Super Bowl LVIII

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Super Bowl LVIII

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Jan 29, 2024 12:33 pm

Game: February 11, 2024, Paradise, NV, ending about 10:00 PM
Kansas vs. San Francisco

YEAR CHART
KANSAS CITY: Moon (Asc 0°58'), Neptune (EP-a 1°06'), Mercury, Moon-Neptune co 0°09' mundo
SAN FRANCISCO: Moon (EP 0°10'), Neptune (EP 0°58'), moderate Venus and Saturn, Moon-Neptune co 0°01 mundo + foreground Venus-Saturn sq (0°09' M)
OUTCOME: It's not great for either, but the amount of disappointment and spoiled fun in San Francisco is definitely greater.

DAY (Transits)
KANSAS CITY: (None.)
SAN FRANCISCO: (None to Capsolar.) t Sun sq Cansolar Uranus [which is on EP-a] while Mercury exactly transits the angular Cansolar Mercury-Jupiter.
OUTCOME: Probably a surprise favoring of San Francisco.

DAY (Quotidians)
KANSAS CITY: t Saturn (Asc 0°32'); EP-a = t Uranus (0°51'), s Uranus (0°54')
SAN FRANCISCO: t Pluto (Z 0°49') [almost has Mars-Pluto conj on angle]
OUTCOME: Kansas City loses (as San Francisco benefits from an upset)


FINAL OUTCOME
Despite the moderately foreground Venus-Saturn aspect in San Francisco's Capsolar, the final analysis is that Kansas City manages to lose this. It surprises everyone and (with the partile Moon-Neptune conjunction in Pisces as the game ends) probably coincides with mass hysteria and extreme emotions. These suggest that San Francisco's win occurs in the last moments of the game, causing surprise, upset, strong mob-level emotions on all sides. With Mars conjunct Pluto in Capricorn, the game itself will likely approach brutal levels (or there could be violence after; but I suspect the former).

I don't think there will be violence after. Paradise, NV CapQ has Venus on MC for the day, conjunct Capsolar Sun - just a great, happy day for the fans. But the CanQ has that Moon-Neptune conjunction on MC, so there is definitely mob-level hysteria.
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Re: Suoer Bowl LVIII

Post by cometwolf » Tue Feb 06, 2024 7:07 pm

Super Bowl odds:
Moneyline
San Francisco 49ers -135
Kansas City Chiefs +115

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Re: Super Bowl LVIII

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:50 pm

As a different way of looking at this... going a bit old fashioned...

The game began at 3:41:38 PM PST with Venus exactly on WP in Las Vegas and Mercury, Mars, and Pluto broadly converged around Descendant. It promises an obvious good time.

At that moment in Kansas City, it was almost the exact minute of sunset. Sun exactly angular is square a culminating Uranus. Jupiter is also in the upper foreground. If we were going only by the game start chart (rather than the methods that have already proven themselves), this would look at a major winning chart for Kansas City.

Furthermore (using an azimuth map), from Las Vegas at the moment of the game start the planet Venus was pointing toward Kansas City.


At the same moment in San Francisco, Mars and Pluto were conjoined on Descendant. If we were going only on this chart, we'd predict that San Francisco gets the life pounded out of them.

FWIW.
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Re: Super Bowl LVIII

Post by SteveS » Mon Feb 12, 2024 6:21 am

Excellent second look Jim from another direction from your 50 Super Bowl Sidereal Mundane Astrology Report. Thanks Jim, I always learn from your analysis.

