Michael Jackson RIP
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Michael Jackson RIP
Michael Jackson suffered a heart attack this afternoon in Brentwood and was rushed to UCLA Medical Center where he was next reported in coma (3:15 PM report), and now is reported dead (3:24 PM report).
UPDATE ON TIME OF HEART ATTACK & DEATH: Paramedics arrived at 12:30 PM, in response to a 12:21 PM 911 call, to find his personal physician already applying CPR. CNN cites Jermaine as saying Michael was pronounced dead at 2:26 PM, about an hour earlier than the time for which charts were done below (see the exact Moon transit mentioned below is more indicative of the time when the world was first reacting to his death).
Here is the natus:
UPDATE ON TIME OF HEART ATTACK & DEATH: Paramedics arrived at 12:30 PM, in response to a 12:21 PM 911 call, to find his personal physician already applying CPR. CNN cites Jermaine as saying Michael was pronounced dead at 2:26 PM, about an hour earlier than the time for which charts were done below (see the exact Moon transit mentioned below is more indicative of the time when the world was first reacting to his death).
Here is the natus:
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Re: Michael Jackson RIP
TRANSITS AT TIME OF DEATH:
t. Neptune op. r. Mercury (14' ap.)
t. Jupiter op. r. Mercury (48' ap.)
t. Mars sq. r. Venus (24' sep.)
t. Moon conj. r. Venus (14' sep.)
Saturn was also approximately opposite his Moon and square his Ascendant, but not within the partile orb. He was also only a few days short of Mars conjoining its natal position.
SECONDARY PROGRESSIONS:
Progressed Moon was partile conjunct progressed Descendant (the Anaereta, or death degree); and from there was partile trine progressed Mars. This is characteristic of a crisis disease, rather than eventual death from a chronic disease as with Farrah.
Neither the Q1 nor Q2 quotidian angles were revelatory.
SOLAR RETURN
Michael's final SSR, from nearly a year ago, primarily brought natal stressors to the foreground: natal Mars on the IC, Uranus on the Westpoint, Neptune on the Zenith. His foreground natal Mars was exactly squared by transiting Neptune (which also was mere minutes from his natal MC). It's a stressed, pushed psychological state combined with weakness. (And solar Moon was primarily conjunct natal Venus, but also within orb of the Mars-Neptune aspect.)
This summer's ubiquitous Jupiter-Neptune conjunction was not only opposite Michael's Venus, then, but also opposite his solar Moon. Now, the Neptune-Moon aspect could enhance bizarre psychological states, but the Jupiter-Moon transit is unusual for sudden health crises.
LUNAR RETURN
Michael's June 15 SLR had transiting Pluto about a degree from the Midheaven.
KINETIC LUNAR RETURN
Yesterday, Michael had a Demi-KLR. It features Sun at the Midheaven opposite Pluto at the IC.
NOTE Friday 12:50 PM. I imagine, when the autopsy results are in, we'll find that Neptune's transit to his Mars was the main diagnostic element.
t. Neptune op. r. Mercury (14' ap.)
t. Jupiter op. r. Mercury (48' ap.)
t. Mars sq. r. Venus (24' sep.)
t. Moon conj. r. Venus (14' sep.)
Saturn was also approximately opposite his Moon and square his Ascendant, but not within the partile orb. He was also only a few days short of Mars conjoining its natal position.
SECONDARY PROGRESSIONS:
Progressed Moon was partile conjunct progressed Descendant (the Anaereta, or death degree); and from there was partile trine progressed Mars. This is characteristic of a crisis disease, rather than eventual death from a chronic disease as with Farrah.
Neither the Q1 nor Q2 quotidian angles were revelatory.
SOLAR RETURN
Michael's final SSR, from nearly a year ago, primarily brought natal stressors to the foreground: natal Mars on the IC, Uranus on the Westpoint, Neptune on the Zenith. His foreground natal Mars was exactly squared by transiting Neptune (which also was mere minutes from his natal MC). It's a stressed, pushed psychological state combined with weakness. (And solar Moon was primarily conjunct natal Venus, but also within orb of the Mars-Neptune aspect.)
This summer's ubiquitous Jupiter-Neptune conjunction was not only opposite Michael's Venus, then, but also opposite his solar Moon. Now, the Neptune-Moon aspect could enhance bizarre psychological states, but the Jupiter-Moon transit is unusual for sudden health crises.
LUNAR RETURN
Michael's June 15 SLR had transiting Pluto about a degree from the Midheaven.
KINETIC LUNAR RETURN
Yesterday, Michael had a Demi-KLR. It features Sun at the Midheaven opposite Pluto at the IC.
NOTE Friday 12:50 PM. I imagine, when the autopsy results are in, we'll find that Neptune's transit to his Mars was the main diagnostic element.
