General Principles of Sidereal Mundane Astrology

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General Principles of Sidereal Mundane Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 10, 2017 7:06 am

Here is a copy of my essay on general working methods of Sidereal Mundane Astrology. (Chapter 4 of the SMA book.)

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=5 ... file%2cpdf

This supersedes an early long post on this subject, and incorporates the recent research findings on technique ranking.
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Re: General Principles of Sidereal Mundane Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 10, 2017 7:06 am

SteveS wrote:Jim, Bradley's and your work with Sidereal Mundane Astrology has definitely demonstrated/proven the Capsolar is the Master Chart of the Year, along with the CapQ’s. Do you have any thoughts, from astronomical reasons, WHY the Capsolar is the Master Chart?

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Re: General Principles of Sidereal Mundane Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 10, 2017 7:07 am

SteveS wrote:Jim, Bradley's and your work with Sidereal Mundane Astrology has definitely demonstrated/proven the Capsolar is the Master Chart of the Year, along with the CapQ’s. Do you have any thoughts, from astronomical reasons, WHY the Capsolar is the Master Chart?
No. not really.

I mean: Yes, I have thoughts. I don't know that any of them stand up as more than idle thoughts.

As you probably know, at one time Bradley thought the solar apex was at 0° Capricorn. That would have been cool. But it turns out that the solar apex is a lot closer to Tropical 0° Capricorn, i.e., 6° Sagittarius, not that far from the Galactic Center. Scratch one idea.

But it's good that the idea got scratched, since it was an older "fiducial" kind of thinking that was looking for a single point to define things, much like the vernal equinox is the "single defining point" in Tropical astrology. That isn't what the Sidereal zodiac is at all. As I wrote in my "Brief Look" article,
Yet, no single “fixed” star can reasonably be presumed to determine the structure of the entire zodiac. These Sidereal longitudes of Spica, Aldebaran, etc. were known to be near-approximations at best, and not precise “permanent residences” by which a zodiac is defined. Current Sidereal theorists generally presume that their zodiac is the resultant of the harmonic interplay of all galactic and extra-galactic material, visible and invisible. In other words, it is a “field” in which the relative positions of the planets produce astrological effects....
In other words, it's the relationship of everything that is in some kind of aprecessional field.

We have bigger questions than "why Capricorn?" We don't even know why the zodiac is structured as it is - even though study after study resoundingly confirms that it is truly a series of twelve 30° segments. (I do understand why these are aligned along the ecliptic, I think; but that's pretty minor.) And within the general questions about the zodiacal structure, "Why cardinal?"

I decided a decade or two back to just go with sorting through what we know to be so, and not worrying about why it's so.
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Re: General Principles of Sidereal Mundane Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 10, 2017 7:07 am

SteveS wrote:Jim wrote:
"Why cardinal?"
Exactly.
I decided a decade or two back to just go with sorting through what we know to be so, and not worrying about why it's so.
I hear you Jim-thanks for your thoughts.

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Re: General Principles of Sidereal Mundane Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 10, 2017 7:07 am

DDonovanKinsolving wrote:Here are two major disasters that have puzzled me, though admittedly only with cursory examination. Mr. E., perhaps you'd be willing to apply the full "SMA treatment" to them?

Bhopal disaster: Night of December 2-3, 1984, Bhopal, India.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster

Lake Nyos disaster: August 21,1986, Lake Nyos, Cameroon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos

What makes them stick in my memory was their proximity in time along with the (very) general similarity of the events: mass death (exceeding 1,000 in each case) and injury from chemical gas clouds. Bhopal was a human/industrial accident, releasing methyl isocyanate in an explosion; Lake Nyos was totally natural, releasing a layer of carbon dioxide from the lake bottom after a relatively minor seismic disturbance.

