Location Database problems?

[Jim Eshelman]

Mike, for the last week or so I've been having problems with TMSA connecting to the location database. I initially thought this was only at work, and we're always adding more network filtering security (and it worked at home in the evenings), but I just had the same error message at home ("Unable to connect to location database."). I can get the information elsewhere and type it in, but thought I'd mention the problem in case there is any light you can shed, or this is something correctible. (I know you're working on a different source for this information for forthcoming versions on a different code base, but the current solution has worked great until now).

[mikestar13]

The problem is on Nominatim's end, I have been experiencing the same issue with 1.0. They have tightened their terms of service, a license may be required. Doubtless Solar Fire has the necessary licenses--they can afford it. I will be searching for alternatives, and getting quotes if no free ones are available. I have a no/low cost option for finding the time zone given lat, long, and time/date. Now we need an alternative for getting lat and long given the place name.

[Jim Eshelman]

Thanks. BTW, Solar Fire doesn't use an outside data base. They have the America Atlas installed with the program.

[mikestar13]

That may be the best alternative of all if we could afford to license it.

[mikestar13]

For manual lookup, Astrodienst has an excellent database but the will not allow programatic lookup. TimezoneDB allows lookup by place name for $5/month or $50 per year.

[Jim Eshelman]

Per user or per program?

[mikestar13]

Per program.

[Jim Eshelman]

Today it's working just fine.

[mikestar13]

Strange. Nominatim may not be having an issue with TMSA per se but may be having traffic issues with their servers (they're quite widely used by both individuals and programs (most of which are non-astrological). BTW, TMSA queries Nominatim with one of 10,000 random ID, this avoids multiple requests near the same time from being throttled. Unlike other providers, you do not purchase a key, you invent your own (which if you ask me makes the use of an ID key kinda pointless).

[Jim Eshelman]

To summarize the above: This thread began when it looked like the long/lat/time data resources Mikestar13 built into TMSA was no longer available. This turned out not to be true - it was simply overwhelmed so we got a lot of "not available" errors. That passed (I still get a few, relatively rare not available errors and then simply manually add the info from other sources or wait it out.)

Mike then found another resource that would only cost $5/month to license for TMSA (one charge per program, not per user). If it comes to that, there will be no problem paying the $5/month.

It does remind us, though, that TMSA is vulnerable to having outside resources on which it relies become unavailable or change how they are accessed in the future. Because we are a free resource, an ideal solution would be for a significant resource such as the American Atlas (or other) to give us a permanent free license.

[Veronica]

I dont think they legally can give a permanent free license.
I might be wrong, but they legally have to vet for sites they give permission and ensure the data is not being utilized in corrupt, nefarious, criminal, or public safety issues.....ie they dont want it being used by terrorists to deploy bombs. If a permanent free license is granted, I infer that a one time vetting would occur and them never looked into again, which implies that a terrorist could set up a fake platform to pass the initial vetting, and then afterwards change the platform to their terroristic mode. An extreme example but one of National security concerns I'm sure.
A possible solution is establishing Aldebaran Sidereal Academy as an entity of higher education, a real school of sorts with a mission and charter and then apply for a license which Afaik costs can be gifted or granted. You probably know more about the legality of licensing then I do,so maybe I'm wrong and overthinking things.

[Mike V]

Quick thought since it occurred to me, there are lots of threads I mean to reply to...

All of the best resources are unfortunately license-based. Keeping track of place names, timezone issues, etc is no small task, and people rarely undertake such things long-term for free. That doesn't mean that we can't get a free license with some restrictions, like what we've had so far. There are also some offline ones that I have found and used already.

So here's my first thought...

Get a license, whether free or cheap. ($5/month is nothing and I'd be happy to take that on, and would accept donations if anyone feels like it, but I'm blessed to be in a position where that is negligible for me and I can bankroll it.) Use that primarily.
When we make a network call using that license and discover that we have reached the limit of our usage, we can fall back to the offline one.

[Jim Eshelman]

I agree in principle and don't think we need that move yet. After a short burst of (what appears to have been) the one currently in use being too busy, it performs well - I almost never get an "unavailable" and they've only last a few minutes. I agree $5 is nothing and free is even better (I think MikeN was using the free version of the one that costs $5/mo for a fuller use).