An abusive, long-lasting relationship

[Jim Eshelman]

A correspondent recently sent birth data of a most interesting couple. I wanted to share this for the considerable value the example has. I wish we had more information (and that less of it was based on family rumors), but we do have a lot and the charts speak for themselves. I'll add an analysis I provided.

This was a physically abusive relationship involving drinking. He was reputedly the aggressor. When John unexpectedly died, Mary was found in a catatonic state clutching his photo. She was institutionalized and never truly recovered from his death. Her 1969 Solar Return probably took place in London, UK, where they lived.

According to his birth certificate, John was born 1899 Nov 5, 8:25 PM, in Glasgow, Scotland. Mary (also from her birth certificate) was born 1908 Aug 28, 4:00 AM, same city. He died 1969 Sep 12 in London, England. She died in Woodstock, Ontario 1982 Feb 16.

[Jim Eshelman]

It's always great to see data like this (not that it's great to hear about such things happening). It seems the questions center around exactly what happened at his death? Perhaps who killed whom?

Before getting into it more fully: The theory that Sedna activates an archetype connected to one or the other side of abuse (including intertwining themes of victimization, revenge, rage) doesn't hold up in these charts: Sedna is a non-presence in both natals.

So, taking a look at the natals:

John's chart is entirely credible for what you describe (especially given era and place). He was a Libra-Scorpio with Mars also in Scorpio. Moon and Mars in Scorpio can turn to brutality - certainly the Moon can be volcanic if there aren't fair outlets for rage. More telling to me, though, is the Libra Sun, common in that era for men who got mixed gender messages from the world, then tend to be outwardly passive, unsure of their masculinity, turning into bullies and brutes to affirm it.

His Moon aspects are intense: Ecliptically, Moon opposes Pluto (which is on EP exactly, his most angular planet). Mundanely, Moon conjoins Uranus most closely, then Mercury, Venus, Mars, and Saturn. Uranus and Pluto closely aspecting a "fallen" Scorpio Moon pretty much rips open and defies convention (a conflict with his Sun-Jupiter conjunction). Add Mars and Saturn to the mix and you have potential brutality. - He may also have enjoyed danger, threat, and (actual or feigned) violence as part of his sexuality. - BTW, do you think he might have been gay (which was a serious felony at the time)? That puts a very different spin on the story. In any case, his passions were enormous (not also Venus-Mars conjunction) and he wasn't shy about when, where, and how he expressed them. Scorpio Moon and the Mercury-Mars conjunction (in Scorpio) are consistent with the alcoholism you mentioned.

However, Mary was no pushover or shrinking violet! Both luminaries and Mars were in Leo - five Leo planets altogether, with Sun, Mars, and Jupiter foreground. She must have been elegant, stately, a real catch. Her Sun-Mars was octile Venus - they were both creatures of great passion. - Her Moon is complicated, with lesser (but very close) aspects to Saturn and Pluto, then the strong, rising conjunction with Jupiter.

She doesn't have victim indicators except, perhaps, the close Venus-Neptune conjunction (sextile Moon), which often means poor discrimination in love - picking badly, being fooled, only seeing the best in the wrong people. Still, it's not enough to label her a victim type. Also, under normal circumstances, one would much more expect him to commit murder than her (though everybody has their limits, I suppose).

Synastry...

Her Leo luminaries have rapport with his Scorpio Moon. These show compatibility through commonalities of temperament and, if anything, her being the more dominant. (She was naturally more likely to take lead; but they both had strong Jupiter that would want to follow social conventions of the day.)

Her planets around his chart: She really loved him and was devoted to him. Her Venus was exactly on his Ascendant, her Moon tightly conjunct his IC: She was Moon + Venus toward him. (Add wider Uranus-Neptune to the mix. There is no shortage of psychological opportunity for kink.)

