculating the Q1 progressed horoscope. On page 33, pay attention to the line:
Uncorrected age of native in days, etc. 10 11 13 29
The Primer doesn't do more with this other than being the starting point of the bija correction, which ultimately leads to the Q1. However, had the authors of the Primer seen fit to cover the Q2, the chart would have been cast for birthday + uncorrected age = October 18, 1949 13:46:29 GMT.
Using a spreadsheet (I recommend Open Office), it is possible to enter the dates and times of the birth and the accident to find the age, which is 3,823 days 09:27:00, or if you prefer 3,823.39375 days. The length of a Tertiary year in real time is 9,979.41040 days, so the accident occurred 38.313% through her first Tert year. Since one Tert year maps onto one progressed Month (27.321661 days), that is also the percentage of the progression through that month.
38.313% of 27.321661 days is 10.46775 progressed days, or an age of 10 days 11:13:29, exactly as calculated in the Primer by using the Mean Sun.
The identity of the Q2 with the progression 1 Sidereal Tertiary year ~ 1 Sidereal Month is confirmed.
(To be continued)
-Derek
A fractal model of progressions
Re: A fractal model of progressions
Jun 20, 2014
Amate Se Mutuo Cum Corda Ardentia
Re: A fractal model of progressions
SteveS wrote:Derek wrote:Indeed! When I got Solar Fire, I took all the example charts in the Primer and reproduced all the Primer charts possible. This kick-started my learning process for Sidereal Astrology.I have selected the case used in Primer of Sidereal Astrology by Fagan and Firebrace, which is still in print and ought to be in the library of every Siderealist.
Amate Se Mutuo Cum Corda Ardentia
Re: A fractal model of progressions
Venus_Daily wrote:Wow, I am terrible with spreadsheets, do you have an excel file that can do this..or an open office file?Code: Select all
Using a spreadsheet (I recommend Open Office), it is possible to enter the dates and times of the birth and the accident to find the age, which is 3,823 days 09:27:00, or if you prefer 3,823.39375 days. The length of a Tertiary year in real time is 9,979.41040 days, so the accident occurred 38.313% through her first Tert year. Since one Tert year maps onto one progressed Month (27.321661 days), that is also the percentage of the progression through that month.
Amate Se Mutuo Cum Corda Ardentia
Re: A fractal model of progressions
DDonovanKinsolving wrote:I'm working on one to share. I have to be sure all the math is right, though. I've been working on this on my own for years, but a public submission? ... The pressure's on!Venus_Daily wrote:... do you have an excel file that can do this..or an open office file?
Thanks for your interest.
-Derek
Amate Se Mutuo Cum Corda Ardentia
Re: A fractal model of progressions
Jun 21, 2014
DDonovanKinsolving wrote:13. TERTIARIES REVISITED
Earlier (Sections 7 and 8), we saw that the equivalence:
Tertiary Progressions: 1 Sidereal Month ~ 1 Inertial Day
gives a result that differs from the traditional calculation: one day - including the rotation of the angles - is replicated during one month. In this, it is similar to the Q1: 1 Year ~ 1 Day, so the angles change accordingly.
Yet, the system advocated by Troinski, Lyndoe and Bradley give something else: in the space of a Real Year, the angles move some 13°. The fact that the progressed Sun moves the same amount should remind one of how the Secondary Sun behaves in relation to Primary angles. This is enough to make one suspect that there is still another Second Order progression lurking around. Indeed there is.
The clue is in the timing.
27.32 Real Years ~ 1 Day by new progression
We have already seen this value, 27.32 Years, in Section 11 as the time it takes to undergo a Solar Return by Tertiary Progression. There, it was equivalent to one month. Here we see it equivalent to one day. We can say:
1 Tertiary progressed Year ~ 1 Inertial Day new progression
and with their numbers:
9,979.41040 CD Real ~ 0.9972697 CD new progression
Let's use an approximation to show what's going on:
27.3216609 Years ~ 24 hours Sidereal Time
Divide both sides by 27.3216609 time find how much progressed Sidereal Time passes in one year.
1 Year ~ 0h 52m 42.33s
which is virtually identical to the value given by Bradley in his Tertiary article:
Motion of Mean Sun = Tertiary Equivalent
One Year = 0h 52m 42.3259s
CONCLUSIONS
There is another progression system hidden in the standard Tertiary calculations. The Midheaven progresses by about 24 hours Sidereal Time in about 27.32 years; the planets also must be progressed at this rate.
