Solar Arc Directions

[SteveS]

A couple of days ago Jim renewed my interest in Solar Arc Directions by posting Trump had a partile SA Pluto partile cnj his Natal Jupiter on election day 2016, which certainly helps explain astrologically how Trump, a complete political DC outsider timed the unlikely event he becoming Prez.

Solar Arc Directions were held in high esteem by several prominent astrological writers, but somehow this forum has overlooked them. Maybe the reason for this is I can't recall ever seeing the prominent Sidereal Astrologers writers discuss much about Solar Arc Directions. Anyway, I just looked at some of my recent Solar Arc conjunctions to my Natal Planets and I was somewhat floored the acute dead-on symbolism they manifested in my life. In fact, taken as a stand alone aspect--it described my going on's in my life better than the Sidereal Astrology techniques i use for my astrological work.

I have a book here titled "Directions" Co Determinants of Fate by Reinhold Ebertin which I used to study many years ago but forgot about. Probably the main reason we tend to forget about the astrological importance of Solar Arcs is they only mature partile 0,90,180 aspects very slowly in life. Anyway, Jim has always endorsed Ebertin's astrological work and Jim endorses Ebertin's book on SA Directions so I will be offering some of Ebertin's examples in his book along with his words about Solar Arcs--maybe we all can renew our learning/remembrance about Solar Arcs.

too be continued

[SteveS]

Just noticed an important SA for Trump happening now.SA Venus 11,03 Vir; Natal Neptune 11,51 Vir. Ebertin says for this combo under negative manifestation:

A difficult realization of ideals and wishes, an awakening from emotional infatuation with the awareness of disappointment or disillusionment. Wrong ways...

Surprise, surprise, surprise...

And note for election date 2020 he receives SA Saturn to his Natal Neptune---bye bye Trump.

[SteveS]

Jim, my first question to you pertaining to Solar Arc Directing with angles: Do we use birth location or event/relocated location?

[Jim Eshelman]

Jim, my first question to you pertaining to Solar Arc Directing with angles: Do we use birth location or event/relocated location?

The default in German and similar circles has always been natal, with no consideration of local.

However, I think both are equally valid.

[SteveS]

Yes, I understand Jim, thanks.

[SteveS]

Quickly spot checking my colleague SA’s on Dec 26, 2018 for a heart attack and a week later triple by-pass surgery.

SA PL 06,48 Lib
NA MO 06,47 Aries
SA MC 3,11 Leo
NA PL 3,40 Leo

There is probably more SA hits with harmonic 8 aspects, but I need go no further looking at that SA PL NA MO hit. Without a doubt the most ‘stunning/shocking’ (Pluto) event to ever happen in his life.

[Jim Eshelman]

Stunning indeed.

Technically, Solar Arcs have a 1° orb though I've usually seen mine having greatest effect almost exactly at exact (within a week or so of exact), with orbs under 0°05' common.

I've settled into a practical sense of being open to anything within a degree but, mostly, expecting something to be exact within a very few minutes, and then look around to see what else is there within a degree for details.

In your friend's case, d Pluto op. r Moon 0°01' is the main message - exactly on! - while the simultaneous (wider) presence of d MC conj. r Pluto (0°29') helps supplement and round out the picture. (Of course, you don't need Solar Arcs to get hits from Sun or MC, since they are identical with secondary progressions; but that Pluto to Moon is piercingly accurate.)

[SteveS]

Exactly Jim! I was somewhat disappointed going through my stack of charts for the symbolism for this heart attack/surgery event, but when I rolled out the SA's hits---BINGO! Again a reminder for us not to forget keeping Solar Arcs in our stack of charts.

[Danica]

Mile Dupor, a prolific and influential Balkan astrologer from beginning of 20th century, quickly came to fame in his environment by predicting events in people's lives based solely on Solar Arc Directions. He was not even going into fine calculations of 00*00', just giving the year of life and the type of event, based on planets involved.

[SteveS]

Danica wrote:

Mile Dupor, a prolific and influential Balkan astrologer from beginning of 20th century, quickly came to fame in his environment by predicting events in people's lives based solely on Solar Arc Directions. He was not even going into fine calculations of 00*00', just giving the year of life and the type of event, based on planets involved.

I can certainly understand your above statement Danica. Solar Arc Directions are so reliable from a timing and symbolic standpoint, they should definitely be in the astrologer's stack of charts no matter how the astrologer practices their stack of charts. Solar Arc Directions are once in a lifetime hits/cycles which leaves a huge imprint on one's psyche. Thanks for your input.

[SteveS]

Since I had forgotten about the importance of Solar Arcs until recently, I have finally found what I consider the par-excellent symbolism for the US entering WW11 in 1941. It is seen in the Boyd Chart.

