Progressed composite charts

[Jim Eshelman]

I remain uncertain about exactly how much attention to place on composite charts. Sometimes, they seem to completely nail the essence of a relationship; sometimes, they seem to miss it completely. I definitely think they are secondary "add on" features to standard synastry, which is usually quite complete by itself.

Therefore, I almost never look at progressed composite charts, even though I did a bit of serious looking at the topic "way back in the day." A progressed composite is calculated by first calculating each person's progressed chart, then forming a composite from that. (I recommend progressing the angles by the Solar Arc in Longitude method.)

I had to help someone online with a calculating problem of one of these today so I took Marion's and my progressed composite for our wedding. I'd never looked at this before. It rather blew me away:

24°46' Leo - p Venus
24°50' Leo - p Asc

Whoa!

To this I can add some significant Moon aspects:

10°47' Taurus - c Jupiter
11°38' Leo - p Moon
11°05' Libra - p Neptune

I thought some of you would be interested in the example.

PS - There were no contacts of the progressed planets to Marion's or my natal planets. I mention this because one often has composite to natal contacts - this time, nada. Ignoring progressions, our composite significantly has angles within 1° of my natal Sun, Jupiter, and Uranus (composite Ascendant conjoins my Jupiter 0°00'). Local composite angles fall within 1° of Marion's Moon, within 2°20' of her Sun.

[Jim Eshelman]

For the time and place we connected - the event that transitioned a years-long friendship into something more - progressions were as follows:

14°44' Tau - p Jupiter
14°49' Leo - p Asc
14°49' Sco - p Mars

[Jim Eshelman]

Transits to the composite for the wedding were less impressive than the progressions. (Anna-Kria and I used to, among other things, track transits to our composite on a day-to-day basis and they were at least somewhat inferential.) Transits for the wedding were:

However, the two transits that existed for the wedding were at least correctly themed:

10°47' Tau - c Jupiter
11°26' Tau - t Sun
11°38' Tau - p c Moon

20°14' Can - c Uranus
20°21' Ari - t Venus

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

I thought some of you would be interested in the example.

Indeed. Jim, what was the date of you and Marion's wedding?

[Jim Eshelman]

Indeed. Jim, what was the date of you and Marion's wedding?

May 27, 2019, 6:01:44 PM PDT, San Jacinto, CA at 33N46'27", 117W00'18".

[SteveS]

That progressed composite for you & Marion wedding is impressive, particularly in light of having to wait so long due to Marion's circumstances. Do you know of any good teaching books with other examples about this method?

[Jim Eshelman]

That progressed composite for you & Marion wedding is impressive, particularly in light of having to wait so long due to Marion's circumstances. Do you know of any good teaching books with other examples about this method?

Not off hand, no. The only two books I have on composites are in storage so I can't consult them, but the larger is Rob's Planets in Composite. I don't remember that it touched on that subject more than flittingly. I'm sure I just picked it up from the astrological circles in which I was moving in the '70s and early '80s.

Anyway, the technical aspect is simple: Make the two progressed charts for the same date and form a composite from them. This got stirred up when someone on the Solar Fire users' Facebook page asked how to animate a composite's progressions: The answer is that there isn't a way (nor a way to calculate progressions from a composite specifically), you have to form the progressed charts then composite them. (You can, however, animate transits around a composite.)

[SteveS]

Yes, I have read Hand's book on composite charts and one other book about composites but no examples with the progressed composite chart for important relationships. I will have an acid test this autumn with the progressed composite with Gayle & I with Mars calculated partile conjunct our progressed composite ASC. We both have some tough return charts this Autumn. If any direct Mars symbolism for our relationship I will post. Thanks

[Jim Eshelman]

Keep us posted. I think I mentioned that Marion and I both have terrible things converging at once in December., so (besides concern for you) this is interesting.

