Outstanding Incident 1968 SSR in my life.

[SteveS]

We have lately been discussing relocating our SSR’s for certain possible purposes. As I have written many times on this forum, I am a staunch believer we can relocate the beginning dates of our SLR’s and SSR’s on our birthdays to ‘choose’ good times with tight-partile angular benefit planets cnj/foreground the return angles.

The question arose in our discussions: Can we relocate a SSR on our birthdays to deflect (lessen) a tight conjunction of angular malefic planet(s) at our home residence when we return from relocating the ‘set-up’ of our relocated SSR’s on our Birthdays? This is probably an impossible question to prove-out, we are only left with our personal speculations with experiment.

Below (1) is my 1968 SSR. Personally, I feel there would have been little % I could have changed or lessen the psychological effects of this SSR which penetrated my psyche during my 1968 solar year—no matter where I would have relocated this SSR in the entire World.

This SSR is an ‘outstanding incident’ SSR defined by Jim’s guidelines in his book, ‘Interpreting Solar Returns’. This SSR is an event symbolized by the planetary action with my SSR East-Point—West-Point axis. Note the partile conjunctions of Mercury-Venus-Saturn with this EP/WP axis. I received a phone call that my father had beat-up my mother, severely cutting-bruising her face. This was the first moment in my life I realized there were serious problems with my parents, they later divorced, and the divorce was bloody—legally. This SSR began the time in my life where my father became a tremendous burden in my life to the extent I had to years later--completely cull him out of my life because of his alcoholism which he hid from my life up to this SSR event.

Jim teaches us that when a Natal Planet falls near our angles it will help indicate how we will react to the prominent planetary influences in our SSR. How did I react to this very depressing event in my life? Note my Natal Mars (link 2 below) is 4,30 cnj SSR IC and partile 90 SSR Mercury & Saturn (‘locked-in’ for the whole solar year). When I got to my parent’s house and saw my mother’s battered face, I grabbed my father by the nape of his shirt and said I was going to do to him what he had just done to my mother. He fell down sobbing. I reframed from beating the crap out of him, but ordered him out of the house—to never come back without my mother’s permission. It was a very malefic scene as the SSR foretells.

There is no way I can be convinced I could have ‘lessen’ the event effects that occurred to me with relocating this SSR on my Birthday for a different angular set-up, certainly not change the event that I incurred with this SSR. I had absolutely no control over what happened which produced this event. I knew absolutely nothing about astrology at this time in my life. But, if I had been a well- seasoned Sidereal Astrologer at this time in my life, I think I could have lessens the psychological effect on psyche by just knowing and preparing for the foretold depressing psychological effects of SSR Saturn on SSR Asc, along with other SSR aspects with SSR Saturn.

1: 1968 SSR: https://imgur.com/a/yf2ge1d

2: https://imgur.com/a/EMWH0l2 Inside wheel 1968 SSR, Outside wheel Natal).

[Jim Eshelman]

Whew! Powerful event, Steve, thanks for sharing it. As I looked at the charts before reading what the event was, I saw the severity of Mercury-Saturn to your Mars, but also the strong Venus involvement - Venus is a little closer to Descendant than Mercury, and within minutes of being as close to WP - so figured it was going to be an emotionally hurtful event not just (say) an accident.

There is also the close Moon-Mars conjunction (2°14' ecliptically, only 0°19' in mundo), and Moon-Neptune square, which fit the event in several ways. Pluto is also foreground, though not closely (but it does have close mundane aspects to Mercury and Venus), so there is plenty of "severing connections" symbolism, too.

Oh, and I almost missed it: For one more layer of the parental theme, that terribly important Moon-Mars conjunction square Neptune is exactly on your natal MC. (Solar Mars to natal Midheaven is less than 2°.)

A full breakdown:

Mercury on WP 0°51'
Venus on WP 1°09'
Saturn on EP 1°41', on Asc 2°26'
r Mars on IC 7°43'
Pluto on Dsc 8°49'
-- t Saturn sq. r Mars 0°09'
-- Mercury-Venus conj. 0°17' (in RA)
-- Mercury-Saturn op. 0°34'
-- t Mercury sq. r Mars 0°43'
-- Mercury-Pluto conj. 1°32 in mundo
-- Venus-Saturn op. 2°09'
-- t Venus sq. r Mars 2°18'
-- Venus-Pluto conj. 3°20' in mundo
Moon-Mars conj. 2°14'
Moon-Neptune sq. 2°22'
-- Mo = Ma/Ne 0°04'

Also:
t Neptune sq. r Jupiter 0°18' [on natal Asc]
t Mars conj. r MC 1°48'


This is readable and understandable enough, but to emphasize the "partile orbs, close angularity" side more, we could trim it to the following (though I do think the slightly wider Venus aspects had strong input also).

Mercury on WP 0°51'
Venus on WP 1°09'
Saturn on EP 1°41'
r Mars & t Pluto more widely foreground
-- t Saturn sq. r Mars 0°09'
-- Mercury-Venus conj. 0°17' (in RA)
-- Mercury-Saturn op. 0°34'
-- t Mercury sq. r Mars 0°43'
Moon-Mars conj. 2°14'
Moon-Neptune sq. 2°22'

An excellent example!

[Arena]

OMG Steve, this is horrific. I am so sorry you had to live through that. I see there is double Mars symbolism... the SSR Mars Moon Conjunction is on your n. MC.

There is no way I can be convinced I could have ‘lessen’ the event effects that occurred to me with relocating this SSR on my Birthday for a different angular set-up, certainly not change the event that I incurred with this SSR.

