Outlaw aspect: Mars-Pluto

[Jim Eshelman]

Nov 23, 2014

I have in my study notes from my study of Jim’s book ‘Interpreting Solar Returns’ about Mars-Pluto configurations: "aggression aimed at the individual, can be very dangerous, outlaw aspect."

I have a very good friend who has an 18 year old step son he dearly loves. His son was born Feb 16th 1996, 5:15 PM CST, Fairhope, Alabama, 30N31, 087,W54. As we can see the most angular planets is the Sun-Mars conjunction with Mars 1,51 orb square Pluto. This configuration is obviously the signature of his Natal Chart based on the principles of Sidereal Astrology.

His son has been bullied a-lot in high school and has been kicked-out of two high schools for various reasons. Presently his son is on a two year probation with the law and risks some type of serious jail sentence if his probation is broken. Yesterday my friend learned his son was dealing drugs in his first year of college. My friend is in a distraught situation and has exhausted all his resources for guiding his son onto a better path. His son has always liked me and I asked my friend if it would be OK for me to discuss certain astrological matters with his son. My friend is at his wits end and granted me permission to talk with his son. My plan is to show the son what Jim wrote in the late 70,s about Mars-Pluto aspects being associated with ‘outlaw aspects.’ Basically, I am going to explain to his son in an astrological manner if he does not take control of his life—he will find himself leading a life in prison and/or risking physical harm. Weather or not my astrological discussion with the son will do any good remains to be known—but it certainly can’t worsen matters.

[Jim Eshelman]

It is indeed worth trying to reach into the developing soul of this young man before it is too late.

Something at the back of my head tells me that mars-pluto aspects may also have to do with the person being sexually abused...has it been explored?

[Jim Eshelman]

I think this is a fabulous idea.

The matter is more complicated, of course. He seems spoiled - privileged and cantankerous about it. He seems rebellious, and to have particular conflict issues with his father. He also seems enormously curious, engaged by novel and bizarre things (including astrology, I suspect), and could have his imagination captured by something suitably weird.

[Jim Eshelman]

Arena wrote:

Something at the back of my head tells me that mars-pluto aspects may also have to do with the person being sexually abused...has it been explored?

Could be a possibility. I know he was psychically abused by being beaten-up in late grade school and early high school. Today, he is a mere 100 lb weakling with a very weird stubborn diet. If not sexually abused in the past—most certainly will be if imprisoned.

Jim wrote:

The matter is more complicated, of course. He seems spoiled - privileged and cantankerous about it. He seems rebellious, and to have particular conflict issues with his father. He also seems enormously curious, engaged by novel and bizarre things (including astrology, I suspect), and could have his imagination captured by something suitably weird.

Exactly Jim! It is very complicated. He is terribly spoiled--privileged and very quarrelsome. He had a-lot of issues with his blood father before he died when the kid was 12 years old. Growing-up as a kid—all he did was play violent (Mars-Pluto) video games and when his mother and my friend tried to limit this activity he threaten them with a knife. Three years ago my friend and this kid unexpected walked into my office and the kid saw an astrological chart on my monitor and became very intrigued—asking many questions. I think I may be able to reach a part of him with some language of Sidereal Astrology—let’s hope so.

[Jim Eshelman]

Would you think that a prominent Mars-Pluto aspect always goes both ways? ... that is the one who has it would be abused as well as abuse or inflict violence onto others?

[Jim Eshelman]

At root, it means that the individual's psyche requires the experience of ferocious, explosive intense, confrontational force. (Notice I left out "violent," which is only one form. It can all be psychological.)

I think you'll find that all the individual expressions are only variations of this cote theme.

[Jim Eshelman]

Would you think that a prominent Mars-Pluto aspect always goes both ways? ... that is the one who has it would be abused as well as abuse or inflict violence onto others?

I'll side-step the astrology of it and pass along an observation from what I understand of psychology:

People who are abused or witness abuse tend to identify either with the abuser or with the abused, thus becoming either a victimizer or an eternal victim, respectively.

That said, we can return to astrology in hopes of identifying the patterns predisposing to one or the other.

-Derek

[Jim Eshelman]

Arena wrote:

Would you think that a prominent Mars-Pluto aspect always goes both ways? ... that is the one who has it would be abused as well as abuse or inflict violence onto others?

