2020 Libsolar

Q&A and discussion on Sidereal Solar & Lunar Ingresses, and transits & quotidian progressions of solar ingress.
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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by SteveS » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:19 am

Jim wrote:
I don't think any candidate can beat Trump without a Taurus-Scorpio or Cancer-Capricorn luminary. Of the top candidates, that means only Biden, Buttigieg, Bloomberg.
Then, by your most excellent historical sign research with US Presidents, the Dem Candidate will not be Bernie. No matter, whoever the Dem Nominee--he will more than likely win vs Trump with the symbolism in the 2020 Libsolar. This means to me if Bloomberg does not win a State in Mar 3 Super Primary, probabilities we can probably eliminate him form the Dem List. Then this leaves Buttigieg with the best Sign Probabilities along with historical evidence if Buttigieg wins of first or second place in NH Primary has never failed to win Dem Primary. How to you feel or see Buttigieg fairing in the Mar 3 Super Primary? Are there any early polls in California offering you how Buttigieg will do vs Bloomberg or Bernie?

Or, are you saying if Bernie becomes Dem Nominee, high probability he can't win vs Trump?

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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:40 am

SteveS wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:19 am
Then, by your most excellent historical sign research with US Presidents, the Dem Candidate will not be Bernie.
Or he or she won't win. (Though Trump winning remains highly unlikely, I agree.)
This means to me if Bloomberg does not win a State in Mar 3 Super Primary, probabilities we can probably eliminate him form the Dem List.
I've begun to think Bloomberg is playing an entirely different game. He may be positioning himself to step in and run if it's really called for but, mostly I think he's playing a different game: Unlike the other candidates, he isn't participating in the early contests so he's not campaigning against them - not taking any shots at any of them - but campaigning only against Trump. This lets him spend his personal fortune to make large the issues of climate change, gun control, health coverage, etc. AND take constant shots at Trump and the need to remove him. This is enormously positive to whoever gets the nomination later.

There is also psychological warfare involved. Bloomberg is saturating all TV networks with his ads. Trump is well-known to get almost all his information from TV an to watch it most of the day. We're already getting reports leaked from the White House that Trump is in meltdown because he can't watch TV anymore - any channel without getting non-stop Bloomberg ads tearing at him.

Bloomberg has one big astrological problem: his Aquarius Sun. America doesn't elect Aquarius luminaries except Washington and Lincoln. I think we probably won' elect another Aquarian unless he or she will take the place in history and stature of Washington and Lincoln.
Then this leaves Buttigieg with the best Sign Probabilities along with historical evidence if Buttigieg wins of first or second place in NH Primary has never failed to win Dem Primary. How to you feel or see Buttigieg fairing in the Mar 3 Super Primary? Are there any early polls in California offering you how Buttigieg will do vs Bloomberg or Bernie?
Pete is complicated. Conventional wisdom is that he hasn't won support from people of color and that's a gigantic weakness in running. He is heading toward Saturn's conjunction with his Sun - a gigantic aspect of enormous import. This aspect can go two ways, usually showing as loss but sometimes showing as a life-peak "destiny moment" (more simply, a readiness to assume enormous responsibility). I think we have no way of interpreting this without watching him. If he wins first or second spot in New Hampshire, he remains strongly in the running. we then watch and see whether his campaign crumbles or thrives under the exact Saturn transit to his Sun. If he survives that in a strong position, then I read that as the whole universe is behind him and he flies through the election on a large victory wave. Otherwise, it takes him down.
Or, are you saying if Bernie becomes Dem Nominee, high probability he can't win vs Trump?
I'm pretty confident that if Bernie gets the nomination, Trump gets another term and the outcome of the "overthrow" symbolism is the overthrow of the U.S. government as we've known it for over two centuries.
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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by SteveS » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:50 am

Jim wrote:
I'm pretty confident that if Bernie gets the nomination, Trump gets another term and the outcome of the "overthrow" symbolism is the overthrow of the U.S. government as we've known it for over two centuries.
:shock: But we are living in "interesting" times.

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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:52 am

I agree with Jim. If Bernie gets the nomination, or won't back off (like he wouldn't with Hillary) Trump wins and the US government ceases to exist at least till he gets sick or dies or something, and then we still have McConnell and Barr who will have been consolidating power, to deal with.
Bernie is not a Democrat and shouldn't be allowed in the Democratic primaries. It's not about "a big tent." It's about if you're not a Democrat, stop trying to use the Democratic party to fund your agenda.

