TMSA 0.5 Preview Release

[Jim Eshelman]

The January 2023 Caplunar for Upland:

Looks good to me. (Of course, this one has no aspects that would show.)

[mikestar13]

Fixed a nasty bug for minor angles (solunars only, natals and ingresses weren't affected, and only the radical planets were off). I was getting As, Mc and RAMC from whichever wheel I was calculating, but it should be the outer wheel always. Radical planet positions are precessed to the time of the return: sidereal longitude and latitude are considered fixed for all time, but RA, declination, azimuth, and PVL are recalculated for the outer wheel date. The new minor angularity calculation is now correct for all chart types. Now to revise the chart options page as a prelude to rewriting the aspect code. Also I will redesign the program options page to allow editing the rulership list as a prelude to checking mutual reception. BTW let's say Ve Sg MR Ju Ta. I assume MR Ju will appear in Ve's cosmic state and MR Ve in Ju's.

BTW has any work been done on "inverse mutual reception" example Ve Ge and Ju Sc. If valid this would be a negative influence.

[Jim Eshelman]

Fixed a nasty bug for minor angles (solunars only, natals and ingresses weren't affected, and only the radical planets were off). I was getting As, Mc and RAMC from whichever wheel I was calculating, but it should be the outer wheel always.

Bizarre. I've been working with that a lot and hadn't caught that. (I have a lunar open in front of me now with r Pluto on Zenith 13' and showing with 100% score, which sounds right.)

Radical planet positions are precessed to the time of the return: sidereal longitude and latitude are considered fixed for all time, but RA, declination, azimuth, and PVL are recalculated for the outer wheel date.

All exactly correct.

BTW let's say Ve Sg MR Ju Ta. I assume MR Ju will appear in Ve's cosmic state and MR Ve in Ju's.

Yes, it should. Perhaps at the end always?

BTW has any work been done on "inverse mutual reception" example Ve Ge and Ju Sc. If valid this would be a negative influence.

I used to call things like Ve Sg and Ju Sc them "Go {bonk} Yourself! reception" (Jupiter nicely hosts Venus and, seeking reciprocation, is told GFY.)

That aside, astrologers using reconstructed classic Greek methods (the "Traditional Astrology" school) speak of positive vs. negative reception on a planet by planet basis, i.e., if Jupiter is Taurus then Venus favorably receives Jupiter; for Jupiter in Scorpio, Venus unfavorably receives Jupiter. There is something similar (but not really the same) in Hindu astrology, which is kinda interesting and different from anything I've seen in the West, where the positive or negative balance of an aspect is shifted by whether the aspected planet is in a sign favorable or unfavorable to the aspecting planet: E.g., I have Mars in Sagittarius and Jupiter in Cancer in opposition. Jupiter's effect on Mars is more favorable than usual because Mars is in a sign favorable to Jupiter, while Mars' effect on Jupiter is more unfavorable than usual because Jupiter in Cancer (though exalted) is in the Fall of Mars. (Bad example, actually, because they wouldn't count the out-of-sign opposition. A really bizarre example would be Mars in Capricorn opposite Jupiter in Cancer, where each planet is exalted BUT each is in a sign adverse to the aspecting planet. So the planets themselves would be strong and favorable, but the aspect would be adverse to both of them.)

These things get terribly complicated in those particular schools of astrology, both of which count on every planet and aspect having numerous potential plus and minus factors that get weighed against each other to get an eventual conclusion on whether it's good or bad.

[Jim Eshelman]

Digression: Wanna see what new madness I'm quietly up to? Look in the thread of my current-year SLRs and Demis and see if you notice anything different near the top of each entry.

[mikestar13]

By the way the minor angle bug didn't exist in 0.4, I inadvertently induced it in the rewritten code for 0.5.

[mikestar13]

At the top of your 4/26/22 LR I see this line:

Benefic = 143, Malefic = 259, Change = 298, Shine = 163, Cognitive = 229

Without even any definitions, I grasp the idea of the first three but I'm at sea about the last two. Without looking at anything else, this period tends more bad than good, but is highly changeable so has less certainty of bad than if Change were low. Love to hear more about it. Is this something Solar Fire can calculate or is it strictly your own number crunching? Without even knowing what it is I'll wager I can calculate it.

[Jim Eshelman]

Thus could expand in many other dimensions. At the moment they are both Jupiter's and Venuses, both Marshes and Saturn's, both Uranusescand Plutos, and all four luminaries. Them I had to think of some reason to use Mercury and Neptune togehter and didn't want to call it Neurosis.

