Venus-Mars angular in 79-year-old's SLR

[Jim Eshelman]

I'm working on the forecast for Joe Biden's Demi-SLR for March 20, 2022. Go ahead and set it up for Washington if you'd like to follow along.

In a young man's chart, this would be the chart for outrageous break-away "sowing wild oats" (or other seeds) - "spring break" sort of unleashing his genetic material indiscriminately into the world. Maybe a "first time with unlimited access" sort of adventure. My question is: How would you interpret this for a 79-year-old man in the public eye?

The chart is complex - five planets less than 1° an angle and two others which are even more important even though more widely angular - which are the pivot point of the return chart. I speak of a Venus-Mars conjunction on Descendant.

Venus is 1°26' above Descendant, Mars 2°35' below. Not only are they conjunct (2°43'), their midpoint is 0°34' from Descendant. Additionally, the closest aspect in the chart is transiting Venus square natal Mars 0°06'. Furthermore, Venus-Mars is the fulcrum of the whole aspect pattern, begin square transiting Uranus opposite natal Mars (both of those are within 1° of an angle) and being mundane square natal Moon (a mere 0°09' from MC). Venus-Mars is what the chart is all about.

It seemed a great opportunity to stir discussion about this. Nobody ever talks about this sort of question. I could, of course, be completely wrong, but I don't think this aspect means that Joe and Jill will take two weeks to run off on a great sexual adventure together, or that Joe will lose control with a White House intern (or anyone else he randomly runs into).

(There are a few other things in the chart. I can sort those out when I get the kernel right.)\

Most of the time, we interpret this aspect (strongly placed in a return chart) "all about sex." There is more to it, of course, but not much - and the other bullet points are related. For example, we can say the aspect means great passion, in the sense of very powerful feeling-force in general, or about some particular topic that dominates matters for two weeks. I often interpret it as "powerful emotions prevail over reason" (and may use some variation of it for Joe). Also, Venus-Mars sometimes works as afflicted Venus in the sense of causing unlubricated friction in relationships. (It's not the most common expression, but it shows; usually, though, as a spin-off of the simpler meanings.)

My current site interpretive notes (based mostly on Bradley tweaked by subsequent observation) interpret it thus:

(Passion, powerful feeling; affection + aggression)
Inflamed passions prevail over reason (the sexual impulse is invariably kindled). May mark an encounter with one of the great loves of one's life, where "love" must be understood as substantially (exclusively?) physical in origin and survival; the carnal hunger having been sated, interest expires. Depending on expectations, this can cause hurt or offense. In any case, this aspect combines pain with pleasure, may strain relationships, and might include outright cruelty.

Fagan's interpretation of the pair foreground in a return chart is this:

...it presages a rollicking good time with plenty of fun with 'the lads.' But it may tend to get out of hand, especially should Neptune enter into the fray, in which case Bacchus will exact his toil.

I'm not inclined to give myself an easy out on this one, let it slip by - it is an enormously powerful chart that probably will be of great impact (as I said, five planets within 1° of an angle - and that doesn't even count Venus or Mars). It seems the crux of a very important brief period.

So... how would you start off interpreting this?

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

I'd start off with Venus being angular and transiting, while both Mars are involved, transiting and natal. Then I'd note lunar Venus is 0:06 from partile square natal Mars. So in Fagan's methods, Venus is coming from outside, while Mars is both outside and inside.

Lunar Mars aspecting natal Mars can be impulsive as well as quick to anger. If you can buckle down, you can get a lot of work done, but you can get your nose broken too if you aren't careful. Transiting Venus calms things down, and I would think would allow for more focus because of that.

This might be doing battle with (former) friends. Or trying to avoid doing battle. I think it's important to remember this isn't just about a 79 year old. This is about the President of the US.

[Jim Eshelman]

Being about the president, of course, means his natal is a quasi-mundane chart and, yes, I could even interpret this as a war (or war-like) map - strained relations volatilized etc. I try with each of these interpretations to capture both that it's a man having his own lunar return and that it's a a quasi-mundane chart, nearly like another ingress.

I notice you caught each planet individually, and the Venus and Mars aspects to natal Mars, but didn't interpret the Venus-Mars conjunction itself. I think that's the linchpin, which is what inspired me to start this thread. (It's at least a good discussion topic, no?)

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

Yes it's a good topic. I was going off what's been said before about how to interpret aspects in regard to transits, which I think is a sorely neglected topic.

While the chart might also be semi-mundane, I think it's also important to remember Joe Biden IS the president, with all the attendant privileges and responsibilities that includes. It's not a mundane position. It's part of what Biden is right now.

[Jim Eshelman]

I meant "mundane" in the sense of mundane astrology, i.e., geo-political etc., not in the sense of "ordinary."

[Jupiter Sets at Dawn]

So did I.

[SteveS]

Its a double whammy of angular Venus-Mars with Natal Mars partile conjunct SLR Nadir. If we use your return teachings Jim where close angular Natal planets indicate how the native reacts to the return chart itself with its angular symbolism, Joe becomes angered (Mars) over some type of "strained relationship." If not a private matter, we definitely should see an "outstanding incident" involving Venus-Mars symbolism.

[Veronica]

yikes

well after reading this, looked at the Demi-Lunar (mental noted it is a demi..not lunar or solar)
thought about the people not in sexual relationships who go through this conjunction and how it could find expression, (ie nuns, priest, people entangled in following there non sexual bliss like writers, painters, scientists)

I would start by remembering the teachings by Marion Zimmer Bradley in her Earthshaking novel The Mists of Avalon. that chart reminds me of Arthur's first wedding.

[Veronica]

Jim you said

"but I don't think this aspect means that Joe and Jill will take two weeks to run off on a great sexual adventure together, "

why dont you think that?

imo that could be the most loving possible expression of the yearly conjunction of venus to mars

[Danica]

Allowing the circumstances, or even better: intentionally setting , for a for-all-involved mutually consensual, satisfactory and pleasurable sexual experience that fits the ‘flavor’ of the Ve-Ma combo, during such a Lunar as this — seems to me the best possible thing to do!

Why would someone’s age and social function (granted we’re speaking of psychologically healthy Human adults) be the determinant framework of their sexual experience and behavior?

This is a Scorpio Sun tightly conjuct Venus, rising; and Uranus is on DC: it’s a native whose naturally healthiest mode of operation is to be spontaneous, virile age notwithstanding, passionate and free (unrestrained by other people’s opinions on *when, where, how and whether* ) in their sexual expression.