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Re: Michael Jackson RIP
A quote from a CNN article about Michael that bespeaks his Leo-Aquarius birthchart lucidly - valuable because it came from a non-astrologer. The article began,
He was lauded and ridiculed. He broke down barriers and built them around himself. He soared to heights unimaginable with his music, and he made the ignominious front page of gutter tabloids worldwide.
For Michael Jackson, the spotlight was always present, and the rest of the world followed.
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Re: Michael Jackson RIP
Some random remarks on the nativity...
Michael Jackson had a Leo Sun and Aquarius Moon. (These pretty much speak for themselves, but I'll also speak a bit on their behalf.) A small collection of 1960s rock-and-roll stand-out figures, published years ago, showed a significant bias toward Leo and Aquarius Suns. The themes of these signs are pretty obvious, from the mane to the electric to the eclectic...
And Michael, as a Leo, earned the title "King of Pop," even as Sagittarian Elvis Presley earned the "King of Rock & Roll" cognomen. (Both had Aquarius Moons, BTW.) He loved large, palatial homes every bit as much as The Sun King or Ludwig II. There was no lack of Leo in his temperament or style. But it was his Aquarius Moon that gave his life most of its color and controversy. (Even his Leo style-setting trends were Aquarian offbeat.)
The Aquarian Moon - as in the cases of DaVinci, Michelangelo, Bach, Goethe, Ben Franklin, and Aleister Crowley, for example - has frequently manifested as a genius of vast reach, sometimes barely able to be contained withn a human psyche. (And, sometimes, those psyches have been a bit destablized by this.) And, as some of the characters I just mentioned reflect, along with the genius routinely come personal tastes and choices that most of the world calls scandalous. It is no stretch to say that Michael was weird - he nearly defined that word for a while! - and, with no opinion expressed on whether he ever did anything illegal, there seems no doubt that, at the very least, his sexual interests were... atypical. (And with the characteristic Aquarius Moon age-difference theme being part of this.)
But the genius - and the overall impact of this double Hub - substantially co-ruled music and culture for a solid 5-10 years.
It is also no stretch to say that Michael had self-image issues. Look at the chart: Besides the Leo Sun, which put his image very high on the list of what mattered to him, his Aquarius Moon was minutes from the Zenith and closely squared by Saturn. You couldn't make up a better example of self-image problems!
Some other quick observations: The Sun-Pluto conjunction speaks to much of the above also, including his impact, his spirit as a social rebel, his tendency to go his own way and want to be left to do so, his isolation. Mercury foreground is common not for pop musicians in general, but for those who have major commercial success to the point of defining the commercial standard for many years.
Aquarius Moon angular, square Saturn, and sesquisquare Neptune is the mark of a "troubled soul." Venus foreground, conjunct Venus, square Mars, and trine Saturn corresponds to most of what's known about his sexuality (other than what the Aquarius Moon already addresses).
Jupiter is perhaps the least-present energy in this chart. It's background, undistinguished by sign, and, besides its conjunction with Neptune, most expressed through its sextile to Mercury. Michael's a good example of someone in whom the Jupiter ergie is not very active. At the very least, he wasn't held back by social convention or other people's definitions.
His Mars in Aries is shared with the likes of Madonna, Carole King, Belinda Carlisle - all women, and all having gigantic impact on pop music.
Michael Jackson had a Leo Sun and Aquarius Moon. (These pretty much speak for themselves, but I'll also speak a bit on their behalf.) A small collection of 1960s rock-and-roll stand-out figures, published years ago, showed a significant bias toward Leo and Aquarius Suns. The themes of these signs are pretty obvious, from the mane to the electric to the eclectic...
And Michael, as a Leo, earned the title "King of Pop," even as Sagittarian Elvis Presley earned the "King of Rock & Roll" cognomen. (Both had Aquarius Moons, BTW.) He loved large, palatial homes every bit as much as The Sun King or Ludwig II. There was no lack of Leo in his temperament or style. But it was his Aquarius Moon that gave his life most of its color and controversy. (Even his Leo style-setting trends were Aquarian offbeat.)
The Aquarian Moon - as in the cases of DaVinci, Michelangelo, Bach, Goethe, Ben Franklin, and Aleister Crowley, for example - has frequently manifested as a genius of vast reach, sometimes barely able to be contained withn a human psyche. (And, sometimes, those psyches have been a bit destablized by this.) And, as some of the characters I just mentioned reflect, along with the genius routinely come personal tastes and choices that most of the world calls scandalous. It is no stretch to say that Michael was weird - he nearly defined that word for a while! - and, with no opinion expressed on whether he ever did anything illegal, there seems no doubt that, at the very least, his sexual interests were... atypical. (And with the characteristic Aquarius Moon age-difference theme being part of this.)
