TMSA Midpoint Theory

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TMSA Midpoint Theory

Post by mikestar13 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:04 am

I'm going to make some simplifying assumptions which may not be quite accurate but are very much needed to keep the scope of the project manageable:
  1. These rules are for ecliptical midpoints see below for mundane midpoints.
  2. Midpoints are of the form A=B/C where all factors are from a single chart, I will not be considering tA=rB/rC or rA = tB/tC in solunars.
  3. Midpoints not in co/op, sq, or oc to a planet or angle are not considered.
  4. Midpoints don't make or receive transits as such, but say Sun transiting natal Moon will acquire some "flavoring " from their respective midpoint structures.
For mundane midpoints it is clear how to use them in ingresses or any single wheel chart:
  1. Only midpoints of the form A=B/C where a major or minor angle, and B and C are foreground planets are considered.
  2. Major angle midpoints are measured in the prime vertical.
  3. The zenith/nadir midpoints are measured in ecliptic longitude.
  4. Eastpoint/Westpoint midpoints are valid in both RA and ecliptic longitude but only the closer of the two is considered if both are in orb, we won't show both Ep-a = Ma/Ju and Ep-l = Ma/Ju
That leaves me a question about solunars: how do we calculate A = B/C where B and C are natal planets? Do we use the angles of the solunar, the angles of the nativity, forget them altogether or perhaps even this wild idea-- A is a solunar angle, and B and C are foreground planets, without regard to whether the planets are solunar, natal, or both.

I really need some guidance here. I would also appreciate any comments about the other rules, no code has been written yet and there are other things I want and need to write first, so things aren't set in stone.
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Re: TMSA Midpoint Theory

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:23 am

mikestar13 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:04 am
Midpoints don't make or receive transits as such, but say Sun transiting natal Moon will acquire some "flavoring " from their respective
They may, and probably do. However, as a working premise filter for the present purpose, I agree entirely with making it a guideline for selecting what you are displaying.
For mundane midpoints it is clear how to use them in ingresses or any single wheel chart:
I believe these can be taken as reliable and anything else remains speculative. I agree with (actually, I applaud) the standard at least for this level of development: I think of reasons that a much later (post-1.0?) development might want to offer a wider range of options for legitimate exploration.
That leaves me a question about solunars: how do we calculate A = B/C where B and C are natal planets? Do we use the angles of the solunar, the angles of the nativity, forget them altogether or perhaps even this wild idea-- A is a solunar angle, and B and C are foreground planets, without regard to whether the planets are solunar, natal, or both.
For solunars, the main issue would be contact to the solunar's angles.

One could argue that newly "discovered" mundane arrangements could be exposed by the return chart (just like new natal mundane aspects are "discovered"), but I think we'd have to evolve a new theory of this at the very least (inherent problems with how circles of position rotate through other mundane frameworks, since major angles at least are inherently full great circles): We don't know how to calculate them at the moment and I'm not persuaded they have relevance to the specific purpose of interpreting the return chart. (I'm not sure midpoints at all have relevance in a return chart, but that's no reason to exclude that option when you're creating the system for every other kind of chart.)
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Re: TMSA Midpoint Theory

Post by mikestar13 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:04 am

In view of the above, my inclination for now in solunars is to consider mundane midpoints Angle = tA/tB only and leave off any consideration of natal planets for this purpose, a decision which can be revisited in later versions (1.0+?). Thanks for the clarification, Jim.

When I'm ready to code I now understand what calculations to do, and my next step is to decide a format for the printout. The A = B/C style is well known, and I would like to add an orb width indication like for aspects, and a direct/indirect indication (or perhaps co/op, sq, oc). If I go with Direct/Indirect, I will offer the user a choice whether or not squares to midpoints are considered direct (defaults to yes).
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Re: TMSA Midpoint Theory

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:04 am

mikestar13 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:04 am
In view of the above, my inclination for now in solunars is to consider mundane midpoints Angle = tA/tB only and leave off any consideration of natal planets for this purpose, a decision which can be revisited in later versions (1.0+?). Thanks for the clarification, Jim.
For further clarity, in case I miscommunicated: I think mundane tAngle = rA/rB (under the conditions you described) are likely to be important, at least in terms of seeing what foreground natal aspects are concentrated on angles. I only meant to disparage as unproven newly exposed rAngle = rA/rB within the solunar rotational framework.
When I'm ready to code I now understand what calculations to do, and my next step is to decide a format for the printout. The A = B/C style is well known, and I would like to add an orb width indication like for aspects, and a direct/indirect indication (or perhaps co/op, sq, oc). If I go with Direct/Indirect, I will offer the user a choice whether or not squares to midpoints are considered direct (defaults to yes).
Solar Fire's list is pretty good. You may also see something useful in the (mostly unrelated) proposal I just posed in the 0.4 request thread. Here's SF's report on axes (I've set this at 90° sort, 1° orbs, and show the planets that match your TMSA defaults, just to make comparison easier). - I do think it should be in planet order, not in zodiacal order of planets (but maybe with the angles at the top, since one will usually look at the personal points first), so I'll rearrange the sample that way. I'll also drop from three-letter to two-letter abbreviations. I don't think plus-minus signs are needed (so I took them out).

