SaintJames - Need insight on my natal chart

[SaintJames]

08/12/1988 5:17 am Centreville, IL

[Jim Eshelman]

08/12/1988 5:17 am Centreville, IL

Welcome to Solunars, SaintJames.

Illinois has five towns called Centerville, in Calhoun, Knox, Macoupin, Piatt, and White Counties. In which were you born? (And do you still live there?)

Anything particular you want to know from the chart?

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:52 am
08/12/1988 5:17 am Centreville, IL

There are five Centervilles, and one Centreville, in St. Clair County.

[SaintJames]

It’s Centreville, IL st. Clair county

Oh and I live in Atlanta Ga right now. I’m looking to see if I really have a grand trine in fire and what exactly does that mean? What are my strongest planets and aspects? I’ve also been diagnosed as mentally ill. Is there something in my chart that triggered that? But honestly what ever information I can get.

[Jim Eshelman]

I’m looking to see if I really have a grand trine in fire and what exactly does that mean? What are my strongest planets and aspects?

The idea that trines are "really good" is a Tropical fiction - the whole "good trines & sextiles, bad oippositions & squares" doesn't work at all, and sadly has been retained by less observant astrologers.

Another fiction (we've had a couple of people wander in with this idea this week) is that planets can aspect angles. That is, you only have a Grand Trine (I think that was the term you were looking for) if the Midheaven is included, and there's no validity to trines to Midheaven. You do have Mercury in Leo trine Saturn and Uranus in sagittarius, and these aspects affect your Merury - giving you (for example, more independence of thought and more objective (almost scientific) ways of assessing data than if you didn't have those aspects.

But let's go back to the beginning. Here's a copy of your chart in the Sidereal zodiac. After the chart, I'll put some notes on what the strongest factors in your chart are.



The most important CONSTELLATION is Cancer, where your Sun and Moon are bgoth placed (in very close conjunction). You can read about Sun in Cancer and Moon in Cancer here:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=35#p158
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34#p145

Also, we recently spent a month reassessing some of the particular of Sun in Cancer, in a long thread that is still active. You might want to look through this to see where new observations and thoughts are spinning: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=1547

Your one ANGULAR PLANET is Pluto. Interestingly, your move to Atlanta hasn't significantly changed your chart, because Pluto is the one angular planet either way. Pluto is on th Nadir (looks like square to Ascendant) within 1°52' at birthplace, and within 0°47' for Atlanta, so it does make the effect even stronger. Here is an interpretation of Pluto angular:
http://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=38#p191
(Also, for Atlanta, your Moon and Sun come a little closer to Ascendant, so you probably have a more natural tendency to "shine" and find self-expression there, though you are still substantially a private person who relies on the privacy of your home and personal things to recharge.)

These are the most important factors in your chart. Get a good, integrated idea of what these mean first, and then we'll move on to other factors that mix with them.

Here are the most important ASPECTS in your chart. After you have a clear idea of Sun and Moon in Cancer + Pluto angular, start integrating that information with the meanings of these aspects. You can find aspect interpretations in the top three threads here:
viewforum.php?f=16

The most important, that you should examine first, is:
Moon-Sun (conjunction 1°01')

Moon and Sun are both semi-square Venus (Sun-Venus 0°19', Moon-Venus 0°42'), so you can weave that into the picture after you understand your Moon-Sun conjunction and how it mixes with Sun in Cancer, Moon in Cancer, and Pluto angular.

Next, you have an emotioally powerful mix of Venusl, Mars, and Neptune. The Venus-Neptune and Mars-Neptune aspects are most important, but the wider Venus-Mars has to be included in the picture. Here are the orb:
Mars-Neptune (square 2°19')
Venus-Neptune (opposition 3°11')
-- Venus-Mars (square 5°30')
You can read about each of these in turn. The main things that concerns me about this T-suare configuration are that (1) it is a very powerful psychological, emotional dynamic in you AND (2) it is very background, in weak parts of the chart that have difficulty expressing themselves. Over time, powerful energies within us that we don't freely exprss become toxic, often turning on our health or coming out in less direct, more covert, less voluntary ways. If there is one pattern in the chart that most deserves your reflection and self-examinination, it is this one.

Next, we have several aspects that especially affect your mode of thought, mental processing, and communication:
Mercury-Jupiter (square 3°47')
Mercury-Uranus (trine 2°09')
Mercury-Saturn (trine 3Mercury-Jupiter (square 3°47')
15')
Saturn-Uranus (conjunction 1°06')

I’ve also been diagnosed as mentally ill. Is there something in my chart that triggered that?