Mine include really big progressions and directioms. For example (after a couple of earlier passes in life due to retrogradation) I have my final exact progressed Venus-Saturn conjunction. Also, my natal Sun and Saturn are almost to the minute 22.5 degrees apart, which I don't think of as an aspect per se but sets up the December conditions that solar arc Saturn squares my Sin exactly as solar arc/progressed Sun semi-square my Saturn.

Marion's charts get better a month or two later, but I don't know that mine do. It probably comes down to whether we can afford to be in Memphis for my birthday instead of LA.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

Marion's charts get better a month or two later, but I don't know that mine do. It probably comes down to whether we can afford to be in Memphis for my birthday instead of LA.

I understand Jim. I have a couple of rough SLR's immediately preceding Gayle's rough SSR and her Solar Arc Mars---MC hit. As time approaches I will post my rough "outstanding incident" SLR's. But, I am most interested to check out our progressed composite Mars-ASC along with these other rough return charts. Rough charts seem to be piling-up on us this Autumn.

[Jim Eshelman]

Rough charts seem to be piling-up on us this Autumn.

Unfortunately, that might be on the world - or nation - in general. We have a great few weeks coming up in late August / early September, but Delta Variant spread seems to be posing grave dangers. Just maybe... the worst is yet to come. (It does seem widespread and not just centered on us.)

I've started writing forecasts for 2022 to get ahead of that curve.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

Unfortunately, that might be on the world -

If on the world---the 2021 Cansolar
If on the Nation----Mars-Saturn 2021 Capsolar

[Jim Eshelman]

If on the world---the 2021 Cansolar
If on the Nation----Mars-Saturn 2021 Capsolar

Yes. And, well, the December forecast has been up since last December:
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=4589

Checking to see what I said: In addition to the Capsolar, as of mid-October the U.S. is under another threatening Libsolar, set for high impact events of loss, unhappiness, burden, and death. "Life conditions are extraordinarily dreary." Possibly direct threat to the president or an assault on the body and spiritual heart of the nation.

For the entire period December 6 to January 3, transiting Uranus squares Capsolar Ascendant. Transiting Pluto still squares Cansolar Moon until 12/25. For weeks, big changes will have been in motion (hopefully because people collectively try to forge a "new normal" for the future on a landscape where much has been dismantled already).

BEGINNING DEC 15, transiting Saturn crosses Washington's Capsolar Descendant again. "This is sorry news because such Saturn transits always show a time when many more people experience loss and grief than usual. This time, though, will differ from the deadly Saturn periods earlier in the year: There is amelioration for the holidays as transiting Jupiter conjoins CapQ Moon worldwide 12/22 through 1/4, as if voluntarily abating the hardship, just for the holidays, with generosity, kindness, and sympathy."

The Arilunar week (December 13-21) is particularly difficult for the U.S.: Moon squares Venus-Pluto worldwide and, in Washington, also squares Saturn in mundo. That sounds like a lot of personal loss to a lot of people. By New Year's Eve there is a "new dawn" feel, at least for a little while.

However, here is my forecast for the 2022 Capsolar:
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=4596

[SteveS]

The 2022 Capsolar is absolutely horrible! I sent all of my people your forecast and they have/are already taking cover.

[SteveS]

Jim, yours and Marion progressed composite for wedding got me to thinking if we can look at progressed composite charts for long meaningful relationships---why not look at the Solar Arc Composite?

Composite Solar Arc for You & Marion's wedding calculates c Node partile conjunct c IC partile grand trine with c Moon & c Mercury. Ebertin says about Moon/Mercury = Node:

The desire to exchange thoughts with other people, a thought union with others, initiating contracts.

Holy Marriage!

[Jim Eshelman]

Jim, yours and Marion progressed composite for wedding got me to thinking if we can look at progressed composite charts for long meaningful relationships---why not look at the Solar Arc Composite?

Theoretically, we could indeed. I never take the time because I'm just not that interested in solar arc directions, but the same theory would apply as for secondary progressions.

Composite Solar Arc for You & Marion's wedding calculates c Node partile conjunct c IC partile grand trine with c Moon & c Mercury. Ebertin says about Moon/Mercury = Node:

The desire to exchange thoughts with other people, a thought union with others, initiating contracts.