Average score 200 btw. It's all TMSA angularity scores added.

This could be expanded to other pairs, though three planets start taking shape more than pairs. I'm actually thinking of an 3ventual app that calculates a lunar return and gives colored bar graphs showing relative strengths of these factors.

It's still experimental.

[mikestar13]

So Shine is Luminaries and Cognition is Mercury - Neptune. Wondering what Eris-Sedna might be called.

[Jim Eshelman]

In a return chart? Who knows!

Shine might better be Spotlight. You could add things like Dignity (respect?) for Sun-Jupiter, Indignity for Saturn-Neptune, Sensitivity & Vulnerability for Moon-Neptune. Change is straightforward with Uranus-Pluto (things fundamentally change), but with slightly different wording it could reflect the idea of "shifting sands" sort of rapidly changing conditions with Moon-Uranuis.

Several other themes people might want take three-planet combos (which means the scores are no longer comparable), e.g., sex as Moon-Venu-Mars, Security Needs as Moon-Saturn-Neptune, etc.

I'm not sure how much this can stay reliable and still be eye-catching like this. I think there could ultimately be a successful app in all of this with bars describing main themes of two-week periods. Tap one button for a brief text interpretation of the SLR or Demi or just look at the bars and tap each one for a few lines of explanation.

There are a lot of popular synastry apps along these lines. I don't know that they are very good. I'd only be interested in creating something that actually was good astrology. So I'm experimenting on myself.

[mikestar13]

I need to:

1. Redesign the Solunars page
2. Create a Rulerships page
3. Extensive rewrite of Chart Options
4. Rewrite aspect and midpoint routines, adding parans, full support for bi- and tri-wheels
5. Anlunars
6. Any other touch ups that may be needed

This will complete version 0.5.0.

Subsequent versions as outlined in https://solunars.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=6075#p45514, with the addition that Kinetic Solunars will be done concurrently with quotidians.

[mikestar13]

Nearly have the changes in the Ingresses pages ported to the Solunars page. When I finish, I need to update the Program Options page, the do a thorough redesign of chart options. Then I can finish updating the chart printing routines. I will also add anlunars to the solunars page: they will be the first use of tri-wheel charts. Then testing, updating documentation, and publish 0.5.0.0.

[Jim Eshelman]

Seems the train is definitely rolling down the track.

[mikestar13]

I will put the finishing touches on the solunars page today and will add anlunars in a tri-wheel view this weekend, then polish the import/export facility. Then I will be ready for the extensive redesign of the chart option pages, and adding user-defined rulerships. Then a rewrite of the code for calculation angularity, aspects, midpoints, etc. Then update help files and build the installer.

[Jim Eshelman]

In one sense, 0.4.7.5 was what much software reaches at 1.0 (it works, it does a job, and you know there will be a sequel), and 0.5 sounds like it will be a very significant reformation. In any case, this is a huge threshold in the product!

[mikestar13]

By the way, I have reconsidered something. Planetary dignities will be per option set, so you might have a "traditional" and "speculative" option set, for example. Jim's usual dignities and debilities will be the default. User will set rulerships and exultations, and the debilities and falls automatically will be in the opposite sign. Rulerships and exaltations will be distinguished and options will be provided for mutual reception: include exultations (the default), rulerships only, or don't use.

[Jim Eshelman]

Yes allowing, different option sets for dignities makes a lot of sense. (Easier than going back and tweaking them when you want to try variants.) I'll surely modify my own recommended defaults just to test some points of view (without outright recommending them). - Sedna ruling Taurus anybody? <g>

[mikestar13]

Perhaps I should renumber the versions. I will be making enough changes that alter the .dat files for charts enough that under the requirements of semantic versioning, if I renumbered 0.4.7.5 to 1.0, version 0.5 would need to become version 2.0! But I would be able to renumber the final 0.5 release
as 1.0 and without problems: I won't be changing anything after that, just adding features. Then sysastry will be 1.1 and interpretation will be 1.2.

[Jim Eshelman]

Sounds right. Yes, I think my unspoken mental wanderings were that thus far we have version 0 and the next step is a Big Version jump that felt like 1.0 y comparison - but that would be the next version finished, not merely begun.

In most senses, this doesn't matter. OTOH there's an itch that the program, in this new stage, deserves its "I'm a real program and still in evolution" badge, don't you think?

