Thoughts by James Condor

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Thoughts by James Condor

Post by James Condor » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:56 pm

I am all for observation and astrological connections. Math and/or observation are what I think of key ways to make connections. I get observation, I've been observing others my entire life. Without sidereal pioneers and professionals I would not even know where to begin though. My circle of friends is small and I would have nothing to compare my observations without this forum. I haven't learned, nor have been too motivated to do calculations on my own. And it wasn't taught to me in public school.
If I get to know someone new, I usually ask for their birth info. I guess their DOB and am usually wrong the first guess. I usually guess correctly in three tries. Today this happened again. I guessed December, Scorpio, but it was February 14th, Valentines day. Aquarius was my second guess. This is what keeps me going and interested in sidereal astrology. And makes me think that Scorpio is also ruled by Aquarius. He is diagnosed schizophrenic; more common to Aquarius.
Currently, I need a change of perspective. I need new information. I think I need more numbers. I need more proof so I can feel my time is being used productively. I always need more understanding, I suppose. I hope to have the time and mind to learn more and find the info I need. I think I might be asking questions as well.

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Re: Thoughts by James Condor

Post by Danica » Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:21 pm

Moon sign is much much easier to recognize on first encounter, than the Sun sign.
QUID VOLIS ILUD FAC

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Re: Thoughts by James Condor

Post by James Condor » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:12 am

Thanks for the post Danica.

The other day, and lately, I've been thinking of the origins of astrology, as I have before. I did make the analogy of Moses on the mountain 'discovering' the ten commandments. People often make stories or evaluations, given an experience, or observation. For example, 'the car is red', vs. 'What an ugly car'. The former, an observation, the latter, an evaluation, subjective opinion. Another example- driving a car doing 100mph, thinking, 'this car is fast'. Is that car fast? Is 100mph fast? Well, its a measurement. 100 is a measurement; But the interpretation is, it's fast. Both the observation, aka, measurement, and interpretation, the car is fast, are relative and dependent on human conditions. The difference is that no one can prove or disprove 100% is fast. If a person feels the car is fast, he/she is right. And if another person thinks it is not, he/she is also correct. If the speed limit is 65, they are both breaking the speed!. But we can measure with accuracy the speed of 100mph. There is Agreement that 100mph is 100mph. Same with a natal chart. No one will argue that on January 9th 1984, the sun is in Sagittarius, using sidereal and from Earth perspective. But all the interpretations are subject to the individuals interpretation. Yet, some people connect and agree. This is the paradox and phenomenon. Group think is also a high possibility.
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Re: Thoughts by James Condor

Post by James Condor » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:31 am

And I wonder where these connections come from. Why would I begin to think that people have astrological archetypes? Well, we read it from some source. I did and you did. We did. But what about before the internet and written books? What about our ancient ancestors? Who made the connection that a star configuration looks like a Lion there for being born you are like a lion? Jung seems to be the most popular modern person on archetype ideas. He says we have a shadow self. But what if I am not aware of it? Can he really speak for me and my experiences? Can he tell me what I am, not even knowing who I am. Some say we are all connected, so yes we all experience the same phenomenon. But at the same time, we are unique. Both local and nonlocal.

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Re: Thoughts by James Condor

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:44 am

Just remember... science isn't about finding the truth. It's about finding the best comprehensive theory that incorporates as many confirmable facts as possible, allows for a high level of accurate prediction from them, and provides a concrete set of claims that can be tested against new facts in order to learn more.

In other words, it's a constant juggling act of conviction and doubt, striving, at any one moment in time, to have a framework of certainty that also is continually tested against new experience.

One doesn't have to be absolutely right as long as one is absolutely certain! :D
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Re: Thoughts by James Condor

Post by James Condor » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:57 am

Yes, I see
I think I am going to research the theory of forms (Plato) and anything else like it (Jung archetype) and see what jumps out at me, to help me understand more the connection to astrology. I want to see historically the human origins and process of astrology.
I am reminded very often, daily perhaps, of the forms I experience. We all must. It is human, organic, natural. Pictures on the wall. Hearing music. Looking into ones eyes and communicating. Everything seems to happen automatically, simultaneously. We see our self in strangers. Music exists consciously. Planet formations must be the same. Conceiving what seems a giant leap in planetary bodies influencing, compared to the local weather, can be mind boggling, frustrating and risky. I question more my personal investment to it. It is abstract.
Out of sight out of mind. Awareness. focus, attention. It makes sense to focus directly in the present. To pay attention to our current surroundings. Astrology parallels more of a virtual realm, as opposed to a more apparent physical realm. I think Astrology has more to do with consciousness.