But the genius - and the overall impact of this double Hub - substantially co-ruled music and culture for a solid 5-10 years.
It is also no stretch to say that Michael had self-image issues. Look at the chart: Besides the Leo Sun, which put his image very high on the list of what mattered to him, his Aquarius Moon was minutes from the Zenith and closely squared by Saturn. You couldn't make up a better example of self-image problems!
Some other quick observations: The Sun-Pluto conjunction speaks to much of the above also, including his impact, his spirit as a social rebel, his tendency to go his own way and want to be left to do so, his isolation. Mercury foreground is common not for pop musicians in general, but for those who have major commercial success to the point of defining the commercial standard for many years.
Aquarius Moon angular, square Saturn, and sesquisquare Neptune is the mark of a "troubled soul." Venus foreground, conjunct Venus, square Mars, and trine Saturn corresponds to most of what's known about his sexuality (other than what the Aquarius Moon already addresses).
Jupiter is perhaps the least-present energy in this chart. It's background, undistinguished by sign, and, besides its conjunction with Neptune, most expressed through its sextile to Mercury. Michael's a good example of someone in whom the Jupiter ergie is not very active. At the very least, he wasn't held back by social convention or other people's definitions.
His Mars in Aries is shared with the likes of Madonna, Carole King, Belinda Carlisle - all women, and all having gigantic impact on pop music.
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Re: Michael Jackson RIP
Venus_Daily wrote:Hello everyone, I was wondering, what is the most descriptive birth time that is on record for MJ, and I was wondering as well, can the recent events of a close friend accussing Michael Jackson of molestation, and Scott Thoronson claiming a 6 year old be shown in his SSRs despite the fact that he's dead.
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Re: Michael Jackson RIP
When I posted this originally, I thought the birth time was solid. In fact, there are quite a few different possibilities.
He was born August 29, 1958, in Gary, IN.
Siderealist Richard Gehman provided 7:54 AM CDT "from someone close to Michael."
Zip Dobyns got 1:30 AM "from a close friend of Michael's to a fellow astrologer."
At least three astrologers report being told 7:33 PM by Michael.
Taj Jackson (nephew) was also quoted as saying, "got the official word from Grandma herself. Uncle Michael was born at 7:33 PM."
Basil Fearrington wrote in 1998 that he had asked Michael (while working on a tour with him), and got this answer: "I will tell you as I told Jackie Onassis, all I know is that it was late in the evening, definitely after 10:30 PM." However, several people have questioned this report.
Other sources say: 3:00 AM ("from him"), 7:33 PM (from Michael to his astrologer), 12:09 PM (from Michael, claiming it was from his birth certificate; but it may not have been)
And there are, of course, various spectifications.
All of this makes for a most uncertain landscape, but the 7:33 PM time is the most quoted from the most reliable SOUNDING sources. I don't know that we can trust any of them, but I would go with 7:33 PM in theory.
The result chart gives him Saturn in the degree of the MC, Moon rising in Aquarius, Sun setting in Leo. In fact, the Mundoscope is quite fascinating, since it shows a mundane T-square of these three, definitely giving him a Sun-Moon opposition he doesn't have in the ecliptic:
Sun 28°13' in 6th
Moon 29°13' in 12th
Saturn 29°20' in 9th
Pluto 7°24' in 7th
Relocate the chart to Los Angeles, and you get Mars on the IC, Uranus conjunct Venus on the Westpoint, Neptune (and, widely, Jupiter) square the Ascendant.
He was born August 29, 1958, in Gary, IN.
Siderealist Richard Gehman provided 7:54 AM CDT "from someone close to Michael."
Zip Dobyns got 1:30 AM "from a close friend of Michael's to a fellow astrologer."
At least three astrologers report being told 7:33 PM by Michael.
Taj Jackson (nephew) was also quoted as saying, "got the official word from Grandma herself. Uncle Michael was born at 7:33 PM."
Basil Fearrington wrote in 1998 that he had asked Michael (while working on a tour with him), and got this answer: "I will tell you as I told Jackie Onassis, all I know is that it was late in the evening, definitely after 10:30 PM." However, several people have questioned this report.
Other sources say: 3:00 AM ("from him"), 7:33 PM (from Michael to his astrologer), 12:09 PM (from Michael, claiming it was from his birth certificate; but it may not have been)
And there are, of course, various spectifications.
All of this makes for a most uncertain landscape, but the 7:33 PM time is the most quoted from the most reliable SOUNDING sources. I don't know that we can trust any of them, but I would go with 7:33 PM in theory.
The result chart gives him Saturn in the degree of the MC, Moon rising in Aquarius, Sun setting in Leo. In fact, the Mundoscope is quite fascinating, since it shows a mundane T-square of these three, definitely giving him a Sun-Moon opposition he doesn't have in the ecliptic:
Sun 28°13' in 6th
Moon 29°13' in 12th
Saturn 29°20' in 9th
Pluto 7°24' in 7th
Relocate the chart to Los Angeles, and you get Mars on the IC, Uranus conjunct Venus on the Westpoint, Neptune (and, widely, Jupiter) square the Ascendant.
