"Outstanding" SLR or not?

[Arena]

I have a Lunar return today and if birth time is 23.40 the ecliptic aspects show an "outstanding" SLR with SLR Uranus partile conjunct SLR MC and SLR Venus 1,5° from ASC as well as SLR Jup about 3° from IC. SLR Neptune is almost exact square rel. ASC.

IF birth time is slightly off this SLR is not going to be outstanding at all, at least not with a partile aspect to angles.

Let's see how this one goes down.

[Arena]

Well, this one has come to an end, with a new one starting today.
It was not outstanding, I believe the time is a bit off and there were actually no partile aspects nor Venus and Uranus that close to AC and MC.

Well, I do not think that Lunar returns are really that important at all - but if they are it seems my birth time is indeed a bit off because this one was not really outstanding.

The next SLR shows me that with 23.40 birth time my natal Sun would partile square the SLR AC, but with 23.20 birth time the SLR MC would be conjunct natal Mars which is also conjoined by the SLR Nnode.

Ebertin about Dragon's head conjunct MC:

The establishment of an association for the attainment of joint objectives. Unions based on a mutual inner understanding.

And when that conjoins Mars he says:

Comradeship and team-spirit, an intense working together with one's colleagues, an association or organisation fighting to uphold the common ideas and principles. Inner attachment and physical attraction.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Arena, do you keep a log of aspects and when (by your birth certificate) you'd expect them to show some influence, and exactly when you saw evidence of the influence?

[Arena]

Arena, do you keep a log of aspects and when (by your birth certificate) you'd expect them to show some influence, and exactly when you saw evidence of the influence?

Ah, sorry I missed your post. I probably do not keep as accurate a record as I should... but am keeping records of when I notice Mars effects. I guess I must start keeping more comprehensive records, but I am just kinda very very busy these days/weeks/months.

[Arena]

The next SLR shows me that with 23.40 birth time my natal Sun would partile square the SLR AC, but with 23.20 birth time the SLR MC would be conjunct natal Mars which is also conjoined by the SLR Nnode.

Ebertin about Dragon's head conjunct MC:
The establishment of an association for the attainment of joint objectives. Unions based on a mutual inner understanding.

And when that conjoins Mars he says:
Comradeship and team-spirit, an intense working together with one's colleagues, an association or organisation fighting to uphold the common ideas and principles. Inner attachment and physical attraction.

So, now this October LR is over.
That month was extremely busy. I took a business trip with my business partner to Spain to look at potential investments or rentals to startup a little serviced apartment section there. Lots and lots of driving involved. Whilst we were over there we were also communicating back to Scotland about a possible land purchase and a building project. Plus we were negotiating a rental deal that was then made ready for us to sign on Nov 6th (new LR though for the signing). And also, while I was in Spain my life-partner's grandfather died. My partner was already in Iceland with the kids, so after my Spain trip, I booked a flight to Iceland and attended the funeral and met some friends.
Extremely busy month indeed!

[Arena]

Ok, so here is another one that has just started.
IF birth time is right as 23.40, this SLR shows SLR Pluto partile SLR IC, which falls partile to n. MC. This same SLR shows SLR Uranus partile the SLR Vx and SLR ASC partile n. Uranus while SLR Saturn is right around the n. DSC. Looks very separative.

The only thing I would suspect or I can foresee or am coming to a decision about is to end the business relationship that I have with my business partner. I don't need a partnership and I think it is much better to not have to rely on other people or to not have to deal with when they get themselves caught up and worked up in their own creation of whirlwind of unnecessary and unuseful emotions Observing that can be a bit funny at times, but it isn't useful in business.
I have simply seen enough of him being too young and not really willing to grow up and look himself in the mirror about certain things that are detrimental to his progress. I like him in many ways and I see potential in him, but he is just not ready to be my partner at this point in time I need people in business to be able to not be emotional about things, to keep their emotions aside and in check. He is not able to. I guess I may be becoming more and more Plutonic with time/age.

However, with the partile Pluto and then the Saturn conj. n. DSC, I wouldn't be surprised to have news about another death in the family.

[SteveS]

Hi Arena,
Clearly the most potent aspect for your June 11 SLR (Edinburgh) is a very potent mundane paran square of SLR t. Pluto 7:29:32 ST anti-culminating at 7:25:42 ST to your Natal Uranus rising on your SLR Asc at 7:27:44, a very potent paran, should produce an outstanding Uranus-Pluto incident relative to your immediate environment. Keep us informed. A SLR transiting Pluto to Natal Uranus Paran

SLR Pluto anti-culminates at 7:29:32 ST
Natal Uranus rising at 7:27:44 ST (Edinburgh)
SLR Asc rising at 7:25:42 ST

All less than 1 degree orb (partile).

