Conception lunar return

[Freya]

Jim, honestly, what are the chances of miscarriage in my next SSR with Venus-Saturn present? Is venus-saturn better than moon-saturn for pregnancy? I am now terrified to go through this again

[Jim Eshelman]

Jim, honestly, what are the chances of miscarriage in my next SSR with Venus-Saturn present? Is venus-saturn better than moon-saturn for pregnancy? I am now terrified to go through this again

I think I've given as sure an answer as I can. I think you have to go through this with no idea how it will come out and find some acceptance of whatever outcome happens.

There are too many moving parts... I can't keep track and have to keep going back to read the entire thread from the start. (In this case, I had to go back and find the previous interpretation of the SSR.)

Freya, I know this is a terrible day for you and you surely also have anxiety about the future. I don't want to sound overly hard (and I fear that I probably will since I insist on being truthful for your questions rather than just consoling). What I keep seeing in you is that you get an answer you don't like and then try to negotiate with us and the universe to change the answer; and that you want absolute certainty, which I don't think you're going to get. Indications are mixed. The last year has had very strong indications of sorrow for anything related to Moon (such as maternity). Your new year has more positive than negative - for the whole range of your life in general, but without singling out one kind of happiness over another.

What I don't really have time to do is go back and gather all the many "looking forward" notes we've made about the next year or two in this and your other threads. Perhaps we can refine judgment a bit if you are able to read through the threads about your conception efforts and summarize what has been said about periods that are still in the future. - No promises of the outcome, but I'll look at it again if it's all gathered in one concise summary (and I imagine Steve will, too).

Having written the above, I stopped to take a look at just basic things in your chart (nothing exhaustive). Transiting Uranus opposes your Saturn in the months ahead, so it does seem that the main personal development is to live open to whatever occurs with no concrete certainty about it. Saturn squares your Sun right now, which always marks a phase-shift in life - a time to reassess the last seven years and make new decisions from where you find yourself right now. Jupiter is about to cross your WP, so we can expect some distinct and important blessing over the next couple of weeks. Mars opposes your Uranus - probably the trigger for the miscarriage (it was even from Taurus to Scorpio) but also giving a message that your psyche needs freedom, to break out of any current narrow definitions and give yourself as much space to move and think and breathe and feel as possible. Sun-Venus squares your Neptune - which, given what happened, is surely the demoralizing, disenchanting state in which you surely find yourself at the moment (but which also will pass).

BTW, Solar Arc Moon-Venus are still on target to hit your angles in less than two years (in orb within less than a year).

[Jim Eshelman]

Jim, honestly, what are the chances of miscarriage in my next SSR with Venus-Saturn present? Is venus-saturn better than moon-saturn for pregnancy? I am now terrified to go through this again

I forgot to mention a technical detail: Whereas Moon-Saturn was exactly angular, Venus-Saturn isn't foreground. That makes it much less of a presence (barely a presence in the SSR).

That isn't meant to be a final answer, just a direct response to the question you actually asked.

[FlorencedeZ.]

I am so sorry Freya.
You are in my thoughts.

[TheScales_BothWays]

Very sorry to hear this, Freya
You'll be in my thoughts. Hope the surgery gets completed safely.

[Freya]

The op was horrific, and so far, I am not exaggerating when I say this, it was the most traumatic event of my entire life with repercussions on my body ( the other event referring to is my grandmother’s death in March 2017, but that was more at an emotional level and a different loss, not against nature, as children shouldn’t die before their parents as is the case here. I have noted that several family members of mine have died in March, I am starting to think March is a negative month, or a “ good month” for the souls in my family cluster to check out of this physical existence) to name a few, all my grandparents have died in March, both of my miscarriages happened in March.