[mikestar13]

0.5.0 is a good candidate for 1.0 after the bugs are out, then we can project the subsequent versions;

1.1 Noviens and Enneads
1.2 Transits
1.3 Progressions, directions and progressed based charts (KSR etc)
1.4* Synastry
1.5* Interpretation

* = may split into multiple versions.

Consider this done after 0.5.0 has all bugs fixed (probably 0.5.0.2 or .3).

[Jim Eshelman]

And then 2.0 introduces graphic chart illustrations? <d&r>

[mikestar13]

I expect to add an export as cs v facility in 0.5 as I do the rest of the export routines. Will tne planetary data and date, location, etc, be sufficient, or wil we want aspects and midpoints?

[Jim Eshelman]

We have another thread about this. The discussion went on a bit and I'd have to find it to review.

I think, though, it came down to the question of export for what purpose? IIRC one issue is that other programs don't AFAIK have data import functions. An export thst we could use for custom work in say Excel would require positions. Just the data for archiving is useful, at least somewhat.

I can't give a meaningful opinion without knowing a target program or purpose. For example, if SF has a bulk loader, I haven't found it.

[mikestar13]

After reading the csv thread I think the best way is to translate the txt file to to csv, excluding the wheel and having aspects and midpoints (if used for this chart). This general technique will be used going forward, implemented concurrently with designing the feature. Thus transits should export as csv in version 1.2, for example. Basically, you will select a chart and choose whether to export the dat file, the txt file, a generated csv file, or some combination.

[Jim Eshelman]

Transits, progressions, etc. are where this will be of enormous value to me in the foreseeable future: Monthly transit runs can be dumped and immediately usable (or several pasted together quickly then sorted).

[mikestar13]

Transits, progressions, etc. are where this will be of enormous value to me in the foreseeable future: Monthly transit runs can be dumped and immediately usable (or several pasted together quickly then sorted).

I figured this would be the most frequent way to use this feature, not so much for static charts (but these will work too).

[mikestar13]

Also changed the Recalcute button to call New Chart, Ingresses, or Solunars as appropriate.

[Jim Eshelman]

Also changed the Recalcute button to call New Chart, Ingresses, or Solunars as appropriate.

Oh, that will be quite helpful. (It still allows solunars to be calculated as stand-alone one-wheel charts?)

[mikestar13]

Single Wheel view will no longer be available via the recalculate button directly, but the option for single wheel view will appear on the Solunars page itself. Single wheel view will be offered as a option for all chart types which are not already naturally presented in single wheel (natals and ingresses). So noviens and progressed charts will be available in single wheel view as they are implemented.

[mikestar13]

I'm running into serious issues with calculating anlunars from the natal chart (with the solar return calculated as in intermediate step hidden from the from the user), so I have decided to make anlunars an explicitly multi-step process:

1. Calculate the SSR (temporary chart OK).
2. Go to Select Chart and choose the SSR just calculated.
3. Choose Solunars.
4. Make input edits as needed
5. Hit Calculate.

The program will label the chart correctly and calculate a tri-wheel for anlunars, or a bi-wheel for SLR's (easy to distinguish -- is the base chart a natal chart or a solar return?), with of course a single wheel option as for all bi- and tri-wheel charts.

[Jim Eshelman]

I don't mind the extra steps (which are slight, and similar to what I have to do either manually or in Solar Fire).

My one concern is that the Anlunar is a simpler matter than a Kinetic Lunar (one less moving target) so I wonder what the issues you're encountering mean for the Kinetic.

[mikestar13]

I may similarly need to use a multi-step process with the kinetics as well, the moving target complication adds only slight complexity. Basically get the position of the progressed luminary, find the return to it, the luminary's progressed position is recalculated for that time and a return is recalculated for that return time, repeating until sufficient accuracy is obtained.Three of four iterations (or twenty) don't take perceptibly longer than one. We don't cast a full chart until the final time is determined, only the progressed position and the time the transiting luminary crosses that longitude. Other than the number of iterations, the process is the same to derive an anlunar from a SSR and to derive a KLR/KSR from aN Q2 (or NQ1!) chart. Simpler programming to derive from the SSR/NQ explicitly than to purport to derive directly from the nativity and calculate the SSR/NQ behind the scenes, the behind the scenes method renders the search algorithm considerably more difficult, and makes it harder to insert the SSR/NQ into the "middle" wheel.