SA SUN 90 NA MARS

https://imgur.com/a/lwpgIZZ

[Jim Eshelman]

SA SUN 90 NA MARS

That's great symbolism!

I noticed, though, that you seem to have your computer set for Q1 - you're basing these solar arcs on the Q1 Sun not the Q2 Sun. It's always possible that you're right in doing that, but it does defy the entire body of work the Ebertins and their co-workers did on solar arcs.

Recalculating it with Q2 Sun as the base, you still get the same aspect. Directed Sun is 6°30' Sagittarius, still in orb of natal Mars at 5°47' Virgo. In both calculations, there's another aspect at the same time that is quite strange, directed Venus opposite natal Mercury. For my Q2 calculations, it's applying by 07', while for your Q1 calculations it's applying by 49'.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

I noticed, though, that you seem to have your computer set for Q1 - you're basing these solar arcs on the Q1 Sun not the Q2 Sun. It's always possible that you're right in doing that, but it does defy the entire body of work the Ebertins and their co-workers did on solar arcs.

I doubled check and my SF (Version 7.01) was set to Q2, and the list generated for 'Directions to Radix' under 'Dynamic' gives me a SA Sun 5,47 Sag, Radical Mars 5,47 Vir-- date Mar 23 1941. Could this be a difference in our two different versions of SF??? I am very tempted to rectify Boyd's chart placing Boyd's radical Mars exact cnj Boyd's Asc with USA's declaration of War on Japan.

Jim, be sure and check out the upcoming action of Boyd's SA Pluto action with Boyd's radical.

[Jim Eshelman]

I doubled check and my SF (Version 7.01) was set to Q2, and the list generated for 'Directions to Radix' under 'Dynamic' gives me a SA Sun 5,47 Sag, Radical Mars 5,47 Vir-- date Mar 23 1941. Could this be a difference in our two different versions of SF??? I am very tempted to rectify Boyd's chart placing Boyd's radical Mars exact cnj Boyd's Asc with USA's declaration of War on Japan.

OK, let me check this more carefully. (I only calculated the Q2 and saw your positions most of a degree earlier and assumed SF was using whatever progressed Sun rate you told it to use.)

BTW, I got caught up in your Solar Arc excitement and it never occurred to me (LOL) that this isn't a Solar Arc issue because you're using Sun. That is, it's just secondary progessed Sun which is ALSO the Solar Arc Sun.

Natal chart: July 6, 1775 11:00 AM LMT, Philadelphia, PA.
Event: December 7l 1941, 7:48 AM HST = 1:18 PM EST
Q2 Sun: 6°30' Sagittarius
Q1 Sun: 6°02' Sagittarius

Hmmm... that's not what you got either. OH WAIT (I missed this), you were looking at March 23,1941, eight and a half months before we entered World War II. The date is wrong.

But, while we're at it, let's settle how Solar Fire works once and for all. While still on Q1, I calculate a Solar Arc chart for the Pearl Harbor attack and, sure enough, Sun is 6°02' Sagittarius. SF will use whatever you give it as a secondary progressed Sun, so rate settings do affect its results. Useful to know.

Jim, be sure and check out the upcoming action of Boyd's SA Pluto action with Boyd's radical.

Boyd chart directed Pluto is currently 0°32' past conjunction with natal Moon, is that the aspect? It was exact last July and leaves orb roughly July 2019.

If I took the Boyd chart seriously, I'd be more concerned about Solar Arc Saturn applying 0°53' to conjoin MC and directed angles preparing to contact natal Mars in... 2021, which we already know is a volatile year.

[Jim Eshelman]

BTW, I looked at Solar Arcs for the Declaration of Independence chart for Trump's election and found something not stated so clearly in any other thig I've seen. All the Russian hacking was broadly shown by Mercury combined with Mars, Uranus, Pluto, Sun etc. in various ingresses - digital warfare, I suppose, but the extent of the disinformation campaign was never stated so obviously.

But here we see directed Mercury opposite natal Neptune separating 0°36' for the election, meaning it was exact about 7 months earlier, in April. It's the clearest mark I've seen for fact-distortion, disinformation, and media-poisoning anywhere.

Which raises the question of whether this chart for the American people would show something like the deposing of a president... so I roll the solar arc wheel back to August 9, 1974, and find... nothing, actually. But I flip back to secondary progressions and get:

p Moon tr. p Sun 0°07' sep.
p Mars sq. r Sun 0°11' sep.
p Mars conj. r Asc 0°13' ap.
p Venus sq. p Uranus 0°27' sep.