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Re: Thoughts by James Condor

Post by DDonovanKinsolving » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:12 pm

James Condor wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:57 am
I think Astrology has more to do with consciousness.
I think astrology shows that the Cartesian division between mind and matter is false. It may be more true that consciousness and matter exist along an uninterrupted continuum.

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Re: Thoughts by James Condor

Post by Jim Eshelman » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:24 pm

DDonovanKinsolving wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:12 pm
It may be more true that consciousness and matter exist along an uninterrupted continuum.
My view entirely. Here is a quote from Chapter 00 (the second chapter) of my book, Pearls of Wisdom:
Whether we call the universe an astrophysical construct or a goddess, we are speaking of something inconceivably vast, mysterious, and wondrous that is conscious. Everything in the universe, and the universe itself, is conscious. This is no longer a matter of belief: It is only a matter of labels. Explorers of the physical universe and of the metaphysical universe have come to many identical conclusions, separated primarily by terminology.

With the experimental findings of quantum mechanics, modern physics leaves little to distinguish the universe’s physical substance from consciousness. Scientists who still hold the view that there is no demonstration that consciousness as such even exists could, as easily, view the same data as meaning that consciousness is the ONLY thing that exists.

Centuries before E=mc2, spiritual texts described solids, liquids, and gases as varied states of one thing, differing only by the velocity (“vibration rate”) of its fundamental particles; that gases could be accelerated further (“raising the vibration rate”) to sublimate as light; and that light, accelerated further, becomes “spirit.” Only the amount of energy at atomic levels differentiates between solids, liquids, gases, light, and consciousness, which are modern rationalist terms for what the ancients termed Earth, Water, Air, Fire, and Spirit.

If the entire universe is conscious, and composed of consciousness (as seems true to me, and required by contemporary physics), then it is only a matter of convenience and preference whether we label it with terms from physics or terms from religion.

I prefer a mythic approach. Humanity loves stories: we live by stories, often being satisfied to live life as a soap opera or a Great Tragedy rather than have no story at all. Frankly, all that most people need in order to transform their lives is to write or find a better story to live...
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Re: Thoughts by James Condor

Post by James Condor » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:36 pm

Yes, I agree. From my experience of all I've read and all the science programs on spiritual realms/quantum science, and from observing and reading about people having insights, connections, visions, including my own, it comes down to this simultaneous, non linear, non local consciousness that is everything. Consciousness is the only thing that exists. Which is a great experience and feeling. I can't ignore the paradox of the human condition being both subject and object and how unbelievable it is to think, feel or know, we actually can live in different dimensions, a physical and virtual realm. Seemingly.

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Re: Thoughts by James Condor

Post by James Condor » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:49 pm

Logic of dignities

The dignities do not follow a logical pattern in fact quite the contrary and at times are random and chaotic. An easy example of this is the symmetry

Aries/Scorpio-Mars, Libra/ Capricorn-Saturn, and Taurus/ Libra- Venus. Sagittarius/Cancer-Jupiter. By this logic, Taurus/Sagittarius, Gemini/Capricorn, Cancer/Aquarius, Leo/Pisces, Virgo/Aries, Scorpio/Gemini, Capricorn/Leo, Aquarius/Virgo, and Pisces/Libra, should also all share a common dignity.
Also based on dignified Libra/ Capricorn-Saturn (two rims 60 degrees apart), Gemini/Virgo-Mercury Sagittarius/Pisces-Jupiter Capricorn/Aries-Mars then this also does not follow suit in where Aries/Cancer, Taurus/Leo, Cancer/Libra, Leo/Scorpio, Virgo/Sagittarius, Scorpio/Aquarius, Pisces/Gemini, Aquarius/Taurus should then share a dignity

Either the observations of dignities are not accurate or complete or observations have not yet been made or shared for the remaining pairs. It only makes sense.
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Re: Thoughts by James Condor

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:04 pm

James Condor wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:49 pm
By this logic, Taurus/Sagittarius, Gemini/Capricorn, Cancer/Aquarius, Leo/Pisces, Virgo/Aries, Scorpio/Gemini, Capricorn/Leo, Aquarius/Virgo, and Pisces/Libra, should also all share a common dignity.
Of these nine examples, three do indeed have either shared dignities or = equally important IMO - shared debilities (which equally characterize them).

