A few synastry examples

[Avshalom Binyamin]

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[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

What's Layer 1, 2 & 3?

[Avshalom Binyamin]

The method Jim demos in the pinned thread at the top of the synastry forum.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Thanks. We have a lot of 1-2-3 stuff, like orbs for instance, sometimes I can't figure out which one is being used in a particular case. And I plain forgot about that one.

[Avshalom Binyamin]

Deleted

[Avshalom Binyamin]

Here's another interesting chart, with a similar-but-very-different pattern.

O: October 8, 1980 11:57am El Cajon, CA
K: March 3, 1968 7:25pm Portland, OR

Layer One

His>Hers

Sun oppose Mars 3°18’
Sun oppose Saturn 4°02’
Moon oppose Mars 0°16’
Moon oppose Saturn 0°28’
Mercury oppose Moon 1°59’
Venus conjunct Jupiter 5°00’
Mars square Jupiter 1°53’
Mars conjunct Neptune 0°50’
Jupiter conjunct AC 4°20’
Jupiter square MC 4°27’
Saturn conjunct AC 1°34’
Saturn square MC 1°29’

Hers>His

Sun square AC 6°01’
Moon oppose Mercury 1°59’
Mars oppose Sun 3°18’
Mars oppose Moon 0°16’
Jupiter conjunct Venus 5°00’
Jupiter square Mars 1°53’
Saturn oppose Sun 4°02’
Saturn oppose Moon 0°28’

There's much less Venus in this one. His Sun and Moon are in aspect to her Saturn again, but in this case, it's a Saturn-Mars conjunction, instead of a Saturn-Neptune conjunction.

Saturn-Mars is a really unfortunate aspect. A person's sense of power and energy is sapped, and they can react to this sense of weakness in unfortunate ways. Fortunately, this person has some other saving graces (angular Uranus, Jupiter octile to the Saturn-Mars aspect). Plus, she is older, so she's had more time to accept and integrate her personality issues.

What's really fascinating about this chart is that though there are no Sun-Moon aspects between the two, her Saturn-Mars is at her Sun-Moon midpoint, and at her Jupiter-Neptune midpoint (oh, and his Venus connects to her Jupiter, and his Mars to her Neptune), and his Sun and Moon (especially Moon) is opposite that. So though his connection is to her "neurosis", she's embraced it as a central part of personality, and feels very much seen by him.

Layer Two

His>Hers

Jupiter sextile Neptune 0°30’
Mars conjunct Neptune 0°50’
Mars octile Saturn 0°55’
Mars octile Mars 0°11’
Moon octile Neptune 0°23’
Moon oppose Saturn 0°28’
Moon oppose Mars 0°16’
Sun trine Venus 0°27’

Hers>His

Neptune sextile Jupiter
Neptune conjunct Mars
Neptune octile Moon
Saturn octile Mars
Saturn oppose Moon
Mars octile Mars
Mars oppose Moon
Venus trine Sun

There's a lot of symmetry in their experience of each other as events.

For both of them, it starts off with the Jupiter-Neptune, and finishes with Sun-Venus. In the middle, there's a lot of Mars-and-Saturn. If the laughter stops, it might be trouble.

[Veronica]

I posted this one because it has some interesting themes for me.

It's interesting that, after a Venus-Pluto year, and entering a year with more Saturn, my thoughts have turned toward ideas of commitment and *gasp* monogamy. On my birthday, this person texted me, and ended up asking me out on a date.

Obviously, in spite of the positive romantic energy, having my Sun and Moon square to someone else's Saturn-Neptune conjunction isn't a recipe for personal fulfillment.

I wondered why lately I keep seeing Saturn aspects showing up in synastry for potential romantic partners. It seemed contradictory. Aspect descriptions says something like, "though particularly common among marriage partners, this interchange is usually disappointing"

Other astrology sites seem to have a less negative view of Saturn aspects in synastry. They talk about it in terms of commitment and security, but I think they overlook the fact that so many marriages are unhappy and end in divorce.

Around 7/8 years ago, at the end of my Saturn return, I began to buck the ideas of self-sacrificing commitment, and started coming out of my shell. (I also took on new responsibilities, included becoming a dad). But I also lost out on some things, by becoming emotionally un-available for a while. Now that I'm having a Saturn-Saturn square, I'm re-evaluating some of that.