Her Sun-Mars squared his Mercury-Mars. This can be combative, though usually it is "comrades in arms," slaying dragons together. It can be powerfully physical, with him being a teacher in the matter in some fashion and taking some dominance or lead. Her Moon squares his Saturn, though - it shows his likely distance, a sense that (emotionally or physically) he eventually would leave. Her Moon squared his Pluto: As a couple, they marched to their own drumbeat, and likely were drawn together like moths to a common flame with an edge of danger. Her Jupiter squared his Venus within minutes, quite a good interchange.

His Mars and Venus were well treated by her Sun and benefics. Other than the Moon-Saturn square, there isn't a bad aspect in the bunch. (Mars-Mars is usually positive in practice.) The deeper I get into this, the more it seems like John had some psychological issues to deal with but, overall, this was a strong couple of enormous passions who likely shared a lot of kinks sexually - especially in drama and domination, and perhaps actual danger - that she adored him, etc. I would expect damaged emotions in him as a significant piece of his nature, but not necessarily violence. (If he were to be truly aberrated, it would become violent.)

[Jim Eshelman]

My correspondent wrote back:

Thanks, Jim! Great analysis, I didn't pick up half of what you did. As to whether he was gay, I'm unsure. The entire family despised him and loved her. She was a lovely person and somewhat involved in psychic activities, predicting events, etc. She was obsessed with him and chased him to London when she was in her late teens. He was prone to picking up quite suddenly and moving to a different country, five of them to be exact. Mary was not his first choice, he was in love with another woman who rejected him.

[Jim Eshelman]

Regarding her need to be institutionalized: That's not obvious to me from her natal chart so it's nothing that was innate to her character. Possibly a response to his death and, just maybe, entirely reflecting her loss of him.

Let's look at their charts for his death.

John, at his death in London, had transiting Neptune 1° from conjunct his Venus. Mars was recently past his Saturn and Sun not quite yet square his Saturn (angular on any collateral charts?). The transits by themselves aren't persuasive. - I do note, though, that by moving to London he put natal Saturn square his Midheaven 1°12'.

The one loud feature of his secondary progressions is a partile Sun-Mars conjunction. Does this show his violence increasing? Being a victim of it? Straining his health? Not sure. It could be any or all, especially things that came from a natural unfolding of his character over time.

His Solar Arcs were crazy busy, though: Repeating the above symbolism, directed Mars (and, more broadly, d Mercury-Mars) squared natal Sun. Directed MC was still in orb of opposition to natal Venus. Directed Saturn squared natal Mars. The concurrent Mars to Sun (-28') and Saturn to Mars (+21') tells us there is a natal Mars = Sun/Saturn midpoint that that got triggered: Calculation confirms Ma = Su/Sa 25' = Ve/Ur 20' = Ju/Pl 49' and barely = Mo/Ju.

Ma = Su/Sa is a harsh structure. These two solar arcs are the clearest indication of a death yet, probably from a coronary incident but possibly from violence.

His final SSR has natal Mars 0°03' from Midheaven - lots of Mars here, with natal Mars showing a tendency to get hurt. SSR Moon is in partile opposition to Neptune's transit to his natal Venus. - BTW, though it's only one possibility, I keep seeing things suggesting he was in the closet. The primary meaning of Neptune's transit Venus is "desire for an out-of-reach love object," and there is no reason to think this would have meant his wife. She seems entirely within his reach.

His final intense SLR shows transiting Neptune conjunct natal Venus 1°02', with both on WP. He had five other foreground natal planets: The Neptune-Venus transit is the main feature, but his natal Neptune-Pluto and Venus-Jupiter also were foreground.

His final (September 3) Demi-SLR is even more complicated, with 10 foreground planets. The closest of these are transiting Mars, and natal Jupiter, Sun, and Saturn. Using only 10 planets, there were 10 foreground close aspects, with the strongest being Moon conjunct natal Mars-Uranus and transiting Mars on natal Moon-Saturn-Uranus-Pluto!!! Take a look (these are mostly mundoscope positions). [r Jupiter is closest but isn't involved in these aspects] While I think it is probably showing a health condition (probably heart), it otherwise would be suggestive of a surprise attack. (I suppose a heart attack could be "a surprise attack" too.)