No, there is nothing that would have changed the fact that this actually happened to your mother, but I wonder if you had another setup for your SSR if it would possibly not have come into your knowledge/psyche, hence not happened to you. As you said yourself, this had been hidden from you for a long time and this had actually happened before without you knowing about it, right?

[Jim Eshelman]

BTW, this chart gives us a chance to check something of interest to me. Based on thousands of instances in mundane charts, it's clear that transits to ingress angles and quotidian angles are best taken ecliptically. (Take angularity mundanely in the original chart itself, but ecliptically for later contacts such as transits.) I presume this works the same for natal charts - no reason to think it would behave differently - but it's enormously easier to test in mundane charts.

This is different than I thought for several decades. Previously, once it became clear that angularity in a static chart (e.g., a birth chart) was to be taken mundanely, we tended to assume that all angularity should be taken mundanely. However, due to precession's effect, we didn't have tools to easily check. Today, though, we have those tools.

This sample SSR has a terribly (and terrible) aspect combination close to your natal angles. Probably both ecliptical and mundane positions are close enough to make this combination have the effect of being highlighted by your natal angles. However, I'd like to actually compare them - partly to see if we learn anything from this example, partly to highlight the issue.

Ecliptically, we have:

27°55' Lib r Asc
29°42' Lib r Jupiter
0°01' Sco s Neptune (conj. Asc 2°06', conj. r Jupiter 0°19')
2°23' Leo s Moon (conj. r MC 4°02')
4°37' Leo s Mars (conj. r MC 1°48')

Precessing the SSR backwards to your birth moment and fitting SSR planets into the natal mundoscope gives the following alternative way of looking at these:

27°22' s Moon (2°38' past MC)
28°40' s Mars (1°20' past MC, 0°18' conj. Moon)
0°00' ------------------------ natal angles ---------------------
1°25' s Neptune (1°25' before Asc, conj. r Jupiter 0°05')
1°30' r Jupiter (before Asc)

This also makes the Mars-Neptune square only 2°45'.

I think both sets of angularities are close enough to "count" - ecliptically, at the very least transiting Mars is within 2° of MC, though Moon is a bit further. But taken mundanely, everything is closer and sharper. I'm not sure we should jump to a conclusion based on this example since there isn't that much difference, and since the weight of other evidence suggests transits should be taken ecliptically. However, it's pretty hard to ignore this example of Mars conjunct Moon square Neptune exactly on your natal MC - insanity of rage directed at your father with strong maternal themes. I also expect (partile either way) that Neptune's transit to your Jupiter had an important role in this (and in the turn it made in your life), though I don't have enough information to know that's what it is.

Anyway, I thought I'd raise this question and demonstrate this way of looking at things.

HERE'S THE IMPORTANT PRACTICAL CONSIDERATION FOR THIS PARTICULAR CHART: Even if you had taken a birthday trip to, say, Las Vegas to put Jupiter on Descendant in the SSR and get Saturn & Friends away from the angles, the Moon-Mars-Neptune would still have been on your NATIVITY angles, which you never lose. Mercury-Saturn angular exactly square your Mars is bad enough, but those Moon aspects would be there, and be important, and be on your NATIVITY angles no matter what.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

…so figured it was going to be an emotionally hurtful event…

Yes, big time! Rates in the top 3 emotionally hurtful in my entire life.
Jim wrote:

There is also the close Moon-Mars conjunction (2°14' ecliptically, only 0°19' in mundo), and Moon-Neptune square, which fit the event in several ways.

Yes, these were noted when I discovered this malefic SSR, but had limited time when I posted so failed to mention. Moon-Mars manifested big time, was angered for weeks.
Jim wrote:

Pluto is also foreground, though not closely (but it does have close mundane aspects to Mercury and Venus), so there is plenty of "severing connections" symbolism, too.

Excellent observation Jim. I was stunned-shocked with this event.
Jim wrote:

Oh, and I almost missed it: For one more layer of the parental theme, that terribly important Moon-Mars conjunction square Neptune is exactly on your natal MC. (Solar Mars to natal Midheaven is less than 2°.)

Yes, I also noted when first discovered this SSR. Confused with much anger over this life event.
Jim wrote:

An excellent example!

By far, the best Sidereal Astrology chart I have in my life files for showing the importance of East-West-Point axis with planetary pictures-- which you taught me was a very important axis angle. In my book, they are as expressly potent just as much as ASC-MC axis.
Arena wrote:

…but I wonder if you had another setup for your SSR if it would possibly not have come into your knowledge/psyche, hence not happened to you.

I have often though about this a-lot, but impossible to know for sure. But as I stated, relative to my life at the time, I strongly believe this event would have happened no matter if I relocated my SSR on birthday removing the home malefic East-West point malefic symbolism.
Arena wrote and asked:

As you said yourself, this had been hidden from you for a long time and this had actually happened before without you knowing about it, right?

Yes, my parents completely hid their deep seated problems in their marriage for years without my sister and I realizing their marriage had fallen apart years before it became known to me with this SSR. When my sister and I discovered the truth of the matter we did our best to get them to divorce—but this is another story with too many details to cover. As far as if this physical abuse had happened before? Probably, but mother never would discuss the actual goings-on which was covered up.
Jim wrote:

Even if you had taken a birthday trip to, say, Las Vegas to put Jupiter on Descendant in the SSR and get Saturn & Friends away from the angles, the Moon-Mars-Neptune would still have been on your NATIVITY angles, which you never lose. Mercury-Saturn angular exactly square your Mars is bad enough, but those Moon aspects would be there, and be important, and be on your NATIVITY angles no matter what.

I understand Jim, and along shows par excellent symbolism for the event. But that SSR was a dozy with its planetary picture with EP-WP AXIS. Excellent alternative points you make Jim, always learning from you.