First, I want to say by far this is the most exciting stunning Super Game I have seen in my life, it kept me on the edge of my chair for most the game. Jim, using your most excellent 50 Super Bowl analysis using Sidereal Mundane Astrology, I picked the outcome of this game exactly the way you picked the outcome. We had no choice but to pick-it this way for your 50 Super Bowl analysis proved 80% correct and I will never bet against an 80% odds in my favor---but there is always that other 20% for error. :)

But there was one aspect with SMA analysis in this game which greatly puzzled me from the get-go as to how a very important angular aspect would manifest for the community of San Francisco and their fans. That aspect was the t Mars-Pluto cnj--- tightly cnj SF CapQ Z, with t Mars partile cnj SF Capsolar Pluto also tightly on SF CapQ Z. I immediately recognized this important placed angular Mars-Pluto aspect as symbolizing a huge psychological effect for the fans of SF but was conflicted how all this Mars-Pluto symbolism would manifest. Normally we look upon Mars-Pluto symbolism as a very malefic effect for possible “brutal” manifestation of something, but many times I have seen Mars-Pluto symbolism in the sporting world manifest as a benefic “superhuman force” in the sporting world with stunning achievements. Tom Brady a great NFL QB was born with an important Sun-Mars-Pluto configuration. So, I concluded with the Saturn symbolism for KC this Mars-Pluto for SF would manifest as a “superhuman force” for a “stunning” (Pluto) victory and late in the game I thought I knew for sure this Mars-Pluto symbolism would still manifest as a late “stunning” winning victory for SF. It was not to be.

Jim wrote:
…at the moment of the game start the game for San Francisco, Mars and Pluto were conjoined on Descendant. If we were going only on this chart, we'd predict that San Francisco gets the life pounded out of them.
More angular Mars-Pluto for SF Jim. SF did not get the life pounded out of them, but I truly believe all of this Mars-Pluto symbolism manifested for the fans/team of SF as taking a “brutal” (Mars-Pluto) psychological loss after it looked like for most of the game SF had complete control of this game and would clearly win. I have seen so many twits of unexpected things happen in major spoting contests.
Where is the main winning symbolism for KC with our Sidereal Mundane Charts?
It’s KCs Master Chart of their Year---their Capsolar with Capsolar Jupiter on Capsolar Asc partile 135 Capsolar Venus. In other words, it was an “outstanding incident” Jupiter-Venus partile aspect and for sure it was a Venus-Jupiter “outstanding incident” for KC---winning the Super Bowl. Bradley in his Solar & Lunar Return book labeled angular Venus-Jupiter aspects as “hitting the lottery” configuration, and indeed KC hit the lottery. No way was the way this game was played-out and witness by a veteran sports fan KC to win this game, SF appeared for most of the game to be the far superior playing team. Ah, the 20-20 hindsight for learning the fine line with out human errors of analyzing astrolgical charts. :)

Anyway, I wanted to say I thoroughly enjoyed witnessing this game through the lens of the rich Sidereal Mundane Astrology symbolism you taught me from your most superb 50 Super Bowl Report analysis. It offers the serious Sidereal Astrologer a unique inner symbolic workings of a sporting contest for their fans with their final emotional psychological feeling with the outcome of the contest. I will never forget this Super Bowl with what I witness and learned through the lens of Sidereal Mundane Astrology. I just hope I have many more years of memories :) . Thanks so much again Jim for your teachings. BTW, do you think we should start taking a look-see at the start time charts for a major sporting contest?

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Re: Super Bowl LVIII

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Feb 12, 2024 7:18 am

SteveS wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 6:21 am
Jim, using your most excellent 50 Super Bowl analysis using Sidereal Mundane Astrology, I picked the outcome of this game exactly the way you picked the outcome. We had no choice but to pick-it this way for your 50 Super Bowl analysis,,,
We did have one other choice: We could have called it too close to call and this would have looked very accurate and reasonable post-game. Since transiting Mercury squared my Saturn yesterday, there was a good chance I'd be wrong about something (though there were other "Mercury stuff got halted or delayed" that also occurred.

The problem is that we had two teams with Saturn foreground on a relevant chart: San Francisco had a moderately close Venus and Saturn (in aspect) a little wider from the angles. I weighed this against KC having transiting Saturn exactly on CapQ Ascendant and decided (wrongly) that KC was worse off. But really I mostly neglected that Venus-Saturn in SF altogether and shouldn't have. I'm sure I've written repeatedly in the past, "When both teams have angular Saturn in one of the primary charts, the correct call is "too close to call."
But there was one aspect with SMA analysis in this game which greatly puzzled me from the get-go as to how a very important angular aspect would manifest for the community of San Francisco and their fans. That aspect was the t Mars-Pluto cnj--- tightly cnj SF CapQ Z, with t Mars partile cnj SF Capsolar Pluto also tightly on SF CapQ Z.
I saw this a little differently. Going by strict orb shaving, Pluto was in partile orb and Mars was not. Mars conjoined Pluto but Mars was not within 2° of the angle. I can tell by how I wrote tings that I was thinking about this aspect, too.