-Derek

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Re: General Principles of Sidereal Mundane Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 10, 2017 7:08 am

DDonovanKinsolving wrote:Lake Nyos: 6N26'17" 10E17'56"

Lake Nyos, Republic of Cameroon, is a crater lake whose upper and lower layers don't mix. This results in microbial or vented gasses collecting dissolved and concentrated in the bottom layer. Some minor disturbance, usually assumed to be a landslide, upset the situation and, like a shaken soda drink, caused it to effervesce and release a cloud of carbon dioxide, which then drifted over nearby villages. Death toll, of asphyxiation, was 1,700 people and more than twice that in livestock.

August 21, 1986
Time: The only time I can find documented is 9PM, from the account of a survivor. That's the time I'm using, though the actual release had to have been earlier.

Capsolar: MC Cancer 9:43, Asc Libra 12:47
Pluto Libra 12:38, below horizon in mundo 3:20

transit: Pluto Libra 10:22 [Pluto had retrograded 2:07 in RA. Applying the same amount to its Capsolar mundane position as a first estimate, that makes it about 1:13 from Capsolar Asc.]


Caplunar: August 17, 1986 [chart of the week and month]
RAMC: 182:22
RA Neptune: 273:30 [Neptune 1:07 from East Point]
Neptune in mundo: 3:45 below Asc

-Derek


JAE:DONE. http://www.solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=3669

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Re: General Principles of Sidereal Mundane Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 10, 2017 7:09 am

DDonovanKinsolving wrote:Bhopal Disaster

December 3, 1984 00:30 IST
23N16'51" 77E24'38"

A detailed timeline can be found here:

http://www.umass.edu/sts/pdfs/Bhopal_AChrono.pdf

This officially remains the worst industrial accident in history. The Wikipedia article for this event suggests that about 20,000 people died either immediately or eventually due to the catastrophic release of methyl isocyanate gas after a valve blew from excessive internal pressure. The total number of people exposed is estimated to be about 500,000.

Capsolar: MC Pisces 13:23 Asc Gemini 21:37
Moon Taurus 18:28 Uranus Scorpio 17:23
Mars Libra 7:42 Pluto Libra 7:30

Transits: Sun Scorpio 16:16 Uranus Scorpio 19:05
Moon Pisces 13:01 (conjunct Capsolar MC)

Q2: MC Capricorn 28:56 Asc Taurus 12:50 Moon Gemini 0:48 [This does not look too indicative.]

The lunar ingresses, going back from most recent:

Caplunar Nov. 27, 1984 (chart of month and week):
MC Taurus 29:28 Mercury Sagittarius 1:54 [west of IC 2:21]

Liblunar Nov. 20,1984
Asc Aries 27:11 Saturn Libra 25:38 Pluto Libra 8:34
but compare to the mundoscope: Saturn 0:06 above Dsc Pluto 3:17 below Dsc
Liblunar Mars is 6:24 west of MC - a bit wide

Canlunar Nov. 14, 1984
Dsc Scorpio 18:02 Uranus Scorpio 17:57 Mercury Scorpio 16:21
[in the mundoscope, Uranus is 0:05 above Asc Mercury 1:00 above Asc]

Arilunar Nov. 7, 1984
MC Gemini 7:31 Neptune Sagittarius 5:01 [2:32 east of IC in mundoscope]

-Derek

JAE: DONE. http://www.solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=3668

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Re: General Principles of Sidereal Mundane Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 10, 2017 7:10 am

After four years, I have no completely rewritten the chapter on Working Principles, using a quite different report. Instead of the former bullet-point list, I have moved to a conversational approach, which also lets me streamline. I think it is much clearer, much more likely to draw people into how to apply these methods. I would very much like your thoughts on this.

Here is a draft of the chapter:
https://1drv.ms/b/s!Ansnmu2xbktakYI1F2HVLVU6qBfpDA

A lot has changed in four years. Techniques have only changed subtly, and I had kept the chapter up-to-date on that (e.g., my gradual demotion of Cancer ingresses). On rereading this chapter last week, what I found had changed most was my confidence based on the volume of my own work and the integrity of the data.

To explain a little better: In the first edition of SMA, the main part of this chapter was a set of bullet points that were notes extracted from Bradley. Sections were either (explicitly or implicitly) in the form of, "the method handed down to us says...," or they were explanatory of my thinking on what problems we had to solve and what path I had followed to their solution. In other words, it was more about foraging our way through the data and figuring out how to process it, and less about what people could count on and how they could use it.

