Friend's Chart

[[V]]

Can someone take a stab at this chart?
3:11 pm, Feb 15, 1990
Santa Monica California

Thank you!

[Jim Eshelman]

Hi, V, hope all is going well for you...

Male or female?

Currently living where?

Anything specific you want to know?

(I'm doing a preliminary workup, but the above would help.)

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

nothing angular, only Mercury foreground. not doing a mundoscope at this point.

Sun 02Aqu24:23
trine Jupiter by about 4°

Moon 12Lib38:47
sextile Uranus 1°
square Mercury 2°

square MC 4° too far to be on the westpoint

Venus 27Sag25:28
conj Saturn 1°
conj the Descendent by 6°
square the MC by 6°
putting Saturn square the MC by 5°

not finished.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Oh, nevermind. You'll get more useful info from Jim.
I'm going to go finish mowing.

[Jim Eshelman]

Here is a preliminary collection of notes on the chart, more or less organized to highlight the most outstanding characteristics first. I'll come back and add a few remarks to tie it together.

ANGULAR PLANETS
Angular Neptune (WP 0°14')
Sensitive, vulnerable, feels strongly (tunes into others deeply, not always accurately; feels exposed, over-response). Naturally absorbs & mirrors others’ traits. Sympathy, compassion, empathy (or emotional drama, insecurity, easily hooked, betrayed). Lives in own reality, tenacious with their viewpoint, impervious to logic, passionate about what uniquely frames their view (forges perception of the actual from their concept of the ideal). Favors complexity over simplicity. Dwells within the unknown, choosing mystery over revelation.

Mars conjunct Neptune (1°03')
Obsessive, concentrated, with enormous psychic power to fascinate and move minds and reality, in a thriving life of high drama. Requires rapid conformity of reality to wants (usually gets it); surges into temptation; impatient with frustrated gratification, yet often can mobilize great stamina for long-term vision. Imagination and emotion are supercharged; thrives in conditions of stirred passion. Zealous enthusiasm for interests and convictions. Can compel a nearly religious following, as if by pure will (can be manipulative). Aggressions can be dramatic; unresolved anger patterns trigger in response to frustrations. High IQ. Sexually magnetic yet wrestles with sexual demons and doubts. (This aspect is most comprehensively expressed by high dopamine levels and dopamine-driven behavior.)

Sun octile Mars (0°35')
Action, drive, accomplishment, courage. Restless, forthright, (perhaps hasty, impatient, temperamental). Physical aggression, strong sexual needs. Industrious, instinctive leader.

Sun octile Neptune (1°37')
Unrealistic self-view. Air of secrecy or mystery. Loves drama, music, fantasy, mysticism, surrealism. Active imagination. Can move & inspire others if they gain focus & perseverance. Sensitive to impressions; exaggerates the feeling tone of a time & place.

Uranus conjunct Neptune (5°23')
Wanderlust, curious explorer, drawn to peer past horizons. Mythic, ritualistic sense of one’s position in the universal scheme. Knows that life and reality are weirder than anyone ever said. High-strung, sensitive.

Angular Venus (2°17')
Charming, attractive, popular. Friendly, amiable, gracious. Kind, considerate, benevolent. Flirtatious, affectionate (sexually more receptive than aggressive). Loving, care-taking, mothering. Drawn to beauty, pleasure, peace, tranquility (not pain, violence, turbulence); averse to cruelty & harm. Needs to experience pleasure & beauty; requires harmony & ease (reduced stress & friction).

Venus conjunct Saturn (1°11')
Work, duty, and devotion give especial pleasure. Various restrictions (even hardships) in love. Work (with an eye to service) is inherently gratifying; ordinary pleasures may be delayed or sacrificed for responsibilities. Many seem comfortable alone (unpartnered), though there is rarely any sexual restraint (often quite the opposite). Childhood hardship or deprivation often exists (physical or emotional) that shapes adult patterns; many move far from their birthplace to restart their lives. Sober, responsible. Willing to pragmatically sacrifice (even sellout) whatever they need to, for something more important to them.

MOON
Moon in Libra
Attractive, magnetic, charm (easily draws lovers). “Looking good” opens doors. Tease (self & others): entice, deny, gratify. Peace (courtesy, compromise); wants peaceful surroundings. Justice (righting wrongs). Determined, persists, passionate, shrewd. Emotionally efficient. Private; slow at self-disclosure. Independent, self-sufficient.

Moon square Mercury (1°49')
Intellect fused with the emotions, especially with subconscious patterns; thus, quick at assessment, intuitive, strategic (cagey, deceptive). Personality dominated by intellect & nervous system. Tremendous mental output & capacity to absorb knowledge (apt at languages, good memory). Can seem ‘all business’ in emotional matters & emotionally stubborn in factual ones: Under duress, “reasonableness” competes with reactive emotion.

Moon sextile Uranus (1°00')
Intellectually rebellious, roving, curious, inquiring. Not wholly comfortable with outside guidance. Original, futuristic, needing variety. Free-spirited: psychologically lives outside convention. Subject to tensions, emotional stress.