It was consensus of Lyndoe and Bradley (and maybe Troinski) that these angles were sensitive to Tertiary planets. If this can be confirmed, it may because of their fractal connection.
In a 90-year lifespan, this progression advances about 3.3 days.
POSTSCRIPT
While this progression is logically valid from the assumptions of this posting, it has yet to be investigated. Primary progressions has historically been used via their mundane (that is, semi-arc) aspects. It remains to be seen whether this progression works the same way, or through zodiacal aspects (the progressed Moon, for example, moves about 44° in 90 years), or whether it works at all.
Progression systems are starting to stack up. To me, this is worrisome. It begins to resemble the weed-like growth of predictive systems in Sidereal astrology's earlier years (the 1960s and 1970s). I have to draw a distinction between the interests of the practicing astrologer, and those of the researching astrologer. For the former, there is danger of getting bogged down in too many charts of questionable worth, with little to be gained in interpretive clarity. These newer progressions need to be left to systematic study and comparison by examination of test cases.
Unfortunately, I have not reached the end of the implications of this model, this proliferation of progressions. On the bright, side, I hope that some insight into astrology on a grand scale will come about by this effort.
(To be continued)
-Derek Kinsolving
Amate Se Mutuo Cum Corda Ardentia
Re: A fractal model of progressions
Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:Nicely said.DDonovanKinsolving wrote: Progression systems are starting to stack up. To me, this is worrisome. It begins to resemble the weed-like growth of predictive systems in Sidereal astrology's earlier years (the 1960s and 1970s). I have to draw a distinction between the interests of the practicing astrologer, and those of the researching astrologer. For the former, there is danger of getting bogged down in too many charts of questionable worth, with little to be gained in interpretive clarity. These newer progressions need to be left to systematic study and comparison by examination of test cases.
Amate Se Mutuo Cum Corda Ardentia
Re: A fractal model of progressions
Jun 29, 2014
DDonovanKinsolving wrote:14.THE FORGOTTEN PROGRESSION
BACKGROUND
In the October 1991 issues of American Astrology Magazine, Clay Reed introduced a new progression that equates 750.56627 days real-time to one day in what he dubbed the "Reed Progression." To me, the explanation was a bit confusing, but that does not negate the validity of the progression itself. I will now derive this progression anew.
THESIS
1 Tertiary Month ~ 1 Inertial Day
ARGUMENT
How long is one Tertiary Month? Since one sidereal month is 27.321661 Civil days, one month of them is that number squared = 746.4732 days. We set this value equivalent to one Inertial Day:
746.4732 CD real time ~ 0.9972697 CD progressed time
and then divide both sides by 0.9972697:
748.5218 CD real time ~ 1.00 CD progressed time
DISCUSSION
My result differs from Reed's value, which is 750.56627 days. This is because my value is (Month^2)/Day, whereas Reed's is (Month/Day)^2. I think I know the reasoning process behind that number, but that is a whole other discussion. For now, I will politely disagree with Mr. Reed, while keeping an open mind that his perceptions into progressions were far clearer than mine.
(To be continued)
-Derek
Amate Se Mutuo Cum Corda Ardentia
Re: A fractal model of progressions
Jun 30, 2014
DDonovanKinsolving wrote:15. RECAP
In an exchange on this Forum between Mr. E and myself, it became apparent (and logically consistent) to describe transits as a species of progression; let's call them Zeroth-Order Progressions.
I defined as First-Order Progressions: the Quotidian-1, one variety of Tertiaries, and Minor Progressions.
Then, I described several Second-Order Progressions, or progressions of progressions, in a manner intended to introduce the concept, and to cover known and published progressions, both explicit and implied. Among them was the "Reed Progression," which made little impact after its publication. Perhaps by re-presenting it as part of a coherent system, interest can be ignited and its usefulness (or otherwise) can be determined.
The exposition of Second-Order Progressions was haphazard as far as logical order goes, and this will now be remedied.
(To be continued)
-Derek
Amate Se Mutuo Cum Corda Ardentia
Re: A fractal model of progressions
Jul 02, 2014
DDonovanKinsolving wrote:16. THE FRACTAL SYSTEM OF PROGRESSIONS
0. 0TH-ORDER PROGRESSIONS
0.1. 1 Sidereal Day ~ 1 Sidereal Day
0.2. 1 Sidereal Month ~ 1 Sidereal Month
0.3. 1 Sidereal Year ~ 1 Sidereal Year
Note: These are transits. They appear trivially the same, but they form the building blocks of fractal time.