[Jim Eshelman]

In case you are interested, I made a new Options set for myself titled Mundoscope.

It's exactly like my natal set except that (1) all ecliptical aspects are removed and (2) mundane orbs are listed for classes 1, 2, and 3.

While the smooth integration of ecliptical and mundane aspects in TMSA is one of its great features most of the time, I'm also aware of wanting to occasionally distinguish someone's celestial self from their mundane self. Rereading my original long thread on natal mundane aspects this week reminded me that these in isolation seem more eventish, locale-dependent, and environmentally expressive. Sometimes, therefore, I should be looking at these in isolation to get that distinctive perspective.

[Jim Eshelman]

While typing the above, it occurred to me: I wonder of Locality Chart ("Local") needs to be a specific category of chart type rather than just a recalculation of the chart.

Thus far, I have handled relocation by pulling up the natal, clicking to recalculate, change the location (while keeping the natal time zone intact), and adding a notation to the Lastname field. For example, I change (on the recalc) my last name from "Eshelman" to "Eshelman - LA". This has served me well with the Find Chart function to date because it has its own folder and clear name difference, but it might not be as useful with the improved Find features in the next version. (Or, of course, it may be just as useful.)

But the main reason I'm thinking Local should be a chart type is that there are several possible ways we might want to contrast the birthplace nativity from a local nativity. If all I want to do is calculate a new locality chart and read it (for angularity etc.), I can do that; but some relocation methods exist that I know are important and I don't think to do all the time that require having both charts for contrast.

For example, mundane aspects change between locales. Is it valuable to have a list of those changes? The same will be true of parans: What parans or mundane aspects are gained or lost by moving, or change their orbs enough to notice (or suddenly the wider natal orb becomes the closest).

Just brainstorming - no clear, settled opinion - but I can imagine a Cosmic State report that has two lines (or sets of lines) for each planet, showing the different ranked lists of aspects etc. for each planet (e.g., a normal CS report line for Moon at birthplace followed by another one for Moon at location).

Still brainstorming, perhaps the data section in the Location Report wouldn't need the Lat, Speed, RA, and Dec columns but could have birthplace vs. locale PVL, Ang, FG, and azimuth columns (for example). The aspects section could then have a column for mundane aspect differences (design of this isn't evident to me), another for paran differences, and the third column differences in midpoints involving angles. Then the contrast CS section.

Or something like that... just making this stuff up... trying to think what would be useful. Sometimes you just want to look at a locality chart itself (and then the current way of doing it is perfect). Sometimes you want to know, "What are all the real differences between where I was born and where I live now?" And sometimes you want to bounce around checking half a dozen possible locations for a spot to live, and do a contrasty deep-dive into each of them.

[mikestar13]

The type of thing you are doing with the mundoscope options will be even easier in the revised chart options. The locality comparison will work naturally into the generic chart comparison facility that I am building, either in the synastry version or as a prelude to it. So not this release, but it will happen. This will combine well with astromapping when it is developed. The facility for seeing how a new set of angles alters a the emphasis of a nativity will be valuable as part of synastry as well.

[mikestar13]

After days of wrestling with angularity strength equations. I have made a command decision. The strength percentage will be computed by user choice of three methods cosine curves (background at cadent cusps), cosine curves (background at mid-quadrant), and cycloid curves (background at mid - quadrant). A given model will calculate the same percentage for the same position, regardless of the users foreground width settings. (So ten degrees from an angle will always show as 75% in either cosine method and 67% in cycloid). The foreground width settings will control whether a planet is considered foreground for angle marks (As, Mc, Ep, ...) and whether it is included in aspects (when not using "all aspects"). Foreground width is still specified by classes 1, 2, and 3, which will be used for questions such as dispelling dormancy in an ingress, and will be used in the eventual interpretation module.

So the only changes from version 0.4 are foreground planets marked by the specific angle rather than the generic F, and the addition of the cycloid model as an option. I had ambitiously undertaken to use different formulas for each foreground width (so if say I set the foreground width to seven degrees, seven degrees would have 75% strength) but the math is just too damn hard. I prefer to focus my programming efforts on improvements elsewhere and new features. The original idea might still be possible, but it would require too much effort that would be better used elsewhere.

[Jim Eshelman]

This all sounds good.

You also have incorporated the refined minor angles scoring, right? (I've been looking forward to that when it's available.)

[mikestar13]

Yes refined minor angle scoring already implemented.