So I've mostly done away with "how we got here" discussions, and have tried to "cut to the quick" at the top of the chapter. I think it's a far better approach. OTOH, by now it is very difficult for me to position myself as someone who doesn't know anything about this subject and is hoping to be led gently, step-by-step, into familiarity with it.

I welcome you feedback on the approach, whether I succeeded, whether I should take it down this road... etc. Thanks.
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Re: General Principles of Sidereal Mundane Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 10, 2017 7:11 am

SteveS wrote:Jim wrote:
Capricorn ingresses, called the “Master Charts” of a year (Capsolar) or month (Caplunar), have the strongest voices across the entire cycle of their lifespan(year or month, respectively).
I let these “Master Charts” guide my core delineation for a “themed” manifestation with non-dormancy, endeavoring to accurately read non-dormant angular planetary symbolism. I still pay very close attention to your ‘’Interpreting Solar Return’ teachings with a partile/tight dynamic aspect involving the angles as producing ‘Outstanding Incidents,’ according to the planetary symbolism. Whenever we see a non-dormant Capsolar, we must constantly ponder the “themed” planetary message of the non-dormant Capsolar, looking for and confirming the beginning of the “themed” message. Then, when I think I have isolated the "themed" beginning manifestations of a non-dormant Capsolar, I then turn to the other non-dormant Solar Ingresses to help me narrow the possible quarters for main event symbolized by a non-dormant Capsolar. Then I turn to the Caplunars to help me isolate the possible month(s) for the "themed" Capsolar event.
A strategy has evolved for tabulating information we want to assess in interpreting a solar or lunar ingress. The interpretation itself is a mixture of science and art, resting first on correctly identifying the operative factors.
Exactly! When we see a non-dormant Capsolar, we must then closely endeavor to isolate the possible beginnings of the “themed” message ("operative factors") in the non-dormant Capsolar. Without correctly identifying the beginnings of this “themed” message of the Capsolar, we find it most difficult to see/understand a possible end event for the “themed” Capsolar message for the Capsolar year.
I welcome you feedback on the approach, whether I succeeded, whether I should take it down this road... etc. Thanks.
We are still evolving with your SMA teachings. You are the main teacher and I follow you down whatever teaching “road” you are going down. :)

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Re: General Principles of Sidereal Mundane Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 10, 2017 7:11 am

Thanks for the feedback, Steve.

In general - at least, as a starting point - I agree with your general emphasis on the Master Charts. However, over the years, I've learned not to take it too far. Early in this project, I wrote a small report where I took the catalogued events (many fewer than now) and tried to use only the Capsolar, Caplunar, and CapQ. The results were far poorer than I thought they would be. I liberalized it by adding the "fail-over" backups - Cansolar if the Capsolar was dormant, weekly lunar if the Caplunar was dormant, CanQ if the CapQ was dormant - and it approved a bit. But my hope was deflated that we could make this super-simple by proving that the Master Charts could carry the weight mostly on their own.

I should clarify that the results of doing it this way were still far better than anything I'd seen in Tropical mundane astrology. It just wasn't anywhere near as good as what we were seeing with a more complex system.

So, to dump numbers from currently catalogued date...

Off 300 events, either the Year chart of Quarter chart produced a +1 score or higher 291 times, or 97% of the time, which is astounding. But the numbers go down a bit (still great, but lower) when we break this apart. The Capsolar scored +1 or better 189 times out of 212 non-dormant cases (89%). Adding the Cansolar for when Capsolar was dormant increases this to 256 of 286, or 90%. The Quarter charts give 208 out of 235 non-dormant instances, or 89%. If we take the Quarter charts excluding the 1st quarter (avoiding duplication of the Capsolar, which is the Quarter chart for the first quarter), we get 178 of 203, or 88%.

These numbers are pretty consistent - they're all 89%, give or take a point.

