Is the Novien a health chart?

[Jim Eshelman]

Nothing known to me in Hindu tradition suggests that the Navamsa is specifically a health chart, nor am I alleging, with this thread, that this is the case. I am, however, asking the question. The Novien seems specifically a lunar chart, so this is a possibility in the same sense that lunar returns often seem substantially health charts. In another thread, I raised the question:

In theory, this lunar layer of the psyche would also pertain to other instinctual matters such as survival and the way subconsciousness manages our health. I haven't been able to confirm that the Novien is a health chart, nor is that part of its tradition, but I mention this.

I've started looking at this through a few charts with serious, distinct, dramatic health issues. I don't have a great collection of these, but I have a few. I'm not interested in pretty routine health considerations, and prefer conditions that arise intrinsically more than from interaction with the world. So far, I've not come up with much except where behavior or events triggered something (more often injuries than sicknesses). For example, Christopher Reeve's Novien played up his Mars-Uranus for accidents in a significant way.

As I come across any striking examples one way or the other, I'll add them here.

[Jim Eshelman]

Actor Dudley Moore died of (complications of) a degenerative brain disease. All the main issues involved his brain, including four strokes and irreversible frontal lobe damage. His fatal diagnosis was "the terminal degenerative brain disorder progressive supranuclear palsy (PSP), a Parkinson-plus syndrome."

I would expect neurological impact based on Mercury aspects, and/or critical positions in the Aries-Libra axis for the head (especially Libra). In his nativity, we see some indications of this, including a Libra Moon and Aries Sun. Moon is unaspected except for a trine to Saturn. Sun conjoins Uranus. Mercury is moderately foreground but with no close aspects. Mars rises in the mercurial sign Virgo.

So... areas of vulnerability were shown but no outright afflictions that would alert us.

His Novien does, however, bring greater stress in all the right places for this kind of degeneration. I think the most important indication is Novien Neptune 0°29' from square that Libra Moon - officially turning it into an afflicted Libra Moon with afflictions taking a Neptune form. Something abrupt (and perhaps tying to the strokes) is his natal Aries Sun opposite a partile Novien Mars-Uranus conjunction. With slightly wider orbs, that rising natal Mars is atop a Novien Moon-Sun square. Finally, natal Pluto conjunct Novien Mercury closely is a clear sign of neurological disorder.

So... it's not a slam-dunk, but several things are present, of which Neptune exactly square his Libra Moon is the most compelling, perhaps with the Mercury-Pluto aspect. Other things are representative and "in the right direction."

[Jim Eshelman]

Thinking of Mercury-Pluto and brain damage reminded me I should check Robin Williams' chart. The once-in-a-lifetime comedian's suicide was consequent to a deteriorating psychological condition caused by diffuse Lewy body dementia, following an earlier Parkinson's diagnosis.

I thought of him because his nativity had Mercury conjunct Pluto straddling MC. Besides this (impacting him neurologically, I suspect, while simultaneously showing his great genius), there is little in the chart that suggests this disease to me. Perhaps his Mars-Uranus conjunction for the motor skills impact. So much of the chart speaks of his entertainment genius (his partile Moon-Venus opposition surely drove the whole chart positive to give him a way to express that Mercury-Pluto, Mars-Uranus, and Aquarius Moon).

Turning to the Novien, the first thing I notice is that - like Dudley Moore - his Novien Moon is in Gemini. I'm not inclined to credit this with anything, but needed to mention it. The other first thing I notice is a close Sun-Saturn opposition, an aspect of great comedians but also of potentially great suffering.

From a health diagnostic point of view, the Novien has one striking feature: His Gemini Novien Moon closely conjoined natal Mars and (just a little more widely) Uranus. The Novien Moon sign need not be given any credit in this since natal Mars is in Gemini as well. The Novien Moon is heavily aspected by the natal, including a partile square to natal Jupiter, 1°22' conjunction with natal Mars, 2°13' conjunction with natal Uranus, and 3°36' square with natal Neptune. These show the entertainer, the wit, the pain, and the weirdness - it's a good character description. It does, though, also give some hint of the health matter, showing an afflicted Moon with Gemini involved.