I've been trying to understand what different Saturn aspects in synastry mean, and how they manifest.

Saturn is about our own mortality and insignificance in the face of time. Knowledge of this causes us to act more cautiously, and try to create security to protect against this reality.

When Saturn aspects a partner's planet, it means that something about our partner's planet triggers a sense of insecurity in us. Jealousy and control are two manifestations of insecurity.

I had Saturn square my last girlfriend's Venus. And though I'm not generally a jealous person, I did feel twinge of jealousy over her socializing and romantic activities. (We had a monogamish/open relationship, and she is an exotic dancer). I actually craved monogamy with her, and she would have been inclined to accept it, had I requested it. But my Jupiter was more closely square her Venus, and I didn't want to limit her Venus expression in that way. The Venus-Saturn aspect was kind of a recipe for unhappiness in that area.

With the person in the original post of this thread, there is definitely a temptation to sacrifice myself to someone I love. My Sun and Moon are *almost* willing to be limited, for the sake of love.

But the fact is that a Saturn-Neptune conjunction is more than just Saturn. It represents unyielding idealism, and is a recipe for anxiety. Combine that in a person who has angular Sun, and I can see that the fact that my Sun and Moon connect with this aspect instead of their Sun and/or Moon, means that I would be sacrificing my true self to someone's neurosis. No thank you.

Thanks for sharing your insights on this. I too have been thinking about Saturn this past year....

This statement really hit home for me

"Ive been trying to understand what different Saturn aspects in synastry mean, and how they manifest.

Saturn is about our own mortality and insignificance in the face of time. Knowledge of this causes us to act more cautiously, and try to create security to protect against this reality.

When Saturn aspects a partner's planet, it means that something about our partner's planet triggers a sense of insecurity in us. Jealousy and control are two manifestations of insecurity."

In my midpoint chart with my last relationship, my partner and I have sun conjunct saturn in Aries.

It has always felt to me that both of our challenges were our personal insecurities and that they did manifest in very ugly control and jealousy issues.

I really feel though that if we both were more in our own personal power and thus felt less insecure in this world we would be able to break free of that lower manifestation of the aspect an be open to the higher.

It feels like for me that the negative/ challenging aspect will always be there but instead of worring about "other lovers" and such low base jealousy we might shift it up an accord to be like. "You ate the last strawberry"

Any way thanks for sharing and the food for thought I always look forward to your posts

[Avshalom Binyamin]

Here's a third one. It has a similarity in that this person also has a Mars-Saturn aspect (a trine this time) and the two people have a Moon-Mars (octile).

The difference is that there are significant luminary aspects, and they are great friends, but the sexual/romantic part of the relationship was intense and temporary.

O: October 8, 1980 11:57am El Cajon, CA
M: September 30, 1970 7:33pm Bangor, ME

Layer One

His>Hers

Sun conjunct Moon 3°57’
Moon conjunct Moon 0°23’
Moon conjunct Sun 4°34’
Moon conjunct Uranus 2°53’
Mercury conjunct DC 1°45’
Mercury conjunct Jupiter 2°23’
Mars conjunct Neptune 1°25’
Mars oppose Saturn 5°23’
Saturn conjunct Sun 5°23’

Hers>His

Sun conjunct Moon 4°34’
Sun conjunct MC 2°15’
Sun conjunct Saturn 5°23’
Moon conjunct Sun 3°57’
Moon conjunct Moon 0°23’
Mercury square Neptune 0°12’
Mercury square AC 0°12’
Venus conjunct Uranus 4°39’
Mars square Neptune 2°31’
Mars square AC 2°03’
Jupiter conjunct Mercury 2°23’

These two both have Virgo stellia, have moons closely conjunct, have reciprocal Sun-Moon conjunctions, reciprocal Mercury-Angle aspects.

But there’s also a close Mercury Neptune square, and a wider Mars-Saturn opposition, and a Saturn-Sun conjunction.

They are two peas in a pod. They are intensely similar in many ways, and communication flows well between them. But there is a touch of the “familiarity breeds contempt” that spoils the party a bit.


