TMSA Defaults

[mikestar13]

The current defaults:

Natal
Eris: yes
Sedna: no
Vertex: no
Node: not used
Show all aspects
Angularity model: background centered at cadent cusps
Mark background: yes
Ecliptical aspects (obs in degrees for classes 1, 2, and 3)":
Conjunction and opposition: 3.0, 7.0, 10.0
Square, Trine, and Sextile: 3.0, 6.0, 7.5
Octile: 1.0, 2.0
Inconjuct: not used
Mundane aspects (orb in degrees...):
Conjunction, opposition, and square: 3.0
Octile: not used
Midpoints: not used

Student Natal:
Eris and class 3 aspects not used, otherwise same as natal.

Solunars
Eris: yes
Sedna: no
Vertex: no
Node: not used
Aspects: both planets foreground, non-foreground partile, moon (for solar returns)
Angularity model: background centered at cadent cusps
Mark background: yes
Ecliptical aspects (obs in degrees...):
Conjunction, opposition, and square: 3.0
Trine, Sextile, Octile,and Inconjunct: not used
Mundane aspects (orb in degrees...):
Conjunction, opposition, and square: 3.0
Octile: not used
Midpoints: not used

Ingresses
Eris: yes
Sedna: no
Vertex: no
Node: not used
Aspects: at least one planet foreground, non-foreground partile, moon
Angularity model: background centered at mid-quadrant
Mark background: yes
Ecliptical aspects (obs in degrees...):
Conjunction, opposition, and square: 3.0
Trine, Sextile, Octile,and Inconjunct: not used
Mundane aspects (orb in degrees...):
Conjunction, opposition, and square: 3.0
Octile: not used
Midpoints: mundane, 60' orb

Cosmobiology
Eris: no
Sedna: no
Vertex: no
Node: true node
Show all aspects
Angularity model: background centered at mid-quadrant
Mark background: yes
Ecliptical aspects (obs in degrees for classes 1, 2, and 3)":
Conjunction, opposition, and square: 3.0, 5.0
Trine, Sextile, Octile,and Inconjunct: not used
Mundane aspects: not used
Midpoints:
0, 45, and 90 degrees: 60' orb
90 midpoints considered indirect


Are there any of these defaults that should be changed for version 0.5? Any new default sets? All options user selectable, except moon aspects in SSRs and ingresses, which are hard coded (but could be made optional, but on by default).

[Jim Eshelman]

The list remains solid - even though several of these things differ from what I personally use, I still think it's the best default for the widest range of users.

A couple of things:

Ingresses
Aspects: at least one planet foreground, non-foreground partile, moon

Non-foreground partile should be off. These aren't looked at in ingresses (except as a very minor factor for complicated scenario you wouldn't catch, viz., partile mundane aspects where there is no ecliptical aspect). - This is only used as a "fine polish" and only when it doesn't interfere with the flow of the meaning of the other factors, so it makes sense to have this off by default.

Cosmobiology
Angularity model: background centered at mid-quadrant
Mark background: yes

Angularity in this sense isn't a Cosmobiology principle (though contact to angles is). I think mid-quadrant is the better setting but I think it should default to "don't show" (since "background" isn't a Cosmo consideration).

Ecliptical aspects (obs in degrees for classes 1, 2, and 3)":
Conjunction, opposition, and square: 3.0, 5.0
Trine, Sextile, Octile,and Inconjunct: not used

Octiles are basic to Cosmobiology. I suggest 1.0, 2.0.

Any new default sets?

FYI, some that I've created:

Midpoint Report: The main feature is that all aspects are turned off including angularity, while all midpoint variations are turned on with 60' orb. It produces this:

Code: Select all

                              Cosmic State                              
Mo Aq    |    Su/Pl 07'd      Su/Ve 14'i   
Su Vi    | Mo Aq-
         |    Mo/Me 05'd      Sa/Mc 54'i   
Me Li    | Su Vi+
         |    Ve/Ur 15'i      As/Mc 18'd      Ur/Pl 22'd      Ve/Ju 24'i   
         |    Ju/Pl 30'd      Ne/Pl 38'i      Ve/Ne 44'd   
Ve Sc-   | Su Vi-
         |    Ne/As 02'i      Ne/Mc 19'd      Ur/Mc 40'i      Ju/Mc 49'i   
         |    Ur/As 57'd   
Ma Sg    |    Mo/Ve 43'd      Mo/Pl 50'i      Su/Ju 53'i   
Ju Cn+   |    Su/Sa 05'd   
Sa Li+   |    Mo/As 04'i      Mo/Mc 21'd      Ve/Ma 27'i      Ma/Pl 34'd   
Ur Cn    | Mo Aq+
         |    Su/Sa 22'd      Ju/Ne 51'i   
Ne Li    | Su Vi-
         |    Ma/Ju 04'd      Ma/Ur 13'd      Ve/Mc 29'i      Pl/Mc 36'd   
         |    Ve/As 46'd      Pl/As 53'i   
Pl Le    |    Ne/As 16'i      Ur/Mc 27'i      Ne/Mc 33'd      Ju/Mc 35'i   
         |    Ur/As 44'd      Ju/As 52'd   
As Vi    |    Ve/Ur 16'd      Ur/Pl 23'i      Ve/Ju 24'd      Ju/Pl 31'i   
         |    Ne/Pl 37'd      Ve/Ne 44'i   
Mc Ge    |    Ne/Pl 03'd      Ve/Ne 10'i      Me/Sa 38'i      Ve/Ur 50'd   
         |    Ur/Pl 57'i      Ve/Ju 58'd

I have the start of a Novien options. On principle, mark background mid-quadrant but don't show (since the concept doesn't apply). No foreground orbs (no Grounds measurement). Co/Op/Sq at normal Class 1/2 levels (3/7 Co/Op and 3/6 Sq), I don't mind Class 3 but didn't mark it on mine. All aspects. Midpoints off.

You probably don't want this (who but the very geeky will uses this?), I made one called Primitive that fakes a best estimate of ancient Egyptian conditions (and, in time, would have parans rolled in). No extra factors, mid-quadrant but don't show for background, normal Class 1/2/3 for all angularity and for Co/Op/Sq, all aspects, no midpoints. As I said, you probably don't want it.

[Jim Eshelman]

Oh, you didn't list the Cyril Fagan and Garth Allen option sets. I should give you my specs on those in case you want them.

Fagan_Options: No Eris, Sedna, or Node. Background mid-quadrant (show). Major angles 2/5/7, Minor Anglles 1/2/3. Five major (Ptolemaic) aspects at 2/5/None. Mundane Co/Op/Sq at 3/none/none. All aspects, no midpoints.

Garth_Allen_Options: No Eris or Sedna. True Node. Background cadent (show). Angles as in Default Natal. Five major (Ptolemaic) aspects at 3/6/9. Mundane Co/Op/Sq at 3/6/none (or 9). All aspects, no midpoints. (In time, this would substitute the cycloidal curves where appropriate.)

[mikestar13]

I will change the NPF in ingresses. I'll likely have cycloid curves sometime in version 0.5, but probably not in version 0.5.0. Noviens are are a different animal and will have their own option sets since so many of the concepts are inapplicable. I need to work out the way to compute % angularity strength for different widths of foreground, different foregrounds mean different though similar curves. I will only consider the class three width in adapting the formulas--using all three classes is just too complex. In fact I had been thinking of standardizing on foreground 10° wide with 3° as the immediate foreground (3°/2° for minor angles). In version 0.4, the foreground width is settable but is in part a cheat: % is calculated from the base angularity model, and the foreground width only controls whether the F is marked. So if a planet is 10° PVL from an angle, it will show as 75% but may or may not be marked "F" depending on the settings.

[mikestar13]

For some reports (perhaps all) there should be a don't draw the wheel option, indeed probably everything should be optional. Except blank output of course so I will likely make the planetary data mandatory. There will be a number of options for the cosmic state report (including aspects, midpoints, dignities, mutual reception, whatever else we add).

[Jim Eshelman]

Refining that would be very nice. The current cheat is working fine enough that I don't think it's a rush (but it's probably working because few/no users have any reason to vary it).

To keep the sinusoidal shape on a different base probably produces some undesirable effects, yes? Thinking through, if the curve were the same but the width of the base varied, that means the minor angle curve (for example) would be about the same as Class 1 bottom when 30% of the Class 3 orb (which isn't far off) and the same as the Class 2 bottom when 70% of its max. On a 3° base, these aren't far from 1° and 2° (they're around 0°54' and 2°06'. Does something that simple work? (It FEELS to me like the curve should be squeezed and rise/drop faster, but these numbers don't look bad.)

[Jim Eshelman]

There will be a number of options for the cosmic state report (including aspects, midpoints, dignities, mutual reception, whatever else we add).

So, let's see, compared to where things currently stand, what does this mean for Cosmic State options?