"Mentally ill" is a broad category. Are you willing to say more about the diagnosis, or the particular symptoms you experience?

For example, your chart isn't obvious for any kind of psychosis. The strains on Mercury aren't severe (anything that might be called strenuous is mild, and normally would be strengthening.) Unless there was a severe set of life-experiences (falling at a time when unusual transit pressures were on your chart), I wouldn't expect psychosis from this.

Where your chart (looked at negatively) is most likely to run into trouble is in antisocial directions. Sun and Moon botyh in Rim constellations (Aries CAncer, Libra, Capricorn) have, overall, a greater tendency to get in trouble with themselves and others than any other sign types. (The positive side of Rim luminaries is the ability to move things, make things happen, set wheels in motion, develop executive strength, etc.) The strong Pluto feeds antisocial trends because it more easily lives outside society, not entirely "getting" all the rules and arbitrary considerations and judgements society imposes, and feeling really pressed upon to conform to arbitrary things that seem insincere. You probably havne't had good modelling in early olife on how to appropriaely express anger. And then there is that emotionally powerful Venus-Mars-Neptune that I've encouraged you to read about in detail.

Yeah, this kind of pattern I see. It would normally be classified as an entrenched behavioral issue, not stigmatized as "mental illness."

I could also see some narcissistic tendencies. You have a big heart - you feel things very strongly - but there is also a strong focus on yourself and (during stressful, unhappy times) a real hungering for attention, and behaviors that demand attention (whether for acceptuable behavior or the other kind).

Notice that I'm not jumping on the "you are mentally ill" bandwagon. Your chart, in geneal, shows someone who thinks differently than most people, organizes the universe in your own way, feels things powerfully, is willing to live outside conention, and probably pays for that privilege by more loneliness than you like to think about - but these things aren't inherently pathological. They're just individual.

So, please, give us feedback on what you've read here, and discuss the details of your diagnosis or particular concerns if you like.

CURRENT PATTERNS
Transiting Uranus is about to cross your Midheaven. Here is a brief, generic paragraph for this transit, from the Transits section of this forum.

Need for freedom. Individuality is emphasized. A basic truth of your identity emerges. Changes in career, status, life-goals. Maybe crisis involving authority. You need to be more your own boss now. Tension shows you resist appropriate changes; but enthusiasm signals you are likely on the right track.

That's the main journey you're on right now. Meanwhile, over the next few months, transiting Saturn will conjoin your natal Neptune. This one is tough and subtle, so I'l lgive you the longer, more nuanced interpretation, rather than the brief summary:
Dreams and ideals now become grounded. If well formed and realistic in the context of your life, they are made sounder, and steps are taken to manifest them as concrete reality. Otherwise, be prepared for some healthy disillusionment, freeing your imaginative energies for more practical ends. Either way, certainty is a theme of your thinking and wishing patterns right now. Your ideas of what is real, "how things are," "what is going to be," are keenly focused by your wishes, and tend to be rigid. This trait bestows a powerful ability to focus on a goal; and yet taken to its extreme, it also may limit your awareness of problem-solving options available to you, possibly leading to the emergence of some private demons to haunt you: troubled mental states, frustration, suspicion, and despondency. Instead of tightening your attachment to preconceived ideas, why not make full use of your ability to make practical goals a physical reality?

If something is going to kick off a "mental illness" spree to which you're already vulnerable, it will be this aspect. I suggest you watch for it, don't resist it BUT look at the different erxpressions for it. One thing that makes Saturn-Neptune a problem is feeling, increasingly, that you don't have options or opportunities for change; and you're having this at the same time that Uranus on your MC says CHANGE, CHANGE, CHANGE! You should be able to use these two energies collaboratively to nagivate this very promising period.

[SteveS]

Hi SaintJames, and welcome aboard with your exploration/discovery of Sidereal Astrology. Sidereal Astrology is an excellent branch of astrology if you want to see/understand astrological things better for your life. I am endeavoring to teach free Sidereal Astrology classes beginning this April, and welcome you to attend, if interested. I used to do a-lot of business in Atlanta and you are only a couple of hours from my hometown, Springville, Alabama.