I have to mention that Fagan's tending to read Novien Moon's different aspects as though they were distinct angles gets some support here. One can take Jupiter's square as akin to MC for his career, Mars' conjunction as akin to Asc for his physical and psychological health, and Neptune's square as akin to IC for his private hell.

One other Novien-to-natal to mention is a partile square between the two Saturns.

From this chart, on the question of health, I conclude that the afflictions to Moon are the right type and in the right place to explain neurological erosion and other symptoms of these conditions. His natal gives us enough to rest comfortably that astrology was reflecting his universe correctly, but not enough to feel triumphant; the Novien makes it stronger.

[Jim Eshelman]

Senator Kennedy died of brain cancer. Mostly, I don't see the potential leaping off his birth chart, except for the partile Mercury-Mars conjunction which I've seen more for stroke but, in general, is consistent with damage to the brain or nerves. Does the Novien do any better?

On first impression, I see his Novien Moon conjunct Neptune and opposing Uranus. This could be interpreted in many meaningful ways, and is very broadly an afflicted Moon, but it doesn't speak to me of brain cancer; and, in any case, the Moon-Neptune conjunction is just the 0°18' conjunction from his nativity with a wider orb.

Adding the natal doesn't improve it so, this time, I'm going to say: No, nothing here to see, keep moving.

[Jim Eshelman]

President Roosevelt's polio and its impact on his life is usually credited to his Capricorn Sun. Since it is a central nervous system disease (in its advanced form), his 0°10' Mercury-Pluto square (there's another one!) is also implicated, and perhaps his 0°01' Venus-Saturn square.

But his Novien also shows disability and limits. We'd expect that Venus-Saturn square to stay (with a slightly larger orb) in the Novien, but what greets us is Moon closely joined in: In the Novien, Moon opposes Saturn and squares Venus closely. Also, primarily showing his political and practical capabilities but also showing nervous system damage, his Novien has a Mercury-Mars-Jupiter conjunction square Pluto, more than enough to trigger nervous system damage (and mostly close orbs, Mercury-Mars being < 2°).

Natal-to-Novien adds a bit to the Moon-Saturn etc. but my eye first catches his natal Mercury-Pluto atop Novien Neptune - adding disability to the Mercury-Pluto symbolism. (But also inspiration and other characteristics.) His natal Venus-Saturn is exactly on his Novien Sun (which just emphasizes it a third way, so perhaps is not independent). For an infectious disease, natal Mars squares Novien Mars.

What I see here is that, foremost, these aspects are describing his character and doing it very well. Second, while the nativity is borderline on showing the disease, the Novien shows well the impact of it on his life. Third, the Novien is brilliant overall and adds some small emphasis and focus that seem to enhance the disease profile (especially the Mercury damage).

[Jim Eshelman]

I guess I'm on a roll of similar (but different) afflictions. Glen Campbell suffered and died from Alzheimer's disease. We don't really know the astrological profile of the disease, so it's hard to say what I expect. Nothing in the natal seems to speak of it to me, though there are several strong, interesting things.

ADDENDUM 1/20/24: We're very close to a profile now (though it would be nice to narrow it further). I wrote a section on it in CSA. Every major case I've seen has a clearly afflicted Mars, though the afflictions can take many forms. Campbell had a partile Mercury-Mars conjunction foreground and - just sticking with Mercury-Mars for the moment - we find Estelle Getty, Peter Falk, and Joanne Woodward with close Mercury-Mars conjunctions, and Sean Connery and Burgess Meredith with the square.

The Novien introduces something cogent, though - taking the chart as a whole as inherently lunar, and not relying on Moon itself. Even though we don't know the profile for Alzheimer's, a close Mercury-Neptune square surely is related to its effects. Another strong aspect, Mars opposite Saturn, probably shows much of Campbell's life overall but also fits my picture (right or wrong picture) of Alzheimer's.

[Jim Eshelman]

King Henry VIII's latter years had numerous serious medical issues. A jousting accident is credited with causing much of this - a wound that wouldn't heal, pus-filled ulcerations, obesity from one or another cause - all of which led to an earlier death (age 55).