If Mars had been within 2° of the Q angle, I'd have had no doubt SF would lose. Mars (unless with Sun or Jupiter) pretty reliably means "you get hit with too much force, you lose" - Mars is a malefic on games except as Sun-Mars ("young heroes making their families proud") or Mars-Jupiter ("physical excellence and victory trough combat"). If I'd judge that the Mars was part of the picture, I'd have flipped to KC; but Mars wasn't really close enough in the Q.

I also didn't k ow when I wrote this that SF was favored. I assumed (without checking) that KC was favored. This error made it easy for me to take Pluto on Q as "statistical underdog SF wins." (As you know, Pluto on the angle by either team - all other things being equal - favors the statistical underdog.)
Where is the main winning symbolism for KC with our Sidereal Mundane Charts?
It’s KCs Master Chart of their Year---their Capsolar with Capsolar Jupiter on Capsolar Asc partile 135 Capsolar Venus.
Damn: This was an out-and-out error. I calculated the chart wrong! I just checked now and you're right, Kansas City, MO has Jupiter 2°24' from Asc and a barely foreground Uranus square Sun. If you look back at my workup, I list KC's year chart as: Moon (Asc 0°58'), Neptune (EP-a 1°06'), Mercury, Moon-Neptune co 0°09' mundo.

Checking now, I see what happened: I used the Las Vegas chart for KC. (I calculated all the charts for Las Vegas, then relocated them to each city for analysis; but apparently didn't actually relocated the Capsolar and used the Vegas one instead.)

Astrology didn't fail: The astrologer failed astrology. :( The system worked perfectly. If I'd seen Jupiter rising in the KC Capsolar while Venus-Saturn was foreground in the SF Capsolar, that would have been the whole story. (I'm so sorry. I had about five minutes to slam out all the charts in between things at work and I simply screwed up the calculation - even with a computer!)

I'm confused, though, with your reference to Venus-Jupiter. Venus is off in the middle of the 8th house, nowhere close to an angle. It's effectively not even "in" the Capsolar for KC. But the rising Jupiter alone is enough.
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Re: Super Bowl LVIII

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Feb 12, 2024 7:53 am

Hanging my head in disgrace at the math error, here is what I should have written above. (No excuse for me, but I want the record straight that Sidereal astrology nailed it.) - I'm also allowing that I would have known SF was favored, which was a practical technical consideration with the angular Pluto.
Jim Eshelman wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2024 12:33 pm
Game: February 11, 2024, Paradise, NV, ending about 10:00 PM
Kansas vs. San Francisco

YEAR CHART
KANSAS CITY: Jupiter (Asc 2°24'), Uranus barely foreground sq Sun.
SAN FRANCISCO: Moon (EP 0°10'), Neptune (EP 0°58'), moderate Venus and Saturn, Moon-Neptune co 0°01 mundo + foreground Venus-Saturn sq (0°09' M)
OUTCOME: Kansas City is victorious. San Francisco is heartbroken.

DAY (Transits)
KANSAS CITY: (None.)
SAN FRANCISCO: (None to Capsolar.) t Sun sq Cansolar Uranus [which is on EP-a] while Mercury exactly transits the angular Cansolar Mercury-Jupiter.
OUTCOME: A surprise that probably favors San Francisco.

DAY (Quotidians)
KANSAS CITY: t Saturn (Asc 0°32'); EP-a = t Uranus (0°51'), s Uranus (0°54')
SAN FRANCISCO: t Pluto (Z 0°49') [almost has Mars-Pluto conj on angle]
OUTCOME: Kansas City loses (though there are signs of upset)


FINAL OUTCOME
The Capsolar decisively shows Kansas City winning, but the CapQ shows KC managing to lose the game. While I personally think KC wins, my official call has to be that the game is too close to call.