1. 1ST-ORDER PROGRESSIONS
1.1. 1 Sidereal Month ~ 1 Sidereal Day
Note: A variety of Tertiaries; the RAMC rotates once per month.
Custom Progressed Ratio: 0.03650106428
1.2. 1 Sidereal Year ~ 1 Sidereal Day
Note: This is the Quotidian-1.
Custom Progressed Ratio: 0.00273032809
1.3. 1 Sidereal Year ~ 1 Month Sidereal
Note: This is Minor Progressions, based on sidereal periods not tropical.
Custom Progressed Ratio: 0.07480132826
2. 2ND-ORDER PROGRESSIONS
2.1. TERTIARY-BASED PROGRESSIONS
2.1.1. 1 Tertiary Month ~ 1 Progressed Day
Note: A variety of the “Reed Progression.”
Custom Progressed Ratio: 0.00133597531
2.1.2. 1 Tertiary Year ~ 1 Progressed Day
Note: This gives (approximately) the Sidereal Time of Tertiaries as traditionally taught.
Custom Progressed Ratio: 0.00009993273
2.1.3. 1 Tertiary Year ~ 1 Progressed Month
Note: This is the Quotidian-2.
Custom Progressed Ratio: 0.00273780311
2.2. SECONDARY-BASED PROGRESSIONS
2.2.1. 1 Secondary Month ~ 1 Progressed Day
Note: This is identical to 2.1.2. above; the traditional Tertiary Sidereal Time.
Custom Progressed Ratio: 0.00009993273
2.2.2. 1 Secondary Year ~ 1 Progressed Day
Note: Primary Progressions; nearly identical to the Ptolemaic rate in Sidereal Time.
Custom Progressed Ratio: 0.00000747510
2.2.3. 1 Secondary Year ~ 1 Progressed Month
Note: A hitherto unknown progression. Similar to 2.3.2. below. To be discussed.
Custom Progressed Ratio: 0.00020479131
2.3. MINOR-BASED PROGRESSIONS
2.3.1. 1 Minor Month ~ 1 Progressed Day
Note: This works out to be the same as the Quotidian-1.
Custom Progressed Ratio: 0.00273032809
2.3.2. 1 Minor Year ~ 1 Progressed Day
Note: A hitherto unknown progression. Similar to 2.2.3. above. To be discussed.
Custom Progressed Ratio: 0.00020423217
2.3.3. 1 Minor Year ~ 1 Progressed Month
Note: A hitherto unrecognized progression.
Custom Progressed Ratio: 0.00559523871
SUMMARY
The number of First- and Second-Order progressions at first glance looks to be twelve, but close inspection shows that two are identical. (I will leave the proof to the reader.) Most are already known. One has been glimpsed at, but conflated with true Tertiaries.
Only three seem to be genuine discoveries. We'll review these next.
(To be continued)
-Derek
Amate Se Mutuo Cum Corda Ardentia
Re: A fractal model of progressions
DDonovanKinsolving wrote:17. INERTIAL/CIVIL DAY PAIRS
We get two pairs of progressions in which one represents an Inertial Day and the other a Civil Day. One pair is the Q-1/Q-2 set. We have another pair in the newly derived (“discovery” is too bold a word) progressions. There is one where one Secondary Year maps onto a progressed Month. In the other, one Minor Year maps onto one progressed Civil Day day. When the ratios are worked out, the difference between the two is another Inertial/Civil Day pairing in the vicinity of 13 years and 4.5 months of life. The Midheaven takes about two weeks to move 1 degree. In 90 years of life, the difference between the two is merely 00:26:30.
One final Second-Order progression comes from making an equivalence between one Minor Year to one progressed Month. At 90 years of life, the progressed horoscope is about 1.5 years after birth.
These progressions run the gamut from being a bit faster than Primaries to a little faster than the Quotidians. On the basis of length alone, they're comparable to established systems.
How to use them? Cautiously. One may take a set of favored charts that have worked well already, but they may not be the best choice. In order to establish whether a new progression is valid, perhaps one should take cases that have a middling or poor showing by established systems, in order to see whether these newer, speculative methods fill in the gaps.
Ultimately we are looking for a judicious use of progressions. We do not want to become bogged down in a swamp of charts, not knowing which deserve consideration. We also run the risk of introducing so many charts that some of them are always bound to show something that looks “appropriate.” In the Introduction, I spoke of “well-selected” sets that an astrologer should use. What does this mean? Perhaps it means 1) at least 80% of external events and internal states can be accounted for, 2) no major event should be unaccountable, and 3) there are very few patently false predictions (excluding lack of the astrologer's understanding). Any sub-set of methods chosen from this set of ten progressions, along with transits and transitive techniques, that meet this test would be “appropriate.”