His nativity is a wonder to study in many ways, and both the best and worst of his temperament plus possibly medical issues were fed by an important Mars-Jupiter-Neptune T-square. (If there was a head injury from the jousting accident, the blunt blow would be connected to his background Mercury-Saturn opposition.) Other support factors for indolence and indulgence include a Pisces Moon plus Venus culminating in Taurus.

His Novien, on first impression, is a marvelous chart for the great king and artist, with Sun opposite Jupiter and moon square Venus foremost. They do not, though, directly address his health concerns, which were infectious and inflammatory. Nor do I think natal-to-Novien aspects overly really address his health concerns, though they show remarkable other details, e.g., natal Venus on Novien Pluto for his famous troubles and blunt solutions regarding wives and children. (There is more, but this isn't a general analysis of the Novien, just a fishing expedition regarding his health.)

The Sun-Jupiter in the Novien could be a direct mark of obesity, which was connected to all the rest. Other aspects are consistent with his accident, but that's not what I'm seeking now either. Natal Mercury-Saturn aspects his Novien Mars-Saturn, which gives some credence to the head injury theory (but it's only a theory). The one infectious, inflammatory thing is the slightly wider Mars square Mercury-Saturn in the Novien.

Mostly, though, the only "health problem" I see very clearly in all of this is indulgence with consequent obesity compromising his other systems. Not a good example IMHO.

[Jim Eshelman]

Besides President Kennedy's serious back injury (a common thing in his family among the sons that had Leo Moons), he had Addison's disease, an adrenal insufficiency diseases. Hormone imbalances seem a product of Moon-Venus, and his partile Moon-Venus square is well-known. Other suspect things in his chart include the depressing and suppressive effect of his culminating Saturn-Neptune conjunction and the triple Mercury-Mars-Jupiter conjunction that might connect to adrenals specifically.

The Novien is helpful, though. His natal Moon-Venus meant many things, including his celebrity-like popularity. But real affliction enters (which can be interpreted MANY ways, given the outcome of his life) by the half-degree Moon-Saturn square in the Novien.

The natal chart shows affliction and hardship anyway, but it's not overwhelmingly strong. In the Novien, it's very strong and specific! This isn't just a health statement, it affects wider conditions (but it may also be a health statement). There are several other indications consistent with his murder and place in history - natal Pluto square Novien Sun, natal Mercury-Mars to Novien Jupiter-Pluto - but nothing specific about his specific disease unless it's the general statement of an exact Moon-Saturn square.

[Jim Eshelman]

Linda McCartney died of breast cancer that metathesized to her liver. Before looking at her chart, I expected especially liver-related signals. Her nativity has Mars in Pisces, which rules the liver.

Her Novien Moon is 0°03' from square Neptune. This, of course, refers to so many things including her connection to music and her animal activism. We've also been seeing Neptune as an afflicter of Moon for serious diseases. There are numerous other important, fitting things in her Novien but none that make me think they refer to the major disease of her life. (Natal Neptune is also on her Novien Moon, doubling the symbolism.)

[Jim Eshelman]

Ronstadt has been living with degenerative supranuclear palsy which initially took her singing voice from her late in life. I don't see anything in the nativity suggesting this unless it's a Mercury-Pluto conjunction much wider than we've been seeing for these serious neurological diseases. (Oh, wait, it's there: Mundanely, the conjunction is about 2° and closely opposes Moon a few minutes from the midpoint.)

Her Novien adds nothing unless a Mercury-Neptune square is implicated. (My current opinion is that the Moon-Mercury-Pluto in the nativity is better.)

[Jim Eshelman]

Fox famously has - and continues to live and work with - Parkinson's disease. Again we have a case of a neurological disease (I'm surprised how easy these have been to find in contrast to other disease patterns). From his natal, we find Moon in Aries square Saturn and mundanely opposite Neptune; and a closely foreground Mars-Uranus square. The latter, in particular, seems right for a central nervous system affliction that primarily affects locomotor musculature, creates spasm and undesired firing off of neurons, etc. (I'm not sure if it's a signature, but it's a fine description of the symptoms.)