Taurus/Sagittarius - none
Gemini/Capricorn - Jupiter debility
Cancer/Aquarius - none
Leo/Pisces - none
Virgo/Aries - Venus debility
Scorpio/Gemini - none
Capricorn/Leo - none
Aquarius/Virgo - none
Pisces/Libra - Venus dignity

The others are all... interesting. Some have inferred connections. Ancient Greeks and Romans attributed Sagittarius to Artemis-Diana, i.e., the Moon, which gives Taurus-Sagittarius and Scorpio-Gemini a connection. Cancer-Aquarius are quite thematically different, but one is lunar and the other in-solar. Leo-Pisces have quite a lot in common despite being dramatically different in other ways (emphasis on the "dramatically"). There are a lot of people who would argue that Mercury has an inherent connection in Aquarius which (whether it does or not) speaks to a recognition of similarity between Virgo and Aquarius (and, thus, Leo and Pisces).

It's a good mind exercise.
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Re: Thoughts by James Condor

Post by James Condor » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:06 pm

What about the last part I added after your post. They don't seem to fit even the debilities. For example Aries/Cancer is Pluto/Sun/Mars vs Moon/Jupiter. Cancer/Libra the Jupiter vs Saturn. Virgo/Sagittarius is Mercury vs Jupiter, Pisces/Gemini, Neptune vs Mercury. It is a direct opposite yet logically accurate.

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Re: Thoughts by James Condor

Post by James Condor » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:11 pm

It does not makes sense to me how random it all is

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Re: Thoughts by James Condor

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:07 pm

James Condor wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:11 pm
It does not makes sense to me how random it all is
So let me ask you a question: Why do you think it should appear orderly?




(PS - The rulerships, or course, and bizarrely, exactingly orderly. It's only the the exaltations that appear unorderly. My personal view is that the ancients were fixed with the 7-planet version of this current mix, and isolated the rulerships as the part they could schematize.)
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Re: Thoughts by James Condor

Post by Jim Eshelman » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:59 pm

Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos is a striking example of taking a very orderly pattern and replicating it as almost a universal key to most things. I think he went too far, but it's worth mentioning, I think, as an example of where ideas originated that persisted for millennia (in some circle: up to the present day).

Thus, with Moon and Sun ruling Cancer and Leo, the other rulerships went out from there in both directions: two for Mercury, then two for Venus, then two for Mars, then two for Jupiter, then two for Saturn. This is usually known.

Less known is that certain ideas about aspects and houses came from the same basic pattern. In aspects, with the conjunction taken as the luminary-like starting point (and the opposition being its counter part), the first two signs (semi-sextile, were there an aspect there), being like Mercury, were considered insert; the next two (sextiles), being like Venus, were harmonious; the next two (squares), being like Mars were dynamic and (some would say) malevolent; the next two (trines), being like Jupiter, were lucky; and the next two (quincunx, were there an aspect defined), being like Saturn, were dead and of no effect.

Among houses, with the 1st house being the luminary-like starting point and the 7th its counterpart, the squares (4th and 10th) were considered strong and dynamic, being like Mars. The two sextile and two trines houses (3rd, 5th, 9th, and 11th) were considered variations of good fortune. The two on either side of the 1st (12th and 2nd) and six houses away (6th and 9th) were considered

Just as a point of curiosity...
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Re: Thoughts by James Condor

Post by James Condor » Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:59 am

Because all laws of nature originate in symmetry and the symmetries in the laws of physics determine the properties of the particles found in nature. All laws are consistent in measurement and anything laying outside of the symmetry shows the difference between what is true and what is not. Because the planet have a fixed qualities and the relationship between planets being in signs can be measured to a fixed location, then the same pattern should follow. It would be different if the planets were unpredictable but the whole idea of astrology seems to be to predict or forecast, meaning we have to find consistency to do that.
The astrological level that humans can experience is both physical and virtual. The physical is more apparent and is measured in the human capacity. As soon as something is contrary, or asymmetrical, questions of completeness or understanding follow. The more solid the foundation, the more growth. The more understanding. Closer to the truth, or virtual realm. It is a matter of accuracy, of completeness. I need to work off a solid foundation.
You and others might see things differently. And I like the Ptolomy info you provided. I was not aware of what he did.