[Arena]

Just noted another partile conjunction as I casted the chart to my birth place. SLR Saturn is partile SLR IC to birth place. Natal Pluto is not far from SLR ASC to birth place and I also notice that SLR Venus is partile natal Snode while SLR Mars is partile SLR Nnode. I guess that this SLR will bring about things that I can not predict, but it seems like it could involve my close family if we see IC as being about family. Also, the SLR Pluto is approaching a partile trine to the Moon.

[Jim Eshelman]

I agree with Steve, transiting Pluto to natal Uranus exactly angular is the thrust of the chart.

I have no reason to think that SSR planets angular in the SLR have any meaning or import, so I wouldn't emphasize that. The Pluto-to-Uranus is simpler.

r Uranus is 0°49' before Asc
t Pluto is 1°05' before IC
-- t Pluto sq. r Asc 0°16' in mundo
t Venus is 9°10' before MC

Natal Uranus has been adjusted for precession and inserted in to the SLR's mundoscope. The aspect is quite exact. It does look separative, but not in a Saturn sense - just dramatic change, rebellion against existing forms, etc. Natal Uranus is slightly closer, so the need for change and to be free of something and freshly born likely originates from you; but the universe is quite willing to meet you in rearranging the pieces. The fact that Venus is also foreground (barely) slightly tips the outcome slightly toward the positive (in the sense of you feeling good about things). - The Venus is squared by Uranus, but Uranus is middleground.

No partile aspects of SLR planets to natal planets other than the mundane square of Pluto to your Uranus.

[Arena]

I have no reason to think that SSR planets angular in the SLR have any meaning or import, so I wouldn't emphasize that.

...just realised that I wrote SSR instead of SLR in some places ... when I was in all those cases talking about SLR planets and angles. Sorry about that confusion. I have now edited and changed the posts accordingly.

[Jim Eshelman]

And I missed that you said the Saturn was around the natal Descendant. I kept looking for a Saturn somewhere around SLR Dsc and kept not finding it

It does look like you've primarily moved past Saturn to your Descendant - especially if (as I think is true) these only work ecliptically. IIRC it's still partile mundanely (precessed back to your birthdate and inserted into your natal mundoscope), but in the normal transit cycle - if this birth time is correct - it seems to have cleared.

[Arena]

It does look like you've primarily moved past Saturn to your Descendant - especially if (as I think is true) these only work ecliptically.

Maybe there is something distorting my mind today, not sure ... but how did you come to this conclusion? When I look at the transits to my natal chart they show me that Saturn is in retro motion coming into partile conjunction with my natal DSC tomorrow, will be exact conjunction later this month and then move direct and come back to hit it in November?

[Jim Eshelman]

Dang, you're right (you have more reason to be on top of that than me). I forgot it was still going to go back that far, - It's out of partile orb for now, but it will spend a lot of time there later this year.

[Arena]

Do you have any reliable method of measuring these SLRs in terms of timing? F.ex. when you see a partile angularity, how would you guess when it is most likely to manifest the strongest?

[Jim Eshelman]

Do you have any reliable method of measuring these SLRs in terms of timing? F.ex. when you see a partile angularity, how would you guess when it is most likely to manifest the strongest?

Though different theories have been floated, none of them have stood out. The beauty and the weakness of Lunar Returns is that they apply to the entire period of their operation.

A few things about which I have high confidence:
1. "Period of operation" begins about 24 hours before the SLR or Demi-SLR sets up.
2. Most people note most big effects almost at once, so that most specific (eventish) effects are in the first few days, but this isn't definitive.
3. The Demi-SLR is fully functional, which sometimes throws the primary SLR effects in the first two weeks if the two charts seriously disagree.
4. If the SLR and Demi show the same symbolism, it often means that the effects are concentrated in the second half of the month, but may mean that there are recurrent or continuing effects that show up in both halves.

I am revisiting the question of whether transits to SLR angles or fast planets have any value. I've watched it for many short periods in the past and never been impressed that this has any importance at all. I was recently asked to revisit this, so I'm doing so, but with low expectations. There was, however, one outstanding example in an event that Mikestar posted a few days ago: In a lunar return with slow Mars already very close to IC, the big violent event occurred the day Mars inched forward by transit and exactly crossed IC, in the hour that Moon crossed SLR MC and opposed Mars. I mention this because it just happened and is a good example, but it may only be coincidence - I don't see this sort of thing usually align.