[mikestar13]

I have done all the research and proof of concept code and now I can code in earnest. In order:

1. Debug the tri-wheel view.
2. Redesign the Chart Options page,
3. Editable planetary dignities
4. Implement cycloid curve model as an alternative for angularity and aspect strength.
5. Redesign aspect calculation, implementing parans.
6. Streamline midpoint calculation,
7. Implement mutual reception
8. export as csv option

Possible release in mid-June.

[Jim Eshelman]

You're off! - Several of these things will make people's lives better while using the program.

[Jim Eshelman]

As I look at this list, I'm reminded again how far this program has come from its original vision, Mike.

You are WAY past, "Here is an easy way to calculate a Sidereal natal chart, and maybe some solar and lunar returns."

I just caught myself unconsciously thinking about TMSA not against that standard but, rather, against the standard of being a full-service professional astrologer's tool that gives pretty much anything you want (at least to the extent that current commercial software does). The fact that you're in a stage of refining I/O, implementing things obscure to most users (but useful to them behind the scenes), and conveniences - while on the verge of the big push to finish the wide range of predictive tools - shows that this is in a quite different league than when you began.

This next version (I mean 0.5 aka 1.0 in the widest sense) is zooming in on the predictive system calculations that actually are difficult for users. (Natals and solunars have never been THAT difficult when someone has the right tools; but consider what percentage of the Primer is spent on how to get various progressions and diverse quotidians working plus second tier solunars. That's what's coming here.) I suppose that's one standard of marking the graduation to 1.0: The program is "Primer-complete." (Hadn't thought of it that way before.)

Still more to do... but, after half a century, "Primer-complete" is a big deal!

[mikestar13]

My current anlunar:

Code: Select all

 +-------------07Pi08-----------09Aq16-----------18Cp12--------------+
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 |rVe 14Pi13 07°02|                |                |                |
 |rSu 17Pi32 08°39|tMa 15Aq56 09°13|                |                |
 |sSu 17Pi32 08°39|                |sVe 01Aq27 19°10|                |
 |sMe 16Pi53 08°59|                |tSa 29Cp09 16°27|                |
 |rMe 29Pi41 17°16|                |                |                |
 |rMo 02Ar18 18°01|                |sSa 27Cp07 13°26|                |
 |sMo 00Ar27 20°03|                |sMa 25Cp18 10°47|                |
 |tMo 00Ar27 20°03|sJu 26Aq34 20°41|                |tPl 03Cp33 07°55|
 |sEr 29Pi10 26°01|sNe 28Aq34 22°48|                |sPl 03Cp22 07°42|
 |tEr 29Pi27 26°13|tNe 29Aq28 23°42|                |                |
 |rEr 14Pi44 26°44|tVe 01Pi31 25°46|                |                |
 |tSu 14Ar16 27°43|tJu 02Pi40 26°43|                |                |
 17Ar39-----------+----------------+----------------+-----------26Sg59
 |sUr 17Ar55 00°27|                                 |                |
 |tUr 19Ar25 01°27|                                 |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |tMe 04Ta42 09°32|     Transiting Planets (t)      |                |
 |                |         Nelson, Michael         |                |
 |                |         Anlunar Return          |                |
 |                |     29 Apr 2022 15:45:03 UT     |                |
 |   tEp 12Ta55   |         Upland, CA USA          |                |
 |rMa 15Ta09 18°12|      34N05'51" 117W38'54"       |                |
 |                |   UT 15:45:03 RAMC 336°11'32"   |                |
 |                |   OE 23°26'17" SVP 04Pi57'07"   |                |
 |                | Sidereal Zodiac Campanus Houses |                |
 |                |            * * * * *            |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 28Ta39-----------+        Solar Planets (s)        +-----------28Sc39
 |                |         Nelson, Michael         |                |
 |                |         Upland, CA USA          |                |
 |                |     2 Apr 2022 08:21:41 UT      |rSa 20Sc06 24°17|
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |       Radical Planets (r)       |                |
 |                |         Nelson, Michael         |                |
 |                |     Huntington Park, CA USA     |                |
 |                |     1 Apr 1957 08:23:00 PST     |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 |                |                                 |                |
 26Ge59-----------+----------------+----------------+-----------17Li39
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |                |                |rNe 07Li37 24°34|
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 |rUr 08Cn45 15°54|                |                |                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |                |rJu 00Vi51 25°21|                |
 |                |                |                |                |
 |                |rPl 04Le07 28°56|                |                |
 +-------------18Cn12-----------09Le16-----------07Vi08--------------+
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang FG
                             Transiting Planets                            
 Mo 00Ar27'21" 02S24 +12°38'  24°31' 07N38 109°19' +38°20' 320°03'   7%  b
 Su 14Ar15'44" 00S00 +58'19"  36°55' 14N36  93°50' +32°13' 327°43'   0%  b
 Me 04Ta41'40" 02N43 +56'37"  56°55' 22N45  75°25' +19°52' 339°32'  23%  b
 Ve 01Pi31'17" 01S14 + 1°08' 357°21' 02S30 147°09' +48°20' 295°46'  79% Z 
 Ma 15Aq56'06" 01S31 +45'19" 343°02' 08S51 170°08' +46°34' 279°13'  78% M 
 Ju 02Pi39'33" 01S04 +12'35" 358°19' 01S53 145°26' +48°26' 296°43'  47%   
 Sa 29Cp08'55" 01S01 + 3'25" 326°51' 14S25 191°58' +40°41' 256°27'  58%   
 Ur 19Ar25'14" 00S22 + 3'27"  42°07' 15N50  89°37' +28°33' 331°27'   1%  b
 Ne 29Aq28'24" 01S08 + 1'44" 355°25' 03S13 150°14' +48°31' 293°42' 100% Z 
 Pl 03Cp33'03" 01S58 + 0'00" 301°09' 22S22 215°41' +24°26' 217°55'  28%   
 Er 29Pi27'21" 11S10 + 0'38"  26°46' 00S55 115°32' +31°07' 326°13'   1%  b
                               Solar Planets                               
 Mo 00Ar27'21" 02S23 +12°47'  24°31' 07N38 109°19' +38°20' 320°03'   7%  b
 Su 17Pi31'46" 00S00 +59'13"  11°34' 04N58 123°38' +46°09' 308°39'  27%   
 Me 16Pi52'47" 01S07 + 2°02'  11°24' 03N41 125°04' +45°20' 308°59'  27%   
 Ve 01Aq27'05" 00N45 + 1°03' 328°28' 11S59 190°25' +43°20' 259°10'  71%   
 Ma 25Cp17'48" 01S14 +45'18" 323°09' 15S52 196°06' +38°31' 250°47'  29%   
 Ju 26Aq34'03" 01S01 +14'02" 352°42' 04S15 154°38' +48°36' 290°41'  97% Z 
 Sa 27Cp06'52" 00S57 + 5'25" 324°51' 15S01 194°18' +39°43' 253°26'  42%   
 Ur 17Ar54'40" 00S22 + 3'06"  40°37' 15N23  90°54' +29°33' 330°27'   0%  b
 Ne 28Aq34'10" 01S07 + 2'11" 354°35' 03S34 151°36' +48°32' 292°48' 100% Z 
 Pl 03Cp22'14" 01S54 + 0'47" 300°57' 22S20 215°52' +24°22' 217°42'  29%   
 Er 29Pi09'35" 11S11 + 0'39"  26°30' 01S02 115°51' +31°14' 326°01'   1%  b
                              Radical Planets                              
 Mo 02Ar18'11" 02N04 +12°30'  24°37' 12N28 104°10' +41°06' 318°01'  10%  b
 Su 17Pi31'46" 00N00 +59'12"  11°34' 04N58 123°38' +46°09' 308°39'  27%   
 Me 29Pi40'55" 00N35 + 1°56'  22°41' 10N08 108°10' +41°17' 317°16'  11%  b
 Ve 14Pi13'07" 01S22 + 1°14'   9°03' 02N25 128°47' +45°56' 307°02'  30%   
 Ma 15Ta08'36" 01N14 +37'44"  68°22' 23N12  69°22' +11°04' 348°12'  95% Ea
 Ju 00Vi50'53" 01N33 - 7'12" 176°51' 03N03 328°11' -48°04' 115°21'  95% N 
 Sa 20Sc05'56" 01N49 - 0'52" 254°06' 20S48 248°26' - 5°19' 174°17'  91% D 
 Ur 08Cn45'01" 00N37 - 0'28" 126°16' 19N54  32°25' -28°57'  45°54'  13%  b
 Ne 07Li37'12" 01N48 - 1'31" 211°06' 10S42 281°27' -34°53' 144°34'   2%  b
 Pl 04Le06'55" 11N23 - 1'01" 155°34' 22N23   0°42' -33°31'  88°56' 100% I 
 Er 14Pi43'47" 23S06 + 0'42"  18°17' 17S20 135°11' +24°49' 326°44'   1%  b
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Created by TMSA 0.5.0.0 (20 May 2022)

[Jim Eshelman]

MC within 0°07' of SF - time within 29 seconds. (We know TMSA is more accurate. With Anlunars, we have two different charts that have small margins of error: First the SSR, then its SLR.)