Sidereal Solar Returns (SSR) are very important in Sidereal Astrology, and Jim has a book still floating around as used books on Amazon.com, ‘Interpreting Solar Returns. I highly recommend you get this book, it taught me so much. Here is a link for your current interesting 2017 SSR for Atlanta:


https://imgur.com/a/esaej

Note your SSR Moon approaching conjunction with your SSR Uranus in your 2017 SSR. I find it most interesting when you made contact with this forum, your secondary progressed SSR Moon was partile conjuncting your SSR Uranus, par-excellent symbolism for exploration/discovery. I guarantee you have discovered a very important branch of astrology, which will indeed help you break away from much fiction embedded in most of mainstream astrology. Below is a link to your Solar Quotidian (Progressed 2017 SSR) when you first posted on this forum. Note that partile (less than 1-degree) conjunction of Moon-Uranus, and the SQ Venus-Pluto across the horizon. Venus-Pluto is par-excellent symbolism for potent redefining relationships, which I think obviously has something to do with Sidereal Astrology. Again, welcome aboard.

https://imgur.com/a/iEznF

[SaintJames]

Wow. There is so much I don’t know and honestly Jim I wouldn’t know where to look for that information. I was diagnosed with depression, anxiety,and ptsd (this happened in 2016) but when I lost my job at the time I was in the hospital and the doctor was messing around with the idea I was bi polar but I haven’t had insurance since. Can I get any insight on where to start? If you have any more questions or if I missed something you asked I’m sorry just let me know.

[Jim Eshelman]

I was diagnosed with depression, anxiety,and ptsd (this happened in 2016) but when I lost my job at the time I was in the hospital and the doctor was messing around with the idea I was bi polar but I haven’t had insurance since. Can I get any insight on where to start?

PTSD changess things a bit, because it means something specific happened. (I did mention the possibility that there was a specific event pushing some of this.)

Nonetheless, speaking not as a medical professional, if the "where do I start?" question refers to the mental health issue... sometimes it's better not to approach these things through a label, but through specific behaviors. Do you agree with me that the antisocial description was correct, or is it not an accurate description of you? If it is, then it seems to me the most important things to focus on are:

1. Difficulty appropriately expressing anger cleanly. (You are probably caught in the loop of withholding anger, then losing control of it - do you agree?)
2. Feeling alienated from society, with more extreme and alienating behavior.

If it is true bipolar, that can be handled be a combination of insight therapy and medication (everybody's "mix" is a little different). Do you have a family history of bipolar? If mot, my personal, nonmedical opinion is that you shouldn't get overly attached to he label Some of the same extremes and swings can come from the two items I mentioned above, (1) deep anger management stuff and (2) alienation / authority stuff.

I don't know what the PTSD i about, but evidently something bad happened that keeps getting restimulated. That's a concrete thing to work on, and it can swing you through the depression and anxiety cycle. Also, depression is commonly a way of managing anger suppression etc.

And you have that Saturn-Neptune coming up, which can be quite depressive. It will be a stretch (much of this year) when you will have to deal with that scenario day by day.

And, of course, I'm shooting from the hip, trying to take what you've given me and run it back through what I can see in your horoscope without the benefit of your medical history, etc. Please take what's valuable from this (but feel free to give feedback: It helps us keep growing as astrologers).

[Jim Eshelman]

PS - I see that I never did get a copy of your horoscope posted above. I'll try to make that happen today.

[SteveS]

SaintJames wrote:

I’ve also been diagnosed as mentally ill. Is there something in my chart that triggered that?

Indeed! I see something that could have timed, 'triggered' a huge mental problem for your solar year with your current Sidereal Solar Return with your immediate living environment. First, look at some of Jim’s words from his book ‘Interpreting Solar Returns.’ Jim writes:

The Solar Return is the basis of the most powerful forecasting system presently known to astrological technology. The Solar Return is capable of specifying events with great clarity and acuity.

SaintJames, look at your Sidereal Solar Return (SSR) which I posted with a link in my last post. We see Saturn tightly cnj SSR Ascendant. Many on this forum use as a delineation aid for determining planetary symbolism with certain tones, Reinhold Ebertin’s book “Combination of Stellar Influences,” (COSI). Here is what COSI says for important tones with Saturn-Ascendant symbolism:

Principle: An inhibited personality.
Psychological Correspondence (negative): The tendency to feel hindered and depressed, suffering from limiting or poor conditions and circumstances; the wrong outlook on life.
Probable manifestations (negative): Inhibitions or suffering caused through the environment or through the family, disadvantages through others, the tendency to segregate or to separate from others.

Now note how your very potent angular SSR Saturn is aspected SaintJames. We see a grand trine of Moon-Sun-Saturn, with a partile direct midpoint of Sun/Moon=Saturn. Ebertin says for a tone about this Midpoint:
Inner inhibitions or repressions, the state of feeling depressed, increasing loneliness, separation from the community, renunciation, difficulties in the relationship with the other sex, joint and shared suffering, illness, separation (divorce).


