Sedna

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Sedna

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:42 pm

(Nov 24, 2013)

I've been watching Sedna for about a year now. Although initially I saw some patterns and possible meanings, the process of watching day by day - including return charts and, especially, day-to-day transits - has left me doubting that I saw anything authentic.

Nonetheless, I'll use this thread to download my notes so that I can delete them elsewhere and be done with the subject for the foreseeable future.
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Sedna angularity

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:43 pm

Since Sedna angularity is complicated by ecliptical vs. mundane issues, here are some people with Sedna square the Ascendant - ecliptical conjunction with Zenith and Nadir.

Pres. Martin Van Buren
Susan Atkins
John Nash
Larry King, Alicia Silverstone
Alfred Lord Tennyson
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Transits to Sedna

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:46 pm

1/16/13 - t. ME -90- r. SED-NE
Reading a book on vagina mysteries that I'd put down for several weeks. (Picked it exactly in the hour the transit to Sedna was exact)

2/20/13 - t. VE -90- s. SED
??? Possibly related to helping [a friend with a nonprofit attacking colon cancer]'s new video go viral, and being a stand for a remarkable woman?

5/12/13 - t. ME -0- s. SED
Gave a talk at an meeting about the perversion and diminishment of female sexuality through language.
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Sedna transits to USA luminaries

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:46 pm

Sedna has made the following conjunctions, oppositions, and squares to the USA Sun or Moon:

Sun - Jun 1, 1924 through Feb 10, 1927 (7 aspects)
Was this the heart of the Roaring '20s?
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Transits by Sedna

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:46 pm

2/4/13 - t. SED -0- (r. ME -0- SQ MO)
(Danica reported:) On the day of the station, she was under total anesthesia for a curettage after a miscarriage. She reported that "the overall experience... had the feeling of dying which was at the same time cleansing and which resulted with an unexpected feeling of refreshment and lightness (as opposed to heaviness) physically and psychologically. (NOTE the "bruised feminine" recurrent theme, intensified here by the lunar involvement. Possibly related to the cruelty/killing theme seen in Moon-Sedna natal aspects. Her sense that the anesthesia was the main effect may tie into the "displacement of consciousness" themes in natal Moon-Sedna aspects. - She's continuing for a week on a medication that has "a distinctive psychedelic effect," which might relate to the "universe as a foreign language" phenomenon I've observed in natal Moon-Sedna.

V. - t. SED -0- r. Asc
During the entire time she was trying to get pregnant (both artificially and au natural), a friend had this. (The woman V. mentioned in one chapter of my last book, "Pearls of Wisdom.")
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Moon-Sedna natal aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:47 pm

I have essentially nobody in my sexual history with a Moon-Sedna aspect.

Of people I personally know, I don't see a clear pattern. Possibly they are slight misfits of sorts? (Some charmingly, some belligerently.) That may be too little distinction from the underlying group.

Maybe (big maybe!) they have a hard time "reading the signs" of a circumstance. It seems that the people I know personally with this can be in an environment and not quite figure it out (literally like someone in a foreign land trying to orient themselves when they can't read anything in the foreign language), This would mean that "the world as most people see it" is a foreign land/language to them. I get a feel similar is dyslexics, though I'm not saying that I think this relates to dyslexia.

The four U.S. Presidents with this aspect included some very insightful and effective ones, and no incompetent ones. They are FDR, Jefferson, Coolidge, and Bush I. And one era's two preeminent inventors (Bell & Edison) are both here.

ENTERTAINMENT
Aretha Franklin, Luciano Pavarotti, Bruce Springsteen; Aaron Spelling, Johnny Carson, Merv Griffin (!); Nicolas Cage, Harrison Ford, Heather Locklear, Michael J. Fox, Jane Russell, John Cleese

SADISM & KILLING
Ian Brady, Susan Atkins, Adolf Hitler, Eva Braun, Marquis de Sade, Peter Sutcliffe
(Notice how this ties into her myth.)

OTHERS
Alexander Graham Bell, Thomas Alva Edison, Genazikr Bhutto, Pope Benedict XVI, James Hynes, Ross Perot, Barbara Bush, Joe Louis
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Sun-Sedna natal aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:48 pm

In contrast to Moon-Sedna (which has essentially nobody from my sexual history), I have many with Sun-Sedna aspects (seven for whom I have charts). Of these, two were significant, though most were short-term. With one exception, I notice most that they were all terribly nice about it. There was interest (not exactly "sexual curiosity," but personal or circumstantial curiosity, the way one might get really interested in a TV program one stumbled across).