There is an indication that the favored team loses, surprising everyone. The partile Moon-Neptune conjunction in Pisces as the game ends probably coincides with mass hysteria and extreme emotions. These suggest that a win in the last moments of the game, causing surprise, upset, strong mob-level emotions on all sides. With Mars conjunct Pluto in Capricorn, the game itself will likely approach brutal levels.
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Re: Super Bowl LVIII

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Feb 12, 2024 8:03 am

SteveS wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 6:21 am
BTW, do you think we should start taking a look-see at the start time charts for a major sporting contest?
But how do we know in advance when this will be. I'm not a sports fan but turned this on to watch for the moment the game began, using an atomic clock app. If I'd calculated the start chart for 3:30 PM (advertised start of game), it would have been different. I took the second that I heard the kickoff pop.

If I'd used 3:30, Mars-Pluto would have been close to Dsc in San Francisco but also Venus in the immediate foreground. It would have looked even better in Kansas City, though, with Jupiter closer to MC (and Sun still pretty close though farther away).

That's the practical difficulty: 3:41:38 PM is a bit removed from 3:30 PM.

On astrological theory, I don't know. Studying the game chart is the historic way astrologers tried to predict outcomes (it being the "birth" of the game, similar to judging a trip by the moment and place the plane leaves the ground or you turn the car out onto the road for a trip). There probably is something to it, but it's hard to judge without actual statistics. (I don't have start times of historic Super Bowls, for example.) It might be worth watching as an extra thing.

In this case, the kick-off chart would have shown decisively, unambiguously a glorious victory for KC and a day of physical pleasures, strong emotions, and brutal pounding in San Francisco.
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Re: Super Bowl LVIII

Post by SteveS » Mon Feb 12, 2024 8:55 am

Jim wrote:
We did have one other choice: We could have called it too close to call and this would have looked very accurate and reasonable post-game.
Jim, I am so glad you mentioned this choice. When I looked at this game with SMA I too thought about this choice, but since KC had an angular Saturn in one of the important charts, I went with this as the main option for picking a loser—KC. But, still all that angular Mars-Pluto with SF and some wide angular Venus-Saturn stuff told me not to get to over confident with betting on SF, I only bet 25$ on SF at -1.5. I as well had no great winning aspects in my charts, which actually is my main indicator for determining how much to wager on the game.
Jim wrote:
Since transiting Mercury squared my Saturn yesterday, there was a good chance I'd be wrong about something (though there were other "Mercury stuff got halted or delayed" that also occurred.
I understand Jim.
Jim wrote:
The problem is that we had two teams with Saturn foreground on a relevant chart: San Francisco had a moderately close Venus and Saturn (in aspect) a little wider from the angles. I weighed this against KC having transiting Saturn exactly on CapQ Ascendant and decided (wrongly) that KC was worse off. But really I mostly neglected that Venus-Saturn in SF altogether and shouldn't have. I'm sure I've written repeatedly in the past, "When both teams have angular Saturn in one of the primary charts, the correct call is "too close to call."
Exactly Jim.
Jim wrote:
I saw this a little differently. Going by strict orb shaving, Pluto was in partile orb and Mars was not. Mars conjoined Pluto but Mars was not within 2° of the angle. I can tell by how I wrote tings that I was thinking about this aspect, too.
We all have to go with our gut instincts with our analysis. I placed more weight on the angular SF Mars-Pluto than you. The first thing that popped into my mind was: WTF does that angular Mars-Pluto mean for the fans of SF. I came to the conclusion it had to be either the fans were going to witness a “superhuman” performance by their team and win easily or they were going to be “brutally” psychologically disappointed. I chose wrong with my final conclusion.
Jim wrote:
I also didn't k ow when I wrote this that SF was favored. I assumed (without checking) that KC was favored. This error made it easy for me to take Pluto on Q as "statistical underdog SF wins." (As you know, Pluto on the angle by either team - all other things being equal - favors the statistical underdog.)
Yes, I now remenber your teachings. I saw this but it was no big deal to me and I did not want to correct you. Since you wrote the Report on 50 Super Bowls I wanted to stay clear form posting anything—I had already done my analysis and completely agreed with your analysis—but I certainly saw enough conflicting symbolism to only bet the minimum amount of $ on this game.