SUN
Sun in Aquarius
Unconventional, provocative, controversial. Scientific, analytic, inventive, pragmatic. Broad interests. Ignores race, class, rank. Truthful, altruistic, helping. Understands people. Solitude, alienation, undemonstrative. Haughty, unapologetic, but rarely pretentious. May not understand time.

STELLIUM
Sagittarius Stellium
SAGITTARIUS FAVORS social elitism, aristocracy, excellence, & quality. Ambitious, aspiring. Judges self & others. Belief- & values-driven. Respects cultural continuity & social rituals. Preserves status quo, heritage, myth when possible. Loyal to tribe.

MARS, MERCURY, VENUS
Mars in Sagittarius
Idealist (not necessarily pragmatic). Serious about subjects of interest: sincere, devoted, studious (seems hardworking; it’s really love or zeal). Passionate with beliefs; moral courage; persuasive. Innovative, ambitious, strategic. Thrives in classic styles. Many exude air of mystery or fantasy (branding?). Many are identified with ideologies, -ists, & -isms.

Mercury in Capricorn
A quiet (playfully perverse) pride in their disagreeable opinions & autonomous thinking. Enjoys shock value of spouting unusual ideas. Mind inquisitive, enthusiastic, with a sense of the macabre. Resists being convinced. Careful, methodical, orders information effectively.

Venus in Sagittarius
Idealist; committed to vision of world as they feel it should be. Values friendship (sees it as ennobling, honoring). Expects reliable friends (returns the same). Great need to be liked, accepted (nearly always is) & to bring value to a friendship. Warm, sociable, welcoming. Loves fun. Zealous & generous lovers. Needs affection openly declared: dislikes guessing.

JUPITER & SATURN
Jupiter octile Pluto (1°51')
Thrives being controversial within their circles. Strong desire to contribute. Unbound by precedent. Social outlier unapologetically genuine while committed to group. Controversial, rebels against standards. Wants “to be something.” Self-improvement indifferent to the rules. Success fluctuates, may not last.

Saturn sextile Pluto (3°03')
“Runs their own show,” needs autonomy, makes up own rules. Lone wolf: solitary path is more natural; partnership requires more effort. Stubborn, tenacious (entrenched, defiant). Hard-working, responsible. Takes everything on own shoulder (vulnerable to burn-out).

[Jim Eshelman]

At first impression, the chart presents as gracious, kindly, interesting, charismatic. However, this isn't the main story that emerges on digging deeper. This is a potentially troubled individual with a fair bit of social misfit.

We get hints of this even in the luminary signs, though these could go in different ways. Double-"Air" can be socially withdrawn or, rather, abstracted from other people's experience, even though the Libra Moon is naturally charming and the Aquarius Sun has its own attractiveness. In fact, with an angular Venus and Aquarius-Libra luminaries, we might expect the person to be fairly attractive; if not, at least the mannerism seems that.

Digging deeper, though, we see which way this is likely to go. The otherwise soft, romantic angular Neptune and Venus are caught in harsh aspects that most often show difficult emotional conditions in the upbringing. Venus is closely conjunct Saturn - Neptune is closely conjunct Mars (reinforced by Sun). These two aspects - the angularity and the two aspects - are probably the main points on which to focus. You can read more details about them above.

Relationship matters are coming to a head and drawing the greatest focus right now. Transiting Pluto conjoins natal Venus-Saturn, so one would expect painful (perhaps even cruel) breakups - with obvious life-lessons and life-rearrangement in the mix. Saturn's return to its natal position is near, with the pivotal "coming of age" phenomena that always brings. Saturn has been going across that natal Mars-Neptune (+Uranus), and I think get back to about 18° Sagittarius - this is really rough, and while it can give the best-adjusted, best-supported individuals the chance to have some breakthroughs, the basic feel is outright malicious. This person might well be a danger to themselves or other people.

Over the next week or so, transiting Mars (which just opposed natal Uranus) will oppose natal Mars-Neptune. This sort of aspect happens about once a year and is nonetheless quite dramatic.

[[V]]

Thanks Jim. That is all pretty alarming, given I just started dating this girl lol
I should have specified earlier. I am interested in knowing a bit about her career path and relationship trajectory. She currently lives in Pasadena. Is there anything in my chart that makes this relationship an even bigger red flag? (if answering that is a tedious task, don't worry about it)

[Jim Eshelman]

The first thing I noticed when putting her chart around yours is that your Ascendants are in almost precise square, yours being 3°05' Libra and hers 3°00' Cancer. I haven't seen enough examples of this to remember any, but it seems important - certainly it would traditionally be considered so - as a mark of compatibility or at least being strongly "hooked" into each other.

The most important things in her chart do tie right into yours. Her Venus-Saturn conjunction squares your Mars, Venus by 0°40' on one side and Saturn by 0°31' on the other - midpoint 0°05' from your Mars. While Venus-Mars is, of course, a major attraction (quite fierce at this orb) Mars-Saturn is an intense conflict. Perhaps a highly driven working environment would allow Mars-Saturn to be constructive, but in general it is not. (I did have a years-long relationship with a partile Mars-Saturn interchange and it seemed quite powerful and positive at the time; however, in retrospect, I can see that it had a damaging effect on areas of my life that didn't become evident to me until years later. I had to do a lot of repair in some quarters.)