Others that I know who have this aspect are quite a mix. I'm not sure I see anything in common of them. - There were only two U.S. Presidents (Cleveland and Van Buren).

Margaret Thatcher had a Class 1 opposition. Among other traits, her status as the only female PM of Great Britain automatically bears some of the strong feminist theme that seems present in Sedna.

ENTERTAINMENT
Divine, Luciano Pavarotti, John Lennon, Elvis Presley, Joan Baez, Richard Carpenter, Doris Day, Paul Simon, Hector Berlioz, Carrie Fisher, Merv Griffin, Harrison Ford, Marlon Brando, Jim Carrey, William Wyler, Rush Limbaugh

OTHER
Helen Keller, Augustus, Marquis de Sade, Jesus, Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, Henry Miller, Nancy Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, Martina Navratilova
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Venus-Sedna natal aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:50 pm

Six U.S. Presidents had this aspect: Bush I, Grant, Hayes, Hoover, McKinley, and Truman. Mostly gutsy and willing to try things, several of them nonetheless oversaw economic hard times.

Celebrities tend to be gorgeous, sexy, and charming: Christopher Reeve, Burt Reynolds, Charlton Heston, Paul Newman, Sean Connery, Elizabeth Taylor.

Add a couple of wicked, clever senses of humor: George Carlin and Lewis Carroll.

REPRESENTATIVE EXAMPLES: Pres. Ulysses S. Grant, Pres. Rutherford B. Hayes, Priscilla Presley, Josephine Baker, Chuck Berry, Shirley Temple lack, Irene Cara, Sean Connery, Jimmy Hoffa, Sen. Robert F. Kennedy, Laura Bush, Grand Duchess Anastasia, King Henry IV (France), Havelock Ellis, Lewis Carroll, Vincent Van Gogh
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Mars-Sedna natal aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:50 pm

Of people I personally know, most of these have been people who were ready to step up and help, strong on service. (The exceptions were rare.)

On the Supreme Court, we get the interesting duo of Anthony Kennedy and Antonin Scalia. Listing them here should keep me from crossing into too ready a preconception on simple terms - despite their similarities, they have marked differences.

Among celebrities, there is an unusual number of "strange composers" of stories in different ways. (These ways should be sorted out to see if there are real patterns here.) I note Orson Welles, Lewis Carroll, George Harrison, and Nietzsche. (There are also peripheral figures, that intuition says I should list: Dalai Lama, Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, Johnny Carson.)

REPRESNTATIVE EXAMPLES: King James I, Joan Crawford, Divine, George Harrison, Dolly Parton, Herb Alpert, Hector Berlioz, Dalai Lama, Walt Disney, Alan Watts, Thomas Mann, Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, Werner Heisenberg, Justice Anthony Kennedy
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Jupiter-Sedna natal aspects

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:51 pm

In popular music, the list here is striking: Madonna, Michael Jackson, Belinda Carlisle, Bette Midler, Cher, Janis Joplin, Bruce Springsteen. Big acts with big repercussions. (Among film and TV celebrities, there is a similar qualities - giants and never-quite-giants who, nonetheless, have a Big Show quality in common: Charles Chaplin, Dustin Hoffman, Denzel Washington, Johnny Carson, Merv Griffin.)

There are some people with death on their record: Mark David Chapman, Adolf Hitler, Jim Jones, Dan White. There is also a segment of those who wielded a belief system as a compelling tool: Hitler, Jim Jones, Joseph Smith, Friedrich Nietzsche, and of course many of the music celebrities. (And the eight U.S. Presidents included the like of Lincoln, Wilson, Clinton, and Obama.)

When I look at people I personally know, at a much quieter level of accomplishment, I keep thinking of the word "mythic." It's as if they relate to myth most directly, and their personal power is from invoking a mythic context. (I'm not sure how the murderers fit into that directly - maybe a bit of delusion, a bit of failed ideals???)

