The Astrology of Fame

[sotonye]

What in a chart makes someone famous? What exalts them into dizzying heights? Any analysis of any famous chart would turn up a healthy presence of the benefics, with configurations like Jupiter-Uranus, Jupiter-Pluto, Sun-Jupiter, Sun-Venus, and Venus-Uranus seeming the most common in my own investigations, but at the same time these same patterns find themselves in the charts of regular people, people who live and die without ever having proximity in life or in dreams to the world stage, without producing a similar effect. How can this be so? We could say that they are famous in a way, popular in the hearts of their significant others and families and children, which would follow a decent logic, but it’s much different than what we consider fame. What in a Natal suggests some involvement with the public? My mind goes first to the Moon as it rules the public, but there’s nothing about famous charts that seem especially lunar. Next my mind thinks of unusual luck, which would be the domain of Jupiter, whose presence I think seems pervasive enough to raise some alarm bells, and yet, again, Jupiter doesn’t seem to be an influence dominant in the charts of a select few, so how are there a select few at all?

[Jim Eshelman]

Define fame as you mean it here. Break it down into a set of behaviors.

Not set of conditions: Astrology doesn't show conditions. It shows needs, psychological patterns, and consequent behaviors. Behaviors, in turn, can sometimes result in consequent conditions, but those are secondary and unreliable.

So what personal characteristics and behaviors are you talking about?

[sotonye]

Define fame as you mean it here. Break it down into a set of behaviors.

Not set of conditions: Astrology doesn't show conditions. It shows needs, psychological patterns, and consequent behaviors. Behaviors, in turn, can sometimes result in consequent conditions, but those are secondary and unreliable.

So what personal characteristics and behaviors are you talking about?

The following behaviors I think are characteristic of famous types (and I would define fame as far-reaching and impersonal contact with the public):

A strong need for status, either some sense of importance and desire to “gift” or bludgeon the world with themselves (no aversion to constant self-presentation), or a sense of inferiority or privation and subsequent bouts of overcompensating, extreme sociableness leading to “knowing the right people,” strong need to advance or disregard norms, industriousness in the pursuit of aims, luck

[Jim Eshelman]

A strong need for status, either some sense of importance and desire to “gift” or bludgeon the world with themselves (no aversion to constant self-presentation), or a sense of inferiority or privation and subsequent bouts of overcompensating, extreme sociableness..., strong need to advance or disregard norms, industriousness in the pursuit of aims

You are mixing quite a bunch here. In what is otherwise a pretty consistent type, you add a sense of inferiority or privation with overcompensation, which is Saturn; bludgeoning, which is Mars; and industriousness, which is Mars and/or Saturn.

Removing that not-quite-half of the traits, the rest of what you describe is quite different and would rarely exist in the same person. In the rest, you are primarily describing a solar or jovian type, often supported by Venus-Jupiter blends, with a minimum of Pluto or Saturn.

[sotonye]

You are mixing quite a bunch here. In what is otherwise a pretty consistent type, you add a sense of inferiority or privation with overcompensation, which is Saturn; bludgeoning, which is Mars; and industriousness, which is Mars and/or Saturn.

I’m taking into account the kind of Napoleon-complex I sometimes see or have heard anecdotally

Removing that not-quite-half of the traits, the rest of what you describe is quite different and would rarely exist in the same person. In the rest, you are primarily describing a solar or jovian type, often supported by Venus-Jupiter blends, with a minimum of Pluto or Saturn.

And I see that makes sense! Thank you Mr. E

[SteveS]

Sotonye asked:

... so how are there a select few at all?

Good question. There are many other factors involved for the select few becoming famous besides seeing the appropriate fame symbolism in their natal charts.

1:The family environment with certain locations they were born unto. A strong benefic mother or father figure with their worldly connections.
2:Being in the right place at the right time with a SSR or SLR chart, particularly a SSR, and making contact with the right person. "Its not what you know--but who you know". Crossing paths with just one person can completely change the course of one's life.
3: Solar Arcs. Certain Solar Arcs with the right life circumstances could completely catapult a person into a world of fame, particularly involving the Sun or Moon.

[sotonye]

3: Solar Arcs. Certain Solar Arcs with the right life circumstances could completely catapult a person into a world of fame, particularly involving the Sun or Moon.

How are solar arcs calculated in solar fire?

[sotonye]

Is there some involvement by dignified planets in the rise to fame? I keep seeing 3 or more dignified planets in famous examples and I’m not sure what this could mean, I think this was mentioned before, that Garth Allen found that dignitaries often have many dignified planets, but why?

[Venus_Daily]

Up until the age of 14, I wanted desperately to be famous. I now know that it was due to a need for recognition. A lot of modern fame is rooted in narcissism. By modern, I mean 70s and up.

[SteveS]

Sotonye asked:

How are solar arcs calculated in solar fire?

Instructions for calculating a Solar Arc list in Solar Fire (SF):

1: Highlight (in blue) your Natal Chart under the “Calculated Charts” section of SF.

2: Then from the set toolbar in SF, left click “Dynamic”

3: Then left click “Transits & Progressions.” This will open a Window named: Dynamic Reports Selection.