Returning to the op, they were “running late” so they left me lying on a bed after having applied medication to dilate my cervix for much longer than they should have, well over 1.30 hours (my sense of time after that vanished) with the request not to push out no matter how strong the contractions became. All this on two capsules of paracetamol taken 6 hours earlier, because I was supposed to get a general anaesthetic “soon”. The cramps were horrific, especially fighting against them, I was shaking and crying and suddenly I was assailed bu a deep sense of livid coldness all over my body. I felt I was hovering above it, for a few moments, looking down at it from above my head. It was a peculiar but liberating sensation to feel like a weightless intelligence for a few brief moments, looking down at a familiar shell on the bed, yet feeling detached from it from its sense of Self. I don’t know how best to describe it. Then the stabbing pain brought me straight back into physical consciousness and the “party” was over never to be repated.

When my turn came, they thought I could walk to the operating theatre like most women can but I was in so much pain I couldn’t even reply to them and they wheeled me in. When they lifted me onto the operating table I felt that I had just passed the fetus, they commented, “don’t worry it’s too early must be just tissue but they gave me a general then and there. It turned out that I had indeed expelled the “main event” much faster than they thought. They still used the suction to aspirate other pregnancy tissue. I would like to point out that the alternative to surgery was a medically assisted miscarriage at home, where I would be given the appropriate pain relief such as morphine, not two paracetamol capsules in the morning, which barely work on a heavy period

The operation itself went”well” and the doctor remarked that my body “responded very well to the meds” which were supposed to be only preliminary. They didn’t puncture my uterus. In 6 weeks’ time I will find out if all the pregnancy tissue has been removed (a possible complication which requires further surgery) but the surgeon believes it unlikely as my body had expelled a lot on its own already. The most concerning complication, that of scarring causing infertility, I won’t know until everything heals and I go for a scan. I really hope this complication does not arise and does not put an end to my journey. The surgeon said she had only used very mild suction as I had already expelled the fetus that would have needed the most suction. Who knows at this point. All I know is that it was horrific how it went down and also by not being allowed anybody next to me during this ordeal due to covid restrictions.

Definitely the most traumatic event if my life so far in terms of acuteness, vulnerability and physical pain and emotional loss

Nice job Mars- Uranus opposition

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

I am furious on your behalf.
For people who don't speak British English, paracetamol = acetaminophen. She went through this with two Tylenol for painkiller.
I'm so sorry.

[Freya]

Thank you for your words, I do appreciate them. It was extremely painful and overall an experience that will remain with me for the rest of my life, not in a good way. I still wish I hadn’t woken up from the anaesthetic. I don’t feel much point in going on like this

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

You need a counselor. You may have to try more than one before you find someone sympathetic and sane who can help. It's more than a sounding board. You've been through a lot, and of course you're depressed, but it doesn't have to be permanent.

Depression is a physical state, not a mental one. Your body has already betrayed you. Don't let it win this one.

[Jim Eshelman]

Freya, are you still monitoring this? We haven't heard from you in the year since this terrible time. How are you doing?

[Jim Eshelman]

As this is all coming to fruition in the next few weeks, I want to repeat this post from December 2020. (The whole post is above, just click the little arrow.)

The really exciting Solar Arc, though, is that your natal Moon-Venus directs to your angles this year: Moon to IC, Venus square MC. Again, this isn't exact until about a year later, but is in orb beginning August [2021]. If nothing interferes or crosses it, this seems a perfect stage of life for a pregnancy in the sense that your strong Moon-Venus square reaches an angle and, thus, a kind of fulfillment or expression.

So, considering both of these things, we have from the solar arcs some strong reasons to think 2022 has a good chance of seeing you give birth.

I think the entire thread is worth reviewing carefully, calculating all the charts discussed as one goes. Much of the thread is painful, though, so be ready for that.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

Much of the thread is painful, though, so be ready for that.

Indeed! It demostrates to us there are wrong times and right times to initiate important things for our lives. IMO, if memory is serving me correctly, I think Freya felt pressure with/from her mate at the time to hurry the pregnancy process along and we were trying to help her with the timing process. For sure we saw her first attempt as the wrong time with t Saturn partile her Moon-Venus aspect with the eggs failing. This tread makes me think about all the other women in the world who so desperately want to get pregnant but go through so much difficulty. You gave her precise timing advice Jim for the best time for her to bear children.