Planet-Angle contacts: Ecliptically or Mundanely?

[TheScales_BothWays]

Originally posted by myself on Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:18 pm
All times are in MYT/UTC+8

Title says asks it all.
And if you should determine Planet-Angle contacts mundanely, what would you do if both people are from faraway latitudes? Check A's mundane contacts with B's angles in B's birth place, and vice versa?

[TheScales_BothWays]

Jim Eshelman on Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:19 pm

Great question.

I don't think we've done enough work to say definitively. If pressed for an answer right now, I'd say take them ecliptically (except, of course, Eastpoint which only exists as a Right Ascension alias). I say this theoretically because synastric contacts are more like transits, ad work the last several years shows that transits hit ecliptically.

I can also serve up some great anecdotal substantiations of this:

-- My mate's local Ascendant is 27°19' Aquarius, and my Moon 27°24' Aquarius. That's close! In contrast, my Moon rises mundanely at this latitude when Ascendant is 20°02' Aquarius, which is not at all within a reasonable orb for this purpose.

-- Her natal Asc is 4°53' Taurus. My Venus is 1°53' Scorpio. For her birth latitude, my Venus sets at 21°56' Libra. The first one isn't super-close, but it's close enough; and the latter is quite a ways off.

-- My first wife's Asc is 4°06' Scorpio, with my Venus at 1°53' Scorpio. For her birth latitude, my Venus rises at 5°17' Scorpio. Both are acceptable, the mundane is a little closer - not a decisive case.

But I still consider this a tentative conclusion. Do you have any sharp examples one way or the other?

[TheScales_BothWays]

TheScales_BothWays on Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:28 pm

Thank you for your input, Jim. And BTW great examples you got there!

(except, of course, Eastpoint which only exists as a Right Ascension alias)

So, for transits and synastry involving the EP/WP, you need to check them by the planet's Right Ascension, correct? That's something new.

I say this theoretically because synastric contacts are more like transits, and work the last several years shows that transits hit ecliptically.

Yeah, I too am inclined to favour using ecliptical contacts because of this sound theory.

But I still consider this a tentative conclusion. Do you have any sharp examples one way or the other?

Me too. And oh, how nice of you to ask!
Well since I know none of my crushes' birth times, I'll go with my friends' and family's :

– My only gay friend that I know of in real life has my Moon on his Descendant. Ecliptically, this connection is 0°14' wide. Mundanely my Moon sets at 25°23' Capricorn, and OTOH his Descendant is at 25°22' Capricorn. The latter's pretty close, but the former will work regardless since it's partile.

– I have an online friend who's from Gainsborough, UK which I'm really close to and she was the first person to personally know that I'm gay. We've shared a lot. Ecliptically, her Moon is 0°24' away from my 11°48' Aries MC. Mundanely, her 11°24' Aries Moon culminates at 13°04 regardless of location. The in eclipto method wins this round.

- My mother's 17°23' Virgo Venus is 0°03 from my father's 17°26' Virgo Descendant, while my mother's Venus sets at 17°57' Virgo. The jury's inclined to favour the ecliptic connection.

So out of my scant examples, 2 out of 3 favoured the ecliptic, but for the one inclining towards the in mundo method works well ecliptically too. So I'm not sure whether this actually adds anything instead of some small plus-points on the in eclipto method.

Anyone else here who'd like to chime in and provide some precious input? I'm eager for you to do so!

[TheScales_BothWays]

Arena on Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:10 pm

If we consider mundane aspects to angles, the logical conclusion would be to look at overall aspects mundanely. I have a few things to say about this, f.ex. that there is nothing conclusive to your examples, we need to compare the whole chart, elliptically and mundanely. F.ex. an online friend may not have their moon as closest contact, it might be a Mercury thing.
I will get back when I have my computer up and running. This topic needs way more attention and discussion.

I would like to post a paragraph about this from Robert Hands book.

[TheScales_BothWays]

TheScales_BothWays on Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:57 am

F.ex. an online friend may not have their moon as closest contact, it might be a Mercury thing.

Yeah her Uranus is squaring my Moon-Mercury.

I will get back when I have my computer up and running. This topic needs way more attention and discussion.

I would like to post a paragraph about this from Robert Hands book.

Be my guest when you do get your computer, Arena. I can wait.