Code: Select all

MC		Ne/Pl 0°03'	Ve/Ur 0°50'	Ve/Ju 0°59'
As		Ve/Ur 0°16' d	Ve/Ju 0°25' d	Ne/Pl 0°37' d
Mo		Su/Pl 0°07' d
Su		Mo/Me 0°05'	Ne/Er 0°13'
Me		As/MC 0°18'	Ur/Pl 0°22'	Ju/Pl 0°30'	Ve/Ne 0°44' d
Ve		Ne/MC 0°20'	Ur/As 0°57'
Ma		Sa/Er 0°34' d	Mo/Ve 0°43' d
Ju		Su/Sa 0°05'
Sa		Mo/MC 0°22' d	Ma/Pl 0°34' d
Ur		Su/Sa 0°22'
Ne		Ma/Ju 0°04' d	Ma/Ur 0°13' d	Pl/MC 0°36'	Me/Er 0°39'	Ve/As 0°46' d
Pl		Ne/MC 0°33' d	Ur/As 0°44' d	Ju/As 0°52' d
Er		Mo/Ne 0°21'
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Re: TMSA Midpoint Theory

Post by mikestar13 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:22 am

Thanks for the more detailed clarification, I will include tAngle = rA/rb midpoints as well, no additional sweat to code. How is your take on tAngle = tA/rB? I'm not inclined to do it, but it is perfectly easy. (In all cases we are only considering foreground planets).
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Re: TMSA Midpoint Theory

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:26 am

tAngle = tA/rB sounds kinda sorta good in theory but I think remains unproven.

I would find it most useful just to draw my attention to some particular aspect being acutely centered on the angles - giving it a little more priority, maybe? But my fantasy is that this would add way more noise than signal.
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Re: TMSA Midpoint Theory

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:29 am

I wish Notepad allowed a selective underline or bold character. (It allows bold but only if you convert the entire file to bold.) What
nobody is doing that I'd like to see done is gentle make stand out those midpoints of planets also in aspect (any aspect that is on current options).

This is of greater interest in natals than returns or ingresses, since in the later you would probably mark most midpoints. In a natal, it makes a few interesting things stand out (and also make obvious when a midpoint energy would be expected without the midpoint just because of an aspect). For example, my chart would look more like this:

MC - Ne/Pl 0°03' Ve/Ur 0°50' Ve/Ju 0°59'
As - Ve/Ur 0°16' d Ve/Ju 0°25' d Ne/Pl 0°37' d
Mo - Su/Pl 0°07' d
Su - Mo/Me 0°05' Ne/Er 0°13'
Me - As/MC 0°18' Ur/Pl 0°22' Ju/Pl 0°30' Ve/Ne 0°44' d
Ve - Ne/MC 0°20' Ur/As 0°57'
Ma - Sa/Er 0°34' d Mo/Ve 0°43' d
Ju - Su/Sa 0°05'
Sa - Mo/MC 0°22' d Ma/Pl 0°34' d
Ur - Su/Sa 0°22'
Ne - Ma/Ju 0°04' d Ma/Ur 0°13' d Pl/MC 0°36' Me/Er 0°39' Ve/As 0°46' d
Pl - Ne/MC 0°33' d Ur/As 0°44' d Ju/As 0°52' d
Er - Mo/Ne 0°21'
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Re: TMSA Midpoint Theory

Post by Jupiter Sets at Dawn » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:46 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:29 am
I wish Notepad allowed a selective underline or bold character. (It allows bold but only if you convert the entire file to bold.)
Does Wordpad still work?
"To use the Wordpad in Windows 10, type 'wordpad', in the taskbar search and click on the result. This will open WordPad. To open Wordpad, you can also use the Run command write.exe. Press WinKey+R, type write.exe or wordpad.exe and hit Enter."

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Re: TMSA Midpoint Theory

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:51 am

Yeah, Wordpad is still on all Windows systems. - I suspect the problem is that, once Mike creates this as a .txt file (relatively easy), he then triggers (I'm guessing) "open the text file," which uses the default .txt app on the computer, whatever it is. (Say, if you have Notepad+ installed, it probably would launch that.) To trigger Wordpad he'd have to save as an .rtf file, not sure how hard that is.
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Re: TMSA Midpoint Theory

Post by mikestar13 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:32 pm

Generating txt files is dead easy to program. rtf not so much. Python libraries do exist, but all I have discovered so far are hard to use.

BTW I am calling Notepad explicit ly. I could allow user to specify in Program Options.
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Re: TMSA Midpoint Theory

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:50 pm

mikestar13 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:32 pm
BTW I am calling Notepad explicit ly. I could allow user to specify in Program Options.
That sounds redundant since the user already can specify a default text editor in Windows default programs. (Either they've done this, or it doesn't matter to them, right?)

From a Windows command line (or in a batch file), you can use start filename.txt to launch a text file with whatever text editor is set as default. Isn't there something comparably easy in Python?
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Re: TMSA Midpoint Theory

Post by mikestar13 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:47 pm

I call Notepad.exe by name. How do I determine the users default text editor?
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Re: TMSA Midpoint Theory

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:09 pm

mikestar13 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:47 pm
I call Notepad.exe by name. How do I determine the users default text editor?
I can probably find that for you. - What I was saying, though, is that there probably is a Windows function that takes care of it for you. For example, in a command prompt you can type START filename.txt and it will open the file filename.txt without you having to specify the text editor program.
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Re: TMSA Midpoint Theory

Post by mikestar13 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:07 pm

I'll try that, and will fall back on notepad if the user's Windows doesn't have that file association set.
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Re: TMSA Midpoint Theory

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:16 pm

Windows will fall back to it. (For example, I've set no custom .txt program, it just uses Notepad by default.)
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Re: TMSA Midpoint Theory

Post by mikestar13 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:27 am

Yes I discovered that around the time you wrote. So some very simple code changes and the user is now able to use a preferred text editor via Windows Settings. I will note the possibility in the documentation.

Basically any editor that can handle a monospaced font and print a degree symbol will work fine.
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