Friend's Chart

[sotonye]

I've posted about this friend in the synastry section before since she was spending time visiting me then, but she has since gone back to the Netherlands where she was born and I have a few questions about her chart. In general, her chart seems mostly benefic dominant, with Uranus being angular, her Moon in Libra closely aspected by Venus (0°43), and her Sun conjunct Jupiter a bit over 3°. Since she has been away she has been subsumed by deep mental illness and is currently staying in a crisis center, she has been in this center many times before. I don't see anything in her chart pointing to such severe mental health. She has several octiles from Saturn, one to her Jupiter at 1°25, and one to her Sun at 1°57, but I can't see these as being the culprits. But maybe there's some possibility. This is deeply bothering me that I don't know what's wrong. She feels like living is impossible and I don't understand the chart dynamics here, they're usually so clear, it's always either Saturn or Neptune

Here is her info:

February 18, 1998
11:53 pm

Tiel, Netherlands

[Jim Eshelman]

You don't say what kind of mental illness - what diagnosis - but we can run with this for now. You also don't say whether something happened - a triggering event - which could be important. Finally (probably because you want to look at this primarily from the point of view of her natal chart, you didn't say when this happened/began.

But the key probably isn't mostly in the natal chart at all except in this one sense: The downside of a fundamentally benefic-laced natal chart is that these people, who are "made for good, kind times," often don't do well in bad times. Moon in Libra aspecting Venus, Uranus angular, and, especially, Sun conjunct Jupiter. Moon-Venus, at least, is usually a protection against suicide (perhaps for social-connection reasons) but Sun-Jupiter is fairly common for suicide (probably because it seems unprepared for adversity).

BTW, we all have a mode - an extreme, "outside normal" expression of what we are - that, IF we develop mental illness will usually reflect WHAT KIND of mental illness. Based on work in the 1980s by Dr. Eysenck in England, Aquarius is one of the two signs most likely to be schizophrenic (though most Aquarians are not schiophrenic). As another example, were I to go too far around the bend I'd probably develop an obsessive-compulsive disorder.

Her Venus has been pummeled by transits of Pluto and now Saturn (or, at least, Saturn is close enough if it happens to fall angular on return chart). This month, her progressed Moon squares Pluto, so her psyche is open to some high-impact interpretation or circumstances. (Again, knowing what happened to trigger this would make it easier to know what of this is relevant, but the Moon-Pluto progressed square at least shows some psychological blow or shift.) Her current Solar Return for Netherlands (using birthplace, for lack of a more exact location) has natal Saturn rising and her February 25 Lunar Return for there has natal Saturn really closely rising, half a degree from square to transiting Saturn - Saturn-Saturn on the angles.

So, my best estimate is that a kind, lovely person who is ill-equipped to handle adversity got some adversity. In a month that was destined to have some kind of psychological shift, eruption, or high-impact experience, in a year when her Saturn was more emphasized, she hit a month when double-Saturn clubbed her very hard (probably felt more strongly because of the Moon-Pluto progression). The positive spin is that the Saturn-Saturn transit and Moon-Pluto progression are well suited for self-assessment and reconsidering one's life-direction and choices, etc., and both are supportive of her more isolated, retreat-like setting.

The following brings out things you can't see easily from an ecliptical glance at the SLR:

21°49' Pis - SLR Asc
22°20' Pis - r Saturn
22°25' Sag - SLR t Saturn

r Saturn 2°25' below Asc
t Uranus 4°07' below Asc
t Mars 5°23' below Asc
r Mars 6°16' above Asc
t Mercury 6°52' above Asc
t Neptune 7°11' above Asc

[FlorencedeZ.]

Birth chart in Tiel:
Her Moon and Neptune are also angular.
Uranus is a bit wide from the IC but she has a Stellium in Uranus.

Neptune sq.AC 2*20'
Moon conj. EP 2*30'
Uranus conj. IC 5*29' (in mundo)

[Jim Eshelman]

Agreed mostly.

Moon on EP should be taken in right ascension, so it's orb is nearly 4° (3°52'); but Neptune is 2°21' from square Asc.

Neptune is a little wide, but is part of the picture, giving such things as great sensitivity. Anything past 2° on those angles is in the "pretty wide" category, but still valid up to 3°.

[FlorencedeZ.]

Agreed mostly.

Moon on EP should be taken in right ascension, so it's orb is nearly 4° (3°52');

I did Jim.
And it's orb is within 3°(2*30')
I have noticed my Solar Fire is slightly off compared to yours.
Do you know a way to reset or is there a way to find out how this could be?

[SteveS]

According to Robert Hand’s guidelines for Midpoint structures in a Natal Chart, without a doubt, the most potent Midpoint in her Natal is a Direct Midpoint of Sun/Neptune=MC (O,31). Why? Because it involves a Light (Sun) and an Angle (MC) and the midpoint is partile. In Ebertin’s book COSI, this very important Natal midpoint structure of Sun/Neptune=MC (0,31) reads:

Being sensitive, weak, ill or impressionable. – A negative outlook. –Periods of depression, hyper—sensitiveness or mental and emotional stress.

[sotonye]

You don't say what kind of mental illness - what diagnosis - but we can run with this for now.

She has been diagnosed with bulimia and manic-depression, she suffers from suicidal ideation as well.

You also don't say whether something happened - a triggering event - which could be important.

When she was younger her father would rape her, I'm not certain when this began

Finally (probably because you want to look at this primarily from the point of view of her natal chart, you didn't say when this happened/began.

She has had mental health issues for the majority of her life, I'm uncertain what set her off on this ocassion, but it usually doesn't take much, she can lapse into a mental health episode just by being looked at by strangers. She's boundlessly sensitive and can't help falling to tears at every event

But the key probably isn't mostly in the natal chart at all except in this one sense: The downside of a fundamentally benefic-laced natal chart is that these people, who are "made for good, kind times," often don't do well in bad times.

We've spoken about this before and I think this is right, she's much more sensitive to both the bad and good than anyone, I think having so many planets in Aquarius might also cause her to be more highly strong than average now that I think about it

Moon in Libra aspecting Venus, Uranus angular, and, especially, Sun conjunct Jupiter. Moon-Venus, at least, is usually a protection against suicide (perhaps for social-connection reasons) but Sun-Jupiter is fairly common for suicide (probably because it seems unprepared for adversity).

Suicide is a huge theme in her life and I hate the way she talks about it, as if it'd be nothing to cast her life away. And her being unprepared for adversity is becoming much more clear to me now, just considering how she is hm

BTW, we all have a mode - an extreme, "outside normal" expression of what we are - that, IF we develop mental illness will usually reflect WHAT KIND of mental illness. Based on work in the 1980s by Dr. Eysenck in England, Aquarius is one of the two signs most likely to be schizophrenic (though most Aquarians are not schiophrenic). As another example, were I to go too far around the bend I'd probably develop an obsessive-compulsive disorder.

I wonder if bulimia can be classified under obsessive-compulsive, it has been a big problem

Her Venus has been pummeled by transits of Pluto and now Saturn (or, at least, Saturn is close enough if it happens to fall angular on return chart). This month, her progressed Moon squares Pluto, so her psyche is open to some high-impact interpretation or circumstances. (Again, knowing what happened to trigger this would make it easier to know what of this is relevant, but the Moon-Pluto progressed square at least shows some psychological blow or shift.)

In November a friend she had jumped in front of a train, and in suspecting that she has been grappling with this since, and for some reason this has been affecting her deeply now

Her current Solar Return for Netherlands (using birthplace, for lack of a more exact location) has natal Saturn rising and her February 25 Lunar Return for there has natal Saturn really closely rising, half a degree from square to transiting Saturn - Saturn-Saturn on the angles.

Her birth place is only about 20mins from wheres she's living now, I don't remember the exact name of the town, it was extremekg Dutch. At any rate this sounds completely terrible. I would like to protect her from Saturn. I told her to move to Poland where her Jupiter would be angular

So, my best estimate is that a kind, lovely person who is ill-equipped to handle adversity got some adversity. In a month that was destined to have some kind of psychological shift, eruption, or high-impact experience, in a year when her Saturn was more emphasized, she hit a month when double-Saturn clubbed her very hard (probably felt more strongly because of the Moon-Pluto progression).

This makes sense, thank you Mr. E, i know she'll always be sensitive, but at least I know now that this exceptionally hard time for her will pass, and it's good that she's in a place where she can't harm herself

The positive spin is that the Saturn-Saturn transit and Moon-Pluto progression are well suited for self-assessment and reconsidering one's life-direction and choices, etc., and both are supportive of her more isolated, retreat-like setting.

This describes exactly where she is now, she sent me pictures and the place is really nice and peaceful

The following brings out things you can't see easily from an ecliptical glance at the SLR:

21°49' Pis - SLR Asc
22°20' Pis - r Saturn
22°25' Sag - SLR t Saturn

r Saturn 2°25' below Asc
t Uranus 4°07' below Asc
t Mars 5°23' below Asc
r Mars 6°16' above Asc
t Mercury 6°52' above Asc
t Neptune 7°11' above Asc

This is an extremely difficult month, I'm going to share this with her as I think it'll make her feel more in control of her situation

[sotonye]

According to Robert Hand’s guidelines for Midpoint structures in a Natal Chart, without a doubt, the most potent Midpoint in her Natal is a Direct Midpoint of Sun/Neptune=MC (O,31). Why? Because it involves a Light (Sun) and an Angle (MC) and the midpoint is partile. In Ebertin’s book COSI, this very important Natal midpoint structure of Sun/Neptune=MC (0,31) reads:

Being sensitive, weak, ill or impressionable. – A negative outlook. –Periods of depression, hyper—sensitiveness or mental and emotional stress.

Thank you for your input Steve, I'm going to have to look more into midpoints

[Jim Eshelman]

Bulimia nervosa is primarily a binge-eating condition attached to pathogical vanity. It seems to me, in theory, to be a Jupiter + Venus disorder, though i have no data to support that.

[sotonye]

Bulimia nervosa is primarily a binge-eating condition attached to pathogical vanity. It seems to me, in theory, to be a Jupiter + Venus disorder, though i have no data to support that.

That makes sense, and now that I think about it, the three girls I know with eating disorders all have hard/close Sun-Jupiter configurations, they have intense vanity concerns

[FlorencedeZ.]

Agreed mostly.

Moon on EP should be taken in right ascension, so it's orb is nearly 4° (3°52');

I did Jim.
And it's orb is within 3°(2*30')
I have noticed my Solar Fire is slightly off compared to yours.
Do you know a way to reset or is there a way to find out how this could be?

Problem solved
I initially calculated the Moon's orb from the EP using the natal chart measuring the orb ecliptically.
After adjusting to Z-analogue RA, I got the same 3°52' like you.

[riodejaneiro]

Hello sotonye,
in your Friend's chart: I see Uranus in 3rd house as marking mental-illness, meaning a probable occultistic-lucky thinking mode in her brain.
Her mind is very important to her, as Venus in the 3rd house suggests.
Furthermore, Saturn in the 6th house can be a pusher for being illness-sick.

The rest of her chart is good.