His Novien has a common cause of disability that I've seen in Noviens: A close Saturn-Neptune conjunction. It also has a Sun-Mars opposition, and one theory of Parkinson's is that there is too much energy firing off. Actually, all three malefics are squeezed in a 5° zone that just happens to be in Gemini and might lead one to think they would be afflicting his nervous system. (I'm not sure we can count on any sign symbolism in Noviens, though.)

Oh, tying it all together, natal and Novien Moons are opposite so natal Saturn also squares Novien Moon. For someone with so much success, there is a huge amount of Saturn and general mark of life-affliction. This has primarily been only through his disease, though the disease itself may not show as much its impact on him.

Ah, wait, there it is: For a neurological disorder, natal Mercury conjoins the Novien Saturn-Neptune conjunction!

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

Nothing known to me in Hindu tradition suggests that the Navamsa is specifically a health chart, nor am I alleging, with this thread, that this is the case. I am, however, asking the question. The Novien seems specifically a lunar chart, so this is a possibility in the same sense that lunar returns often seem substantially health charts. In another thread, I raised the question:
In theory, this lunar layer of the psyche would also pertain to other instinctual matters such as survival and the way subconsciousness manages our health. I haven't been able to confirm that the Novien is a health chart, nor is that part of its tradition, but I mention this.

Jim, In the book "The Golden Dawn" # 9 is the number for the Moon! I beleive this to be true but certainly can't be explained in a scientific manner. We already know how important the aspects of the Moon is pertaining to health. I beleive your topic here to be very important! Fagan beleived the # 9 was a very important prophetic number and when apllied to health it becomes very important, IMHO.

BTW, look at Matthew Q (RIP) Natal and you will notice his near partile Moon 90 Mars is Vargottama explaining to me his car accident and subsequent amputation of a leg. No doubt in my mind the Novien would be a very important chart to look at for possible health problems with malefic aspects. And Vargottama is derived from the 1,5,9 th navasmas, with navasma/novien being related to the # 9.

[Jim Eshelman]

Jim, In the book "The Golden Dawn" # 9 is the number for the Moon! I beleive this to be true but certainly can't be explained in a scientific manner.

Yes. The Golden Dawn used Qabbalah to structure its workings, and 9 is the number of the Moon in Qabbalah. - You'll find this in many of my other writings in text and illustrations.

We already know how important the aspects of the Moon is pertaining to health. I beleive your topic here to be very important!

Theoretically, it seems so. I'm not overly impressed by most of these examples - they're "good enough" without being slam dunks - but they're good enough to keep me looking.

BTW, look at Matthew Q (RIP) Natal and you will notice his near partile Moon 90 Mars is Vargottama explaining to me his car accident and subsequent amputation of a leg.

Matthew's life-redefining car accident and its eventual effect on his leg is shown quite well in his nativity by his near-partile Moon-Mars square with Moon in Gemini - which rules the legs! He also has terribly important other Mercury aspects (with Mercury his most angular planet) that can be interpreted this way (whether for the automobile part or the eventual impact on his mobility and transformation of his life into a digital communication world). All of these also show simply his character and abilities, not just health "events."

I don't see overly much in his Novien, except the one interesting thing of Novien Pluto closely aspecting his natal Sun-Mercury-Saturn-Uranus clump and Novien Mars conjunct natal Pluto. (On a more personal note, we shared Novien Moon-signs, which seems a mark of sympatico, and his Novien Sun opposed my Moon.)

BTW, I found myself recently wishing Matthew could have lived to see TMSA. All the data on his own chart was obtainable by him in other ways, but it comes together so quickly and easily in TMSA and makes things clear that you have to dig for otherwise. Here's Matthew's chart from TMSA:

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
Mo 28Ge40'33" 04S33 +12°54' 113°37' 17N04 320°37' -21°27' 148°14'   0%  
Su 02Le40'26" 00S00 + 0°58' 148°50' 12N39 290°30' - 3°36' 176°10'  96% F
Me 03Le42'47" 01N45 + 1°59' 150°27' 13N57 290°19' - 1°34' 178°20'  99% F
Ve 04Vi52'42" 00N54 + 1°12' 179°15' 01N18 261°42' +11°08' 191°14'  73%  
Ma 27Pi37'48" 04S23 + 0°14'  21°34' 04N21  60°57' -22°50'  25°43'  49%  
Ju 23Ta30'43" 00S41 + 0°09'  76°25' 22N10 359°01' -26°06'  92°00'  99% F
Sa 04Ta12'22" 02S11 + 0°02'  56°23' 17N37  20°41' -28°06'  56°31'   1%  
Ur 06Ta18'39" 00S13 + 0°01'  58°07' 19N59  18°12' -26°14'  57°37'   0%  
Ne 02Vi22'04" 01N15 + 0°02' 177°06' 02N37 264°10' +10°24' 190°28'  74%  
Pl 10Cn38'45" 04N19 + 0°02' 128°02' 23N18 312°26' - 8°49' 168°08'  66%  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Class 1 Aspects         Class 2 Aspects         Class 3 Aspects     
Mo sq Ma 01°03' 98%      Mo sx Ne 03°42' 74%       Mo sx Ve 06°12' 30%  
Mo sq Sa 01°43' 94% M    Su tr Ma 05°03' 52%       Me tr Ma 06°05' 32%  
Mo sq Ur 00°37' 99% M    Su sq Ju 05°50' 37% M     Sa sx Pl 06°26' 24%  
Su co Me 01°02' 99%      Su sq Ur 03°38' 75%                            
Su sq Sa 01°32' 95%      Me sq Ju 03°40' 74% M                          
Me sq Sa 00°30'100%      Ve sx Pl 05°46' 39%                            
Me sq Ur 02°36' 87%      Ma sx Ju 04°07' 68%                            
Ve tr Sa 00°40' 99%      Ur tr Ne 03°57' 70%                            
Ve tr Ur 01°26' 96%      Ur sx Pl 04°20' 64%                            
Ve co Ne 00°47' 99% M                                                   
Sa co Ur 01°06' 98% M                                                   
Sa tr Ne 01°50' 93%                                                     
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              Cosmic State                              
Mo Ge  B | sq Ur 00°37'M   sq Ma 01°03'    sq Sa 01°43'M   sx Ne 03°42'    
         | sx Ve 06°12'    
         |    Me/Ju 04'd      Me/Mc 28'd      Su/Ju 35'd      Su/Mc 59'd   
Su Le+ F | co Me 01°02'    sq Sa 01°32'    sq Ur 03°38'    tr Ma 05°03'    
         | sq Ju 05°50'M   
         |    Mo/Ve 54'd   
Me Le  F | Mo Ge+
         | sq Sa 00°30'    co Su 01°02'    sq Ur 02°36'    sq Ju 03°40'M   
         | tr Ma 06°05'    
Ve Vi-   | tr Sa 00°40'    co Ne 00°47'M   tr Ur 01°26'    sx Pl 05°46'    
         | sx Mo 06°12'    
         |    Ma/As 38'd   
Ma Pi    | sq Mo 01°03'    sx Ju 04°07'    tr Su 05°03'    tr Me 06°05'    
         |    Su/Mc 03'd      Su/Ju 28'd      Me/Mc 34'd      Me/Ju 59'd   
Ju Ta  F | Mo Ge-
         | sq Me 03°40'M   sx Ma 04°07'    sq Su 05°50'M   
         |    Ve/As 38'd   
Sa Ta  B | sq Me 00°30'    tr Ve 00°40'    co Ur 01°06'M   sq Su 01°32'    
         | sq Mo 01°43'M   tr Ne 01°50'    sx Pl 06°26'    
Ur Ta  B | Su Le-
         | sq Mo 00°37'M   co Sa 01°06'M   tr Ve 01°26'    sq Me 02°36'    
         | sq Su 03°38'    tr Ne 03°57'    sx Pl 04°20'    
         |    Ne/Pl 12'd      Su/As 28'd      Me/As 59'd   
Ne Vi-   | co Ve 00°47'M   tr Sa 01°50'    sx Mo 03°42'    tr Ur 03°57'    
         |    Mo/Ur 08'd      Mo/Sa 56'd   
Pl Cn    | sx Ur 04°20'    sx Ve 05°46'    sx Sa 06°26'    
As Aq    |
Mc Sc    |    Ve/As 11'd