Striking! OK, now that I know the kind of thing I'm looking for, is anything similar coming up soon? Here are progressed aspects for today.

p Venus sq. p Pluto 0°08' ap. [Venus moves 65'/yr, sq. to r Pluto was 8/2017]
p Saturn tr. r Venus 0°09' ap. [Saturn is moving 02'/year]
p Jupiter conj. r MC 0°22' sep. [Jupiter moves 1'/yr]
p Mars conj. r EP 0°38' ap. [Mars is moving 09'/year]

BTW that exact Jupiter progression to U.S. MC (to the minute of arc) was in 2009. It's been in 1°° orb since 1993 when Bill Clinton came into office. It turns stationary 27' from MC in 2025 when, however, it is squared by progressed Mars. In fact, spring 2025 has a most interesting combination: In partile orb of U.S. MC is an exact progressed Moon-Mars-Jupiter T-square. Perhaps the most concentrated time is about March 3, 2025 when progressed Moon is halfway between progressed Mars and progressed Jupiter.

FWIW.

[SteveS]

Jim,
For Philadelphia Boyd I show the Q1 SA SUN 90 Boyd Mars exact Sept 7, 1941.
For Philadelphia Boyd I show the Q2 SA SUN 90 Boyd Mars exact Mar 23, 1941.
For Philadelphia Boyd I show the Q1 Mars 45 Boyd Pluto exact Dec 5, 1941
For Philadelphia Boyd I show the Q2 Mars 45 Boyd Pluto exact June 20, 1941

But understand, the Q1 vs Q2 is not my issue here, both Q1 & Q2 Mars hits occurred in 1941, the YEAR USA declared itself into WW11.

IMO, what we all need to look at is the action of Boyd’s Solar Arc Pluto beginning November 21 2020 with SA Pluto exact cnj Boyd’s Philadelphia Asc, the first time in USA history SA Pluto will be conjunct Boyd's Asc. Note: When SA Pluto cnj Mars a couple of years ago—Trump was elected Prez!!! Since then, politically, DC politics has turned into a frigging waring nightmare! Combine this SA Pluto with the god awful malefic 2021 Capsolar, the most malefic Capsolar in the history of USA IMO, DC’s government is definitely headed for malefic times. This SA Pluto action appears to be timing itself with the 2020 Prez Election.

Boyd’s Solar Arc Chart—outside wheel; Boyd’s Radical---inside wheel

https://imgur.com/a/2pZ9BEP

About in the middle of the 2021 Prez 4 year term, Boyd’s SA Moon partile 90 Boyd’s Mars.

Both Q1 & Q2 Boyd's Moon will exactly 90 Boyd's Mars in 2021 Prez term.

[Jim Eshelman]

For Philadelphia Boyd I show the Q1 SA SUN 90 Boyd Mars exact Sept 7, 1941.
For Philadelphia Boyd I show the Q2 SA SUN 90 Boyd Mars exact Mar 23, 1941.
For Philadelphia Boyd I show the Q1 Mars 45 Boyd Pluto exact Dec 5, 1941
For Philadelphia Boyd I show the Q2 Mars 45 Boyd Pluto exact June 20, 1941

I hadn't calculated it that way (I just checked the specific date).

I confirm March 23 and September 7 for progressed Sun exact to natal Mars.

I think your calculations are wrong on the Mars, though. For 12/7/41 I get Boyd progressed Mars 0°22' Capricorn (with natal Pluto 4°08' Capricorn and progressed Pluto 3°44' Cap). Progressed Mars didn't conjoin progressed Pluto until 1946 (and progressed Pluto after that). Am I misunderstanding you and checking the wrong thing?

But understand, the Q1 vs Q2 is not my issue here, both Q1 & Q2 Mars hits occurred in 1941, the YEAR USA declared itself into WW11.

Yes, I know that wasn't the issue; but I can't confirm progressed Mars aspecting natal or progressed Pluto until five or six years later when the war was over.

[SteveS]

I will work-up/copy Solar Fire Solar Arc lists and post later.

[Jim Eshelman]

I will work-up/copy Solar Fire Solar Arc lists and post later.

So was that Mars-Pluto a Solar Arc aspect or a secondary progressed aspect? I'm confused.

[SteveS]

Jim, i instructed Solarfire to 'Direct to Radix. Here is the list produced:
DYNAMIC REPORT

Dynamic Chart (2):
BOYD USA - Natal Chart
Jul 6 1775 NS, 11:00 am, LMT +5:00:39
Philadelphia Pennsylvania, 39°N57'08'', 075°W09'51''
Geocentric Fagan-Allen Zodiac
Campanus Houses, True Node

Selection: Standard
Mar (6) Qnx Mer (11) (X) Sa-Na May 19 1941 08:14:40 am EDT 165.868 18°Aq35' D 18°Cn35' D
Ura (2) SSq Sat (1) (X) Sa-Na Aug 10 1941 07:10:28 pm EDT 166.096 26°Li20' D 11°Vi20' D
Sun (3) Sqr Mar (12) (X) Sa-Na Sep 7 1941 04:54:29 pm EDT 166.172 05°Sg47' D 05°Vi47' D
Mar (6) SSq Plu (4) (X) Sa-Na Dec 5 1941 09:40:19 pm EST 166.417 19°Aq08' D 04°Cp08' R
*** END REPORT ***

*Note the "Sa-Na" in list before dates. I take Sa to mean Solar Arc.

[Jim Eshelman]

Jim, i instructed Solarfire to 'Direct to Radix. Here is the list produced:

I see... you included semi-squares and sesqui-squares (and, for that matter, quincunxes), and was only running 4th harmonic. You were using solar arcs and (despite the thread caption) I thought you were doing secondary progressions.

Switching to 8th harmonic, for 1941 on Boyd I get:

Ura SSq Sat Sa-Na Feb 23 1941 6:27p EST (X)
Sun Sqr Mar Sa-Na Mar 23 1941 2:20p EST (X)
Mar SSq Plu Sa-Na Jun 20 1941 3:10p EDT (X)

Or, using Q1 progressed Sun:

Ura SSq Sat Sa-Na Aug 10 1941 7:10p EDT (X)
Sun Sqr Mar Sa-Na Sep 7 1941 4:54p EDT (X)
Mar SSq Plu Sa-Na Dec 5 1941 9:40p EST (X)

Confirmed!

[SteveS]

Jim, the more research I do with the Boyd chart, the more I think we got an accurate enough timed Radical Chart. If that SA Pluto 0 Boyd's Natal Asc manifests, I think we will see the most stunning/shocking incidents pertaining to an election (2020) ever! Then we have that 2021 Capsolar! I will save my speculations for later.

[Jim Eshelman]

Jim, the more research I do with the Boyd chart, the more I think we got an accurate enough timed Radical Chart.

Go for it! I have absolutely no interest in it except as a sideline curio or specialty chart, especially as it distracts attention from what I'm convinced is the most expressive chart of American and her people, so I won't be joining you on this particular adventure.

But indeed, go for it!

[SteveS]

Thanks Jim, I understand your position. I will indeed 'go for it' since I think the Boyd chart is more reflected of that Rising Mars-Saturn combo when the worse things manifest for the Country. But I respect the July 4th chart.

[SteveS]

JFK Assassination:
SA Boyd Mars 11,28 Pi
r Boyd Saturn 11,20 Vir

Inside wheel Boyd's SA Mars and SA Asc located to DC; Outside wheel Boyd's Philadelphia Radical. *Note a Paran 'Phase' with Mars & Saturn with the two bi-wheel charts.
https://imgur.com/a/AGp8jjL

Unemployment in the Country peaked out between 1931-1932 at over 25% from The Great Depression, the highest unemployment in the history of the USA.
Boyd SA Pluto partile cnj Boyd's MC
Boyd SA Mars partile cnj Boyd's SA DC Asc

* Note: When we relocate Boyd's Radical Philadelphia to DC, Boyd's SA Mars will always be in partile phase cnj to Boyd's DC SA Asc, since everything in the chart is moving 1 degree. The only time in the history of the USA we have seen a Paran 'Phase' simultaneous with two angles involving Boyd's SA Mars & Pluto was with the Great Depression. These two angles involved Boyd's SA DC Asc and Boyd's r. MC. Beginning in Nov. 2019 through 2021, we will again see a Paran 'Phase' for the second time in modern USA's history with SA Mars & SA Pluto involving two Boyd angles, Boyd's SA DC ASC (Mars) and Boyd's r. ASC with SA Pluto.

[Jim Eshelman]

JFK Assassination:
SA Boyd Mars 11,28 Pi
r Boyd Saturn 11,20 Vir

Good symbolism! Although for November 22, 1963, 13:30 EST I get solar arc Mars 12°00' Pisces. Still partile, but not nearly as close. - For the same event, you can add:
d Neptune (4°54' Pisces) op. r Mars (5°47' Virgo)
(Your Mars position is what you get if you use Q1 progressed Sun.)

[SteveS]

Thanks Jim.

[SteveS]

You can also use solar arc lengths to trace the developments in a relationship. Seeing how one person’s current solar arc is setting off the planetary pairs in the other’s natal chart is an easy and effective way to uncover the issues that one partner is currently experiencing as the result of being in a relationship with the other.

Astrolabe

Solar arc direction is one of the oldest predictive techniques in astrology.

Astrolabe

[Jim Eshelman]

For what it's worth...

In practice, I haven't found that progressions or directions of one person's chart to another's planets means anything (although progressed-to-progressed can mean a lot: one important decades-spanning relationship has our progressed Suns in perpetual partile square, and another long-lasting one rose and fell substantially on how our progressed Moons remained in partile orb of conjunct each other for years).

In my 20s I watched this a lot because, well, I was a young man with my particular chart and was routinely assessing odds of, er, success with someone based on chart connections. Basic synastry was useful, but it also gave lessons (learned only with embarrassment) that a woman's progressed Venus aspecting my natal Mars or her progressed Mars aspecting my natal Venus didn't mean a thing. (Same with directions.)

You did alert me to something curious to check... and, while I'm not sure it persuades me of its value, it's at least an interesting thing people might want to watch. It's looking at solar arc to solar arc. This is theoretically really interesting, because (given age difference) it won't at all be the same as natal-to-natal but (for the most part) will stay exactly the same for life. (Each person's solar arc planets move at slightly different speeds, so some aspects may move in and out of orb across many years or decades, but mostly they will stay the same.) Just do the two solar arc charts for any event at all and compare them: the aspects will be more or less permanent.

My first shot at checking this gives a contrary (or at least mixed) result. The main effect is that Marion's directed Saturn is in perpetual opposition to my directed Mercury - ill-fitting since quality communication is a hallmark of our relationship. It might be confused by the fact that (given her exact Mercury-Saturn square) her directed Mercury is in perpetual opposition to my directed Mercury. I won't accept lazy interpretations like, "lots of communication, and we really work at it," so I'm not sure what to make of this, but it's a new idea (to me) to explore.

Some other examples (now that you caught my interest on this):

A friend with whom I almost had a child has her d Venus in perpetual conjunction with my d Venus (square my d Pluto) and her d MC to my d Neptune.

A relationship that was quite important at the time (but the time was short) had no connections; oh, wait, her d MC is perpetually conjunct my d Saturn, which does reflect the "off more than on" circumstances. (Another relationship that i could describe in almost the same words had no directed-to-directed aspects at all other than a perpetual Neptune-to-Neptune conjunction.)

A partner for almost a decade (the one with whom I had progressed Moons in perpetual conjunction for years) had her d Moon perpetually conjunct my Ascendant.

woman with whom I had a fiercely physical relationship (on and off, out of state) for two or three years (two or three times a year) had her d Mars perpetually square my d Mars, her d Venus perpetually square my d Moon. (That's pretty good!)

My first wife is an interesting example. Our ages weren't too different, and nearly all the important aspects (her Moon square my Sun, her Venus-Jupiter opposite my Moon) were partile in the birth charts but "slipped" a couple of degrees by matching solar arcs. An exception is that her d Asc becomes exactly my d Venus (square Pluto), rather than the 2° it has in the natals.

My solar arcs to Anna-Kria's (the longest-term pairing of my life, across decades) has the perpetual mutual square of our Suns (already there in secondary progressions, of course) and adds her Venus to my Venus-Pluto. Accurate enough, of course, but not compelling.

A relationship that burned very hot for way too short of a time had only the perpetual aspect of her Uranus conjunct my MC. I suspect I've written similar words about Uranus-themed relationships in the past, so it might be fine enough, though it's not the main flavor of the relationship.

GENERAL CONCLUSIONS: A first impression is that these are uneven, not uniformly reliable but, on balance, quite solid. (For example, the few that had serious problems always had a complicating further factor that leaves open that they might be OK after all.) Most interesting to me is that - being life-long, more or less perpetual aspects, they might be more expressive in relationships that either endure for years, or at least for those we enter into with the possibility that they might endure for years.(Just a preliminary thought.)

[Jim Eshelman]

PS - Since these do change *(slowly) across the years), I thought I'd update Marion's and mine (which I examined above for many years ago). The aspects have indeed changed. (I picked the date of our pending wedding as an obvious date for "about now, this year.")

Most distinctive is that her directed Sun is now in partile orb of "perpetual" opposition to my directed Venus (0°40') and square my Pluto.

[SteveS]

Thanks Jim for your input. Until today I never heard of Solar Arc with synestry charts. Yes, I can see how they may offer info for certain long term relationships, interesting.

[SteveS]

There is an excellent book on Solar Arc Directing:

"Solar Arcs," Astrology's Most Successful Predictive System, by Noel Tyl

I read/studied this book many years ago, but it was before I had Solarfire with it's Solar Arc functions. I had forgotten about this book but reread it the last two days and highly recommend this book for astrologers interested in Solar Arc Directing. I will eventually get around to posting some of Noel's fine examples for our review.