Usually other, seemingly unrelated things - such as simple transits to the natal - identify the day.

[SteveS]

Arena wrote:

Do you have any reliable method of measuring these SLRs in terms of timing? F.ex. when you see a partile angularity, how would you guess when it is most likely to manifest the strongest?

I am curious Arena. Since your June 11 SLR is classified as an ‘outstanding incident’ Uranus-Pluto SLR, have you identified this ‘outstanding’ Uranus-Pluto incident?

[Jim Eshelman]

Your June 24 Demi-SLR has entirely different symbolism. This means that it can't help us much (or at all) in timing main events of the SLR, which can occur anytime during its four weeks.

The Demi will have your natal Moon-Mercury-Mars most angular, plus transiting Venus on EP. Natal Neptune squares Ascendant. It could be giving a different angle on the same event, or talking about a new set of conditions.

As I mentioned above, I'm not big on transits to SLRs, but am revisiting them. If there is anything to this, June 23-24 has transiting Mercury cross SLR MC, opposite Pluto. This might be effective anyway in the sense that you are "under" transiting Pluto as a basic definition of the month, and there will be an exact Mercury-Pluto opposition in space that day. It may be that transiting Mercury across this (over the weekend right before us) is a main trigger, in which case I'd really like to know the details.

As transiting Uranus is only 8' from square your local Scotland MC as I type this, there is independent signal of something big breaking about now. It's closing that 08' gap - technically exact Monday or Tuesday if the birth time were taken as precisely accurate but, more generally, close enough to produce a major effect anytime around now. The Mars station next week isn't hitting anything in your chart, so that's not likely the trigger; however, at the same time the whole world has that happen, there is a Sun-Saturn opposition that falls right across your natal horizon (0°04' when the opposition is exact).

[Arena]

Well, I am not sure if I should call this SLR outstanding or not. But there are two things that stand up that have happened in my psyche, but not happened in reality yet.

Nr. 1. I decided to break away from my business partner, but I have only made my decision, I have not made the move yet since I need to get paid a bit of money first. I will most likely just resign myself from the company in the next few weeks. Have not told him yet, but I will write him an explanation.

Nr. 2. On June 15th I sent that link to Rythmia resort in Costa Rica to share it with people I thought would perhaps like to join me. So I made the decision to go to the resort and there is one friend who responded positively right away, so we are meeting next week to plan our trip and decide when. I consider this a rather important decision in my life, even though the booking and going there has not manifested yet.

[SteveS]

Arena wrote:

Well, I am not sure if I should call this SLR outstanding or not. But there are two things that stand up that have happened in my psyche, but not happened in reality yet.

I understand. Question: You posted on June 15 about Rythmia’s web site. Is this when you discovered Rythmia’s services, or did you discover Rythmia before your June 11 SLR? Thanks.

[Jim Eshelman]

Yes, I think making that decision (and then following up with a direct action it) is indeed what the SLR is all about - in addition to any other life changes happening such as your business plans.

But for the resort trip, let's review what's happening in the SLR:

r Uranus is 0°49' before Asc
t Pluto is 1°05' before IC
-- t Pluto sq. r Asc 0°16' in mundo
t Venus is 9°10' before MC

Pluto's transit to your natal Uranus (exact to within minutes), with both about 1° from angles - and a little Venus in the wings.

Now, my offhand analysis of this predictively didn't hit the actual event, but the characteristics seem right to me. Do you agree, or am I misinterpreting?

It does look separative, but not in a Saturn sense - just dramatic change, rebellion against existing forms, etc. ...the need for change and to be free of something and freshly born likely originates from you; but the universe is quite willing to meet you in rearranging the pieces. The fact that Venus is also foreground (barely) slightly tips the outcome slightly toward the positive (in the sense of you feeling good about things). - The Venus is squared by Uranus, but Uranus is middleground.

[Jim Eshelman]

PS - I keep toying with the question of whether houses are important in solar and lunar returns (or at all, for that matter), and want to acknowledge a couple of really obvious things in this particular SLR.

With the two biggest things on your mind being (1) a significant, separative shift in a business relationship and (2) long-distance, international travel (that also will "cover a lot of miles" in other ways), this SLR has:

Moon conjunct 8th cusp (related to shared money & other resources)
Sun conjunct 9th cusp (related to long-distance travel etc.)