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Re: Thoughts by James Condor

Post by James Condor » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:52 am

Right now the sun is in Scorpio and Uranus is a planetary energy I think I feel. Mars and Uranus might be difficult to distinguish thought. So it seems like the driving energy force of Mars and the freedom, fun loving Uranus.

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Re: Thoughts by James Condor

Post by James Condor » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:16 am

I was sooo tired at about 8p last night for no apparent reason and felt like I took a sleep aid. My routine was the same as usual. I spoke with two other people who said they slept really well too. I wonder if Sun moving from Scorpio into Sagittarius, has something to do with it?

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Re: Thoughts by James Condor

Post by SteveS » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:21 am

:) Interesting, I had a friend call me Friday night and basically tell me the same thing happen to him for the first time in his normal everyday sleeping life.

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Re: Thoughts by James Condor

Post by James Condor » Sat May 12, 2018 8:08 am

    Some time in the early a.m May 10 I drempt of having to meet the devil or grim reaper in a dark abandoned basement with a few others I don't recall. I remember feeling at first when hearing I had to meet, a denial or unreal, skeptical response. Then It became fear. Next understanding and purpose. When waiting in the basement for it, me and the other people communicated anxiously; "Where is it? Is it here yet? I feel its presence. Is that it? A sense of calm came over me. An acceptance of the fear. I decided to surrender. Soon we all heard the creature approaching and I knew this was it. A transcending effect occurred. I thought of Mars and Pluto. But I didn't have these transits then. I do now, but not then.

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    Re: Thoughts by James Condor

    Post by Jim Eshelman » Sat May 12, 2018 11:21 am

    Wonderful dream and (at least one level) so easy to understand. (Jung would have loved that one :) .)

    Pluto is still your strongest transiting effect, in range of your Sun if it comes up on return chart angles, and square your Ascendant. There is life-and-psyche rearrangement going on at an accelerated pace over these few years.

    But the close, powerful one right now is Uranus opposite your Mars. From that (not necessarily thinking about the dream) I expect you have powerful surging needs to BREAK OUT and break loose. Looking at this in terms of the dream, Mars is one of the forces in subconsciousness that houses our fear and hatred, and also our power: The exact same energy in us is WILL if turned outward in action, and fear and hatred if turned inward on ourselves by the simple act of NOT expressing the force outward. Uranus wants to break this loose in you this year.

    And the dream occurred as transiting Mars was sneaking into the pattern, not quite close enough to outwardly manifest, but certainly close enough to do so inwardly. By today, you're probably feeling Mars-Uranus to your Mars much more openly and actively, and it will spread over the next few days. (At the end of its retrograde loop late summer, Mars will turn direct again where it is today - square your Mars. This growth cycle will probably be completing about then.)
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    Re: Thoughts by James Condor

    Post by James Condor » Tue May 15, 2018 4:33 pm

    Very cool. Thanks Jim

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    Re: Thoughts by James Condor

    Post by ScarletDepths » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:59 pm

    James Condor wrote:
    Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:11 pm
    It does not makes sense to me how random it all is
    And out of choas, came the night, and she bore the inescapable reality of men.

    I'm speaking of Nyx, one if the many godessesd of night, and her Parralel to pluto and the big bang.

    As someone who is chaotic [neutral] in nature I believe the universe is inherently chaotic and we as people deem it on our selves to find order.

    Ancient astrologers used astrology as we used science, to find order in things.

    I personally do believe in the subconscious/unconscious and the things that people do that make them tick that they do not realise.

    I see you and Jim have underlying Parralels apparent to be Virgo in nature. My angular Mercury enjoys reading your discussion, but also the chaos that actualy lies with in it. It is ironcly different than your Virgo in its unorganized nature.

    Matter is finite. Thought as far as I'm aware isn't, therefore the bounds of our minds are just as expansive as the universe. I like to think that every thought expands the universe actually.

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