This is the first triwheel?

Lots of nice features visible in this.

Did you notice the azimuth/PVP square of transiting Uranus and natal Pluto?

No aspects yet?

[mikestar13]

Haven't started calculating aspects yet, but that was fairly visible. I need to rework chart options before I rework aspects (adding new types) and midpoints.

[mikestar13]

My current SSR in single wheel view:

Code: Select all

 +-------------16Li18-----------24Vi19-----------25Le21--------------+
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 07Sc56-----------+----------------+----------------+-----------15Cn03
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 |                |         Nelson, Michael         |                |
 |                |          Solar Return           |                |
 |                |     2 Apr 2022 08:21:41 UT      |                |
 |                |     Huntington Park, CA USA     |                |
 05Sg46-----------+      33N58'58" 118W12'43"       +-----------05Ge46
 |                |   UT 08:21:41 RAMC 197°52'25"   |                |
 |                |   OE 23°26'17" SVP 04Pi57'10"   |                |
 |                | Sidereal Zodiac Campanus Houses |                |
 |                |            * * * * *            |                |
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 |   Ep 21Sg26    |                                 |                |
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 |Pl 03Cp22 23°11 |                                 |                |
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 15Cp03-----------+----------------+----------------+-----------07Ta56
 |                |Ju 26Aq34 01°46 |                |                |
 |                |Ne 28Aq34 03°36 |                |                |
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 |Ma 25Cp18 08°00 |                |                |                |
 |Sa 27Cp07 09°04 |                |Mo 00Ar27 08°47 |                |
 |Ve 01Aq27 10°55 |                |Er 29Pi10 10°15 |                |
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 |                |Me 16Pi53 21°52 |                |                |
 |                |Su 17Pi32 21°56 |                |                |
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 |                |                |                |Ur 17Ar55 02°20 |
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 +-------------25Aq21-----------24Pi19-----------16Ar18--------------+
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang FG
 Mo 00Ar27'21" 02S23 +12°47'  24°31' 07N38 350°09' -47°54'  98°47'  80% I 
 Su 17Pi31'46" 00S00 +59'13"  11°34' 04N58   9°56' -50°36'  81°56'  83% I 
 Me 16Pi52'47" 01S07 + 2°02'  11°24' 03N41  10°29' -51°51'  81°52'  83% I 
 Ve 01Aq27'05" 00N45 + 1°03' 328°28' 11S59  76°07' -40°05'  40°55'  23%  b
 Ma 25Cp17'48" 01S14 +45'18" 323°09' 15S52  83°55' -37°50'  38°00'  28%   
 Ju 26Aq34'03" 01S01 +14'02" 352°42' 04S15  43°46' -52°10'  61°46'   1%  b
 Sa 27Cp06'52" 00S57 + 5'25" 324°50' 15S01  81°54' -38°47'  39°04'  26%   
 Ur 17Ar54'40" 00S22 + 3'06"  40°37' 15N23 332°31' -36°06' 122°20'  37%   
 Ne 28Aq34'10" 01S07 + 2'11" 354°35' 03S34  40°34' -52°39'  63°36'   4%  b
 Pl 03Cp22'14" 01S54 + 0'47" 300°57' 22S20 102°24' -22°42'  23°11'  53%   
 Er 29Pi09'35" 11S11 + 0'39"  26°30' 01S02 344°24' -56°04' 100°15'  75%   
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 Created by TMSA 0.5.0.0 (21 May 2022)

[mikestar13]

Some points about single wheel view:
1. This is only meaningful for charts that are naturally bi- or tri- wheel, it isn't offered for nativities and ingresses.
2. The chart file will have (swv) at the end of the filename, so the equivalent bi- or tri- wheel chart won't be overwritten.
3. A single wheel view chart can be used as the basis for a derived chart, but there will be consequences. For example if you use a single view SSR as the basis for an Anlunar that Anlunar will only have a bi-wheel with transiting and solar planets (which might be what's wanted but I think the transiting-solar-radical planets tri-wheel is much more useful).