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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:23 am

Since I made so firm a statement, I should qualify it by saying there have been exceptions in the "dance of the constellations" over the years. I don't think those exceptions apply here, but they are worth mentioning.

Washington and Lincoln were singular stand-outs. They are almost in a world of their own (although their Moon-signs were inherited and passed along by their successors).

Some unusual behavior has come from a Vice President who inherited the presidency due to a president's death, particularly Theodore Roosevelt. The pattern would continue to operate very well if Roosevelt were dropped out. History regards him as a political anomaly that fell into the presidency unexpectedly, so his anomalous astrological pattern isn't surprising.

William Henry Harrison doesn't fit at all, but he was only president a few weeks. His VP, John Tyler, is a perfect fit. One could argue that he was elected for the sole purpose of delivering Tyler to the presidency. (Historians would sorta kinda agree.)

But there is no such explanation for the single clearest exception, his grandson Benjamin Harrison. At most, he can be regarded as the interruption between Grover Cleveland's two non-adjacent terms.

After the generation of FDR as president and the ordeals of the Depression and the War, Harry Truman was a clean break, starting something entirely new - an "Act III" of the country - that began the modern presidency.

Finally, there have been two examples where squares instead of conjunction-opposition were the pattern, but these were not so unusual in their context. One was the rivalry and successive presidencies of John Quincy Adams (Gemini-Sagittarius) and Andrew Jackson (Pisces-Virgo). Each was a polarity pair of luminary signs and these signs were as close to an opposition of each other as could e - the "second harmonic" of the existing, defining opposition. The other was the Gemini-Virgo face-off of Ford and Carter. I do not think either of these endorses squares as an alternative - they were special cases. Trump is a Taurus-Scorpio polarity so I could see a Leo-Aquarius (parallel Adams-Jackson) but not just a Leo, for example.

Also like Roosevelt, can we consider that Trump is an isolated anomaly? That's a dangerous assumption. For one thing, he arises from direct inheritance, his Sun-sign being conjunct and his Moon-sign opposite Obama's Taurus Moon.

Anyway, thought I should make things more complete with those exceptions. BTW, if Trump's health gives out, Mike Pence would be his successor, with a Taurus Sun. If it's early enough, then Pence's Gemini Moon expands the range to include Warren (Gemini Sun) as a viable successor.
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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by SteveS » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:04 am

Jim wrote:
Pete is complicated. Conventional wisdom is that he hasn't won support from people of color and that's a gigantic weakness in running. He is heading toward Saturn's conjunction with his Sun - a gigantic aspect of enormous import. This aspect can go two ways, usually showing as loss but sometimes showing as a life-peak "destiny moment" (more simply, a readiness to assume enormous responsibility). I think we have no way of interpreting this without watching him. If he wins first or second spot in New Hampshire, he remains strongly in the running. we then watch and see whether his campaign crumbles or thrives under the exact Saturn transit to his Sun. If he survives that in a strong position, then I read that as the whole universe is behind him and he flies through the election on a large victory wave. Otherwise, it takes him down.
Excellent observation Jim!!!

JSAD wrote:
I agree with Jim. If Bernie gets the nomination, or won't back off (like he wouldn't with Hillary) Trump wins...
Observations: Most of the talking heads on the R/L wing news Media are saying no way Bernie beats Trump, including some of the wise Dem Party insiders like James Carville. I have never seen the Reps so confident for Trump winning a second term. I see the Reps way overconfident Trump is a shoe-in for a second term!!! In 2016 the consensus in the weekly poker game I attend said: No way Trump beats Hillary for Prez. Now in 2020 the consensus in the poker game are saying: No way Bernie if Dem Candidate wins vs Trump.

I really don't understand this consensus logic from both the R/L wing media sources Bernie will be doomed for winning Prez if he is Dem Nominee. I can only guess the consensus media is saying this about Bernie because of Bernie's Socialists policies. But here is my fundamental election logic about Bernie vs Trump, not astrological logic: Many of the talking heads on Left Media told me in 2016 Hillary was hurt in 2016 Prez election because Bernie's supporters hated Hillary and felt Hillary cheated their man Bernie, Bernie supporters stayed home and did not vote in 2016 Prez election, true or not true? There were 3 million more voters who voted for Hillary than Trump. Combined with Bernie's supporters in 2020 voting for Bernie in 2020 for Prez with the other angered 3 million more Dem voters than Rep voters absolutely hating Trump voting for Bernie, this indicates to me a huge SLEEPING mad bulldog chomping at the bit to vote against Trump-- no matter what Bernie's policies are. I think the consensus thinking about Bernie not winning vs Trump from the media is seriously flawed! My fundamental election logic tells me Bernie is the best Dem Candidate to upset Trump for Prez. Isn't the main objective of the Dem Party as a whole to beat Trump no matter who the Nominee????