Aspects - Not including aspects in CS seems quite weird. I can't think of a scenario where that makes sense.

Midpoints - At the moment, these appear only in CS (I like that). What I'd love is a "Don't Use" box on the midpoint setup page that would let me define the orbs, leave them in place, and then just toggle use/don't on/off. (At present, to turn off midpoints I have to remove the orbs, etc.)

Dignities - If you want to make this optional for CS, I think that, like the midpoints, a flag on the Dignities setup page might do it. (But you may have something else in mind that's more efficient.)

MR - No opinion on a separate show/don't for this (see opinion on aspects above). If the show-toggle for dignities is on the Dignities setup page, the MR show-toggle could be right next to it (kinda the same thing).

[Jim Eshelman]

For some reports (perhaps all) there should be a don't draw the wheel option

That works for my Midpoints Report LOL,

I suppose it makes sense to make it optional, though there's a lot to get directly from the wheel. I think we came up with a nice way to display a synastry two-wheeler, but if you do anything close to the density of synastry reports I proposed, I can see that people might want to go straight to the tabulations,

Any "no wheel" should, of course, have all the chart data as a header.

[mikestar13]

It would be weird not to have aspects at all (though you are turning them off -- and the aspectarian-- by setting the aspect orbs to 0, for the midpoint report). Aspects will be on by default in both the class listing of aspects and the cosmic state report. Dignities will be on by default for nativities (including MR). Midpoints will have a don't use option. What the dignities are will be in program options. Whether to use them in a chart will be in chart options, including MR yes/no. Chart options will acquire some additional pages or perhaps orb setting for aspects will also be a the page where midpoint orbs are set now.

[mikestar13]

I'm going to consolidate all option in the opening page into one button, which will let you choose program options, chart options, novien options, sysastry options(in version 0.6), and whatever options may be added, and open the appropriate option page. I will post some screenshots to imgur as pages are designed/redisigned.

[Jim Eshelman]

As long as you're re-visioning and redesigning these forms, can you make them fit in half a screen? Personally, I nearly always use the program on half my screen (whether the larger monitor at home or my 17" laptop). I can see everything I need, but some things get cut-off (like the first column of the aspect names). Doesn't affect me in practice, but for general use by general users it would be noticed.

Also, on the home screen, three lines get cut off just a tiny bit.

On chart options page in half screen, three lines at the top end with:
Include Vert
Use Mean Noc
Don't Ma

FWIW.

[Jim Eshelman]

I'm going to consolidate all option in the opening page into one button, which will let you choose program options, chart options, novien options, sysastry options (in version 0.6), and whatever options may be added, and open the appropriate option page. I will post some screenshots to imgur as pages are designed/redisigned.

A consolidated page would be a nice touch - then Program Options would just be one of several buttons on the single page, yes? (A nice collection of buttons to other screens?)

[Jim Eshelman]

I should mention that I go back and forth in my head on whether mundane Class 2 aspects should be turned on. I have it that way for myself. I lean toward leaving the default at Class 1 because, once aspect strength starts tapering, it's harder to assert firmly that, yes, it's operative. (And some of them are already ecliptical aspects, just not quite as wide.)

We get interesting examples like Hitler's nativity. He already has an afflicted Venus, it being in Aries, conjunct Mars 0°19', square Saturn 3°14'. Bad enough. But then you add the 5°37' mundane conjunction with Pluto (they are 18° apart ecliptically) and the idea of Venus being in detriment and aspecting Mars, Saturn, and Pluto just seems even more monstrous, cruel, and calloused. I suppose the chart doesn't NEED it, but the mix certainly is vivid and expressive.

And then (sigh) if we mark those, there's no good argument for not marking Class 3.

[mikestar13]

Redesigned start page: https://imgur.com/cF1umLR

Plenty of room for more option types if needed. The not implement buttons will display a version # when they are estimated to be available.

[Jim Eshelman]

Ah, THAT is what you're doing. OK, yes, entirely clear. (I thought you were going to have a single OPTIONS button that went to a new page that had or linked to various option pages.)

Everything groups nicely.

[Jim Eshelman]

BTW you could drop the blank line between the licensing explanation and the license link.

[mikestar13]

Good idea to drop the blank line. And since I'm going to split up the chart options page, I can get it closer to a half screen. In fact I'm going to experiment with fitting everything in a half screen, or maybe 60% if half isn't quite wide enough. The two button groups on the opening be page idea came to me after posting.