Angular Saturn Project

[Jim Eshelman]

Welcome to the Angular Saturn discussion project, which will run May 2-15, 2021 (and then will remain around in case people want to revisit it in the future). Please gather your list of Saturn Angular people (especially those you know personally) and join us.

CRITERA: Planets within 7° of major angles (Asc-Dsc, MC-IC) and 2° of minor angles (Zenith-Nadir, EP-WP). Ideally (i.e., if you can), please assess proximity to horizon and meridian in prime vertical longitude, squares to MC and Asc in longitude, and RA contact to EP and WP in right ascension.

Here is the primary Angular Saturn interpretive resource on the forum:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=38&p=181#p188

We may also want to compare to Sun in Libra and Capricorn for ideas to check against our Angular Saturn examples:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=35#p161
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=35#p164

My current concise summary of Angular Saturn reads:

Needs to be self-reliant, self-sufficient, autonomous, independent; maturing is a process of securing autonomy. Works hard, industrious. Survival instinct is strong and drives much of the behavior. Hardship likely (especially in youth); struggle for security; life’s demands seem severe (some are beaten down; some gain great strength and endurance). Cautious, emotionally reserved, self-protective, conscientious, methodical, austere (may shut others out emotionally). Beware self-restriction arising from fear.

[Jim Eshelman]

People active on this forum with Saturn angular include:

• Arena
• Avshalom Binyamin
• FlorencedeZ

To these we can add nine U.S. Presidents. There is also a striking presence of extraordinarily powerful women like we haven't quite seen in other lists, including Catherine the Great, both Queen Elizabeths, VP Harris and Sec. Clinton.

Some famous people with Saturn angular:

• Queen Elizabeth I, Czar Catherine the Great, Emperor Hirohito, Queen Elizabeth II, Pres. James Madison, Pres. James Monroe, Pres. Franklin Pierce, Pres. U.S. Grant, Pres. William H. Taft, Pres. Woodrow Wilson, Pres. John F. Kennedy, Pres. Jimmy Carter, Pres. Joseph Biden, VP Kamala Harris, Sec. Hillary Clinton, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Dir. J. Edgar Hoover
• Camilla Parker-Bowles, Eva Braun
• Jeffrey Dahmer, Mark David Chapman, Myra Hindley, David Koresh, Jim Jones
• C.G. Jung, Kenneth Anger, Ross Perot, Woody Allen

Besides the forum members and famous people listed above, I have a list of 23 other people I knew/know sufficiently well with Saturn angular by the above criteria. I'll recheck everything against these examples. (One of those I personally knew overlap with the famous: Kenneth Anger.) The rest are private acquaintances, including my mother, my ex-wife, and a niece.

[Parto]

I have five private examples with Saturn very close. All have had either particularly difficult lives in general, or major, specific struggles that seemed to seep into everything else. A lot of it centers around mental health. I suspect most of that comes from severe hardship being present from the beginning.

I find the contrast interesting regarding their "starting positions" in life, while seeing the Saturn presence quite strong in all of them. The two poorer ones fit more into the "beaten down" category, though one of them most of the time is striving in some way. The other one seems to "run away from the fight." I don't know how he's doing now, but he has gone long stretches of time feeling and being "stuck" in life. It seems Saturn "shuts him down." Saturn is by far his strongest planet, so I suspect the issue is in his resisting himself. I have no clue how someone could resist their angular planets (mine are like a drug to me), but if it can happen it makes sense that it would with this one.

[Jim Eshelman]

I have no clue how someone could resist their angular planets (mine are like a drug to me), but if it can happen it makes sense that it would with this one.

Yes, it seemed like quite a breakthrough years ago when I first thought - doh! - Saturn resists. It's their nature to resist.

I've occasionally wondered if the reason Saturn types have some of the toughest times of all is because they are the most naturally able at denying, resisting, blocking, and refusing - the very things that lead to psychological and often physical difficulty. (In contrast, Venus and Jupiter would be expected to have easier lives if for no other reason than that their attitude is more accepting, less resisting.