(To be continued)
-Derek
Amate Se Mutuo Cum Corda Ardentia
Re: A fractal model of progressions
Jul 04, 2014
DDonovanKinsolving wrote:18. FEVERED FLIGHTS OF FANCY
This Fractal Model of Progressions doesn't end here. These are fractals, after all, and it's conceivable to take yet another step and form Third-Order Progressions. Eventually, it is bound to reach pointlessness. I have not taken this step, but it looks likely that among the ever-smaller values, the faster-moving progressions might yield something marginally useful.
We are so accustomed to thinking that a thirty year old adult is being influenced by the transits in force at 30 days of age. But what of the reverse? Is the month-old baby in the crib being influenced by the “hyper-progression” of 30 years hence? (I am indebted to siderealist John Kahila for the idea and the term.) If so, then is the 30 year-old adult being influenced by the transits some 4 million days in the future?
Were this true what could be done with it? Could a trained psychic or remote viewer use a hyper-progressed chart as a target and gain a glimpse into the future through some future incarnation?
Mystics have said that there is no time, that time is an illusion. Maybe this means that our linear habits of thinking about time is the illusion. It may be that all particles are quantumly entangled from their common origin at the Big Bang – that is why space is an “illusion”: it's all connected. Could this be said of Time as well? Past, Present and Future are illusions because Time is recursive; Time has structure; Time connects with itself; Time is self-similar at different scales. Astrology measures those scales – at least for us humans on Earth. What of other Solar Systems and their alien astrologies?
Long have I resisted using Regressions. Mostly because in my early days, getting the appropriate ephemerides was problematic and the additional paperwork was too tedious and prone to error. After the advent of the personal computer, I resisted them because I couldn't accept that transits before my birth had anything to do with me, except through their living embodiments, my elders. But if the transits a month after my birth should still affect me at different points in my life, isn't that already saying that my concept of Time is flawed? The fractal points of time not only recurve forward, but maybe also backward. This could explain prophecy, presentiments, foreshadowings. Progressions and Regressions in all their fractal representations maybe have something to contribute to our understanding of astrology as a whole and the nature of Time or Mind or both.
These are dizzying concepts; the mind boggles, spins everywhen. Yet, all we really have is living and deciding and acting in this illusory Present. “Live in the moment,” goes the phrase. “Be-right-here-now!” said Cheech Wizard. “Zitina,” I say when I'm practicing Loglan. Maybe how one lives at this fractal point of time influences one's life, both past and future - even history, past and future! - via those other, fractal-connected points in time. If so, let them be good decisions; let them be good actions.
THE END
Amate Se Mutuo Cum Corda Ardentia
Re: A fractal model of progressions
Dec 15, 2014
Venus_Daily wrote:bravisimo, the only problem is we have not been able to advance past the microchip and pcu to find something that can connect us to a higher reality except for authentic psychics which are exceedingly rare, and even they are prone to mistake because they cannot perceive beyond the spiritual level which I believe is on a completely different level than what our souls can perceive.. I have always felt that on each different level some type of entities have burst through that wall and have been able to develop symbiotically with the lesser creatures roaming around intentionally pushing the organism into situations which develop the senses so that they can perceive the "reality" they are inhabiting. Maybe our reality and the stars are just a final piece of the puzzle.
Amate Se Mutuo Cum Corda Ardentia
Re: A fractal model of progressions
DDonovanKinsolving wrote:Thank you. I presume you're talking about the last section. I always thought that it was wild, maybe over the top. I've been ready to deny (truthfully) that I was not under the influence of drugs when I wrote it.Venus_Daily wrote:bravisimo...
-Derek
Amate Se Mutuo Cum Corda Ardentia
Re: A fractal model of progressions
DDonovanKinsolving wrote:The computer and software are simply tools. We must strive for understanding and connection via our human nature. Long ago, I came to the conclusion that gravity and EM spectra were not the real causes of astrology, that some other layer of natural lawfulness exists beyond or in addition to them. I'm sure (but I could be wrong) that most Western Sidereal astrologers feel much the same way. I have no answers, but plenty of guesses.Venus_Daily wrote:we have not been able to advance past the microchip and pcu to find something that can connect us to a higher reality
-Derek
Amate Se Mutuo Cum Corda Ardentia
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests