My Moon-Jup Aspect structure

[sotonye]

We've discussed previously about how soft aspects modify and contextualize hard ones and create something a bit different, and I'm wondering how the soft aspects given by my Venus to my Jupiter and Moon modify the opposition they make with one another. The reason why I'm thinking about this now is because, when I think about my chart, I think about it and sum it all up mostly in terms of Moon-Jupiter and its themes, but given the additional aspects, I'm beginning to think this mode of interpretation is largely incorrect, that the expression of the opposition is not so straightforward. I keep forgetting that the Moon-Jupiter aspect does not exist in a vacuum, and I'm wondering how Venus might change the way I interpret it all

[Jim Eshelman]

As a simple example, we might simply say that Venus socializes the Moon-Jupiter - shows in operating in social, affectionate, enjoyable, playful contexts. - This needn't be complicated or ponderous, it's pretty straightforward.

First, let's remember that your chart has a similar quality even without the aspect. Jupiter opposite a Taurus Moon is substantially like Venus & Jupiter modifying Moon. But an actual aspect (and a partile one at that) adds more energy to the picture. Also, Moon-Jupiter, Moon-Venus, and Venus-Jupiter have commonalities, e.g., the broad picture is that your Moon is benefically aspected. The whole cluster i a "social cluster" in your wiring.

By itself, Moon sextile Venus generally means: Attractive, charming, affectionate, sexual charisma, sensual. Passive-dependent, moody, can be blindsided by strong feelings, often preoccupied with whether they are liked.

By itself, Venus trine Jupiter generally means: Warm, friendly, giving, hospitable, popular. Desires positive attention & appreciation (usually gets it). At home in comfort. Unusual luck opens doors. Inclined to indulgence or extravagance. A little “spoiled.”

These overlap quite a bit, and the focus is primarily in the social-connecting field. Consider, in contrast, if you had your Moon-Jupiter opposition trine-sextile Mars. The focus and spin would be very different!

PS - In writing this, for the sake of making the above as clear as I can, I'm intentionally ignoring the other gigantic complexity: Your Moon-Jupiter also has close, angular, hard aspect to Pluto in mundo, with Moon opposite Pluto 2°14' and Jupiter conjunct Pluto 0°49'.

[SteveS]

Sotonye wrote:

The reason why I'm thinking about this now is because, when I think about my chart, I think about it and sum it all up mostly in terms of Moon-Jupiter and its themes, but given the additional aspects, I'm beginning to think this mode of interpretation is largely incorrect, that the expression of the opposition is not so straightforward.

Sotonye, first, glad to see back from your latest visit to the hospital. Your angular Natal Moon-Jupiter 180 is only part of the ‘structures’ in your Natal Chart. I suggest you start exploring your ‘Direct’ Midpoints, particularly the ones involving your Natal lights and angles. First, you will need to purchase the book “Combinations of Stellar Influences” by Reinhold Ebertin. This book will help you see/feel other Natal Tones involving direct midpoints you in your Natal Chart. Second you will need to learn how to navigate your Solar Fire program in order to identify these Direct Midpoints. Here are some SF directions for navigating your Natal Midpoints:

1: Double left click your Natal Chart under ‘Calculated Charts.’
2: Then click on ‘Reports’ with the other options on right hand side of page.
3: Then scroll down and select ‘Midpoint Trees.’ This will give you a page for your entire Natal Midpoint Structure.
4: Under ‘Orb’ on right hand side of page type in 1,30. This is the orb Ebertin used in his Midpoint work.
5: Next, look at your midpoints with ‘d’ next to your natal midpoints. This identifies your Direct Natal Midpoints.
6: Next—identify your most important ‘Direct’ Midpoints involving your lights and angles. For example: Find the grouping’s of midpoints with “Sun” at the top of the groupings and note you have a Mars/Uranus=Sun 1,09 orb, and it has a ‘d’ besides this Mars/Uranus. You have now identified a most important Direct Midpoint ‘structure’ in your Natal Chart involving your Sun. Then you can take Ebertin’s book ‘Combination of Stellar Influences and read about the Natal “TONE” for Mars/Uranus = Sun.

Sotonye, I suspect with the Partile cnj of Mercury-Neptune (Mercury Station) these last few days at 21 Aqu partile cnj your Natal Zenith, this aspect has somewhat confused certain issues about your Natal Chart and its structures, causing certain issues in your Natal Scope to not be 'straightforward.' It will take some time, but I think if you start exploring your Direct Midpoints you will become more aware (conscious) of a lot more hidden planetary ‘structures’ into your Natal being. Hope this eventually helps you in your studies.

[sotonye]

As a simple example, we might simply say that Venus socializes the Moon-Jupiter - shows in operating in social, affectionate, enjoyable, playful contexts. - This needn't be complicated or ponderous, it's pretty straightforward.

Well that explains a lot, I'm not sure if I've said it before on here but I've been told that I'm only really ambitious in matters of love (which hurt my feelings and immediately inspired me to look into running for public office). I wish I was more Moon-Jupiter-like in non-Venus contexts instead of living like one who only lives for love, I've been very embarrassed about this recently. At any rate, thank you Mr. E, this is very straightforward and improves my understanding tremendously

First, let's remember that your chart has a similar quality even without the aspect. Jupiter opposite a Taurus Moon is substantially like Venus & Jupiter modifying Moon. But an actual aspect (and a partile one at that) adds more energy to the picture. Also, Moon-Jupiter, Moon-Venus, and Venus-Jupiter have commonalities, e.g., the broad picture is that your Moon is benefically aspected. The whole cluster i a "social cluster" in your wiring.

This is the stangest thing, my chart is doing the same thing in three different ways? This is massive overkill I think, but at the same time I feel that this is necessary to compensate for being an Aries, which is hard and not friendly like all the Aquarius people I attract

By itself, Moon sextile Venus generally means: Attractive, charming, affectionate, sexual charisma, sensual. Passive-dependent, moody, can be blindsided by strong feelings, often preoccupied with whether they are liked.

By itself, Venus trine Jupiter generally means: Warm, friendly, giving, hospitable, popular. Desires positive attention & appreciation (usually gets it). At home in comfort. Unusual luck opens doors. Inclined to indulgence or extravagance. A little “spoiled.”

These overlap quite a bit, and the focus is primarily in the social-connecting field. Consider, in contrast, if you had your Moon-Jupiter opposition trine-sextile Mars. The focus and spin would be very different!

You have Moon-Mars and Venus-Jupiter hmm, what does this feel like?

PS - In writing this, for the sake of making the above as clear as I can, I'm intentionally ignoring the other gigantic complexity: Your Moon-Jupiter also has close, angular, hard aspect to Pluto in mundo, with Moon opposite Pluto 2°14' and Jupiter conjunct Pluto 0°49'.

How potent are mundane aspects relative to ecliptic ones again? I feel like you'll say they're about the same

[sotonye]

Sotonye, first, glad to see back from your latest visit to the hospital.

Hey Steve, thank you very much I appreciate you

Your angular Natal Moon-Jupiter 180 is only part of the ‘structures’ in your Natal Chart. I suggest you start exploring your ‘Direct’ Midpoints, particularly the ones involving your Natal lights and angles. First, you will need to purchase the book “Combinations of Stellar Influences” by Reinhold Ebertin. This book will help you see/feel other Natal Tones involving direct midpoints you in your Natal Chart.

I'll look into my midpoints! The only reason why I haven't is because I'm scared about what I'll find lol. Also I've been using Ebertin's book for a while now incorrectly as an interpretations resource for aspects, but at the same time the book seems valid in this way. Is it appropriate to use the C.O.S.I for aspects?

Second you will need to learn how to navigate your Solar Fire program in order to identify these Direct Midpoints. Here are some SF directions for navigating your Natal Midpoints:

1: Double left click your Natal Chart under ‘Calculated Charts.’
2: Then click on ‘Reports’ with the other options on right hand side of page.
3: Then scroll down and select ‘Midpoint Trees.’ This will give you a page for your entire Natal Midpoint Structure.
4: Under ‘Orb’ on right hand side of page type in 1,30. This is the orb Ebertin used in his Midpoint work.
5: Next, look at your midpoints with ‘d’ next to your natal midpoints. This identifies your Direct Natal Midpoints.
6: Next—identify your most important ‘Direct’ Midpoints involving your lights and angles. For example: Find the grouping’s of midpoints with “Sun” at the top of the groupings and note you have a Mars/Uranus=Sun 1,09 orb, and it has a ‘d’ besides this Mars/Uranus. You have now identified a most important Direct Midpoint ‘structure’ in your Natal Chart involving your Sun. Then you can take Ebertin’s book ‘Combination of Stellar Influences and read about the Natal “TONE” for Mars/Uranus = Sun.

Thank you for laying out this guide Steve, you have done an important and valuable thing for everyone here and I hope everyone sees it

Sotonye, I suspect with the Partile cnj of Mercury-Neptune (Mercury Station) these last few days at 21 Aqu partile cnj your Natal Zenith, this aspect has somewhat confused certain issues about your Natal Chart and its structures, causing certain issues in your Natal Scope to not be 'straightforward.' It will take some time, but I think if you start exploring your Direct Midpoints you will become more aware (conscious) of a lot more hidden planetary ‘structures’ into your Natal being. Hope this eventually helps you in your studies.

I've also got Mercury partile conjunct Neptune in the foreground of my Demi-SLR, very interesting and confused and specter filled times. And naturally Steve I trust your word and will pursue this area of study diligently, I will most likely report back with some questions in a few days

[Jim Eshelman]

You have Moon-Mars and Venus-Jupiter hmm, what does this feel like?

