Pluto in Sidereal Scorpio

[Soft Alpaca]

I always related to Pluto, and now that I can tell the difference between Pluto and Scorpio I can say too that I relate to Scorpio (which I think about everything and u feel everything out sometimes even before I think about it so everything I experience internally has already been through Scorpio lense because if angular Mercury and because of Venus). However I don't know what Pluto does in Scorpio, and it wouldn't much matter if thus planet wasn't so personal. I did find this


"Pluto through sidereal Libra (1981-92): No major terrorist events noted.

26 Feb 1993: First transit of Pluto into sidereal Scorpio; World Trade Center bombing, at the time noted to be " the worst terrorist attack in the U.S. " Pluto 1Sco50

1994: Rowanda's " killing fields " ; 100,000 people killed; Pluto 4 Scorpio

1994: Govt backed Arab militia in Sudan accused of ethnic cleansing; estimated 70,000 civilians killed

1994: Chechen militants take 1000 schoolchildren hostage; all ended in chaos with bloodshed and explosives and 300 people dead (Pluto remains in sidereal Scorpio all through 1994.)

12 April 1995: Oklahoma City Bombing, " worst bomb outrage the nation has ever known " Pluto 6 Scorpio

10 Feb 1996: IRA Blast in London; Pluto 9 Scorpio

18 July 1996: Flight 800 explodes after takeoff; All on board killed;

1998: President Clinton sex scandal

11 September 2001: WTC, the now infamous collapse of the twin towers in New York. The ultimate terrorist attack except for those who believe it was engineered for political reasons. Pluto at 19 Scorpio

2002: Sex scandals in the Catholic Church

March, 2003: U.S. invades Iraq

11 March 2004: Bombs blast commuter trains in Madrid; Pluto 28 Scorpio

7 July 2005: Bombs detonated in crowded London subways during rush hour; largest attack on Great Britain since WW II. Pluto at 28.5 "

There has been more sense then and these could all just be coincidence. However I am curious to know what Pluto in Scorpio denotes traits to, i rember learming about all of these events recently in school, curious if these can actually tell us anything...

[Jim Eshelman]

It was certainly much easier for The Powers That Be to force aggressive militarism while Pluto stayed in Scorpio. It first left Scorpio for Sagittarius in the last days of December 2005, and I circulated a prediction that the whole framework of how the world looked would be changed by New Years. In fact, January 2006 marked the first huge cracks in the W. machine.

[Soft Alpaca]

Interesting Jim. I can understand why some may see it seems at home here, it very well may just be a good place for Pluto or an esoteric relationship (like the Moon esotericaly rules Virgo) that caused Confusion of Plutos role being intertwined with Scorpio.

[Jim Eshelman]

"Esoteric relationship"? How much more pure nonsense are you going to try to pass off as astrology?

[Soft Alpaca]

Look at Isis Jim. Associated with Virgo and the Moon. This is just one associated between the Moon and Virgo I have seen.

[Jim Eshelman]

Please, stop trying to use mythology to draw astrological conclusions. It will keep leading you down paths of misdirection and delusion.

[Jim Eshelman]

To the extent Pluto in Scorpio has an affect (which we expect in mundane astrology but not in natal astrology), it roughly resembles a Mars-Pluto conjunction. In mundane astrology, Mars-Pluto signifies violent, ferocious, often explosive unleashing of force (such as bombs, explosions, accidents, warlike aggression, mass shooting, earthquakes, hurricanes, floods, and fires that release explosive force). It is broadly disrespectful of law and shows consequences of cumulative stresses.

To ascribe significance to it in a natal horoscope, you are crediting a factor that 100% of all people born within a 12-year period (approximately, going from memory) would have in common. This isn't useful astrologically. It doesn't distinguish you from those in your same pool.

But it's exactly the characteristic that makes it interesting in mundane astrology.

[Soft Alpaca]

That makes sense. Thanks Jim.

[By Jove]

My two cents. When Pluto entered Sagittarius, domestic terrorism went way up. This contrasts Pluto in Scorpio when the biggest issues were overseas terrorism. 9/11 began bin Ladin's war tactic of bankrupting the U.S. by dragging it into proxy wars. Bascically, Pluto in Scorpio is about war tactics and revenge, while Pluto in Sag is about ideologies and reactionary sects.