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Re: Super Bowl LVIII

Post by SteveS » Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:04 am

Jim wrote:
Damn: This was an out-and-out error. I calculated the chart wrong! I just checked now and you're right, Kansas City, MO has Jupiter 2°24' from Asc and a barely foreground Uranus square Sun. If you look back at my workup, I list KC's year chart as: Moon (Asc 0°58'), Neptune (EP-a 1°06'), Mercury, Moon-Neptune co 0°09' mundo.
Damn, I thought you were referring to KC’s Cansolar :o . If I knew it was the Capsolar—for sure I would have questioned you on it! But still when it comes to choosing between and angular Saturn and an angular Jupiter I thought we always go with angular Saturn because it clearly picks losers; whereas, angular Jupiter can easily only be symbolizing a team made it to the Super Bowl not necessarily win it. BUT, I think we must never-ever forget the Capsolar is the Master Chart of the Year for a city/team in a Super Bowl. It deserves enough weight by itself to make sure there are no conflicting symbolism from the other charts.
Jim wrote:
Astrology didn't fail: The astrologer failed astrology.
This happens Jim—we are human and make errors.
Jim wrote:
The system worked perfectly. If I'd seen Jupiter rising in the KC Capsolar while Venus-Saturn was foreground in the SF Capsolar, that would have been the whole story. (I'm so sorry. I had about five minutes to slam out all the charts in between things at work and I simply screwed up the calculation - even with a computer!)
:) I understand Jim but I had already made my wager before I read you analysis, and really didn’t disagree with your analysis. I chose KCs angular Saturn over KCs angular Jupiter. This by itself was a confliction.
Jim wrote:
I'm confused, though, with your reference to Venus-Jupiter. Venus is off in the middle of the 8th house, nowhere close to an angle. It's effectively not even "in" the Capsolar for KC. But the rising Jupiter alone is enough.
This is no big deal to me Jim. When it comes to partile aspects I naturally rely mainly on the 0 90 180 which means both planets would be angular—but I do weigh the partile 45/135 aspects with an angular planet. I feel that this partile Venus-Jupiter in KC Capsolar was a factor but impossible to prove it was this partile aspect—angular Jupiter along was enough---obviously. But I do know this for sure with my passion for witnessing major sports events: The team and fans of SF saw their team as being the better team on the field yesterday and they were. SF should have won this game and KC should have lost---not necessarily by the SMA symbolism but by the visual performances of each team---this happens at times Jim in a major sports contest—sometimes we see a team dominate by performance which SF did yesterday and the other team KC make enough mistakes that they clearly should have lost. This is exactly what happened yesterday. This is KC’s 3 Super Bowl win in last 5 years and I am sure their fans if you could talk with them would tell you they lucked-out and hit the lottery with this Super Bowl win—they know they got beat on the field—only not by the score board. IMO, Venus-Jupiter played a role as a partile 135 aspect---but again Jim—angular Cap Jupiter was all that was needed for this analysis from your Super Bowl Report.
Jim wrote:
While I personally think KC wins, my official call has to be that the game is too close to call.
Exactly Jim! I totally agree Jim!!! Too many conflicting symbolic factors with this game.--to close to call. But I got super entertainment value with our SMA analysis by closely paying attention to this Super Bowl? :)

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Re: Super Bowl LVIII

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:14 am

Those looonnnnggg field goal kicks were impressive! You gotta give them that! That's what kept them in the running until the end in the first place.
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Re: Super Bowl LVIII

Post by SteveS » Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:03 am

Indeed Jim.