[SteveS]

Jim wrote:

BTW, I found myself recently wishing Matthew could have lived to see TMSA. All the data on his own chart was obtainable by him in other ways, but it comes together so quickly and easily in TMSA and makes things clear that you have to dig for otherwise. Here's Matthew's chart from TMSA:

Indeed Jim. Matthew would have been delighted to see TMSA coming together.

[Jim Eshelman]

UPDATE 1/20/24: With subsequent work in medical astrology, I accept that the natal alone accounts for this. The Libra Moon, even unafflicted, points to the right body part - we now have SO many examples of brain damage and disease with Libra Moons - and he has a foreground Mercury-Pluto square with 2°, now known to be common for this sort of illness. Even if the Novien adds something, it isn't at all essential for the diagnosis.

Actor Dudley Moore died of (complications of) a degenerative brain disease. All the main issues involved his brain, including four strokes and irreversible frontal lobe damage. His fatal diagnosis was "the terminal degenerative brain disorder progressive supranuclear palsy (PSP), a Parkinson-plus syndrome."

I would expect neurological impact based on Mercury aspects, and/or critical positions in the Aries-Libra axis for the head (especially Libra). In his nativity, we see some indications of this, including a Libra Moon and Aries Sun. Moon is unaspected except for a trine to Saturn. Sun conjoins Uranus. Mercury is moderately foreground but with no close aspects. Mars rises in the mercurial sign Virgo.

So... areas of vulnerability were shown but no outright afflictions that would alert us.

His Novien does, however, bring greater stress in all the right places for this kind of degeneration. I think the most important indication is Novien Neptune 0°29' from square that Libra Moon - officially turning it into an afflicted Libra Moon with afflictions taking a Neptune form. Something abrupt (and perhaps tying to the strokes) is his natal Aries Sun opposite a partile Novien Mars-Uranus conjunction. With slightly wider orbs, that rising natal Mars is atop a Novien Moon-Sun square. Finally, natal Pluto conjunct Novien Mercury closely is a clear sign of neurological disorder.

So... it's not a slam-dunk, but several things are present, of which Neptune exactly square his Libra Moon is the most compelling, perhaps with the Mercury-Pluto aspect. Other things are representative and "in the right direction."

[Jim Eshelman]

CONSIDERATIONS 1/20/24: We probably don't need more than the Mercury-Pluto conjunction straddling Midheaven. Its biggest weakness as a medical diagnostic is that it is foreground, and most medical diagnostic aspects aren't foreground. Occasionally, though, an aspect so dominates the whole of a life that it accounts for more or less everything, and I have no problem accepting that Robin Williams' culminating Mercury-Pluto conjunction (combined with his luminary signs for his character traits) is that sort of aspect.

Thinking of Mercury-Pluto and brain damage reminded me I should check Robin Williams' chart. The once-in-a-lifetime comedian's suicide was consequent to a deteriorating psychological condition caused by diffuse Lewy body dementia, following an earlier Parkinson's diagnosis.

I thought of him because his nativity had Mercury conjunct Pluto straddling MC. Besides this (impacting him neurologically, I suspect, while simultaneously showing his great genius), there is little in the chart that suggests this disease to me. Perhaps his Mars-Uranus conjunction for the motor skills impact. So much of the chart speaks of his entertainment genius (his partile Moon-Venus opposition surely drove the whole chart positive to give him a way to express that Mercury-Pluto, Mars-Uranus, and Aquarius Moon).

Turning to the Novien, the first thing I notice is that - like Dudley Moore - his Novien Moon is in Gemini. I'm not inclined to credit this with anything, but needed to mention it. The other first thing I notice is a close Sun-Saturn opposition, an aspect of great comedians but also of potentially great suffering.

