Diana's tragic loss for her nation, 1997 UK's SSR

[SteveS]

Using UK’s 12/25/1066 Radical Chart; 12:00 PM LAT, here is what UK’s Jan 13 SSR calculated for the solar year when Diana tragically died Aug 31 1997. I know of no other time in UK’s entire history that a nation mourned the loss of one single human being!!! The partile aspected symbolism (T-square) for this 1997 UK SSR is most outstanding!!! But, I am a little puzzled there is no angular symbolism. I cannot find any other charts to offer better aspected planetary symbolism than UK’s 1997 SSR with this outstanding T-Square.

Mars 08,03 Vir
Saturn 07,21 Pi
Mercury 08,16 Sag
Venus 08,49 Sag

[Jim Eshelman]

The mundane charts (ingresses) showed these events extremely well, and I do think these outweigh national charts by a factor of perhaps 3x - ingresses tell the story far more reliably. Nonetheless, that's not what you're looking at here at the moment.

I should say, as you are digging so hard into solunars for national charts, that Bradley was skeptical of return charts for national charts. He wasn't saying they don't work, he was saying they are consistent and he'd never concluded for sure that they work.

This one does have the aspects you mention but they are in the immediate background. One wouldn't normally grant them much importance. This SSR normally would be judged shocking at worst and, more likely, fairly positive. It does, though, have Moon conjunct natal Pluto exactly.

Also, Solar Fire has an error of about 1° on the angles. While I think Uranus' transit across the SSR IC is the biggest impact, there is also Neptune square SSR Ascendant. Here are transits to the SSR for Diana's funeral:

1°27' Lib - SSR Asc
2°35' Cap - s Neptune
2°45' Cap - t Neptune

9°15' Cap - s Uranus
10°08' Can - SSR MC
10°36' Cap - t Uranus

Great Britain's SLR August 21 (covering the death and funeral) has a transiting Mercury-Pluto square AND Mercury opposite natal Pluto in the foreground. Transiting Pluto is the strongest planet, 3°02' above Ascendant.

The Demi-SLR September 4, right before the funeral, has so much foreground activity that one gets boggled. While the SLR is more about shock, the Demi-SLR is more about outpouring of love and honoring with a focus on royalty. Trimming the angularity orbs a bit, it's all royal honoring (and media) atop internal pain:

r Pluto on EP -1°24'
r Mars on Asc -0°12'
t Mercury on Dsc -0°07'
-----------------------------
t Sun on WP-a +0°33'
r Venus on Asc +2°12'
t Jupiter on Asc +2°33'
t Uranus on Asc +6°25'

t Mercury op r Mars 0°05' M
t Jupiter co r Venus 0°12' M
t Mercury op r Venus 2°25' M
r Venus-Mars co 2°31' M
t Mercury-Jupiter op 2°40' M
t Jupiter co r Mars 2°45' M

But none of these show the outright grief. They show "royal event" with great honor, great love, plenty of shock, and a sense of wounding, but not outright grief.

Since Solar Fire can't calculate these charts as well as we'd like for such an ancient natal, here are the times of the relevant solunars for the Great Britain chart for the funeral:

SSR: Jan 13, 1997, 0:59:11 UT
SLR: Aug 21, 1997, 13":16:31 UT
Demi-SLR: Sep 4, 1997, 18:01:41 UT
Diana's death: Aug 31, 1997, 0:23 AM CEDT, Paris, France (use London for the nation)
Diana's funeral: Sep 6, 1997, 11:00 AM BST, Westminster Abbey (use London for the nation)

In contrast, the ingresses tell the story well. In particular, the Liblunar has Saturn rising opposite Moon-Venus (and some Mars) on Descendant. The period of time was narrowed by transiting Pluto square London's Capsolar Asc as Neptune squared its MC (among other things). The Canlunar for death had Sun-Mercury rising in mundane square to Pluto about a degree from IC (royal death - and even the traffic details). For the death (felt by most of the world) transiting Saturn conjoined CapQ Moon. Stuff like that.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

But none of these show the outright grief. They show "royal event" with great honor, great love, plenty of shock, and a sense of wounding, but not outright grief.

Exactly Jim. While watching Episode 5 for season 6 of “The Crown” I was struck by the huge outpouring of sheer “grief” by the nation of Great Britain (GB) for Diana. To me it had a transcendence quality attached to this “grief” event. I thought to myself: OMG, this once in the entire lifetime of GB’s history for the huge outpouring of grief for Diana by the people of GB has to be shown with acute “grief” symbolism either in the SMA Solar Ingresses or the 1997 SSR for GB’s 1066 Radical. I first looked at SMA’s Solar Ingresses for 1997, I was sorely disappointed for only pure “grief” symbolism, but I guess that can only be determined by each individual mundane astrologer for their interpretation for pure “grief” symbolism. So, then I looked at GB’s (London) 1997 SSR and I was shocked by the partile T-Squre of the planetary picture of Mars-Saturn/Mercury-Venus. To me—this partile T-Square in the 1997 SSR absolutely nailed the pure “grief” symbolism for the Nation as a whole for Diana. But like you said—this T-Square was background---we should have seen with solunars teachings at least one arm of this T-Square angular, IMHO. But then I saw in the 1997 SSR---SSR Moon partile cnj Radical Pluto for par-excellent symbolism for the GB’s Nation of people being stunned and shocked by Diana’s death. I have seen enough proof with a few other Mundane SSRs that I am going to start allowing certain partile geometric formations (partile planetary pictures) in SSR’s involving more than 2 planets to count as being possibly very important, even though not angular, particularly involving 1 or more fast moving planets. At least important enough to paint a clear picture of symbolism for a possible main theme for an event in the solar year.
Jim wrote:

The mundane charts (ingresses) showed these events extremely well, and I do think these outweigh national charts by a factor of perhaps 3x - ingresses tell the story far more reliably. Nonetheless, that's not what you're looking at here at the moment.

I agree with you Jim on the 3X by all the comparison examples between SMA Ingresses vs SSRs from Mundane Radical Charts that I have witness. But now, I will look at both the SMA Ingresses and mundane SSRs for what I feel is a reliable Radical National or Mundane Chart. For example: With as much work as I have done with the NYSE Radical, I strongly feel SSRs/SLRs should not be overlooked when they fall in my/your definition for an “outstanding incident” return chart. I will now, for my own purposes, include partile 0 90 180 geometric planetary pictures involving more than 2 planets.
Jim wrote:

I should say, as you are digging so hard into solunars for national charts, that Bradley was skeptical of return charts for national charts. He wasn't saying they don't work, he was saying they are consistent and he'd never concluded for sure that they work.

Indeed, I am always "digging" when it comes to Sidereal Astrology. I take it you meant to write ‘not consistent’ correct? If so, I understand where you are coming from Jim, and I agree with Bradley, particularly with the past noon USA National chart, the SSRs in this Radical Chart also prove to me as “not consistent.” Thanks Jim for your feedback—it always helps me.

[Jim Eshelman]

Anither thing to consider: Fire race thought the nation's chart should go in the inside ring of ingresses. It adds so many factors, though...

[SteveS]

Now that is something I never would have thought of doing Jim. I know a perfect example to experiment with this concept with something which may produce a significant event in 2024 with the NYSE Radical. I love to experiment.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

Anither thing to consider: Fire race thought the nation's chart should go in the inside ring of ingresses. It adds so many factors, though...

This got me to thinking Jim! Let me make sure I understand where you are coming from:
You are saying Firebrace with the death of Diana would take London’s 1997 Capsolar and compare the factors to London’s 1066 Radical Chart, correct?

[Jim Eshelman]

Yes a two-ringer exactly like a return chart

If you can get his book Wars in the Sidereal, you'd have a bit of fun with it.

[SteveS]

Got it, for sure I will try to get his book. In the meantime let me look at this two-ring chart of London's 1997 Capsolar with 1066 Radical, and get back to you on what I see.

[SteveS]

OK Jim, here is the MAIN symbolism I see with my interpretations aka Firebrace methodology for Ingresses/National Chart for major events with a Nation---pertaining to Diana’s death/1997 London’s Capsolar bi-wheeled with London’s 1066 Radical. Reading with 20/20 hindsight vision. Please offer you read Jim, and I understand if you can’t get back to this thread till after your road trip.

Right off the bat:
1: r Moon 17,22 Pi; 1997 Capsolar Moon 17,12 Pi
I ask myself what are the mathematical % for this Moon to Moon set-up?? If we allow the Moon in Mundane Astrology as having a lot to do with the People of a Nation, I guess this set-up puts a symbolic focus on the “People” of Great Britain, but means nothing by itself unless we see other clear symbolic meanings.

2: There is a partile Mars/Saturn = Mercury T-Square in London’s 1997 Capsolar but not angular. This is for the entire world so really means nothing by itself for Great Britain. Can we possibly get this nasty partile Capsolar T-square individualized for the 1066 Great Britain Radical? Maybe if we allow this partile T-square connecting-up with the 1066 Radical Node by being partile 1066 North Node. In other words: A Mars-Saturn event with an important "connection" with a National Node. This would produce a four factor combo of 1997 Capsolar Mars/Saturn = Mercury =1066 North Node, with a 20/20 hindsight interpretation of:

A devastating Mars-Saturn event producing much news with Mercury, with an important connection (1066 North Node) with the Nation of Great Britain.

3: 1997 Capsolar Pluto partile 180 1066 Radical Neptune:
Ebertin (COSI) for negative Neptune-Pluto:

….grievous loss.

I am only reading the above with partile aspects and 20/20 hindsight, but it certainly fits the main event for Great Britain’s Capsolar Year. What else do you see/think Jim, and how much experience/research do you have with this Firebrace methodology?

[SteveS]

Wars in the Sidereal is out of print Jim. I would have relish studying this book. I noticed for the beginning of WW11---London’s (the world) 1939 Capsolar Saturn was partile cnj 1066 Radical Moon, somewhat interesting. Did you ever read/study this book?

[Jim Eshelman]

Oh yes. If I find it when I unpack boxes, I'll make you a photocopy. (It's small enough.)

[SteveS]

Thanks Jim.