[SteveS]

There are some astounding Solar Arc examples in Noel Tyl’s book ‘Solar Arcs.’
Here is one for Queen Victoria, Natal Chart link # 1: First note her Natal Jupiter at 24,42 Cap. Second note her MC at 7,31,42 Cap. On June 20, 1837 Victoria became Queen of England. Her Solar Arc Natal MC on the date she becomes Queen Solar Arcs to 24,47 Cap partile cnj her Natal Jupiter at 24,42 Cap. At the same time, punctuating this Solar Arc period, we have her Secondary Progressed Moon conjunct her Natal Midheaven. This is seen in the bi-wheel chart link # 2, inside wheel Secondary Progressed chart for the date of her crowning, outside wheel her Natal Chart showing her Natal MC at 7,32 Cap and her Secondary Progressed Moon at 7,50 Cap
1: https://imgur.com/a/r8PBdXT
2: https://imgur.com/a/2NKrjNo

Noel Tyl writes about this example:

From this example, we learn something very important about procedure and interpretation. Since we are working with a generalization of one degree = one year, our time orb for this Natal MC arc is one year. We then will see, time and time again, that the Secondary Progressed Moon can refine the specific time of arc manifestation (as it does here) and, above all, there will almost invariably be a major transit to trigger the symbolism of the Solar Arc.

We see in this example t. Jupiter 23,33 Can tightly opposed SA MC and Natal Jupiter.
Noel also states:

NOTE: in predictive astrology, there is nothing more important than the Angles of the natal horoscope. The Angles define our orientation to this life. It is safe to say that nothing vitally important in life development occurs without angular contact---or with the Sun or Moon. Angles are crucial.

[Jim Eshelman]

Here is one for Queen Victoria, Natal Chart link # 1: First note her Natal Jupiter at 24,42 Cap. Second note her MC at 7,31,42 Cap.

Queen Victoria, who was born at 4:15 AM, has natal MC 10°11' Capricorn, which means her solar arc MC was 27°30' Capricorn, about 3° past the Jupiter.

It;s not that she doesn't have solar arcs maturing, it's that she doesn't have that obvious, excellent one She does have:
d Asc op. r Uranus 0°07'
d Jupiter sq. r Moon 0°32'

[SteveS]

In Noel's Book he gives a birth time of 4:04 AM LMT for Victoria. Is he mistaken with this birth time?

[Jim Eshelman]

In Noel's Book he gives a birth time of 4:04 AM LMT for Victoria. Is he mistaken with this birth time?

Yes. Royal birth times are recorded with great precision and care. You can check it here:
https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Vi ... of_England

Regarding the time, Astro.com says: "Letter in hand from the Curator of the Court Dress Collection, Kensington Palace, Steinbrecher. Same from Alan Leo in Modern Astrology 8/1895; same in Sabian Symbols No.933; Sy Scholfield quotes same from official bulletin in "London Gazette, Kensington-Palace, May 24," The Times [London], 26 May 1819, p. 2."

[SteveS]

Thanks Jim, I now believe Noel must have used his own rectification. Members, please disregard my Queen Victoria post.

[Kerstin]

Hi,

I`ve been reading in that forum for quite a while and it`s been given me much food for thought.

When I read this here, I felt very compelled to register. What you mention here:

It's looking at solar arc to solar arc. This is theoretically really interesting, because (given age difference) it won't at all be the same as natal-to-natal but (for the most part) will stay exactly the same for life. (Each person's solar arc planets move at slightly different speeds, so some aspects may move in and out of orb across many years or decades, but mostly they will stay the same.) Just do the two solar arc charts for any event at all and compare them: the aspects will be more or less permanent.

I´ve been thinking of this for a few years, and called it for myself "synchronized solar arc". I am still researching it, but so far I`ve found it very interesting in

a) that it seemed to explain why some wider orbed aspects seemed to work far better than I would have expected them to (usually I found they were partile by solar arc synchronization) and

b) it seemed to really play a role and become evident if one person was having a solar direction becoming exact, like for example person A having solar arc Mars conjunct natal Pluto, and that solar arc Mars being squared by person B`s solar arc ASC. Of course this one is not for the faint at heart. lol But very transformative.

But I actually only have some random examples, so I wouldn´t claim this to be the ultimate truth, but interesting enough to keep checking charts, and being surprised again and again usually.

[SteveS]

Kerstin wrote:

I´ve been thinking of this for a few years, and called it for myself "synchronized solar arc". I am still researching it, but so far I`ve found it very interesting in
a) that it seemed to explain why some wider orbed aspects seemed to work far better than I would have expected them to (usually I found they were partile by solar arc synchronization) and
b) it seemed to really play a role and become evident if one person was having a solar direction becoming exact, like for example person A having solar arc Mars conjunct natal Pluto, and that solar arc Mars being squared by person B`s solar arc ASC. Of course this one is not for the faint at heart. lol But very transformative. But I actually only have some random examples, so I wouldn´t claim this to be the ultimate truth, but interesting enough to keep checking charts, and being surprised again and again usually.