REPRESENTATIVE EXAMPLES: Pres. Gerald R. Ford, Pres. Bill Clinton, Margaret Thatcher, Grand Duchess Anastasia, Dustin Hoffman, Johnny Carson, Heather Locklear, Gates McFadden, Russell Crowe, Kevin Costner, Doris Day, Gregory Peck, Debra Winger, Hayley Mills, Red Skelton, Douglas Fairbanks, Laurence Olivier, Sam Peckinpah, Robert Altman, River Phoenix, Madonna, Belinda Carlisle, Billy Ray Cyrus, Liberace, Dimitri Shostakvich, Claude Debussy, Paul Tillich, Maya Angelou, Lord Byron, Gertrude Stein, Jim Jones, Edgar Cayce, John D. Rockefeller, Al Smith, Linus Pauling
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Sedna mundo angularity in JAE SSRs

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:53 pm

Here are years that Sedna was in mundo foreground in my SSRs, within 5° of the horizon or meridian along the Prime Vertical.

1968 1°42' Asc*
1969 3°57' MC
1970 2°01' Dsc
1971 4°17' IC
1972 3°57' Asc*
1974 3°10' Dsc
1984 2°10' Asc*
1987 0°46' IC
1988 2°42' Asc
1989 2°11' MC
1990 0°42' Dsc
* marks years that Eris was also foreground, conjunct Sedna in mundo

There are some pivotal years of inner development here. 1984 was the year of my "discovering my True Will" retirement (and the Caliphate elections), and then '87 was the "start T.'.O.'.T.'." epiphany. The next three years were the early days of getting T.'.O.'.T.'. off the ground.

It's also interesting what's missing. For example, there are few "abrupt departure" years. I do have '72, under which I left home etc., but it skips '73 under which I really left home when (off at college) Jane and I got pregnant and married, and then I stopped school. '74 does cover my big departure, though, when I left Indiana (and Jane) for California. It covers the "revelations and building" years, but stops short of '91.
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Sedna in synastry

Post by Jim Eshelman » Thu May 11, 2017 5:54 pm

My Sedna is minutes from opposite my Neptune, so the only thing I can check from files of my own relationships is someone else's Sedna to my planets.

I have a long list of people close to me with their Sedna aspecting my Sun - a certain age group - which included my longest personal relationship plus my guru of a quarter century. I see no clear patterns of commonality.

I have a much longer list of women who had their Sedna aspect my Mars (a certain age group that had it in one longitude range). There is a marked pattern of them "throwing doubt to the wind" and having sex with me - many as single occasions, two especially important relationships that lasted about a year each, and two other longer-term but more casual.
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Sedna & ingresses

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:53 am

Here's a different angle one might research to see if we can get a handle on the nature of Sedna (if any).

Sedna is very slow, taking about a century to move through one sign of the zodiac. It can spend hundreds of years in a sign - in fact, with an orbital period of 10,500 years, it averages nearly a thousand years per sign, though its orbit is so elongated that currently it is taking about a century per sign. (It took four hundred years to get through Aquarius, just over a century to get through Pisces, about half that to get through Aries; so it will take many thousands of years to get through some signs.)

My idea this morning is that the times Sedna (or any planet) is near 0° Rim, it will be exactly conjunct, opposite, or square Sun or Moon in every ingress chart - just as Pluto is currently doing as it hovers near 0° Capricorn.

Sedna first entered Aries in 1950, went back and forth across the Aries-Pisces cusp for a few years, and finally entered Aries in 1953. When was it within 1° of 0° Aries? And when was it within 3°? And what, if anything, can we see that these years have in common? (Off to do some calculations.)
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Re: Sedna & ingresses

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:08 am

Here are the exact periods Sedna was within 1° of 0° Aries:

Jul 17 1947 to Jul 28 1947
May 11 1948 to Oct 5 1948
Apr 5 1949 to Nov 20 1949
Feb 25 1950 to Jun 9 1953
Sep 9 1953 to Apr 27 1954
Oct 27 1954 to Mar 22 1955
Jan 2 1956 to Jan 19 1956

Here are the exact periods Sedna was within 3° of 0° Aries:

May 16 1942 to Sep 26 1942
Apr 10 1943 to Nov 9 1943
Mar 3 1944 to Jul 9 1958
Aug 14 1958 to May 13 1959
Oct 15 1959 to Apr 5 1960
Dec 3 1960 to Feb 19 1961

The latter is most of WW II and much of the fiercest part of the Cold War (though it doesn't really mark out the Cold War, e.g., falls a year and a half short of the Cuban Missile Crisis). I'm going to be especially interested in the narrower first list.
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Re: Sedna & ingresses

Post by Jim Eshelman » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:02 am

Jul 17 1947 to Jul 28 1947
For example, what happened in the world for these 11 days. (We could count the whole year from mid-1947 though, because this started the day of the Cansolar. Sun was angular through eastern Europe, exactly through Athens and Riga and up through several eastern European countries.)