There's no inherent contradiction between being a clever, agitating, setting off small fires AND maintaining social connection. They're just two things happening at the same time. (One can't separate Venus-Jupiter from Venus-Uranus, though, and certainly not from Venus-Pluto.)

PS - In writing this, for the sake of making the above as clear as I can, I'm intentionally ignoring the other gigantic complexity: Your Moon-Jupiter also has close, angular, hard aspect to Pluto in mundo, with Moon opposite Pluto 2°14' and Jupiter conjunct Pluto 0°49'.

How potent are mundane aspects relative to ecliptic ones again? I feel like you'll say they're about the same

The better answer is that we don't know. It hasn't been well determined. However, the picture is much clearer when the hard aspects are as angular in your case. Suppose, for a moment, that there were no such thing as mundane aspects but you had Moon 1° from Asc, Jupiter 0° from Dsc, and Pluto 1° from Dsc. There's no way these three, tightly-angular planets wouldn't be working together in some collaborative, co-angularity sense.

I think it likely safe to think that there is some independent value to mundane aspects in natal charts (from the clues we have). In mundane charts, they are interchangeable - no difference. In natals, there are circumstantial reasons that make them seem less so but, when comparable foreground, I'm sure they're operative under one theory or another.

[SteveS]

Sotonye asked:

Is it appropriate to use the C.O.S.I for aspects?

IMO, C.O.S.I is appropriate to use in all phases of your life as possible important astrological tones for you life. C.O.S.I has helped me greatly in navigating my astrological life. Some of the Pluto delineations may be suspect, but still the book is a must for any astrologer's book shelf, imo.

[sotonye]

There's no inherent contradiction between being a clever, agitating, setting off small fires AND maintaining social connection.

That's definitely true, generally every interaction is fraught with fire id say, and so it isn't unusual for Moon-Mars to start them and still get along well

They're just two things happening at the same time. (One can't separate Venus-Jupiter from Venus-Uranus, though, and certainly not from Venus-Pluto.)

And you've got a lot of Venus going on Mr. E, this makes me wonder about something. I have a tendency toward polyamory, i like being with a lot of girls at the same time i think it's fun, but I don't have Venus-Uranus or Venus-Pluto and I think those things are more associated with all of that yes?

The better answer is that we don't know. It hasn't been well determined. However, the picture is much clearer when the hard aspects are as angular in your case. Suppose, for a moment, that there were no such thing as mundane aspects but you had Moon 1° from Asc, Jupiter 0° from Dsc, and Pluto 1° from Dsc. There's no way these three, tightly-angular planets wouldn't be working together in some collaborative, co-angularity sense.

This also makes me think of something I had been wondering. Is there such a thing as concurrent angularity in the natal? The interps for solunar returns almost have it seem like co-angular planets produce joint symbolism

I think it likely safe to think that there is some independent value to mundane aspects in natal charts (from the clues we have). In mundane charts, they are interchangeable - no difference. In natals, there are circumstantial reasons that make them seem less so but, when comparable foreground, I'm sure they're operative under one theory or another.

And I see okay thank you very much

[sotonye]

IMO, C.O.S.I is appropriate to use in all phases of your life as possible important astrological tones for you life. C.O.S.I has helped me greatly in navigating my astrological life. Some of the Pluto delineations may be suspect, but still the book is a must for any astrologer's book shelf, imo.

Thank you for your input on this, I feel the exact same way, Ebertin seems unusually spot on for most interpretations. And yes I agree about the Pluto, Mr. E has mentioned this before and since then I don't give them much weight!

[sotonye]

Just saw that I have a Moon/Venus=Sun midpoint conjunction at 1°16', I have no idea if this has any effect on my life or personality but I like anything involving the Moon and her sister :,)

Mars/Uranus=Sun at 1°08' seems nice too but again I'm not sure how strong these influences are

[SteveS]

Yes, these two direct midpoints reflect a cosmic structure of your natal Sun and will psychologically work in subtle ways-- '(very fine mental distinctions)'. Probably as your life progresses you will be able to see/understand more of these 'distinctions' operating in your life involving these midpoints with your Sun. UR/MC = SUN 1,05 and NEP/MC =SUN 1,22 are also part of the midpoint cosmic structure for your Sun, although not direct midpoints. With the important Moon/Venus direct midpoint to your Sun involving both lights-- I would think a lot to do in life involving relationships with women, but blended with Mars, Uranus, and some Neptune--not a bad blend. Read COSI involving these 4 midpoints with your Sun and you will probably be able to detect more probable manifestations about your life.

[Jim Eshelman]

I think they are both too wide to be of much use, if any use at all. Their interpretation is simple enough, though: since they both aspects son, the planet pairs of each midpoint act like an aspect equated to your identity, the Moon- Venus as if they were natal aspect, which of course it's just another way of saying your moon and Taurus etc.