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Re: Michael Jackson RIP
Testing this chart for his death...
When he died, Saturn was 21°27' Leo, in partile opposition to this Moon.
His final SSR had Saturn within a degree of the Midheaven (but MC and Saturn less than 5° from his Sun). Moon opposed Neptune.
His SLR was not a good chart for the event.
The SQ has solar Pluto exactly on the IC and exactly square the Ascendant.
The time looks pretty good.
When he died, Saturn was 21°27' Leo, in partile opposition to this Moon.
His final SSR had Saturn within a degree of the Midheaven (but MC and Saturn less than 5° from his Sun). Moon opposed Neptune.
His SLR was not a good chart for the event.
The SQ has solar Pluto exactly on the IC and exactly square the Ascendant.
The time looks pretty good.
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Re: Michael Jackson RIP
Venus_Daily wrote:looked at the chart, nothing pops out. What's been your experience Jim, if you don't mind me asking, have you noticed any post mortem astrological indicators?
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Re: Michael Jackson RIP
I've looked for these on several occasions, and have never been impressed. One would think, for example, that a newly released production of Elvis numbers hat tops the charts on release (and doesn't correspond to some artificial anniversary like, say, the 30th anniversary of his death) would show some nice spike I haven't seen it. Lincoln's chart didn't show anything extraordinary for the highly successful release of Lincoln last year. And so forth.
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Re: Michael Jackson RIP
Venus_Daily wrote:It's very odd, these results have really dorn down a few theories that I had about astrology and reality. Hopefully, this is not a confirmation that Atheism is the way to go
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Re: Michael Jackson RIP
I'm exactly sure what that means, but consider this: A horoscope doesn't exist for a person before they are born (whatever teir reality). It is triggered by the first breath of a particular physical body. Why should it survive the last breath of that body?Venus_Daily wrote:It's very odd, these results have really dorn down a few theories that I had about astrology and reality. Hopefully, this is not a confirmation that Atheism is the way to go
BTW, this would also explain the extreme lack of partile hard-aspects (i.e., transits) one routinely finds between successive charts for the best documented cases of reincarnation. Often one will find other patterns - replication of natal content that needs to be revisited, for example - but not transits. The new birth does not appear to be an "event" in the life of the prior person.
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Re: Michael Jackson RIP
Venus_Daily wrote:Wow Jim, you mention this and leave us hanging, you must post some examples or somethingBTW, this would also explain the extreme lack of partile hard-aspects (i.e., transits) one routinely finds between successive charts for the best documented cases of reincarnation.
I was watching in episode of through the wormhole as well, and found it interesting that some scientists believe that we don't develop a consciousness until four years of age, and some cultures don't consider anyone to be alive until they are teens-
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Re: Michael Jackson RIP
The case for author Barbro Karlen being the reincarnation of Anne Frank is as solid as any. In this case, the charts are similar - show very similar life paths - but one isn't a transit to the other. (I thought I'd posted her data here, but can't find it. I'll dig it out when I'm on my other computer later this week.)
Wait, here it is. With no source to confirm, the birth data I have for Barbro Karlen is May 24, 1954, 7:20 am, Goetenborg, Sweden. Anne Frank was born June 12, 1929, 07:30 AM, Frankfurt am Main, Germany.
In this case the similarity makes sense because it is interpreted that Barbro was finishing out the life Anne never got the chance to complete.
Wait, here it is. With no source to confirm, the birth data I have for Barbro Karlen is May 24, 1954, 7:20 am, Goetenborg, Sweden. Anne Frank was born June 12, 1929, 07:30 AM, Frankfurt am Main, Germany.
In this case the similarity makes sense because it is interpreted that Barbro was finishing out the life Anne never got the chance to complete.
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Re: Michael Jackson RIP
Yesterday (October 2, 2013) the jury returned a verdict in the Jackson family civil suit against concert promotor AEG, effectively finding AEG not responsible for Michael's death.
The jury was called in at 3:30 PM (in downtown Los Angeles), and the verdict was read a few minutes later.
The jury was called in at 3:30 PM (in downtown Los Angeles), and the verdict was read a few minutes later.
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Re: Michael Jackson RIP
Of what? His natal? No, since he's dead I wouldn't expect that to show and didn't bother. I was only interested in it as a mundane astrology event: Celebrity mega-event for the Los Angeles area.Venus_Daily wrote:did you see anything in the transits or progressed SSR
I've met Katherine Jackson, but don't have her chart, which is the one that would have been worth studying as an individual chart.
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