Noviens & Synastry

[Jim Eshelman]

I'm not sure if I ever wrote about this here. If not, then I should.

I've written previously about my process of sorting through whether there is legitimacy to the Novien or Navamsa; and, if so, which one; and, if either, then exactly what features or functions are operative. I don't have final conclusions on much of this, and I've shared some of those generalizations (and many of the questions) before.

For sake of communication, when I'm referring to the Novien or Navamsa indifferently - not distinguishing one from the other - I'll just call it N9. If I want to say something that's about one of them but not the other, I'll use the name.

One thing of which I am completely convinced: The N9 discloses extremely strong minor aspects - all 10° but within tiny orbs (e.g., a 3° orb in the N9 is a 0°20' orb in the natal chart). Every 10° becomes an aspect because 10° x 9 is 90°, so every 10° in the natal is another 90° multiple in the N9. I'm completely sold on these. I sometimes thing I'm derelict not to mention them in every natal chart I look at.

For example, my Moon at 27°24' Aquarius and my Mercury at 17°21' Libra are in exact aspect - just drop the first digit and call Moon 7°24' and Mercury 7°21' and you'll see it. In the N9 they are 0°26' from exact square.

So that's what I know: These are valid, at least in a natal.

There's a lot I do not know. For example:

1. Are these "real" positions or just a way to show off aspects? [This thread is partly about that question.]
2. Navamsa and Novien are identical except everything is shifted 120°. (My Navamsa Moon is 6°36' Gemini; my Novien Moon is 6°36' Libra.) If these are "real" positions, which one is correct?
3. Do sign positions in the N9 matter? [I believe they do not, which puts me 100% t odds with Fagan. I might be persuaded I'm wrong, of course, but I currently think he was overly impressed with this.]
4. Do N9 planets aspect planets back in the natal? [This is a version of whether they are objective or "real." I'm agnostic on this. Tradition and Fagan suggest that at least the N9 Moon does.]
5. Do N9 charts of two people aspect each other?
6. Do N9 charts of two people aspect each other's natal planets?

[Jim Eshelman]

The one factor that makes me least think N9 charts are objective is the Novien or Navamsa sign positions. However, another way around this is to say that even if they are objective, the sign characteristics don't have meaning. If (as research seems to suggest) the characteristics of a sign are homogenous from 0°00'00" to 29°59'60", then the idea that one-ninth of Virgo is also like another sign can't be right, whether we are talking navamsas, decanates, or any other subdivisions of a sign.

The one factor that makes me most think N9 charts are objective is the way that my Novien Sun, Moon, Venus, and Mars touch the natal charts of important lovers. This - you will notice - clearly distinguishes the Novien from the Navamsa. I found that once I let go of the idea that Novien signs were important (thus, I'm not a "secret Libra," Marion isn't a "secret Sagittarian," etc.), then my objections to the Novien all went away and this really startling fact could take its rightful place in my mind.

My own chart and history give a lot of evidence that Novien positions are objective and aspect other people's planets. To my surprise, I'm not completely sure they aspect other people's Novien planets (it would logically seem they must, right?); but I might be wrong on this. I'm not yet ready to rest advice I give anyone else on this, but otherwise it's tentatively settled in my mind.

The first clue something was going on were the Moons. In my natal chart, with Moon in Aquarius, most of the women in my past have had Leo or Aquarius Moons (and the next most common is Scorpio). Interestingly, in the N9, most of them have their N9 Moon in the same or opposite sign as my N9 Moon also - and these two facts (natal and N9) are not mechanically connected. But that's just the start!

[Jim Eshelman]

My Novien has the following positions:

Moon 6°36' Libra
Sun 22°09' Scorpio
Venus 16°55' Scorpio
Mars 20°18' Aries

My wife Marion has the following natal placements:
Sun 14°01' Taurus
Moon 15°59' Leo
Venus 19°28' Aries

My first wife's Sun was 8°01' Libra (and Neptune 6°05' Libra) and MC 17°47' Leo.

My longest relationship (21 years together and 40 years friends) has:
Moon 24°53' Scorpio
Venus 6°18' Capricorn

A woman I almost (intentionally) had a baby with had
Sun 3°32' Libra

A woman I almost (accidentally) had a baby with had
Sun 8°16' Capricorn, Mars 4°09' Capricorn
Venus 21°32' Scorpio

An unusually memorable night:
Mars 6°57 Aries

A several year on again off again companion:
Mars 21°57' Scorpio
Sun 21°32' Libra

A two-year recurring companion:
Sun 4°16' Aries
Uranus 15°42' Taurus
Mars-Jupiter 24° Leo-Aquarius

A two year on again off again:
Moon 22°06' Leo
Mars 19°23' Capricorn
Sun 23°14' Leo

A very friendly single night engagement'
Sun 15°45' Scorpio
Venus 20°18' Scorpio

Someone I spent a week with when we met in Las Vegas
Sun 15°57' Scorpio
Moon 18°57' Cancer

Among misc. others:
Mars 7°21' Libra
Sun 7°16' Libra (but that one honestly never worked)
Mars 16°51' Scorpio (a friend of a friend who was also there)
Mars-Saturn 20° Cancer-Aries (my greatest mutual embarrassment, 2-way Moon-Neptune also)
Sun 6°01' Aries, Venus-Saturn 19° Leo-Aquarius (I think she actually hated me)
Moon 19°47' Aries (someone I lived with for a week while travelling)
Moon 22°52' Scorpio (a great friend; that's where we should have left it)
Venus 6°26' Cancer, Mars 19°30' Cancer

Etc. The contacts are a hard to ignore. Similar ones do not occur at all with the Navamsa.

BTW, with Novien Moon in Libra, the Sun-sign of most women in my past has been Libra.

[Jim Eshelman]

There are similar Novien-to-natal connections the other direction also.

My wife Marion's Novien Moon is 23°51' Sagittarius, square my Sun.

A twelve-year relationship had Novien Moon 24°29' Virgo on my Sun, Mars 29°31' Virgo square my Mars.

My first wife had Novien Moon 25°51' Leo opposite my Moon, among other connections.

My longest relationship had Novien Venus 26°45' Gemini opposite my Mars.

And so forth.