My Leo Sun In The Fall of Neptune

[Venus_Daily]

I've been rereading through the Solunar's handbook the past few days, and I came across the exaltation of Neptune, which is described as being 18 or 19 degrees in Aquarius. Fagan describes Neptune as the make-believe planet, but it can also be described as the area in the natal chart of fanaticism and belief in religious or demonic figures, or more colloquially known as boogiemen.
My Leo sun is located 18'16 into Leo, which is very close if not exactly on the fall of Neptune opposite Aquarius. Obviously, anything having to do with the opposite of Neptune would be very skeptical and low on belief. I've noticed that I'm not an atheist, but I do have a problem believing in certain things, I hate delusions and magical thinking.
Now, what I've observed from someone who is a double Aquarius and has their moon at about 17 degrees Aquarius is that he actually believes that cartoon characters talk to him, in almost a religious sense like Joan of Arc, and he also believes that he's in a romantic polyamorous relationship with two of them. These are cartoon characters he has himself created. He also believed, in about 2016 while his progressed moon was in Taurus, that subliminal, audio waves were going to turn him into a woman and grow him female reproductive organs, he even started to mutilate his groin in preparation for the growth of outer female reproductive organs, which obviously didn't happen This being a 6-foot tall, 36-year-old man with permanent stubble and an Aquarian moon very close to the exaltation degree of Neptune believed (believes) all these things.

Am I right to attribute my lack of belief, faith, and sometimes imagination with having the Sun so close to the fall of Neptune? Am I correct to assume that the man with the Aquarian moon's insanity is symbolized by having his Moon so close to the exaltation of Neptune in Aquarius?

[Jim Eshelman]

I don't take those outer planet exaltations from 786 BC seriously. There is no reason to think that planets being in those degrees in 786 BC caused the exaltations, though there is much evidence that (for the classic 7 planets) it was a way to record observed exaltations. And (being a very proud Aquarius Moon ) I don't think Aquarius is like Neptune at all - quite the opposite.

On the other hand, one observation you made is quite astute: Leos have Neptune as their Achilles heel. Leos with Neptune strong can be very misled and distorted by it, and generally get into a mess with it. OTOH, I can't swear that other signs aren't, in their own way, messed up by Leo, too.

I can't give you a schematic explanation for this (e.g., in dignities and debilities), but it seems sensible to me based on planetary nature. There are many ways that Neptune and Sun are opposites. One way to see this is to notice how similar Neptune is to Moon - in the ways that Moon is the opposite of Sun. Sun is ego-defining, purposeful, needs centricity, while Neptune dissolves definitions, boundaries, purpose, etc. They don't get along so well.

Since transiting Neptune has been right through that degree much of the last year, you and your friend have both had a great deal of Neptune via transit.

[Venus_Daily]

Thanks, Jim, I don't really consider this person a friend, he has tried to make a pass at me several times, even though he's a turn off to most people with eyes. Sadly, this person has been like this all his life, he's very gullible, it's one scheme and after the other, and people just continue to take advantage. His first choice has always been women, but now he's starting to realize that's off the table, so he's slowly trying to work himself up to be attracted to men.

[Jim Eshelman]

That's very practical LOL.

If you want to provide his birth data, we can take a look. He actually sounds schizophrenic.

[Venus_Daily]

2/24/1982
5:30 AM
Ruckersville, VA

[Jim Eshelman]

2/24/1982
5:30 AM
Ruckersville, VA

Looking first at his chart as that of a psychologically healthy person...

No, this isn't a Neptunian chart. In fact, while Neptune is in the immediate background and aspected to nothing at all except the ubiquitous sextile to Pluto, it is Uranus that dominates his chart. Both luminaries (as you said) are in Aquarius, and Sun squares Uranus partile (0°57').

So, he doesn't follow the rules of behavior or reality that everyone else feels beholden to. Folks with Sun square Uranus go their own way, unapologetically following their own paths & persuaded that they’re a “special case.” Resourceful, stimulating, but easily bored, they love freedom and bow to no authority but themselves. However, their self-perspective usually is founded in objectivity, and it sounds like his isn't... we'll get back to that.

He also has Mercury rising closely, and it squares Jupiter. Mercury-Jupiter aspects are noted for a superstitious or religious bias to their thinking. Mercury rising gives various traits that seem consistent with what you are describing.

But back to that Neptune-Pluto sextile. It doesn't seem all that important, right? Almost everybody you know has one. It's kinda ordinary. Except... is Neptune-Pluto sextile has an orb of 0°00'07". It's exact to the minute, almost to the second!

We don't have a lot of cases from which to render an evidence-based assessment of this aspect. We can guess what it means and how important it might be. I find it interesting because I once had a Neptune-Pluto sextile exact to the minute in my Solar Return. During the few weeks it progressed to exact to the second, I had something close to schizophrenia in a benign way. I seemed to be living in multiple concurrent realities, seeing consequences of minor shifts in my actions swirling past and around me concurrent with the reality I was factually occupying. I knew the difference - there was no mistaking one for the other - but the alternates were so vivid that they swarmed my senses as much as my "main" reality.