A lot happened in these few days. Pres. Truman signed the Presidential Succession Act. An Indian passenger ship (SS Ramdas) was capsized by a cyclone, killing over 600 people (an interesting fit to the Sedna story). Burma's head of state and several cabinet members were assassinated. Truman signed another act that created the CIA, the Department of Defense, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the NSC - wow, that's quite a pivotal switch!
May 11 1948 to Oct 5 1948
Founding of Israel as an independent country and installation of a prime minister. Congress establishes the Civil Air Patrol. First Republic of China (Taiwan) legislative session. Acceleration of Soviet Union deportation of Lithuanians to Siberia. The Vanport flood. Germany introduces the Deutsche Mark. The first successful stored computer program ran successfully. First wave of an immigration sure to England. Berlin Blockade and subsequent airlift. HUAC (McCarthy) hearings begin, investigating Communist espionage (including the Alger Hiss matter). The two Koreas are officially formed.
Apr 5 1949 to Nov 20 1949
Feb 25 1950 to Jun 9 1953
Sep 9 1953 to Apr 27 1954
Oct 27 1954 to Mar 22 1955
Jan 2 1956 to Jan 19 1956
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Re: Sedna

Post by Avshalom Binyamin » Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:06 am

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Re: Sedna

Post by Jim Eshelman » Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:21 am

Thanks. It's data even if we don't know what it means.
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Re: Sedna

Post by Freya » Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:07 am

Jim... to summarise it briefly, is Sedna’s influence mildly benefic amidst difficult circumstances? I am confused about the symbolism

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Re: Sedna

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:11 am

We dont know what Sedna's influence is, or whether it has any - that's the most important thing to know.

If it's what I think it is, then it's outside good-bad and there's nothing mild about it. Most astrologers who have anything to say about it are painting quite gruesome pictures that probably aren't warranted, all centered on victimization, revenge, brutality, and the worst of human emotions; I think that isn't warranted and, if there is anything to it, it is far more complicated than that.
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Re: Sedna

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:11 am

Now that I'm at a computer, let me see if I can summarize this better.

Everything I say in this post is from the point of view that Sedna has an actual astrological significance. However, it may not. This is an effort to "connect the dots" on scraps of information, but the dots may just be pizza crumbs. Nonetheless, forward...

My current thought is that Sedna refers to what usually only appear in Western civilization as deep, ancient, archetypal women's mysteries and, a little more broadly, goddess mysteries. I don't think there is real gender distinction, but primarily only women have carried these forward and, so to speak, are the caretakers of "menstrual mysteries." If this analysis is correct, then eventually we will need to identify a broader principle that isn't gendered and, from this, distill a fundamental need that the planet expresses. We're probably not ready to do that yet.

This idea is too big to be simply lunar mysteries (and Sedna is barely lunar at all), or Earth mysteries (totally wrong path). She is closer to goddess expressed in space mysteries, but definitely biological. She is, perhaps, closer to menstrual mysteries than any other single angle.

Specifically, I think she matches best a goddess named Babalon about whom I wrote a large book - the best thing I've ever written, the large book on Sidereal astrology that Sidereal astrologers don't buy and read, called Visions & Voices. Babalon arose from the Enochian system of magick channeled by John Dee and Edward Kelley. Like Sedna, Babalon is difficult to summarize without being misunderstood, and I think your best avenue is to read the book and let the visions seep into your soul meditatively. Nonetheless, as a start, we can perhaps summarize Her nature with four principles:

1. She is consciousness that is both pre-rational and trans-rational. See my remarks on Moon-Sedna aspects above, the sense that language and most people's reality is like a foreign language.

2. She synthesizes every goddess that ever was in an essence that is beyond any of their difference. This synthesis is ultimately akin to Saturn, but Saturn more as transcendental reality than anything material. (Not anti-material; but material is irrelevant.) Her mysteries are equally light and dark (both "bright mother" and "dark mother").

3. All of Her mysteries are intrinsically sexual. In fact, she is the deification of the vagina itself. (Look at Sedna's myths with a fresh eye: Read them as tales of the worst side of how men have treated vaginas and their caretakers through the last few thousand years of history). As goddess, She is both the essence of all pleasure and life, and she is the dark devourer who slits her lover's throat in the instant of orgasm. This polarity is partly natural and partly a reaction to ancient, long-standing simultaneous bringing of great joy and love by the vagina-bearers and great, accumulated rage, terror, and violence for millennia of mistreatment.

