Lyndon Baines Johnson

[Jim Eshelman]

President Lyndon Baines Johnson was born at "daybreak" on August 27, 1908 in his family's home about three miles east of Stonewall, TX. The farm house was at 30N14'31", 98W36'37".

If "daybreak" is taken as the appearance of the Sun's rays cracking the eastern horizon, the time was 6:08:03 AM CST. However, there are many definitions (both casual and technical) of the words marking the daily solar rising, so there is leeway in this. Cyril Fagan rectified LBJ's birth time to 5:44 AM.

He's back in the news because of the publication of the withheld portions of Lady Bird's diaries. Many significant details are revealed, one being that his announcement in March 1968 that wouldn't seek or accept nomination for another term was not a result of the war and other pressures crushing him at that point - or RFK's rise in the polls - as long assumed but, rather, had been planned to the month by the president and first lady years earlier.

Another point - and one that inspired me to write this post - is that he suffered bouts of terrible, even paralyzing depression. This was a real surprise to me because Johnson's chart has never struck me as a depressive chart. The chart is full of boisterous, even outrageous cowboy spirit as well as numerous repetitious marks of royalty: Not only his Leo Sun, Moon, Ascendant, and three other planets, but the rising of Jupiter most closely, and of Sun and Mars conjoined just below. If Fagan's rectification is trusted, Johnson had Regulus rising and Fomalhaut setting, two of the four Royal Stars of ancient Babylon. All of these marks are clear.

But depression? Where might that originate? There is room in the chart for exhaustion - and he certainly pushed himself hard despite a bad heart. There is room for disillusionment (but less so that the same aspects would mean for others, given that rising trio of Sun, Mars, and (especially) Jupiter in Leo. In general, for something that seems actually to have been a big deal, it isn't immediately evident where this comes from.

[Jim Eshelman]

I have found several indicators of depression, but they are quite minor factors. One has to consider whether they would overbalance the basic thrust of so bold, boisterous, rugged, and virile a chart.

First, though, I wanted to go back and see if I'd forgotten something, especially about Leo. Do any of the main factors in Leo have a shadow expression of major depression? Aside from the generalization that any sign type could be this way in the right (i.e., wrong) conditions, I have to say, no, there is nothing in my interpretations or notes that suggest this is the case. (But I had to look.)

I've found three factors that I can interpret as a tendency to depression. As mentioned above, I consider all of them minor compared to the primary factors in the chart. Nonetheless, I'll mention them as conversation starters.

Perhaps the best of the three depends on the 5:44 AM birth time being exceedingly accurate: Johnson's Saturn/Neptune midpoint was 4°16' Taurus and his Ascendant for this birth time was 4°20- Leo, 0°04' away. Even if Fagan's rectification is exceptionally accurate, I don't think a midpoint contact is enough by itself; but I can't fail to mention a Saturn/Neptune contact this close. (And would it outpace something upbeat like Sun = Moon/Jupiter? It's hard to say it would.)

The least convincing of the three is that his Moon (and, for that matter, his Mercury) is in partile ecliptic conjunction with the fixed star Zosma. Ptolemy said the star is of the nature of Venus-Saturn.

Third, and most interesting to me, is his Novien, which features a Moon-Venus-Saturn T-square with Venus-Saturn being the closest aspect. That one I find interesting. It also ties into his natal Venus-Neptune so (if the Novien is taken as being objective and we can cross it with the natal as often seems the case) his Novien Moon ties into both Saturn and Neptune (plus two Venuses). Here are the positions:

21°01' Pis - Novien Saturn
22°52' Gem - natal Neptune
23°02' Vir - Novien Venus
24°59' Sag - Novien Moon
25°54' Gem - natal Venus

This is, indeed, a strong indication. It's even more interesting because it shows things that simply do not appear in the standard nativity (at least, so far as I can see). If the Novien can pull out patterns this strong in true side-by-side interpretation with the natal horoscope, we need to know it. It may indeed be as important as Fagan thought at the end of his life. (Of course, it may not. But it's the most interesting thing I see from here.)

Thoughts?

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

I don't think he had major depression.

I think he got depressed after his heart attacks, like most people do. But I don't think that's the same thing at all.
Googling, it sure looks like mental illness activists are saying he was as a way to show people who are mentally ill shouldn't be discriminated against, which they shouldn't. But I don't think diagnosing him from a distance and trying to claim he had major depresssion is accurate or appropriate.