I wonder if he has, perhaps, lived his entire life this way?

Now, even at 0°00'07" close, one Neptune-Pluto conjunction isn't going to do that. It will take much more in the chart. His double Aquarian luminaries give him n "outsider" point of view. His Moon is half a degree from sesqui-square Pluto, which at least connects to the Neptune-Pluto and, on its own, adds a further "outsider" character.

There is much more to say about the chart conventionally. Moon closely trine Jupiter reinforces the "religious" thinking. Venus also squares Pluto 0°00' (TWO major Pluto aspects exact to the minute), which explains his social ostracism and related characteristics, and (in combination with his Aquarian luminaries) his sexual plasticity (or, let's say, conceivable flexibility). Mars-Saturn conjunction is a whole study on its own (please read the standard interpretation on this), including that he likely feels oppressed and lives his life in a way to maximize opportunities for struggle.

If we consider houses, his first house luminaries show most of his psychic energy is concentrated on himself. His 8th house Mars, Saturn, and Pluto would show enormous psychological conflicts uprooted and exposed by the way he conducts himself. Etc.

He think he's schizotypal - a technically healthy, though socially dysfunctional, expression of traits that, were he to go over the edge, would be specifically schizophrenic. But a lot of his traits are easily enough describable by more conventional interpretations. He's definitely a psychic and social outlier and probably grievously unhappy. Neptune's transits for many years have been playing with his luminaries, but it's now gone past. Pluto squares his Saturn by transit - look that up if you want.

[SteveS]

Venus, in Ebertin’s/Robert Hand's midpoints astrology, any direct midpoint less than 1,30 orb involving the MC or ASC are to be taken very seriously for shaping the destiny/ character/personality of a native. Your double Aquarius acquaintance has only 3 direct midpoints involving the MC and/or ASC, and all 3 of these direct midpoints involve Neptune. Here they are:

***MO/NEP=ASC 0,31
SAT/NEP= MC 1,13
NEP/PL=MC 1,17

IMO, the MO/NEP=ASC dominates his chart by the descriptions of his mannerism you posted. When we put this MO/NEP=ASC together with his all-important Sidereal Astrology partile 90 of Sun-Uranus, we begin to see the delusional (Neptune) eccentricity (Uranus) of his personality connected to his natal lights you described in your post.

[Venus_Daily]

I wonder if he has, perhaps, lived his entire life this way?

Yes, his parents were older when they conceived him, so they basically treated him like a grandchild. Basically, they spoiled him rotten, his mother is super reactive, and I hypothesize (I'm not a doctor) that she's a strong cluster B personality. Basically, they have no boundaries and were still spooning up until a year ago. He is moderately on the autistic spectrum, though he can still drive, and speak somewhat intelligible. Your assessment of his Moon/Jupiter sounds pretty astute, especially with Jupiter positioned in Libra and the Moon in Aquarius, he treats feminity and womanhood like a cult or secret society that he wants to be part of despite having a phenotype and personality that I previously described. He was very obsessed with women and girls as a child, not an effeminate way, just constantly wanting to be in their presence. He even clings to old female friends that were paid to be polite to him by his own father, who have not seen or spoken to him in over a decade. He definitely has that Ed Gein/Buffalo Bill vibe, which makes it hard to be his friend.

Venus, in Ebertin’s/Robert Hand's midpoints astrology, any direct midpoint less than 1,30 orb involving the MC or ASC are to be taken very seriously for shaping the destiny/ character/personality of a native. Your double Aquarius acquaintance has only 3 direct midpoints involving the MC and/or ASC, and all 3 of these direct midpoints involve Neptune. Here they are:

***MO/NEP=ASC 0,31
SAT/NEP= MC 1,13
NEP/PL=MC 1,17

IMO, the MO/NEP=ASC dominates his chart by the descriptions of his mannerism you posted. When we put this MO/NEP=ASC together with his all-important Sidereal Astrology partile 90 of Sun-Uranus, we begin to see the delusional (Neptune) eccentricity (Uranus) of his personality connected to his natal lights you described in your post.

Thanks, Steve, I definitely believe that his problems were made worse by his older parents, like I said before, they were geriatric when he was concieved, but the Moon/Nep=Asc, is also very symbolic of that relationship he has with his mother.

[SteveS]

Venus wrote:

He definitely has that Ed Gein/Buffalo Bill vibe, which makes it hard to be his friend.

I understand. He has a tight Mars-Saturn cnj in the 8th House with Pluto. I definitely would not want to be on the wrong end of a malefic Mars-Saturn situation with him.

[Venus_Daily]

I agree Steve, he's been arrested several times, and hit someone with his vehicle. He's very entitled and narcissistic despite having nothing to justify it.