Holy Marriage!

But is a system really useful in a practical way when we have to dig into midpoints (not to mention adding Moon's nodes back into the chart!) to see something this big?

To say what you wrote differently: The composite itself has Caput on IC 0°06', perhaps simply suggesting "here is a connection" (though we would surely know that was already the case if we were bothering to calculate a composite for two people). In this case, that was at least set off because solar arc Mercury opposed composite Caput 19'. Of course, if we want a Mercury theme, that directed Mercury is also on composite MC 20' (yes, to the minute at Node/MC midpoint (Me = No/MC is a nice passage in Ebertin, too). To me, the main thing I notice is that this wasn't primarily a Mercury event, yet (so far) the strongest angular symbolism is Mercury.

Ah, but the solar arcs give us something else. Here is what most attracts my attention in the composited solar arcs:

21°09' Tau - d MC
21°42' Tau - c Moon

20°14' Can - c Uranus
20°53' Can - d Moon

9°59' Can - d Jupiter
10°23' Lib - c Neptune [it was a pageantial ceremony, after all]

Not bad. None of these, though, is as good as the simple to-the-point elegance of the secondary directions.

[SteveS]

I hear you Jim--excellent observations.

Jim & Marion’s wedding Solar Arc Composite:
https://ibb.co/W0Y9h7D
Excellent symbolism IMO for initiating a contract after being forced due to circumstance to wait a long period for a legal wedding, but agreed, not as outstanding as the progressed composite with c Venus partile conjunct c ASC.
After looking at Jim’s/Marion Solar Arc Composite I ran the Solar Arc Composite for Gayle & I wedding and it calculated:
Venus 08,53 Libra
Sun 09,36 Libra
Jupiter 08, 14 Cap
Excellent symbolism for another wedding, IMO. The secondary progressed composite for Gayle and I showed no outstanding symbolism for the wedding. My Solar Arc for the day of meeting calculated d Moon partile 90 r Venus, excellent symbolism for falling in love. Until proven otherwise, I will look at both secondary progressed composite and solar arc composites for important relationships/weddings as long as I have AA times. Anyway, very interesting symbolism for both weddings, thanks for this thread Jim.

[Jim Eshelman]

That's a good example! - When was your wedding?

[SteveS]

Jan 23 1971, app 3:15 PM. I have no experience with any kind of composite charts. Wish I had a good book by an experienced astrologer with many examples. But, I just realized something: With Solar Arc Composites even with different times we will always get the same aspects, correct?

[Jim Eshelman]

Jan 23 1971, app 3:15 PM.

Springville? (It doesn't matter for present purposes, of course.)

I have no experience with any kind of composite charts. Wish I had a good book by an experienced astrologer with many examples. But, I just realized something: With Solar Arc Composites even with different times we will always get the same aspects, correct?

You mean birth times? Yes, the planets will be quite similar (though, of course, the angles won't). - You do have Rob's Planets in Composite, yes? (That should count for "a good book by an experienced astrologer," though it doesn't have many examples.)

We have a sub-forum in this Synastry section on famous couples (romantic and otherwise). For "many examples," you might start running composites on all of them. There are great "pairs" to check.

[Jim Eshelman]

You missed on great secondary progression in your composite for the wedding:

15°57' Gem - p MC
16°38' Sag - c Jupiter

I don't know how the on-ramp to your marriage was - whether there were other significant events in the months leading up to it - but I do notice that your marriage occurred two months after a progressed New Moon (Moon 1°41' past conjunction with Sun); this would have occurred trine composite Uranus.

The other progressions I see are:

8°38' Gem - p Uranus
8°46' Gem - c Uranus
9°36' Lib - p Sun

[SteveS]

Thanks Jim, these secondary progressed composite charts are most interesting. If you ever hear/see of any other book teachings with more examples let us know.