SaintJames, understand everything Ebertin says above does not mean it will specifically manifest, they are only strong psychological TONES for whatever reasons. We Siderealists can certainly see with your current SSR, a harsh psychological environment with potent angular Saturn and its aspects being the ‘theme’ for your solar year. SaintJames, do you want to offer the specifics for what you are/have experienced since you last birthday? SaintJames, there are good possibilities you are not actually ‘mentally ill,’ only suffering a-lot of depression TIMED by your current Solar Return. This would mean after your 2017 SSR is finished, you will see a marked improvement in your mental health.

SaintJames, just noticed your last post, so you have now answered the specifics about why for your depressed situations. I truly am sorry for this nasty TIME in your life. But try to understand, your current SSR is timing your depressed psychological feelings. Things will get somewhat better after your current SSR. ends.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

The most important (your natal), that you should examine first, is: Moon-Sun (conjunction 1°01').

I totally agree with Jim here and can add some more important insight into your Natal Chart SaintJames with your natal New Moon. Whenever there are no close orb angular planets in a Natal Chart, the next best place to examine are your lights, particularly Moon. Direct tight orb midpoints to angles and lights are very important. Do you have any direct midpoints to your lights/Moon? Yes, you do, and it is malefic. Mars/Saturn=Moon! Ebertin writes about tones for this Midpoint combo:

…Depression…

SaintJames, looking at your Natal and your 2017 SSR, I can certainly understand much better the depression you must be experiencing. You Saturn ‘themed’ SSR was wired into your Natal Sun Moon cnj and SSR Moon.

SaintJames wrote:

I was diagnosed with depression, anxiety, and ptsd (this happened in 2016) but when I lost my job at the time I was in the hospital and the doctor was messing around with the idea I was bi polar…

SaintJames, I strongly encourage you to go to the below link and read all of Arena’s links on new ground-breaking scientific research with Psilocybin in a-lot of cases healing/curing patients with serious depression. I encourage you to attempt to get your doctors to seriously consider getting you in a clinically controlled environment for Psilocybin with your depression problems. Prominent planetary symbolism reflects strong depression tendencies off-on in your life. And please, if your doctors can get you in a clinically controlled environment for possible treatment with Psilocybin, please offer us feedback for our learning curve with this new ground-breaking research. I am now believing your secondary progressed solar Moon partile conjuncting your SSR Uranus, at the time you came to this forum about your depression problems, probably has much to do with Arena's links about the high success rates they are getting for treating depression with Psilocybin.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1859

[SaintJames]

Okay i apologize for the late reply. Okay questions and answers. Can I get more information on the t-square config and the Saturn-Neptune situation as well? Which aspects affect my communication and how can I find this information on my own? Are there any other websites or books I can read? Yes I can agree with the anti social tendencies. I was abused physically and mentally as a child of 5/6 Until 16 when my step father died. He was also abusive to my mother and I was protecting her if that helps. Also I lost my father in 2013. I’ve been in a multitude of abusive relationships as well. I don’t know my family’s medical history for mental health sorry about that but I don’t believe anyone actually sought help. I do have an uncanning need for attention when sad but I’ve done so much better than the aggressive blow ups as a child and early adult. I hope this gives more insight. I’m willing to answer any questions. Oh and I recently lost another relationship to bad communication so it’s been rough these past few days. Especially today. But part of learning that depression was all over my chart was a trigger. It’s like I’ll never just balance out lol.

[Jim Eshelman]

Most of the information you want is in the Aspects section of the forum. The top three posts describe individual aspects (1) involving Sun & Moon, (2) involving inner planets, i.e., Mercury, Venus, and Mars, and (3) involving only outer planets. You can find aspect interpretations for all the items listed. At this stage, I suggest you only concern yourself with the first paragraph about each aspect.

Can I get more information on the t-square config...

Besides what I already said about the background characteristics, the main thing you need to see is the meaning of your Venus-Neptune opposition and your Mars-Neptune square, and then (much weaker, but important) your Venus-Mars square. To find this, go to the Aspects section of this forum and look at the three posts at the very top. One of these is titled "Natal aspect interpretations - Inner Planets." Click that, and then click on Venus-Neptune, Mars-Neptune, and Venus-Mars in turn.