Of course, the main issues - the nature of separation and shift from Uranus-Pluto, the pleasure excursion with a friend of Venus-Uranus - are all there in more conventional ways. But the 8th house and 9th house themes were kinda staring me in the face as I read your post and looked at the chart.

[Arena]

Sorry guys, I just noticed these posts now. Just to let you know that I was not ignoring you, I've just not been coming to the forum as much as I used to.

Just wanted to share with you that the first week in October 2018 (Lunar return on Sept 28th in Edinburgh) was one of the most profound experiences I've ever had in my entire life. So it did not only stand out as the week of the year, but is on my top ten list over life the greatest life experiences I've ever had and I think it will actually stand out as top ten experiences of my life until the day I die. It was not only profound, it was also totally mind-blowing and totally transformative in the way that I will never look at life or the Universe or my consciousness in the same way ever again. I know you guys know about the experience since I shared it in our private club, but I won't write more about it here.

The transformative and mindblowing I must admit I see in the t.Pluto partile on n. MC while t. Uranus is partile square rel. MC and t. Neptune is square rel. ASC (a bit wider, but within 2°).

The SLR angles are not that interesting in this case and they do not indicate an outstanding SLR )but n. Neptune does touch closely to the SLR DSC. The natal nodes and the transiting nodes are also worth looking at. However, it must be stated that once again I see the tropical LR describe this by having t. Uranus partile the LR ASC.

The lunar return took place in Edinburgh, but then I travelled to Mallorca, Spain on Oct 30th where this experience took place.

[SteveS]

Arena wrote:

However, it must be stated that once again I see the tropical LR describe this by having t. Uranus partile the LR ASC.

Arena, if you are using ‘precession corrected’ Tropical Lunar Returns, then t. Uranus would be partile the ‘LR ASC’ with Sidereal Returns, correct?? Are you using ‘precession corrected’ Tropical Lunar Returns for your work? If not, your non-precession corrected Tropical Lunar Returns will not hold much weight on this forum. You would have to present many non-precession return charts with tight angular hits to present a valid argument using non precession. But I surely understand each astrologer, Sidereal or Tropical has to rely on what resonates with their immediate environments using their personal systems of astrology. Good to see active again.

[Arena]

Steve, since I've now been seeing it happen so many times that tropical returns are showing me something very important - I do feel it would be both irresponsible and unwise of me to not even look at them when such an important experience comes up. Therefore I do make a not of it and this is just non precessed.

I do find it remarkable that sidereal lunar return is not really picking up this important life experience to its angles, but of course we do see the transiting planets come to important connection with natal and relocated angles. However it must also be said that I did not check angularity in mundo which might change things... and this is only for 23.40 bt - but if bt is closer to 23.20 then Pluto comes very close to the SLR MC and would explain this transformative experience in the SLR.

But then again this just confirms my personal view that SLRs are not really reliable as has been shown many times before - but I am not getting into that here. Just wanted to make a note of this one most important lunar return that recently came up.

[Jim Eshelman]

I do find it remarkable that sidereal lunar return is not really picking up this important life experience to its angles, but of course we do see the transiting planets come to important connection with natal and relocated angles. However it must also be said that I did not check angularity in mundo which might change things... and this is only for 23.40 bt - but if bt is closer to 23.20 then Pluto comes very close to the SLR MC and would explain this transformative experience in the SLR.

Which SLR is this? (I've lost track of whether current or past is under discussion.) I can do a quick check for you.

[Arena]

Hey Jim. This is Sept 28th lunar return.
https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1670#p21108

[Jim Eshelman]

Your September 28 SLR for Edinburgh for the 11:40 PM birth time has the following angularities:

t Moon on Asc -0°18'
r Pluto on Dsc -0°36'
r Neptune on Dsc -1°14'
t Uranus on EP 1°15' (or on Asc +8°52')
t Jupiter on Dsc +3°35'
r Saturn on Asc -8°27'

These produce the following mundane aspects:

t Moon op. r Pluto 0°54'
t Moon op. r Neptune 0°56'
t Moon-Jupiter op. 3°53'
r Neptune-Pluto conj. 1°50'
t Jupiter op. r Pluto 4°11'
t Jupiter op. r Neptune 4°49'

[Arena]

Thanks Jim.
So with this birthtime, this would mean that ecliptic chart is not valid at all - or at least it's not revealing such a profound experince... and the mundo chart is the only valid thing to look at.
But the Pluto, Uranus, Neptune angularity certainly describes it, and perhaps the Moon as well because it was indeed emotional as well.