Natal planets conj. WP in SSR

[Ember Nyx]

Hi all,

I have the "Eq Asc" and "Eq Dsc" chart points in my set of displayed points, which leads to my question.

I came across a chart which appears to have a (relocated) natal Ve-Ur conjunction foreground, conjunct the "Eq Dsc" point. It's ecliptically square the MC just over 2* - outside the recommended orb, I believe.
I understand that contacts to the actual WP are best checked in right ascension. However, how would one go about doing this for natal planets? Do they need to be precessed into the return chart's sidereal framework as we do for natal contacts to Asc/MC/Dsc/IC?

Here is the info:

Birth data:
Nov 8 1989, 3:00am
Tallinn, Estonia

Current location:
Melbourne, Australia

Return info:
2018 Solar Return in Melbourne, Australia (Solar Fire gives this as 10:28:27pm for Melbourne)

Short version: Is the natal Ve-Ur conjunction foreground or not?

I'd love your thoughts

[Jim Eshelman]

If the planets are for the same date/time (or nearly so) as the angles - as in a current SLR or SSR, for example - then there is no need to bring precession into the calculation.

If the two are from different points in time - such as a transit to a natal Eastpoint - then yes, they have to be brought into the same framework. (The easiest way is to precess the single transit item back to the natal date.)

[Ember Nyx]

Thanks, Jim.

So, if I'm understanding this right, if the ecliptical longitude of the Equatorial Descendant in the Solar Return, which gets precessed back 29 years to be in the same framework as the relocated natal, is ecliptically conjunct natal planets, those natal planets are correspondingly foreground in the Solar Return?

If so, is there a formula readily accessible to calculate that precession?

I'm aware of tropicalists' "deleting accrued precession" in some of their work but don't remember seeing a formula for it anywhere.

[Jim Eshelman]

So, if I'm understanding this right, if the ecliptical longitude of the Equatorial Descendant in the Solar Return, which gets precessed back 29 years to be in the same framework as the relocated natal, is ecliptically conjunct natal planets, those natal planets are correspondingly foreground in the Solar Return?

No. The Eastpoint and Westpoint have no ecliptical validity. Their ecliptical position is worthless other than as a hint that you should look for an RA contact.

If the problem is natal planet on SSR/SLR Eastpoint, precess the natal planet to the epoch of the SSR or SLR.

If so, is there a formula readily accessible to calculate that precession?

You extracted the equations from the Excel spreadsheet, right? One of the intermediate steps calculates precessed RA and Dec before it calculates the mundoscope position.

[Ember Nyx]

GOT IT.

Thanks so much for your help. I didn't pay close enough attention to what the values actually were when I was reverse engineering it, just what values needed to be used where.

For anyone else following this thread - the answer to the original question is yes, precessed natal Ve-Ur are conjunct the SSR WP: Venus conj WP 1*16', Uranus conj WP 1*15'.
t. Saturn is also conj WP 1*21' (almost 22') in the same chart, visible in the Z-Analogue RA chart for the SSR and in the Solunars Mundo spreadsheet.

For those using the Solunars Mundo spreadsheet, in the Calcs tab, RAMC is where the MC would show up in a Z-Analogue RA chart in Solar Fire, and
everything in Column D are RA coordinates for precessed planets (in 0-359* format, obviously). (Make sure to put in all the longitudes, latitudes, LST, etc before you bother checking this.)
It's fairly simple to identify and visualize where natal planets would show up relative to transiting planets in the Z-Analogue RA chart, if Solar Fire did these calculations for natal planets.