[Jim Eshelman]

I wasn't diagnosing him from a distance and those weren't the articles I was seeing. My attention was caught by this fascinating article in the New York Times today about Lady Bird's diaries.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/11/us/p ... s-lbj.html

However, I'd be astrologically happy if the real answer was that, "The reason his chart doesn't look depressive is that he wasn't depressive, and we really do know how to read horoscopes."

[Parto]

Background Venus-Neptune-Uranus-Saturn?

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

I didn't think you were trying to diagnose from a distance. I thought the authors of the articles I found with Google were doing that. Sorry for not being clearer.

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Here. This rings true to what I heard at the time.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... nt/376281/

[Jim Eshelman]

Background Venus-Neptune-Uranus-Saturn?

Just the fact that they're in background? (Since they aren't all in aspect to each other, that's my guess of what you mean.)

That wouldn't be typical of depression.

[Jim Eshelman]

Here. This rings true to what I heard at the time.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... nt/376281/

That's a great article on him. In particular, there is so much Jupiter in the description, from beginning to end. This is much as I remember him.

However, it doesn't address Lady Bird's real time record (at least, her assessment of him) years earlier.

BTW, speaking of memories... the article was full of them for me. I know Hale Boggs' grandson. I remember Vance Hartke really well (and, despite LBJ's view of Hartke [pronounced heart-key], I can't believe he included his colleague and ally Birch Bayh in the Hoosier lambaste). The advice he gave Nixon is priceless, considering what happened next. And, of course, I cut my political teeth campaigning for McGovern that year and as occasional driver of a local congressional candidate who lost.

[Parto]

Just the fact that they're in background? (Since they aren't all in aspect to each other, that's my guess of what you mean.)

Not all, but we have Venus-Neptune, Saturn-Uranus, and Uranus-Neptune. They're not as close as I'd like, all over 3º even if slightly, but maybe just the presence of multiple background dynamic aspects adds some weight?

Going by your medical attributions, Venus and Uranus configured with Neptune (and Uranus with Saturn also) could give way to a quite thorough debility of the nervous system. (Speculation.) Venus-Neptune has an idealism and romanticism which, unexpressed, I could easily see leading to unhappiness.

Just some ideas.

[Jim Eshelman]

Just the fact that they're in background? (Since they aren't all in aspect to each other, that's my guess of what you mean.)

Not all, but we have Venus-Neptune, Saturn-Uranus, and Uranus-Neptune. They're not as close as I'd like, all over 3º even if slightly, but maybe just the presence of multiple background dynamic aspects adds some weight?

In theory, strong, dynamic background aspects can have a health impact that can be either physical or psychological. At most, I might expect disillusionment from the Venus-Neptune (and that's true of him). His symptoms don't really match these aspects, though, as far as I can tell.

In any case, I see where you're coming from. And, without having confirmed it on my own, I do note that Ebertin credits with Saturn-Uranus and Uranus-Neptune with heart disease FWIW.

But you mention unhappiness and Lady Bird's characterization was depression, which is quite a different thing.

[Parto]

Yes, I don't think Venus-Neptune would be enough for actual depression (especially with so wide an orb), but perhaps it could have been a contributing factor. It seems it was in his later life that it got really serious. (Did I get that right?)

More speculation: it could be that dynamic background aspects which have a wider orb (in this case, not partile, not even Class 1) take longer to take their "toll" on the native, since the need itself isn't as strong, its supression requires a longer time to be felt, not having an urge for "immediacy."

And maybe the answer just isn't in his natal. (Or the time is wrong.)

[Jim Eshelman]

Yes, I don't think Venus-Neptune would be enough for actual depression (especially with so wide an orb), but perhaps it could have been a contributing factor. It seems it was in his later life that it got really serious. (Did I get that right?)

The period documented in the diaries is during his presidency, and it didn't sound like it was anything new to Lady Bird - she seemed to refer to it as a familiar pattern. (BTW, Venus-Neptune is only 3°01', practically Class 1. It's the closest aspect between any of those four planets and one of the closest aspects in his chart.

[Danica]

I think Novien-to-Natal is showing it quite clearly.

21°01' Pis - Novien Saturn
22°52' Gem - natal Neptune
23°02' Vir - Novien Venus
24°59' Sag - Novien Moon
25°54' Gem - natal Venus

As soon as I’m able to get back to using laptop (= Solar Fire), I’ll take a look and pull out all clusterings of this kind, for a sample number of personally known people, and share the findings.

For now, what I know for sure is: the Novien Moon’s zodiac position is fully valid - is undeniably responsive to transits. (My own Novien Moon at 3*44’ Sco luckily doesn’t tie to anything in the natal, so it allows for the transits to it to be easily observed.)