Layer Two

His>Hers

Pluto square MC 0°41’
Neptune square Mercury 0°12’
Uranus octile Uranus 0°42’
Uranus octile Sun 0°59’
Mars sextile Pluto 0°13’
Mars octile M Moon 0°50’
Moon conjunct Moon 0°23’

Hers>His

Pluto sextile Mars
Uranus octile Uranus
Mercury square Neptune
Moon octile Mars
Moon conjunct Moon
Sun octile Uranus

For her, knowing him is a profoundly transformative event. When they dated, she began learning tango, bought a home, and finished writing a (now very successful book). He gave her a taste of things and she wanted more! The sexual connection was intense! But there was underlying irritation.

For him, knowing her unbottled his sexuality. (The two once had a remarkable experience of a night of lovemaking that lasted until after sunrise, where the two lost count of her orgasms somewhere north of fifty). That level of intensity fogged up communication.


Layer Three

O Sun octile M Neptune 1°42’
O Moon octile M Neptune 1°52’
O Mercury octile M Pluto 2°11’
O Saturn octile M Venus 1°43’
O MC conjunct M Uranus 3°56’

The Sun-Moon-Neptune octile, and Saturn-Venus octile hint at the temporary nature of this, and that he would be the one to spoil the party.

In the end, there wasn’t quite enough Venus to soften the intensity of this connection between two very similar, connected people.

They still remain friends, and will probably always be in each other’s lives.

[Avshalom Binyamin]

Thanks V!

[Jim Eshelman]

Man, you really like those Moon-Mars relationships

But I have to say, this is probably the very best kind of Moon-Mars relationship to have!

First, she's an Aquarius-Scorpio - and she has (all very close) Moon opposite Jupiter square Venus T-square right on her angles, among other stuff. She's passionate, willing to be out-of-the-box, broadly capable of being independent compromised only by the fact that others' opinions and feedback from and interaction with others is vital to her. (I said "compromised" but don't mean that as a bad thing. Like most things, it's good or bad based on context.)

Her Moon-Venus-Jupiter falls right on your Mars. It's everything we've previously discussed about a Moon-Mars relationship except with a whole lot of niceness, kindness, generosity, and even more upping the passion tossed in.

I'm skeptical of this being for the long-run, but it's really fascinating and interesting as it is for all the rest of what's there: With the above, we also find all sorts of things affecting you in this interchange. (1) Her Uranus exactly conjoins your EP: She's exciting, brings new things, probably generally makes circumstances feel new and fresh. (2) Your Venus is exactly on her Ascendant: You unconditionally love her, or are capable of loving her without resistance. (That this ties in distantly to her Moon, Venus, and Jupiter just sweetens the pot.) (3) Your Mars exactly opposes her Uranus, which is explosive and interesting. (4) Her exact Saturn-Neptune conjunction murders your Moon and (more widely) your Sun.

The last is pretty complex. A relationship could be built on "running with" those aspects in the sense of consciously hanging in, in order to work through each other's shadow stuff. She is like an exact Saturn-Neptune transit to your Moon, which usually is a pretty bleak, vulnerable, morbid state of mind. You OTOH stir any security issues she has and dredge up reminders of shadow stuff in the sludge of her psyche (we all have such sludge, of course). There are all sorts of other things one could say about this - about neither quite knowing the right way to approach this, some sort of confusion and "never able to get it out quite right" (or something like that).

Which makes it tough - despite having the very best kind of Moon-Mars interchange two people could have.

Or so it seems to me.

[Avshalom Binyamin]

Yes, that's precisely it. What is funny is that her morose side (Neptune-Saturn) is part of what I adore about her (Venus-Asc)--she's like an Edward Gorey character--even if it stops me because I don't want to create a unhappy story. I love the dark and morose but deep down want to inhabit it playfully, and probably don't pair well with someone much darker or more depressed than me.

And yes, it seems moon-mars is there for any situation that gets my attention strong. Apparently I like the intensity (with my moon-mars octile and angular Neptune there's probably a dopamine/reward situation happening).

[TheScales_BothWays]

Jupiter will transit 2º Scorpio later this month, semisquaring both your Moon and A's Saturn-Neptune. Should be a very light time for both of you, for her especially, clearing worries, anxieties fears and providing relief.

Maybe this could a great time to begin to reconnect? (If you'd like to, of course.)

Later then, interestingly, Jupiter goes to transit your Mars (and her Jupiter), then to her Moon-Venus, and then her Angles (and your Venus).