With Pluto in Sag, we have seen a resurgence of white nationalist and right wing ideologies, all built around dogmatic ideas of race, culture, tribe etc. These chauvinists clamor for the defense of "civilization" and "the West", and see everything outside their little sphere as an existential threat. The irony is they deeply hate "the West" for all its Enlightenment and liberal values, the very things "foreigners" like about it. They love a reactionary fantasy of a "Nordic warrior race", which is ironic, considering how Vikings in the past were fairly progressive for their day and the current "Nordic" countries are also very progressive.

On the other hand, left wing politics is very sectarian. Among leftists there is a huge rise of "identity politics", where your identity as an oppressed group (like being black or female or trans) matters more than anything else. And if you are not politically correct all the time, you are racist/sexist/transphobic etc. Both right wing and left wing groups riddle their speech with stupid jargon. Even leftist groups these days are very reactionary in a sense.

[SteveS]

By Jove wrote:

And if you are not politically correct all the time, you are racist/sexist/transphobic etc. Both right wing and left wing groups riddle their speech with stupid jargon. Even leftist groups these days are very reactionary in a sense.

It has gotten so extreme with polarization between the two political parties, it may lead to some type of Civil War, possibly symbolized with DC,s 2021 Capsolar below link, Master Chart of the Year.
https://imgur.com/a/aJV1Yxq
Note: Mars partile cnj MC, partile 90 Saturn (not good)! t. Saturn partile cnj Capsolar’s Dsc for app 3 months beginning in April 2021, forming a transiting paran of Saturn to Capsolar Mars. If memory is serving me correctly, this angular Mars-Saturn combo is the first time in US History this has occurred with a Capsolar. Also Pluto partile cnj Capsolar Sun for the first time in US History, which could symbolize an extreme type weather problem with harmful energy. Time will tell.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Just because the thread on Saturn ( http://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=401 ) is amazing....

I don't know when Pluto entered Virgo, but it was there in 1976 through August of 1982.
Libra Augus of 1982
Scorpio January of 1993
Sagittarius January of 2006
Capricorn January of 2021, but will dither around a bit through the 1st of December of that year.

[Jim Eshelman]

Just to add to the Pluto in Sagittarius discussion here are some other notes that might interest By Jove.

Historically, substantial investment in education, and very substantial advances in energy production (but primarily for far-reaching travel and exploration, imperialism and exploitation, and the support of commerce through greater energy production). Science supporting more industrial power and laying the foundation for broader and faster travel centered around steam. Numerous other innovations in energy production.

I expected to find historic times when imperialism, unbalanced elitism, and chauvinistic government took a smack-down. Instead, Pluto seems to have worked as a dramatic intensification of Sagittarian themes. While it did lay foundation for later rebellion, it was a time when governmental imperialism, class elitism, and abusive taxation.

(1510-1525) Revolutionary developments in the areas of religion and philosophy. It was the time of Luther, Erasmus, Spinoza, and More. The de Medici's owned the papacy, and Machiavelli was a rising star. Martin Luther's posting of 95 proclamations in 1517 started the Protestant Reformation in Germany (and he was excommunicated as a heretic in 1520). Ignatius Loyola began to formulate his Exercitiae in 1521. The Bible began to appear in more languages, making it more accessible to the people, including the polyglot Bible published at Alcala in 1522. - Henry VIII dominates the entire period.

I expected that Pluto in Sagittarius, in particular, would see the overthrow of many cultural institutions, in particular church and some of the more obscure parts of academia, plus particularly a mass-mind revolt against elitism overall. - Indeed, participation in organized religion is at an all-time low in this country, with increased disidentification with it. We also have an up-and-coming generations of young adults who has little regard for authority, institutionalism, or even expertise - one effect, for example, has been using the Internet for "crowd sourcing" opinions about restaurants, wine, movies, music, and more, rather than listening to reviewers, instructions, and other established expertise. This is all pretty Pluto in Sagittarius. (And the whole "99%" movement is absolutely anti-elite.) - Besides this domestic revolution, there is accelerated international radicalism, specifically a growing Islamist threat with a desire to overthrow other culture's cultural and religious institutions combined with out-and-out belifism. Divisions in our own Congress, similarly, have become increasingly belief-driven in their rigidity, each side perceiving itself as the radicals and saviors.