[Jim Eshelman]

I have completed the refreshed examination and rewrite of Saturn foreground. The full treatment can be found here:
https://www.solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=38#p188

The three keywords are: Independence, Reserve, Struggle

Here is the new summary, only a little different from the last generation (though some of the changes are important):

Needs to be independent, self-sufficient, self-reliant, private. Survival instincts drive much of the behavior. Industrious, conscientious, methodical, driven (works hard). Struggle (hardship especially in youth, struggle for security, burdensome life demands, or struggling on others' behalf): some are beaten down, most gain strength and endurance. Cautious, prudent, emotionally reserved and careful (may shut others out). Strong parental themes.

Thanks again to everyone who participated in this project.

[Arena]

Well yes I do have Saturn angular, but it is partile opposite Jupiter, and they are both very close to my angles so it is quite a different Saturn It is always going to matter which planet, if any, Saturn is in close aspect to. I also have it in close aspect to Neptune... so I believe all those planets have influenced my life a whole lot. But then comes Uranus square my MC and that is also a huge factor in building a character. So I'm a mix of many different things.

JUPITER-SATURN
Practical, sensible (especially with finances). Responsible, conscientious, determined. Courageous, effective survivors; rarely halted by adversity. Patient hard work (earning one's place, success through industry) brings the most reliable rewards. Balances gain & loss: what can be won from losing, what it costs to win (cf. politics, finance; making lemonade from lemons). Attuned to legacy, heritage, tradition. Cornerstones of their families or circles. Orthodoxies draw their strong allegiance or opposition (the most creative become baselines of new orthodoxies).

Fagan & Firebrace wrote:
Those whose incomes are derived from the land, real estate, wills, legacies, bequests, or from interest from money held in trust.

[Jim Eshelman]

Agreed.

Or, as I would model it, the foreground Saturn, foreground Jupiter, and Jupiter-Saturn aspect are three separate inputs, each of which has its say; and your "whole person" incorporates all of these inputs.

What interests me most about your Saturn in theory is that, while the planet itself (with all of its needs and motifs) is obviously strong (it's your single most angular planet), your luminary signs (Cancer and Aries) are the two distinctly un-Saturnian signs. This opens up a subtle interpretive area for which I don't yet have a settled approach. In general, I take it to mean (for example) that while Sun in Cancer in general is "like Moon and Jupiter, and very unlike Saturn and Mars," you don't have the "no Saturn, no Mars" in your character - quite the obvious (Saturn rising 1°37', Moon square Mars 2°58'). One area I hope somebody writes a book about one of these days is one breaking out the identified sign traits according to where they originate (e.g., what in Cancer is from Moon, what from Jupiter, what from Rim, what from having the least input from Saturn, what from having the least input from Mars). What as a Jupiterian like who is also Saturnian, or a lunar type who is also martial? This could be quite valuable in training.

Or, in your case - there is surely no combination more contrary to Saturn than Jupiter-Neptune. (One could usually interpret a Jupiter-Neptune aspect by saying, "whatever you think is Saturnian - say the opposite!" Yet, you have Saturn rising in close opposition to a close Jupiter-Neptune conjunction on Descendant (mundanely, of course - they're an entire sign apart ecliptically):

26°27' 6H - Neptune
27°48' 6H - Jupiter
28°23' 12H - Saturn

First, though... I need to firmly catalogue the individual distinctions. Catalogue every tree in the forest on its own. After that, the combinations (the forests themselves) remain endlessly fascinating.

[SteveS]

I have encountered 1 Jupiter-Saturn "outstanding incident" cycles (return chart) in my life, and it manifested for me a very rewarding short term (2 years) new business with all the benefic (Jupiter) structure (Saturn) for this short term business to prosper. Jupiter-Saturn can blend a balance of growth & structure for anykind of business or relationship.