Please tell me with specifics where my fundamental election logic here for Bernie winning Prez is flawed.

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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:57 am

The question of the year is whether more new Democratic voters can be foind this year by veering center to got moderate-right cross-overs against Trump, or veerinv far left to get the Bernie supporters.

I don't know which is the better move right now. I want to use the primaries to test this and see who showa up to vote.

The biggest POTENTIAL flaw in your thinking is that the loudest Bernie supporters are demographics that usually don't vote at all (not just 2016). We have no evidence (yet) that they'll actually show up to vote this year.

South Carolina will be the best test. More on that later.
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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by SteveS » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:04 am

Jim wrote:
I don't know which is the better move right now. I want to use the primaries to test this and see who showa up to vote.
Yes, I think your observation here is important--how many Dem voters show-up in the Dem Primaries. I think 2020 NH Dem Primary may set a record and narrowly break 2008 record for Obama.

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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:24 am

I haven't seen the numbers - were they above average? That would be really encouraging since Iowa was about 25% below expectation.

I wanted to add that South Carolina will be an interesting test of what's happening on the ground. There are important, distinctive dynamics in South Carolina. One is that the Democratic primary is very heavily black voters. The other is that the primaries are "open," meaning anyone can vote in them, not just registered party members; and there is no Republican primary this year. With the latter point, there are multiple reports that Trump very much wants Bernie as his opponent (the way Nixon wanted McGovern as his opponent) and has a ground plan (like Nixon had) to get Republicans to "cross-over" and vote in Democratic primaries, voting for Bernie. South Carolina is a perfect setup for that.

Based on these considerations, we might be able to read quite a lot from the South Carolina results.

BIDEN: It's his best state to do super well, especially before Super Tuesday. If he wins, he remains viable and a serious force a few days later on Super Tuesday. If he does really poorly, then he's probably out of the running with no legs to stand on (but no reason to say so until Super Tuesday is over). If he does so-so... I'm not sure what that means.

BUTTIGIEG: His biggest weakness is that it seems the black vote is not with him, and that's a huge part of the Democratic Party. He's expected to do badly and, if he does, then he's on his way out. If he does even moderately well, that means he's overcoming his biggest weakness and has a serious chance. There's no current expectation he'll do really well.

SANDERS: There is no current reasonable expectation Bernie will do well in South Carolina. It would be a shock if he beat Biden, for example. One would immediately expect another factor at play. If Bernie indeed does really well in SC, then it's a near-certainty that there is indeed a Republican ground game to distort the election by setting up Trump's preferred opponent by supporting Bernie in the primaries and Trump in the general.
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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by SteveS » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:15 am

The following post is only based on my expectations with a possible high probability Bernie is Dem Nominee and wins the Prez. If Bernie is not Dem Nominee my thinking/opinions in this post/thread are obviously flawed/meaningless/garbage!

Due to certain new Business interests which has developed in my retired boring life in the last couple of weeks, I have been somewhat forced to watch more closely the political news being spooned fed to their audiences from the Right and Left wing media sources pertaining to Elections 2020. As a rule I don't watch/listen to political news except when it may affect my bank account one way or another pertaining to a Prez Election. My main interest is what the results of the 2020 Prez election may or may not do to certain markets with possibility Bernie is elected by the people-- Prez. My business success will depend on if I am reading the symbolism in this Libsolar correctly, only pertaining to the results of the Prez election on Nov 3, and how it may or may not affect the markets the day after the election results are known and/or for only the remaining days of election week.

Since Jim and JSAD are Democratic Political activists more closely attuned to certain political stuff than I, I want to listen carefully to their opinions and data even if it doesn't agree with my take. But there are things which are becoming more clear to me by watching political news: The Democratic Party may become high-jacked with Bernie winning Dem Nominee/Prez. And it has become obvious to me the talking heads on the Left-Wing media sources do not like Bernie—they feel if Bernie becomes the Dem Nominee, the Dem Party is doomed to lose elections to the Reps in November Elections. The talking heads from the Right-Wing media sources are confident if Bernie wins Dem Nominee, the Rep Party trounces the Dem Party in Nov elections---and the political news beat goes on and on and on, with what is in my opinion over produced half-truths to satisfy any type audience that is viewing or listening to their networks. Bottom line for the News outlets is $, and for sure the News outlets and their Producers must keep their audiences supplied with what they want to hear in order for news networks to profit.