4: Then under “Period of Report” select the time period you want for a lists of your Solar Arcs. For example Sotonye, I will select 1/1/2019 to “Start” the “Period” of your Solar Arc list. And then under the “Period” box I will type in 2 (for two years), making sure I have clicked on the “Years” tab.

5: Under “Location” section, SF will always default to Natal Location. All the Solar Arc authors I have read say Solar Arcs should only be used for the Natal Location.

6: Next—allow your eyes to move to the right to the “Event Selection” section. Make sure under the “Event Selection” section the only tab to x out is the “Directions to Radix” tab!!! This selection should be highlighted in green.

7: Next click the “View” box (lower right side).

Unless I have screwed-up these instructions, after you click on the “View” box, you should see a two year list for your Solar Arcs. You want to pay close attention to the 0,90,180 Solar Arc hits, and even closer attention to any Solar Arc hits involving your primary Natal Angles!!! For example: Looking at your two year Solar Arc list I see on May 18 2019 your Solar Arc Mars exactly 90 your Natal Jupiter. Aug 17 2020 your Solar Arc Mars 90 your Natal Asc. And biggie on Dec 22 2020—your Solar Arc Uranus conjunct your Natal MC. In my work, I have discovered our Natal MC's involving Solar Arc hits to be life-changing!!!

Never forget the dates in the Solar Arc lists are the exact mathematical dates. But you should allow 1 year before the exact date and one year after the exact dates for a partile aspect with a 2 year time window for the Solar Arc hit to manifest. As a general rule—if you are working with an AA timed chart, Solar Arc hits normally start their manifestations a few months before the exact date for the Solar Arc hit. Many times a transit of an outer planet will excite the Solar Arc hit into operation, particularly an outer planet transit to a Natal angle. But, I have also seen where our Secondary Progressed Moons, both our Natal Moons and Solar Return Moons involving partile aspects 0,90,180 can excite a Solar Arc hit into full operation. Also, it is very important to do a serious analysis of your Sidereal Solar Returns (SSR's) for the years you see important Solar Arc hits involving your Natal Angles. At times, you will see dynamic or 'outstanding incident' SSR's offer more detailed symbolism coloring the Solar Arc hits.

Let me know if these instructions worked for you seeing the future with your Solar Arcs.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Instructions for calculating a Solar Arc list in Solar Fire (SF):

Steve, would you copy this and paste it in the Solar Fire section? I think other people will find it useful too.

5: Under “Location” section, SF will always default to Natal Location. All the Solar Arc authors I have read say Solar Arcs should only be used for the Natal Location.

I think that's based on the idea most people stayed in the same place where they were born for their first year. However, if you knew your parents moved from your birthplace during that first year, especially the first 100 to 120 days of your life, you might experiment with moving the solar arc calculation for those days to the new location.
It would be interesting if you were taken to visit grandparents for a week (maybe at Christmas? or summer vacation?) to experiment with casting any progressions or directions for that time period for the other location.
Us older people probably don't know and won't be able to find out about trips or visits while we were under a year old, but younger people whose parents are still alive might ask while they still can.

[Jim Eshelman]

Yes, it's not quite true that all the Solar Arcs authors recommend that. Natal is the default, but local works just as well - interchangeably - both have to be considered.

[SteveS]

Jupe wrote:

Steve, would you copy this and paste it in the Solar Fire section? I think other people will find it useful too.

Yes, good ideal. I have done so with slight alterations.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Thank u.

[SteveS]

In one of Cyril Fagan's (Father of Sidereal Astrology) American Astrology (AA) Magazine articles titled “The Role of the Birthchart” he writes:

But ponder the implications that the rule concerning the applicability of the natal chart as the be-all and end-all of predictive astrology is not a rule at all and is, moreover, patently wrong.

Fagan then gives an example of a Sidereal Solar Return which timed the solar year for an official of the Catholic Church to be elected Pope. Pope Pius XI (Cardinal Ratti) AA rated timed birth: May 31, 1857, 8:00 AM, Desio, Italy. He was elevated to fame by being elected Pope on June 13, 1921. His striking 1921 Sidereal Solar Return (SSR):
https://imgur.com/UHgoumn

Note: This SSR is a classic example from Jim's SSR teachings for an 'outstanding incident' SSR with a tight angular partile 180 of Jupiter-Uranus; partile t-squaring his Natal/SSR Sun. Fagan writes from the AA article:

As stated the raga-yoga par excellence of kingship or the like are mutual configurations of the Sun and Jupiter from the angles, to which we may add Uranus, the significator of autocracy.

Before a Pope can be elected to this high office, they must be “consecrated” to a position of Bishop at some point in their career. On Oct 28, 1919 Ambrogio Damiano Achille Ratti was consecrated to Bishop. It is interesting to note on June 28 1920 Ratti had a Solar Arc MC conjunct his Natal Sun, par-excellent symbolism for a promotion in his career. Noel Tyl writes about Sun=MC; MC=Sun:

Ego recognition;personal glory; usually successful; fulfillment. Professional fulfillment.

An excellent example for being elevated to fame positions with the timing of SSR's and a MC=Sun Solar Arc.

Pope Pius XI Bio:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_XI