What I find more interesting, though, is that, despite the greater importance of the Capsolar overall, sometimes the Quarter chart describes events independently, and does a better job. Let's look at the 12 events (only 12) where the Capsolar was clearly wrong, egging a score of -1, -2, or -3. Of these 12 cases, the Quarter chart was dormant three times and, in the other nine events, 100% of the time got a score of +1 or +2. This shows that, even though the Capsolar isn't wrong very often, when it IS wrong, the Quarter chart perfectly well shows the event all by itself.

We're used to this even more often with the lunar ingresses, where the Caplunar has a wider reach - covering an entire month - but the weekly lunars actually score more reliably. Of 300 events, either the Caplunar or the weekly lunar got a +1 or higher 288 times, or 96% - a fabulous number. But the Caplunar alone was only right 204 out of 222 non-dormant times (92%), and the weekly lunars alone were only right 208 of 221 non-dormant times (94%).

As with the solars, when the Caplunar or the Week charts had it wrong, the other essentially always had it right. Excluding 1st week events (when the Caplunar was the Week chart), 0f 10 times the Caplunar had a -1 or worse score, the Week chart was dormant twice and had the right symbolism for 100% of the remaining 8 times. Reversing this, for the six (a mere 6!) times that the Week chart gave a wrong answer (score -1 or worse), the Caplunar was dormant once and had a _1 or _2 score 100% of the other times.

So... I fell back to the place that the Master Charts don't tell the whole story, they're they are exactly on target at least 7 times out of every 8 (89% of the time for Capsolar, 92% of the time for Caplunar). I could be very happy with that. But, being greedy, I'm even more taken with the fact that one or the other of the two active solar and lunar ingresses nails the event 96-97% of the time! (And the dailies, by themselves, about 99%.)

We're getting better.
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Re: General Principles of Sidereal Mundane Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 10, 2017 7:11 am

SteveS wrote:
So... I fell back to the place that the Master Charts don't tell the whole story, they're they are exactly on target at least 7 times out of every 8 (89% of the time for Capsolar, 92% of the time for Caplunar). I could be very happy with that. But, being greedy, I'm even more taken with the fact that one or the other of the two active solar and lunar ingresses nails the event 96-97% of the time! (And the dailies, by themselves, about 99%.)
I understand Jim. Accurate delineations are a very difficult matter for seeing the main event with foresight. I don't see all the details you see and understand with your keen research; therefore, I am forced to simplify when endeavoring to accurately delineate the stack of charts with foresight. Trump's charts helps me a great deal in endeavoring to understand SMA for our government-country.
We're getting better.
That is all we can try to do.
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Re: General Principles of Sidereal Mundane Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 10, 2017 7:13 am

Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:OK, this is a different idea that you may or may not find helpful.

What if somebody, say a senator, got ahold of this book, skimmed through it (I do not see anybody actually reading the whole thing - you've said yourself the examples get a bit repetitive.) handed it off to an aide with a requisition to buy Solar Fire and work up the next couple years or so? What should that aide (who is busy and thinks the senator is kind of a crackpot but is paid to do his bidding) do to run up the next couple years in solar fire and then use this book to set up a report for the senator with the forecast for the next two years?

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Re: General Principles of Sidereal Mundane Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 10, 2017 7:13 am

Well... I'm inching there. Not this round. I have all the pieces in the book, they just aren't laid out as a recipe. That, probably, should be a separate pamphlet.
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Re: General Principles of Sidereal Mundane Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 10, 2017 7:14 am

Jupiter Sets At Dawn wrote:I think it could be a separate pamphlet, and it could also be an appendix in the current book. The current book is great for researchers who want to check your stats, but there also needs to be a simple instruction book(let) with a if these two planets are on the angles, this commonly happens, if these three are, that has happened section. Instructions rather than proof.

We're Siderealists. That means a lot of astrologers, especially Tropicalists, don't know what we mean when we say Quotidian or mundoscope or even Lunar Ingress. They don't know how to find the right menu items in their computer programs to match with our methods, and they don't know what to tweek if there's something almost right that just needs a different box checked. They absolutely don't know that thing called secondary progressions is what we call Quotidians.