So I am seeing a most unique news reporting situation from both the Right-Wing and Left-Wing Media sources: If Bernie wins Dem Nominee the Nov election is already over---the Reps win BIG! But as a Sidereal Mundane Astrologer knowing it is a very important branch of Astrology with important 'outstanding incidents' foretold when the event is already known to be scheduled with TIME---the Election---I am starring at a Uranus-Pluto Paran in the 2020 Libsolar quarter, which tells me (IMO) there is high probability an unexpected (Uranus) stunning/shocking (Pluto) event related to this Nov Prez Election will unfold with election results.

Through a link in this thread Jim provided, James Carville, a wise old guard for the Democratic Party known by us old enough to remember, flat out says I think, if Bernie becomes the Dem Nominee/Prez it will create/manifest a political Revolution. Uranus-Pluto is par-excellent symbolism for any kind Revolution! James Carville feels the same as the talking heads from Left Wing media sources, the Dem Party is doomed to election Party failures if Bernie is Dem Nominee. IMO, both the Right-Wing and Left Wing news outlets are dead wrong and are setting their viewers up for a totally unexpected stunning/shocking result in 2020 Nov election by telling their viewers there is no way Bernie Sanders, a long time declared Socialist can win Prez vs Trump. So, if Trump wins vs Bernie, more than likely that will not be a Uranus-Pluto unexpected/stunning/shocking featured in the 2020 Libsolar. This Libsolar is the most interesting/important Sidereal Mundane Astrology chart I have ever analyzed relative to my personal life, and a most important Prez election in 2020 relative to a deeply political divided Nation :( .

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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:42 am

SteveS wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:15 am
Since Jim and JSAD are Democratic Political activists
I can't speak for Jim but I am NOT a Democratic Political activist. I'm not a Democrat, and I'm not any kind of an "activist." I've told you this privately and publically more than once.
What I am, right now, is more than a little annoyed.

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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by SteveS » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:56 am

Sorry JSAD, forgive my senior moment about you being a political activist. It seems I remember in the 2016 election you were helping people who needed help to get to the polls and vote for Hillary--correct? Please correct me if my memory is in error. So, I am sorry about my mistaken assumption you were a Democratic activist.
I've told you this privately and publically more than once.
Not that I remember!!!

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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:59 am

I posted this in this very thread!
Jupiter Sets at Dawn wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:17 pm
You know I'm a Goldwater Republican, right?
I'm your age, Steve. Phooey on your "senior moments."

I was driving anyone who needed a ride to the polls. Nothing to do with Hillary.

Please stop calling me a Democrat and stop calling me an "activist" because I drive people who need a ride to the polls. Geeze.

I don't need another apology. I need you to stop doing this.

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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by SteveS » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:47 pm

JSAD wrote:
Phooey on your "senior moments."
I am seriously jealous of your non-senior moments :) and next time I want bother you with any apologies since you have not accepted my original apology because of my forgetfulness :( . I will stop this and do my best not to forget things again. I now understand how you have taken offense to my posts about my miss-understandings about your political persuasions. As I have told you before, I seriously learn from you with your political understandings which are much better than my non-political background.

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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:22 pm

SteveS wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:47 pm
I now understand how you have taken offense to my posts about my miss-understandings about your political persuasions. As I have told you before, I seriously learn from you with your political understandings which are much better than my non-political background.
Part of an apology is not doing the same thing again.
I'm glad to be able to help you, but I don't like your claimin I'm something I most decidedly am not.

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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by SteveS » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:31 pm

I understand JSAD--lets move on from this forum mishap of communications :) .

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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:39 pm

Fine.

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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by SteveS » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:50 pm

8-), my fault.

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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:59 pm

I thought we were moving on. :arrow:

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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by SteveS » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:31 pm

:) Moving on Jupe.

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Re: 2020 Libsolar

Post by SteveS » Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:13 am

The Right Wing Media is now getting scared their man Trump will be running against Bloomberg. They are trying to destroy Bloomberg with slanderous material. The Right Wing wants desperately for their man Trump to run against Bernie for Prez.

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