These also aspect your Jupiter, but not as closely as the Mars.

Similarly, just as you have Neptune on IC natally, her Mars-Neptune is on your IC.

There is no particular relationship between her luminary signs and yours. The best aspect is probably her Uranus (like your Uranus, but closer) opposite your Sun 0°05' and square your Moon 1°06' This likely gives a sense of excitement, change, something to really grab your curiosity and hold your attention.

Your chart is not especially kind to hers, either. The worst aspects are close to both of your angles. For example, it's one thing to see her Venus and Saturn aspecting your Mars, and has a more poignant feel that your Mars squares her Venus 41' and her Saturn 31' - same aspects, the feel of how things "fall together" just seems different from the other side. BTW, Venus-Saturn is two-way since your Venus is 0°07' from sesqui-square her Saturn.

I'm sorry, V - I could be entirely wrong, and don't want to dis-serve you or spoil anything good - but this is a uniquely bad combination. One almost never sees so much clear, negative energy. If you strongly feel this is wrong, don't listen to me. It might be worth checking I didn't make a mistake (e.g., check that you get the same Ascendant for her I gave above), since a different birth time for her would at least shift the balance significantly.

[Jim Eshelman]

I found something positive to say: It appears she is scheduled for a positive year including probable romance. (This is separate from what I said about relationship crisis from the Pluto and Saturn transits).

Her current Solar Return for Pasadena has Jupiter exactly on Eastpoint and a Moon-Venus opposition. Moon also ties into her natal Uranus and (especially) Mars-Neptune, so it is especially Moon triggering Venus to Mars-Neptune - while this is dramatic and cauldron boiling over with energies and emotion, it is ultimately sexy and romantic. (There is also transiting Neptune, but not as strong as the angular Jupiter and Moon-Venus aspect, so I won't lean on it too heavily.)

Progressed SSR Moon opposed natal Mars about a month after her birthday; will oppose SSR Venus and natal Neptune about 3 months after (meaning: right now, so it is the Venus-to-Neptune aspect triggered for your beginning to date, seems romantic to her etc.). SQ Moon opposes SSR Saturn about five months after her birthday (meaning July) and natal Saturn and Venus about 10 months after her birthday (basically December).

[[V]]

Thanks Jim, I'll keep a careful watch on things and see how things play out. If anything, it will be a useful learning experience one way or the other!

[Jim Eshelman]

She might be a really gifted dom. That would be a constructive use of passion, drama, theatrics, icy dominion, psychological pressure squeezed to the extreme, and much more in this chart.

[[V]]

Funny you should say that, this is the first dom/sub relationship I've been in. However, she plays the sub in this one

[Veronica]

Funny you should say that, this is the first dom/sub relationship I've been in. However, she plays the sub in this one

She cant play the sub if she cant play the dom as well.
It might be more accurate to say
She cant Play the sub if she cant Be the dom.
Its a polarity power manifestation.
With an angular Neptune
You get a lot more then 50 shades of grey

[[V]]

Funny you should say that, this is the first dom/sub relationship I've been in. However, she plays the sub in this one

She cant play the sub if she cant play the dom as well.
It might be more accurate to say
She cant Play the sub if she cant Be the dom.
Its a polarity power manifestation.
With an angular Neptune
You get a lot more then 50 shades of grey

Intuitively that makes sense. But from my own experience, being the dom has been one of the most natural and intuitive things I've ever done. And I know that I absolutely cannot get into the mind-set of a sub, that's something I would not enjoy at all. I'm not so sure if polarity is a two way street like that.

[Jim Eshelman]

Intuitively that makes sense. But from my own experience, being the dom has been one of the most natural and intuitive things I've ever done. And I know that I absolutely cannot get into the mind-set of a sub, that's something I would not enjoy at all. I'm not so sure if polarity is a two way street like that.[/quote]
Quite interesting, thanks for that. I suppose it's the balance of your angular planets. In the hundreds of sexual behavior surveys that Gary Duncan and I did in the mid-'70s, Gemini Suns were curious about bondage and s/m while versatile, while Virgo Moons were among the most natural (dramatized) "victim little girl" (whether male or female) of all the types.

But human sexuality and the rest of the human psyche are complex and often reflect different sides of the same coin. Mars square Saturn in the angles will have its way.

[Veronica]

Funny you should say that, this is the first dom/sub relationship I've been in. However, she plays the sub in this one

She cant play the sub if she cant play the dom as well.
It might be more accurate to say
She cant Play the sub if she cant Be the dom.
Its a polarity power manifestation.
With an angular Neptune
You get a lot more then 50 shades of grey

Intuitively that makes sense. But from my own experience, being the dom has been one of the most natural and intuitive things I've ever done. And I know that I absolutely cannot get into the mind-set of a sub, that's something I would not enjoy at all. I'm not so sure if polarity is a two way street like that.

I think being the dom is fundamentally a trait that is more natural and intutive to most men. Men are not usually submissive. Testosterone makes that hard. Or somethibg Hard. Maybe the physics of polarity is hard.