Interesting Kerstin--thanks for your input-- and welcome to the forum. I have no experience with Solar Arc comparison charts and depend on Jim's judgments/insights with this issue. But be sure to keep us informed with your experiences/insights with Solar Arc comparisons/examples, particularly your named "synchronized solar arc". I do know many people on this forum are very interested in synastry charts.

[Jim Eshelman]

Steve, here's one of my favorite Solar Arc examples: John Kennedy for his assassination. He was on a lifelong collision course with 1963. Especially look at the two-way Mars-Pluto!

23°09' Taurus - r Venus
23°27' Leo - d Neptune
23°37' Leo - r Moon

14°15' Taurus - r Sun
14°33' Leo - d MC

9°13' Gemini - d Mars
9°41' Gemini - r Pluto

24°03' Cancer - d Pluto
24°50' Aries - r Mars

Let me show you a trick that Uranian astrologers use, that spread into Cosmobiology. One looks for partile hard aspects natally, then follows them to where double aspects are triggered by solar arcs. Kennedy had Mars-Pluto semi-square at his birth. You can use the "Difference Listing" report in Solar Fire to get all the distances between planet pairs, including that his Mars and Pluto are 44°50' apart (almost exactly a semi-square). When he is about 45 years old, Mars would move 45° up to conjoin Pluto, and Pluto (already 45° from his Mars) would move another 45° to where it is now 90° from his Mars - voila, double Mars-Pluto aspects igniting a natal Mars-Pluto aspect. (Kennedy's Solar Arc at death was 44°23'.)

You can add nuance to this using the Difference Listing report in Solar Fire - just using the Difference Listing on a 90° sort to "walk you through" what aspects will get triggered. Also near his solar arc of 44°23' at death, we have these natal arcs:

44°04' Neptune-Venus
44°04' Midheaven-Sun
44°32' Neptune-Moon

Notice how this captures all the solar arc aspects found above.

So, currently my progressed Sun is 64°40'. On the 90°-sorted Difference Listing, I see, within a degree of 64°40', the following:

64°29' Moon-Venus (11' sep.)
64°42' Moon-Pluto (2' ap.)
64°56' Sun-Moon (16' ap.)
65°07' Mercury-Sun (27' ap)

At 0°05' a month, without even calculating the chart, I can see that I had Venus to my Moon about 2 months ago (when Marion learned her divorce was final and we started planning the wedding), Moon to my Pluto almost exactly now, Sun to my Moon in about 3 months (this was used o pick the wedding date), and Mercury to my Sun in about 5 months. When you look at my solar arcs, you'll see these are all there - and we got all the conjunctions, oppositions, and squares just by looking at the 90° sort on planet differences.

Or, let's look at your chart. Currently your progressed Sun is 71°12' from your natal Sun. Looking at your Difference Listing (sorted on 90°), within 1° of this value I see one entry:

71°56' Mercury-Uranus

So, you are already feeling solar arc Mercury to your natal Uranus, which will be exact in 44' minutes, or about 9 months.

[Kerstin]

thank you for the welcome. I will keep on reading here (and keeping an eye on the solar arcs, too).

[SteveS]

, yes Jim, I see/understand everything in your post here. It is clearly obvious the right TIME has arrived astrologically with Solar Arc’s for you to marry your mate, Marion . And yes, right after you posted a couple of weeks ago about a Solar Arc aspect, it kick my mind into overdrive reminding me the importance of Solar Arcs, I had forgotten all about em with my retired mind being absorbed in Sidereal Astrology.

Jim wrote:

Or, let's look at your chart. Currently your progressed Sun is 71°12' from your natal Sun. Looking at your Difference Listing (sorted on 90°), within 1° of this value I see one entry: 71°56' Mercury-Uranus. So, you are already feeling solar arc Mercury to your natal Uranus, which will be exact in 44' minutes, or about 9 months.

Exactly Jim, and believe me right after you reminded me the importance of Solar Arcs a couple of weeks ago, I raced to my Solar Arc list and immediately saw that SA Mercury=NA Uranus influencing my being with its partile orb. Shortly afterward I calendared a possible major business dealing centered on this exact SA Mercury=NA Uranus in 2020. And as you can see with my recent posts about Solar Arcs with the Boyd Chart, this SA Mercury=Na Mercury is absolutely manifesting mentally in my life as a possible BIG BINGO relative to my primary life interest. Also, my Natal features that partile 90 Sun-Uranus which is a potential Paran with my Sun rising and Uranus culminating everyday of my life on a diurnal basis. Years ago, when I learned from you about potential Parans, I have always contributed this partile 90 Sun-Uranus potential Paran as being the primary aspect responsible for me never going a DAY without thinking about Sidereal Astrology, which fills my being with much Uranus excitement. Actually this SA Mercury will form a partile T-square with my Natal 90 Sun-Uranus in 2020, finally an important major SA aspect in my life my retired mind can get really excited about the future in 2020 with new personal learnings and other exciting mental stimulus. So, get ready for my barrage of posts/questions to you with questions offering me better mental clarity with your vast knowledge/experience with Sidereal Astrology.