20°12' 12H - t Moon
20°26' 6H - r Mars
23°10' 6H - r Uranus
25°11' 6H - r Moon
25°52' 6H - t Mars - 25°38' Sco
--------------------------------------
2°02' 7H - r Saturn - 28°00' Sco
5°54 1H - r Neptune
8°04' 1H - r Pluto - 22°56' Tau

His PSSR had transiting Mars on MC, suggesting that the birth time is reliable.


And what about Mary?

Transiting Jupiter opposed her Saturn. This is the first hint (even a hint) of something irregular, since the transit usually means that one gets relief from something that has been plaguing one, and perhaps is the "beneficiary of a loss." Mars is approaching opposition to her Pluto, but not yet there. Most poignant, transiting Sun exactly conjoined her Moon that morning, making this a singularly important day of the year when she was likely recipient of exceptional attention of some sort - a day of unusual significance for her. - These transits are strange, suggestive, inconclusive, but with one that makes her a standout of some sort on that day.

Another solar indicator - for the whole year - is that progressed Sun was exactly crossing natal IC. Another indication that this event was a positive event (which, however, left her catatonic!) was an exact progressed Moon-Jupiter square. (Solar arcs add nothing.)

Transits and progressions, therefore, primarily show a positive, relieving, saving, recovering event. I'm quite unsatisfied with these compared to your description, and want to rely mostly on her solunars.

Her SSR for London was busy with seven transiting and seven natal planets foreground - 14 in all. The very closest were transiting Moon, Mars, Mercury, and Pluto, and natal Mercury and Mars. This sounds hurtful (somehow traumatic - we know this much already). Both natal and SSR Moon-Pluto oppositions are foreground, so trauma is evident. (As a bit of a Wow!, there was one further Moon-Pluto: PSSR Moon was 0°03' Pisces, transiting Pluto 0°24' Virgo. The Moon-Pluto of the SSR zeroed in on this time.) The main transiting planet aspects are Mercury to Uranus and Jupiter to Uranus; the main natal aspects Moon-Pluto and Sun-Mars-Jupiter; and transits to natals were numerous. - I don't want to draw many conclusions from this other than to say trauma and significant life change (some sort of doubled-up Moon-Pluto event) seems most obvious.

Her new 9/11 SLR is enormously interesting. Remember that Jupiter transit to natal Saturn? In the SLR, her Saturn is only 0°03' from Ascendant (!!), transiting Jupiter 1°17' from Dsc, the transit 0°27' wide. I have to treat this as "relief from trouble," a slate wiped clean, resolution of financial problems - its usual interpretations. The SLR also has Sun conjunct Moon 0°08' - one expects a "phase change" in life probably involving a close, primary relationship. We have more Mercury-Jupiter-Uranus, again a revelation? - but also a 0°16' Saturn-Pluto opposition. Jupiter and Uranus aspect natal Moon.

I know you said she was found catatonic, but this SLR tells me her problems were solved and she experienced that she had just attained a better life situation.

Her SNQ has natal Venus exactly on MC and natal Neptune on Zenith. I don't know what to make of this. (There is also the progressed Moon-Jupiter square.)

Her SQ EP is the degree of Jupiter's transit to natal Saturn, again suggesting this is the primary transit for her for this event.

I don't see violence to her or in this event, but I see trauma or separation clearly. I also see relief, betterment, escaping something crappy. I can see the institutionalization due to all the Pluto - not a the mental breakdown directly but a life-shifting event involving isolation.

That's all I've got today.

[Jim Eshelman]

My correspondent replied:

Wow, more than I expected, thank you! It’s good to read your interpretation of the various aspects in play, it gives me much to think about.