From a health diagnostic point of view, the Novien has one striking feature: His Gemini Novien Moon closely conjoined natal Mars and (just a little more widely) Uranus. The Novien Moon sign need not be given any credit in this since natal Mars is in Gemini as well. The Novien Moon is heavily aspected by the natal, including a partile square to natal Jupiter, 1°22' conjunction with natal Mars, 2°13' conjunction with natal Uranus, and 3°36' square with natal Neptune. These show the entertainer, the wit, the pain, and the weirdness - it's a good character description. It does, though, also give some hint of the health matter, showing an afflicted Moon with Gemini involved.

I have to mention that Fagan's tending to read Novien Moon's different aspects as though they were distinct angles gets some support here. One can take Jupiter's square as akin to MC for his career, Mars' conjunction as akin to Asc for his physical and psychological health, and Neptune's square as akin to IC for his private hell.

One other Novien-to-natal to mention is a partile square between the two Saturns.

From this chart, on the question of health, I conclude that the afflictions to Moon are the right type and in the right place to explain neurological erosion and other symptoms of these conditions. His natal gives us enough to rest comfortably that astrology was reflecting his universe correctly, but not enough to feel triumphant; the Novien makes it stronger.

[Jim Eshelman]

UPDATE 1/20/24: If I had included Ted Kennedy's chart in the medical astrology chapter of CSA, I would have highlighted his afflicted Leo Moon - a trait among his generation of Kennedy men, each of whom had terrible back injuries matching Leo - and his Mercury-Mars conjunction for alcoholism and other things. By now, we've seen so many examples of Mercury-Mars meaning simply brain damage - which is probably an important part of the meaning behind its presence for drug and alcohol addiction - that his dying from brain damage is no mystery. But why cancer? My conclusion in CSA is that we don't yet have a formula for recognizing cancer vulnerability, perhaps because cancer is actually many different diseases, although Pluto seems to have a strong hand in it, perhaps connected to cell production themes mixed with long-term confrontation of mortality. Kennedy had a foreground Pluto, but only moderately strong. The mundoscope, which for some reason I didn't check in these examples, does take all the right-leaning factors above and tie them together. The Sun-Mercury-Mars tightens orb and is in a reasonable (but not excessively close) connection to his Moon-Neptune, which makes a much more impressive health signal than what the ecliptic chart shows (all within 6°; and accepting his Moon aspects to Mars, Mercury, and Sun is no stretch when considering his character):

28°10' H1 - Mars
29°31' H1 - Mercury
29°47' H1 - Sun
2°48' H8 - Neptune
3°29' H8 - Moon

So his natal does seem to have dotted all the I's and crossed all the T's that we know about and the Novien had nothing to contribute anyway.

Senator Kennedy died of brain cancer. Mostly, I don't see the potential leaping off his birth chart, except for the partile Mercury-Mars conjunction which I've seen more for stroke but, in general, is consistent with damage to the brain or nerves. Does the Novien do any better?

On first impression, I see his Novien Moon conjunct Neptune and opposing Uranus. This could be interpreted in many meaningful ways, and is very broadly an afflicted Moon, but it doesn't speak to me of brain cancer; and, in any case, the Moon-Neptune conjunction is just the 0°18' conjunction from his nativity with a wider orb.

Adding the natal doesn't improve it so, this time, I'm going to say: No, nothing here to see, keep moving.

[Jim Eshelman]

Especially after reviewing this thread again, I don't think we can call the Novien a health chart.

What I do see by adding the Novien are descriptions of character traits and life circumstances that have their own effects on health sometimes, but aren't "health vulnerability" markers on their own. For example, several of these examples show unusual suffering or struggle where the natal does not, or a tendency to accident where that became a health-impacting theme. Yet this is quite different from the direct health vulnerability markers we've been able to track in the nativity.

I also know a lot more - or have brought a lot more into perspective with each other - about medical astrology compared to when I started this thread. Some of the uncertainties in the natals are now much clearer.

When I rule out the indirect inferences of sickness and injury and look only at the direct signals of illness, the natal (including, of course, the mundoscope) cover most things clearly while the Novien overall adds nothing. (Seemingly contribution aspects are rare and likely random, based on astrology's elasticity.)