[Jim Eshelman]

Thanks Jim, these secondary progressed composite charts are most interesting. If you ever hear/see of any other book teachings with more examples let us know.

I will, though I haven't heard about anyone doing any new work on this.

It's really simple, though. Interpret as you would an individual's secondary progressions.

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

I will, though I haven't heard about anyone doing any new work on this. It's really simple, though. Interpret as you would an individual's secondary progressions.

They are fascinating to contemplate. IMO, every astrologer involved in a relationship should track these involving angular and moon hits.

[Arena]

In the spirit of this thread. Since I'm simply so amazed sometimes by the compatibility, the deep understanding the continuous expression of love and even telepathic nature of my new relationship I decided to cast a progressed chart for both of us in our relocation (where we met and where we live together) and just for the fun of it check out the composite for those for today. Hope I'm doing this right.

Most prominent
Jupiter partile sq the ASC 0,24°
Nnode partile cj the WP 0,27°
Moon opp Venus 1,51°
Moon opp Uranus 3,29°

(our natals/birthplace progressed composite does not offer such a close encounter with the abovementioned angles).

[SteveS]

Impressive Arena! I have got to go back and restudy this thread for my feeble 75 year old mine, short term memory seems to be escaping me. I wish I had a good book to study about this methodolgy, may be a key for understanding all kinds of relationships better. Have you posted the chart of your new mate? If so, I will have it in my files somewhere and will find it. I want to duplicate and see this list of aspects you posted above. Then I will have more questions about this method.

[Jim Eshelman]

Steve, your composite with Brock is an interesting example for March 25. It's not a brilliant example, but what's present is solid symbolism.

This whole question of timing events in a relationship is interesting and I'm not convinced we have a satisfactory solution. I used to think (in theory, and with some practical examples) that the best approach was to note partile (or no more than 2°) interchanges between two charts so that the planets could have transits at the same time. It sounded good in theory, and sometimes worked out in practice, but ultimately not very satisfying. For example, the closest contact for you and Brock was your Sun 0°09' from his Descendant, but the one transits to 2° Virgo-Pisces when he died was Mercury at 2° Pisces (which didn't exactly describe the event meaningfully). Your Moons were 1°19' from exact opposition, but nothing aspected them March 25. The same with his Venus on your WP. Examples like this led me to dismiss a perfectly good-sounding theory: You just can't count on it to tell what you'd hope it will tell you.

Transits or progressions to composites rise up next - hoping they might show the most important events in the relationship itself. March 25 transits to your composite with Brock (scanning for partile conjunctions, oppositions, and squares) has t Uranus sq. c Pluto 18', seeming to suggest some sort of radical change in circumstances of the relationship, or radical change or shift that the two of you share: This is accurate, though I'm not sure it's a useful description.

Which brings us to composite progressions. Progressing each of your charts to noon March 25, then compositing these, produces symbolically sound, and perhaps useful, aspects.

In your 'natal' composite, you and Brock had as partile Venus-Saturn conjunction. While this isn't the best description of the relationship you've described to us, it does have the potential for long-term devotion. However, it because quite active for a 'soft' progression this spring:

9°06' Vir - p Sun
9°07' Can - c Venus
9°52' Can - c Saturn
10°45' Lib - p Venus

Sun triggered Venus-Saturn and was most exact to Venus at the time of his passing, which I'm sure was accurate. Progressed Venus had moved through aspect to Saturn in the year before and was still partile.

There was also a clear mark of injury or pain:

14°38' Leo - p Mars
14°43' Aqu - c Moon

Seeing this in advance, I don't know if I'd have captured the severity or exact nature (I probably wouldn't have), but it does all fit in hindsight and is worth noting.

In practice, I'm not convinced we have a sound way to treat the relationship as an entity of its own but, rather, we are left with the individual experiences of these two individuals. Nonetheless, progressed composites might be the best place to start since they do sometimes show what's happening.

[SteveS]

Thank you so much Jim, most interesting symbolism with the Sun-Venus-Saturn combo.