Here, to get you started, here is a link to the exact thread I described:
http://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=182

And here are the paragraphs on the three aspects:

VENUS-NEPTUNE. Idealistic, future-looking, longs to be enchanted. Wants things perfect. Can become jaded, disillusioned, and cynical from repeated hurtful betrayals. Emotions run strong. Most sees beauty in people and things, thus has blind spots (especially in romance). Trusting, naturally confident of others’ goodness (poor discrimination in selecting friends). Good-hearted, caretakes others, devoted friends, romantic, humanitarian. Natural people-readers (when not personally involved), natural psychologists.

MARS-NEPTUNE. Obsessive, concentrated, with enormous psychic power to fascinate and move minds and reality, in a thriving life of high-drama. Requires rapid conformity of reality to his wants (and usually gets it); surges into temptation; impatient with frustrated gratification, yet often can mobilize great stamina for long-term vision. Imagination and emotion are supercharged; thrives in conditions of stirred passion. Evangelical enthusiasm for interests and convictions. Can compel a nearly religious following, as if by pure will. Aggressions can be dramatic; unresolved anger patterns trigger in response to frustrations. High IQ; can be manipulative. Sexually magnetic yet wrestles with sexual demons and doubts. (This aspect is most comprehensively expressed by high dopamine levels and dopamine-driven behavior.)

VENU-MARS. Passion (in all senses), feels powerfully about things. Strong sexual passions mature early, continue late, rarely encumbered by too many conditions. Broadly fun-loving, socially active, loves romance: interesting, likable, sociable, horny people. Relationships, often picked for ferocity, easily hit conflict, strain, or burnout. (More likely homicidal than suicidal.)

and the Saturn-Neptune situation as well?

I gave you a summary of this aspect above, didn't I? (I thought I either gave you a link or quoted the content,) Do you have any other specific questions about it?

Which aspects affect my communication and how can I find this information on my own?

These are aspects to your Mercury. The most important is Mercury-Jupiter; next, Mercury-Uranus; next, Mercury-Saturn. To find these on your own, go to the Inner Planets aspects section link above, and click on those three aspects.

You might also want to read about Mercury in Leo for this specific question. You can find that here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=86#p507

Yes I can agree with the anti social tendencies. I was abused physically and mentally as a child of 5/6 Until 16 when my step father died. He was also abusive to my mother and I was protecting her if that helps. Also I lost my father in 2013. I’ve been in a multitude of abusive relationships as well. I don’t know my family’s medical history for mental health sorry about that but I don’t believe anyone actually sought help. I do have an uncanning need for attention when sad but I’ve done so much better than the aggressive blow ups as a child and early adult. I hope this gives more insight. I’m willing to answer any questions. Oh and I recently lost another relationship to bad communication so it’s been rough these past few days. Especially today. But part of learning that depression was all over my chart was a trigger. It’s like I’ll never just balance out lol.

I'll come back to look at this more when I have time (have to get some other work done now), and others may comment on this, of course. This all makes sense in terms of your chart, though, of course, it's not the only way things could have come out. More as we continue the conversation.

[Jim Eshelman]

I was abused physically and mentally as a child of 5/6 Until 16 when my step father died. He was also abusive to my mother and I was protecting her if that helps. Also I lost my father in 2013. I’ve been in a multitude of abusive relationships as well. I don’t know my family’s medical history for mental health sorry about that but I don’t believe anyone actually sought help. I do have an uncanning need for attention when sad but I’ve done so much better than the aggressive blow ups as a child and early adult. I hope this gives more insight. I’m willing to answer any questions. Oh and I recently lost another relationship to bad communication so it’s been rough these past few days. Especially today. But part of learning that depression was all over my chart was a trigger. It’s like I’ll never just balance out lol.

I guess I don't have a lot to add, other than my sympathy. You've been through a lot, and that early trauma/abuse has an impact from which you need to heal. It's a tough road, so it needs you to be tough.

The fact that you are a double Cancer means that you are even more sensitive to parental impact than most people. It is your innate nature to trust them and be close to them and that was betrayed. Much of what was discussed above makes sense from this - being distrustful of authority, withdrawn and private, needing attention/approval (and not even necessarily positive attention). I suspect you are aware of these patterns already, from the therapy you've had, and don't need me to give my amateur explanation

It still seems to me to come down to anger issues, impulse-control issues, suppressed and distorted Will trying to find its way out of the woods, etc.

On relationships: Yes, this early trauma probably has to go through some extensive healing before it will be easy to see people and trust your perceptions and emotional reactions. Read the Venus-Neptune section I posted above - it is hard to get emotional reality on another person in an intimate connection because of all the needs and filters and fantasies you bring to it.

[SaintJames]

Thank you Jim. I appreciate all of this.

[Jim Eshelman]

I finally got a copy of your chart posted. Please see above, near the top of the thread.