[Arena]

Jim said:

Most distinctive is that her directed Sun is now in partile orb of "perpetual" opposition to my directed Venus (0°40') and square my Pluto.

There is actually someone called Paul Westran who has done research about progressions and his findings are in line with what you said, his book is all about Sun - Venus. Progressed to progressed and progressed to natal. His research reveals that the effective orb is 2-2.5°. I know the solar arcs will be different, but his book is very interesting.

I have his book. It is a study of 1300 celebrity and historical relationships, backed with details and charts. Here is the book
https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/ ... edir_esc=y

[Arena]

I am just now checking my directed chart to my partner when we met back in March 2007. Although I am not married to him, he is the longest lasting relationship I've had in my life.

At the time we met looking at dir to dir charts (for my bt being 23.40).
His d Moon partile quinc my d Jup
My d Moon is on the midpoint opp his d Mars&Uranus.
My d Venus partile sextile his d Venus and within 2 from trine his d Jup.
His d Venus partile trine my d Jup.
My d. Mars partile sq his d Uranus.
His d Mars quinc and his d Pluto trine my d Saturn

Other observations:
His d. Venus within 2° from my n. Pluto and his d ASC within 3°.
His d Moon partile sq my n. Neptune.
His d Sun partile my n. Uranus (we moved to Slovenia 6 months after meeting).
His d Mer partile sq my n. Sun.
His d Jup conj. my n. Nep.
- his Pluto comes to my d Uranus and partile sq my n. Mer at the time.
My d Saturn sq his n. Saturn
My d Mer on his n. Sun
IF my bt is 23.40 then his d. MC lines up with my ASC, his d ASC and Sun line up with my rel. WP (Rvk) my d ASC lines up partile to his n. Moon and his d. Nep is on my MC when we met.
IF my bt is 23.18 then his d. Sun would be within minutes from my n. EP and his d Nodes on my ASC as well as his d Pluto on my d WP when we met ).

[Jim Eshelman]

When Diana married Charles in the world's dream wedding of its day and elevated to royalty, her partile Solar Arc directions, from closest on, were:

d Jupiter sq. r Venus 0°09'
t Mercury sq. r MC 0°42'
d Jupiter conj. r Moon 0°47'
d Jupiter op. r Uranus 0°55'
d Sun op. r Saturn 1°00' [separating: it was the week the progression/direction ended]

For her death, she had only wider ones, though accurate:

d Saturn op. r Mars 0°42'
d Mercury sq. r Neptune 0°54'
d Pluto sq. r Sun 0°55'

[SteveS]

A link offering some good info about Solar Arc Directions.

https://hniizato.com/solar-arc-vs-secon ... ogression/

[SteveS]

Calculations are made for the birthplace (in Secondary Progressions, Solar Arcs, and Tertiaries). But geography plays no role. pg. 18 footnoted by Noel Tyl, 'Solar Arcs.

[SteveS]

In 2004, Terry Melcher, Doris Day Son died of Melanoma.

Doris Day: April 3 1922, 4:30 PM, Cincinnati, Ohio. AA rated

SA Pluto 90 NA Moon, Feb 24 2004

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Melcher

[SteveS]

This mourning I was reflecting on some few past Solar Arcs (SA) angular contacts with my Natal, approaching 72 years of age.

…it is safe to say that nothing vitally important in life development occurs without angular contact—or with the Sun and Moon. Angles are crucial. Noel Tyl from his book ‘Solar Arcs—Astrology’s Most Successful Predictive System.’

It was always my sole life dream to own my Theater. On Oct 31, 1987, I legally became a small Independent Theater owner, the happiest day in my entire life. Here are my Solar Arcs involving Natal Angles when my sole dream came true.

SA MC conjunct r. Neptune, Exact Nov. 27 1987
SA ASC 90 r. Venus, Exact Oct. 27 1987
SA MC 90 r. Vertex, Exact Jan 16 1988
SA Mercury cnj r. Jupiter, Exact Oct 29 1987 (for Fortunate Jupiter--Mercury Business).

All of the above SA angular contacts are once in a lifetime angular contacts.

There is no doubt in my mind Ebertin was correct in saying: Solar Arcs are “Co-Determinants of Fate,” particularly involving our primary Natal Angles.

[Veronica]

Steve
Did you know about SA back then or just following your bliss?