4. All of the above is above reason, outside typical personality matrices. When the same kinds of consciousness try to operate inside a normal personality - especially a developing, immature one, or simply anyone not turned deeply toward these mysteries - weird and unbalanced behavior emerges, reactions against reason as a distortion, strange things seeping into pre-established meanings where they don't fit.

Again, consider all of this in my core remarks about Moon-Sedna natal aspects above. It seemed to me that such people have a hard time "reading the signs" of a circumstance. They often can't quite figure it out the signals from their environments (literally like someone in a foreign land trying to orient themselves when they can't read anything in the foreign language), as if "the world as most people see it" is a foreign land or language to them. I got a feel similar is dyslexia's displacement. I found it insightful (I avoided using "intuitive," but it's not far off) and, in others, gruesomely evil and sadistic. Notice that all of these diverse threads of ideas fit together when you consider the four descriptive points above: they aren't different at all.

Under this approach, we would expect Sedna aspecting benefics to show the bright side of it - Venus-Sedna celebrities are gorgeous, sexy and charming, some with a wicked sense of humor; Jupiter-Sedna aspects, among the famous, brings something mythic to their natures. OTOH, Sedna with malefics would tend to draw the darkest, most hurt, most vengeful, most cruel and gruesome sides from the myth. I know almost no Sun-Sedna people, but you'd expect this myth to embody their life and psyche. My Moon-Sedna collection seems right on target.
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Re: Sedna

Post by Gypsi » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:48 am

I have Sedna conjunct my 4th house Mercury, as in: Mercury is at 27 Aries 21, and Sedna at 27 Aries 9. I think my 4th house is my Dad and believe me he tossed me off the boat to sink or swim. I did borrow $30 from him to get back from California. I do not know about the transits of Sedna, but when I discovered Sedna's conjunction it sure made my childhood make sense.

and if the 4th is my mother, well she handed me off at 5 days old to my alcoholic father. But I have Neptune in 10, which is still a tossup on which parent is where.

As far as the Goddess aspect - I discarded christianity after a stillbirth in 1984 (which my father and his wife were implicated in) and discovered wicca in 1987. I remain wiccan, and work with several Goddesses.
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Re: Sedna

Post by Freya » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:51 am

Wow this is fascinating. Have you found the symbolism relieable in terms of predictive astrology as opposed to natal?
I gather, from your post, that sometimes it can be interpreted like Lilith, but if aspected by benefics is like a more drastic moon symbolism. I could have got this very wrong though...

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Re: Sedna

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:04 am

Freya wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:51 am
Wow this is fascinating. Have you found the symbolism relieable in terms of predictive astrology as opposed to natal?
I can't say it's reliable anywhere - natal or predictive. We're too early in that. But here is one excellent example forum member Danica posted some years back when Sedna was stationary atop progressed solar return Moon.
On the day of the station, she was under total anesthesia for a curettage after a miscarriage. She reported that "the overall experience... had the feeling of dying which was at the same time cleansing and which resulted with an unexpected feeling of refreshment and lightness (as opposed to heaviness) physically and psychologically. (NOTE the "bruised feminine" recurrent theme, intensified here by the lunar involvement. Possibly related to the cruelty/killing theme seen in Moon-Sedna natal aspects. Her sense that the anesthesia was the main effect may tie into the "displacement of consciousness" themes in natal Moon-Sedna aspects. - She's continuing for a week on a medication that has "a distinctive psychedelic effect," which might relate to the "universe as a foreign language" phenomenon I've observed in natal Moon-Sedna.
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Re: Sedna

Post by Freya » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:20 am

Jim... as I have recently suffered two miscarriages should Sedna have been prominent in mine as well to be consistent with Danica’s?

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Re: Sedna

Post by Jim Eshelman » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:07 am

Freya wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:20 am
Jim... as I have recently suffered two miscarriages should Sedna have been prominent in mine as well to be consistent with Danica’s?
We don't know, but it sounds correct. (There are multiple possible causes. Yours didn't leave you with the same emotional state Danica reported, and you had Saturn transiting your natal Moon-Saturn.)

Nonetheless... you do have Sedna at 13°59' Aries, opposite your Saturn. Perhaps more interesting, Sedna (which has been at 2° Taurus for a while, taking years to move 1°) has been sitting exactly on your natal Midheaven.

Good catch of a possible fit.
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