[Jim Eshelman]

For example if you use a single view SSR as the basis for an Anlunar that Anlunar will only have a bi-wheel with transiting and solar planets (which might be what's wanted but I think the transiting-solar-radical planets tri-wheel is much more useful).

Historically, it's been difficult to get, though - to display right - and to read all the details.

However, with TMSA's lists, most or all of those difficulties (innate to the type of chart) will tend to go away. That means another first: the first time Siderealists will have been able to easily and reliably gather and process all that data across three wheels.

It's always been easiest to just put the Anlunar around the SSR planets and hope you can remember in a side-by-side to look at the natal planets; but, of course, trying to read mundane aspects of three wheels at a glance is difficult. But I've seen several Anlunars with natal planets being the most important, e..g., Richard Nixon's Anlunar for his resignation where the closest planet was natal Saturn on EP-a. I'll wait for your program to be ready to test whether natal Pluto was also rising mundanely. (If it wasn't doing so in the Anlunar, it was doing so in the Demi-Anlunar August 4, I'm pretty sure - conjoined by transiting Saturn 15'.)

Similarly, JFK's November 11 Anlunar before his assassination had natal Saturn about 1° from the Dallas MC, as best I can tell from ecliptic contacts. - For DC, the same chart had transiting Saturn on IC square Sun, Neptune, and natal Mars.

[mikestar13]

When I am finished with aspects, you will have accurate precession corrected mundane aspects and parans among all three charts. I don't believe Solar Fire does this. And (perhaps in a later release), Prime Vertical Parans as well.

[Jim Eshelman]

You are correct about SF. To my knowledge, there is no existing software that handles precession-corrected mundane aspects (except the current version of TMSA, which handles this in solar and lunar returns).

[Jim Eshelman]

An aside - a minor suggestion...

Some of the columns have no leading zeroes (e.g., speed, azimuth, altitude, Ang). Others have leading zeroes (longitude, latitude, declination). The positions are slightly easier to read without the leading zeroes. Can they all be the same?

As a sample, my chart would then look like this:

Code: Select all

Pl Longitude   Lat   Speed    RA    Decl    Azi     Alt     PVL    Ang G
Mo 27Aq24'00"  4N46 +14°42' 350°20'  1N01 274°11' - 3°15' 176°45'  97% F
Su 22Vi27'42"  0N00 +59'17" 195°16'  6S31  81°47' -19°08'  19°19'  60%  
Me 17Li21'03"  3S10 +44'52" 218°00' 18S18  75°14' -43°36'  44°34'  15%  
Ve  1Sc52'48"  5S48 +29'45" 232°10' 24S54  70°07' -57°58'  59°32'   0%  
Ma 28Sg55'21"  2S50 +36'43" 295°23' 24S16 294°46' -60°00' 117°40'  45%  
Ju  3Cn36'46"  0N09 + 6'44" 119°50' 20N46 114°28' +54°36' 302°54'  36%  
Sa 14Li56'37"  2N10 + 6'50" 217°22' 12S28  69°58' -39°16'  41°02'  23%  
Ur  3Cn19'58"  0N30 + 1'17" 119°37' 21N10 114°12' +55°01' 302°33'  37%  
Ne  1Li20'24"  1N39 + 2'13" 204°12'  8S18  76°50' -26°56'  27°33'  46%  
Pl  2Le06'08"  9N55 + 1'20" 152°04' 22N05  87°14' +31°40' 328°18'   0%

[mikestar13]

I could substitute a blank space for the leading zero in longitude quite easily, consider it done, WRT entries such as 01Li20'24". I would have doubts about expressing 00Pi31'57" as Pi31'57", however, nor do I think reasonable to express the Sun's latitude as N00 or the like. One leading zero in the units column should be retained rather than leaving the degree portion of the entry blank. Should the leading zeros in the tens column of minutes and seconds also be zero suppressed? I'm beginning to think so.

I'm rather dubious of listing the altitude and declination of the major angles, as they are not points, but I suppose that it is harmless to compute them. I know the RA of the Mc is highly meaningful, but what is the declination of the Mc, a great semi-circle that runs pole-to-pole? What is it's altitude? We can of course define them as the latitude/altitude of the point the upper meridian crosses the ecliptic. But at any rate, this idea is becoming quite workable.

OA/OD are critically important internally for calculating parans, but no need to display them.