These stories could be magnified in the retelling. (Aren’t they always?) Mary was definitely in the hospital, eventually moving to Canada to live with her daughter. Maybe the trauma of John having a heart attack and dying on a sidewalk was the catalyst for the catatonia. There were no family or friends in London - she was totally alone, which would increase the shock. They had not been back in the UK that long from what I remember.

[Jim Eshelman]

Mary's chart kept looking familiar... and, sure enough, President Lyndon Johnson was born August 27, 1908, with a late Cancer or (more likely) early Leo Ascendant. One day earlier, same Moon sign, essentially the same angles.

So, they'd been together for about 40 years? As I mentioned yesterday, her chart is strong and their relationship looked excellent. (Even the Moon-Saturn interchange, in the midst of extremely positive synastry overall, must have had an enduring, persisting quality to their long marriage (though, true to course, the Saturn person - John - did the "leaving" at the end). I don't know if things soured over the years, or whether they had money so that she gained inheritance and control, but her charts do show relief and gain in the event of his death.

But also triple Moon-Pluto at his death. That's the biggy for separation, life-changing, and isolation (institutionalization).

Her August 21 Kinetic Lunar put natal/progressed Pluto on Descendant as the strongest feature. Her Demi-KLR had Mars rising square natal Moon on Zenith and natal Neptune exactly on WP. Her 10-Day solar was stunning (I keep forgetting to check these!) with a Venus-Saturn square on the angles and transiting Moon exactly on EP as its main features.

Other charts were mildly indicative, or complex enough to seem contradictory. These were the ones I checked that spoke most vividly. As often happens with gigantic events, most of the primary and secondary techniques came together to show similar themes; but the bang, bang, BIG BANG of the SSR's triple Moon-Pluto stands out most to me, other than the persistent popping up of Jupiter's transit to her Saturn.

[Jim Eshelman]

My correspondent replied:

There was a family inheritance which he controlled. It was originally left to him a few years before he died but that’s another story!

A quick question, do Moon-Saturn contacts in Synastry, between friends or a parent/child, indicate that the Saturn person often leaves the relationship?

[Jim Eshelman]

Danica, who was in on an online discussion, added:

Her Venus is much stronger (=an important drive for character & life) than it looks at first glance: is octile the Sun 27', the strongest dynamic aspect with the Sun, as well as strongest dynamic aspect that either of the Luminaries are configured with, in whole.

And he had a Scorpio stellium - seven planets and the North Lunar Node (or 6 planets, if we want to exclude Chiron from observation), which include one Light, and the trio of "personal planets" - Moon, Mercury, Venus and Mars! - this may be a clue re the tendencies of behavior and the choices (on both sides), and her continued profound emotional attachment, even to her own detriment and for long after he died.

Re what you asked about Moon-Saturn in synastry:

I'd say there's a tendency for the Moon-side to feel dissatisfied (potentially in some personally very-important for them way blocked/inhibited), rather than the tendency for the Saturn-side to leave. But it's always in the context of a unique combination of inter-aspects between two charts, so everything else included along with this planetary contact will "color"/affect the whole picture (and show the "gradient", re how strong is this specifically in comparison with all else that's also there).

How this played out for John and Mary - I think has a lot to do with the nurture side in the nature-nurture "equation" (the early formative environment of each, and the core Values, and related models of behavioral patterns, adopted) ... her Venus tight on his angle - allowing for her to more openly/directly express this aspect of her being through the contact; and this within the context of Venus being so important for the psyche - tightly dynamically tied with the solar ergie itself - while also tied with Neptune - for the "unattainable", the emotional attachment to a story/ideal, etc ...

[Jim Eshelman]

My correspondent replied:

Basically, I grew up hearing Mary was a victim. Upon seeing her chart, it didn’t seem that way, maybe a ‘victim’ to love. She appeared to me a strong person, a true Leo in a two-way street relationship. John’s personality more difficult to comprehend.