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Re: Super Bowl LVIII

Post by SteveS » Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:21 pm

Jim, to make sure I am on the same page with you, you see San Fran mundo 2024 Capsolar with the angular partile Venus 90 Saturn as the main symbolic factor for SF loss, yes? And with your teachings from your book ISR, this aspect would classify as an “outstanding incident” mundo Capsolar Return Chart, yes? Thanks

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Re: Super Bowl LVIII

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:03 pm

SteveS wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:21 pm
Jim, to make sure I am on the same page with you, you see San Fran mundo 2024 Capsolar with the angular partile Venus 90 Saturn as the main symbolic factor for SF loss, yes? And with your teachings from your book ISR, this aspect would classify as an “outstanding incident” mundo Capsolar Return Chart, yes?
Technically, the foreground Saturn. The rule is: If one team has a foreground Saturn in a relevant chart, it loses. If both have it, it's too close to call unless something else clearly breaks it out. In this case, we have the added symbolism of the Venus-Saturn for heartbreak or "that sure spoiled the party." - But the loss signature is the foreground Saturn itself, regardless of aspect.

As a lesser factor, Moon exactly angular had a minor statistical significance for losing - strong enough to note, not strong enough to rely on by itself. (Moon is opposite Sun and Mars in traits.) Moon-Neptune didn't help either, but that CAN go either way (but in this case was only 1' wide in SF).

It doesn't have to be closest. It just has to be foreground. Here is the breakdown (understanding that the whole world had the Moon aspects):

Moon on EP 0°09'
Venus on MC 5°14'
Saturn on Asc 5°24'
Neptune on EP 1°58'
-- Venus-Saturn sq 0°09' M

Moon-Neptune sq. 0°01' M
Moon-Venus sq 2°54'
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Re: Super Bowl LVIII

Post by SteveS » Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:08 pm

For right now, I am going to go with the partile angluar M Venus-Saturn partile 90 as the main symbolic culprit for San Fran loss. Thanks

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Re: Super Bowl LVIII

Post by James Condor » Sat Feb 24, 2024 5:55 am

JE
See how all that work didn't translate into right prediction?

I predicted KC to win and they did. And I did not waste any time with astrology methods. I used logic, reason and intuition. That’s it.
And there Was violence after the game!!!!! Super Bowl parade shooting!

See why people don’t buy into astrology? Not saying it’s wrong. Prediction is difficult!

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Re: Super Bowl LVIII

Post by SteveS » Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:48 am

James wrote:
Prediction is difficult!
Indeed James.
The Ultimate Test of All Formulae Must Lie in Prediction---Dr. D Justin Schove.
Jim and have a passion for using Sidereal Mundane Astrology as a “formulae” for predicting/forecasting things. Everyone has different passions. :)

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Re: Super Bowl LVIII

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Feb 24, 2024 10:47 am

James Condor wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2024 5:55 am
JE
See how all that work didn't translate into right prediction?
You haven't read the whole thread. I eventually discovered I'd completely miscalculated a basic chart. While accepting I was wrong, after discovering the mistake (after the game) I rewrote what I should have said: https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?p=58143#p57870
See why people don’t buy into astrology? Not saying it’s wrong. Prediction is difficult!
It is. But it's way harder when one doesn't calculate the charts for the right city.
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Re: Super Bowl LVIII

Post by James Condor » Sat Feb 24, 2024 12:37 pm

Ok fine.
But your original post said SF would win

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Re: Super Bowl LVIII

Post by James Condor » Sat Feb 24, 2024 12:39 pm

Ok fine.
Either way SB prediction is difficult

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Re: Super Bowl LVIII

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:22 pm

James Condor wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2024 12:39 pm
Either way SB prediction is difficult
The formula in use has about a 70-75% success rate across the entire history of the Super Bowl. that doesn't mean its accuracy will continue, of course.

It's also important when I do this not to rely on any technical information about the players or the teams (which, of course, is what everybody else uses). If I relied on that, we couldn't tell how much of a right answer was astrology.

The exception to "no knowledge" is that it does help to know who Las Vegas favors because we have identified astrological markers for "odds are reversed, underdog is favored." If these appear and there are no clear loss or win indicators (or those are tied), they mean "whoever is not expected to win will win."
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