Mozart vs. Clementi (Capricorn Death Battle)

[By Jove]

by Bogdan574 on Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:42 pm
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Mozart and Clementi were brilliant composers and pianists who advanced classical era music and influenced generations of composers after them. Clementi's piano sonatas, for example, were highly prized by Beethoven, Czerny, and Chopin who all regarded him as a pianist of great skill and a composer who fluently weaved themes together into a coherent whole. Emperor Joseph II called them to court to compete at the keyboard at Christmas Eve in 1781. The Emperor declared them to be equally matched. Clementi marveled Mozart for his skill and taste. Sadly, Mozart did not reciprocate the gesture.

Let us study the familiar chart of Mozart first:
His foreground planets are Uranus (on DSC in Aquarius), Moon and Pluto (near IC in Scorpio).
Aspects include Sun conjunct Mercury (in Capricorn) both apposing Neptune (in Cancer).
Moon conjuncts Pluto (in Scorpio) both sextile Jupiter (in in Virgo).
Mars (in Gemini) trines Venus (in Aquarius).
His most important signs are Capricorn and Scorpio with Gemini tagging third.

Now we study the chart of Clementi:
As we do not know his birth time we can't say anything about foreground planets.
As for aspects, Sun (in Capricorn) opposes Neptune (in Cancer) and trines Jupiter (in Taurus).
Moon conjuncts Mars (in Aries), sextiles Uranus (in Aquarius).
Mercury (in Capricorn) sextiles Pluto (in Scorpio).
Most important signs are Capricorn and Aries with Scorpio having some importance.

As far as synastry is concerned we can see that they share a lot of similarities. Both have suns opposing Neptune, Uranus ruling in Aquarius, and Pluto having important aspects in Scorpio. Both belong to the same generation after all. The big differences are that Clementi has a strong Aries bent while Mars and Jupiter are more prominent in his chart. For Mozart, Scorpio has greater importance and Pluto and Saturn are stronger. Both have Moons in detriment but in different Mars-ruled signs.

From this you could conclude that Clementi is more "solar" and "masculine" while Mozart is more "lunar" and "feminine". The Emperor ruled them to be equal but another aristocrat claimed that while Clementi had skill Mozart had skill and taste. The account of the duel itself seems to confirm this. Clementi went first, displaying his legendary skill and bravado at the piano. Mozart knew he could not top Clementi in technical skill so he decided to woo the hearts of his listeners instead, so he played a touching series of variations on a simple theme. Modern listeners will recognize it as "twinkle twinkle little star".

I listened to Clementi's sonatas myself and I do find his work touching. Mozart was being snobbish and mean when he called Clementi a machine and I think Mozart complained more about mainstream piano playing during his day. Clementi was just a convenient target when Mozart was fuming. But I do think Clementi has limitations in his imagination and emotional range. Like many other virtuosos of the time he got caught up making fancy melodies forgetting taste.

I also notice a general trend between Aries and Scorpio, Clementi and Mozart seeming to me as another example. Aries seems to be more "Solar" and "masculine" as it were, being technical, utilitarian, and cerebral. Scorpio seems more "Lunar" and "feminine" as it were, going for the heart and human vulnerabilities. I find another example between Kant and Spinoza, both iconoclastic enlightenment philosophers. Kant was as punctual as a clock in his schedule as a prominent university professor and his works are seen by some as very rational and technical, the categorical imperative being a big example of following a strict system. Spinoza was a reclusive lens grinder whose philosophy had a more mystical bent, thinking of God and Nature as one all encompassing Brahma, and breaking down the barriers of mind and body. These are my personal opinions and I may expound a section about them.

The competition was held at night and so it is likely that as the night dragged on Mars (in Aquarius) eventually culminated in the MC. That same Mars sharply squared Clementi Saturn and Venus (in Scorpio). Perhaps the Mars-Saturn-Venus aspect restricted Clementi that night or made him feel he needed to excel technically, to struggle against the limitations Saturn imposed on him. Meanwhile, that Mars squared Mozart's Moon and Pluto (in Scorpio). Perhaps this inflamed Mozart's emotions (such as frustration) and compelled him to take a different approach then Clementi did. Pluto does scorn barriers and arbitrary rules while Saturn seems to favor them.

Neptune during that night (in Virgo) did oppose Mozart's own Neptune (in Cancer) while giving Clementi no such advantage. Neptune generally regards the freeing imagination and allows things to flow better. (I think.) On the other hand Uranus during that night (in Gemini) trined Clementi's Uranus (in Aquarius). It seems to have helped Clementi perform the piano in a brilliant style. If Mars during that night did not smack into his Saturn he may have even done a more brilliant emotional performance.

Pluto during that night (in Capricorn) sextiled Clementi's own Pluto (in Scorpio), while giving no such advantage to Mozart. Again, this seems to give a greater advantage to Clementi. However, the Sun at that day (in Sagittarius) semisextiled Clementi's sun (in Capricorn), and such an aspect between neighboring signs could have frustrated him. A similar frustration seems to have happened as Uranus at that night (in Gemini) semisextiled Clementi's Jupiter (in Taurus).

Based on my novice inspection, it seems that though Clementi had more potential than Mozart as a performer during that one Christmas Eve, he had many disadvantages too that hobbled him. Mozart didn't seem to have any frictions, allowing to perform more naturally.

[By Jove]

by TheScales_BothWays on Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:27 am
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I was actually pretty engrossed by your thread when you first posted it and found it very informative as well as entertaining. It was pretty much "article"-like.
I didn't have any significant questions to ask then, so I didn't.

Perhaps Mozart's apparent snobbishness is his Moon-Pluto conjunction, which may appear so at times, especially with his Moon-Jupiter sextile. Or it could be just the latter.
Though why do you believe that Clementi's an Aries-Moon instead of a Pisces-Moon, which he has a chance of being?

Like many other virtuosos of the time he [Clementi] got caught up making fancy melodies forgetting taste.

That sounds very Neptune/Pisces!
Neptune/Pisces can at times be too fantastical and "into the feels" that their works become kitsch and gaudy due to too much of elaboration/exaggeration. One example is me, an angular-Neptune person.
But then again it could be his Sun-Neptune, which Mozart has it too!
Mozart has Uranus angular, which could mean why his works were more in taste and contemporary for his time. I know a Uranian who is pretty much very minimalistic yet stylish and fabulous in her dressing sense. Very contemporary yet individualistic too. I think that's Uranus acting on her Libra-Moon love for wearing stylish clothing.