There are also a lot of people who, if they can get past the OMG It's Astrology! People will think I'm nuts!! would love to use the kind of information they can get with this method but haven't a clue where to even start to get the charts. Right now, you're posting them month by month, but I don't think that's something you'll want to keep up the rest of your life.

It depends on what you want. Proof? Hey there it is. Since you were preaching to the choir here, it's been a great intellectual exercise, and we all learned something. But if you want more, a wider acceptance, yeah, there needs to be instructions.

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Re: General Principles of Sidereal Mundane Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 10, 2017 7:14 am

I may do something like this if there is a clear window of a month or so sometime e this year. But I won't do picture! <g> (I do my best not to do pictures.) They can follow along with the program and the words.

I particularly don't want to include this in the main book (e.g., as an appendix) because I don't want to link it to any one era of software. To some extent (and fully understanding that, with even the slightest success, things will grow and change in our understanding), I hope the book SMA for a century or more as a reference to something that takes off - in which case, it really shouldn't have abacus-era instructions on calculation, anchored to this point in time. But a small pamphlet with an anticipated < 5 year period of value is perhaps doable.

I'm clear on my audience of the main book. I want established astrologers, Tropicalist or Siderealist, who already understand mainstream astrological terms technicalities and only need to have explained those things that vary from the mainstream. I tell people this should absolutely not be their first book on astrology - go learn it elsewhere, then, please, come back.

But I can probably bring myself to write a preschool pamphlet.
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Re: General Principles of Sidereal Mundane Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 10, 2017 7:14 am

SteveS wrote:IMO, SMA along with other certain functions of Genethliacal Astrology needs to be taught at all universities which of course is not practical. The next best approach, imo, is with a web site with a very simple specialized free Sidereal Astrology computer program, with simple instructions. Everyone has a computer, half of this task is already solved.
Jim wrote:
But I can probably bring myself to write a preschool pamphlet.
Indeed! A simpler teaching method needs to be applied for return charts, Solunars, which is the name of this forum. IMO, a specialized Sidereal Astrology program needs to be written in a manner where anybody can quickly calculate all their ‘outstanding incident’ returns in the past and future. This would allow the student to experience in a deep manner when these ‘outstanding incidents’ returns occurred or occurs in their lives. This specialized program needs to be given free to everyone interested; students, professors, elites, ---everybody who wants to play around with Sidereal Astrology with their lives. The frigging problem with this messed-up world is very few humans’ experiences awe in their lives.
When humanity lack an individual sense of awe, there will be disaster. Lao-Tzu.

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Re: General Principles of Sidereal Mundane Astrology

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed May 10, 2017 7:15 am

I can't think of anything (on paper or a screen, at least) more likely to produce an utter sense of awe than intimately studying, and understanding, dozens to hundreds of Sidereal ingresses for major events. (Either awe or a totally fried mind that can't take any more amazement.)

Marion and I have a saying about the wine region in north Santa Barbara County: "It's really hard to find bad wine around here. You can do it... we know how to do it, because we know the area and we're professionals... but it's hard." Similarly, there are a few cases I've found where SMA doesn't work, but it's really hard to find them. One has to really work at it - do hundreds of cases so that the < 3% dud ratio pops up a few examples.

Hmm... that gets me wondering... I already know that the 301 catalogued events in the forthcoming SMA-14, about 92% have one of the (1 or 2) applicable solar ingresses and one of the (1 or 2) applicable lunar ingresses and one of the (1 or 2) applicable daily methods all scoring as +1 or better. I haven't looked, though, to see if there are any of these events that have nothing scoring +1 or better. I just looked: There are no such cases in the catalogue.

So how about the higher threshold of +2, which is a decisive fit to the event rather than just (+1) "more of a fit than not" - are there any events that have no relevant ingresses with a +2? Remarkably, I find there are none! Every case that has +1 or worse for solar and lunar ingresses (11 events) has a +2 or +3 on the quotidians.
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