In this case, yes. One school expelled him for hitting another kid in the back of the head with a full size brick--it put the kid in a hospital for two weeks. His reason for doing this violent act was the other kid kicked him in the head several times while other kids forced him to the ground.

[Jim Eshelman]

JSAD wrote:

You might look at his relocation possiblities as well. Might not be what his parents would prefer, but it's an option. Moving that Mars-Pluto off the angles at least till he's older, would probably take a lot of pressure off him.

Good idea Jupiter—I will mention this possibility to my friend.

I would't argue that relocation would be a solution here - it would only make it difficult for him to directly express the Sun-Mars and Mars-Pluto combos, which will nevertheless still be there. It's better to suggest him to find a way to consciously direct (i.e. recognize & express) the needs portrayed by these planetary combos (he needs challenging situations, intense confrontation, opportunity to express his courage and physical strength, etc. - martial arts perhaps, or a job that will allow him to channel those energies through it).
His Moon is conjunct Uranus-Mercury (only 06' wide) conjunction, and conjunct Neptune (the Moon is about 3* from both of these), so I bet he is intelligent and open-minded enough to consider your astrological advice, and perhaps even become interested in studying astrology himself.

[Jim Eshelman]

Thanks Danica, I will make sure my friend sees your words. When the kid nearly killed another kid with the brick on the high school playground, I recommended to my friend to get his step son to a child psychologist. I did this because I had learned from Jim the dangers associated with Mars-Pluto signatures and Mary Downing, another professional astrologer, had wrote many years ago—most troubled kids with Mars-Pluto signatures should be guided to a good child psychologist. Mary Downing said she had seen excellent results with Mars-Pluto troubled kids working with child psychologists.

Eventually, with approval from a child psychologist the step father hired a professional teacher to teach his step son for training in a specialized school for target shooting. The step son absolutely fell in love with this training and went on to compete in shooting tournaments placing higher than most adults. In other words, the kid was a natural when it came to handling and shooting small fire arms. One day the step son told the child psychologist he would like to enlist in the army for some kind of specialized training for a career. The kid met with the army and told them he wanted to become a bomb specialist. The army tested him and he scored very high and the army signed him-up for entry into the specialized field of diffusing bombs after he graduated high school. Then the kid got into trouble with the law being placed on two year probation—which knocked him out any possibility for the specialized army training.

So, as you can see, the kid’s step father has tried to guide his step son to better paths, but now seems to be loosing to forces outside his control. It appears now-- the kid’s Mars-Pluto signature is getting the worst of him in a malefic manner. Both the step father and Mother have very malefic SSR’s coming-up in Jan and March. I will later post the birth data of the Mother & Step Father for our future learning discussions for this intense and sad family situation. The Mother has already stated if her son comes back home, she is moving far away from her son—she is scared to death of her own son. As Jim has stated: matters such as these situations are always complicated.

[Jim Eshelman]

Jan 11, 2015

Update:

The kid was kicked out of college a month ago. Last Sunday night 11:40 PM my friend was awoken by two police officers and a detective trying to find my friend’s stepson for passing counterfeit $20.00 bills. Remember, the kid is already on probation and counterfeiting is a Federal offense. If charged, he will go to prison. Also, remember this thread is about the Kid’s Natal signature—angular Mars square Pluto—the ‘outlaw’ aspect. My friend called me yesterday and asked me if I saw any symbolism in the kid’s upcoming SSR indicating jail-prison.

Kid’s AA birth: Feb 16th 1996, 5:15 PM CST, Fairhope, Alabama, 30N31, 087,W54. Now residing in Gulf Shores Alabama.

His Feb 2015 SSR is very malefic. Note mundo Pluto 1,02 cnj Dsc partile 90 Uranus. The next closest angular planet in the foreground is Mars, offering Mars-Pluto (the outlaw) symbolism. His transits for his solar year are harsh. Note t. Saturn tight cnj his Natal Pluto. Saturn is very slow in motion at the time of the SSR remaining at 9 Scorpio till April. Transiting Saturn will be exciting his Natal signature of Mars-Pluto. No help from his SSR Moon partile 60 SSR Mars and cnj Natal Neptune. Will update later.

[Jim Eshelman]

Sounds like a relocation is going to happen. Maybe it would be worth finding a list of federal prisons and checking his relocation charts so instead of asking he be remanded to one close for his parents to visit, he be sent to one that will help mitigate his difficult aspects, both in his natal chart and in future returns (he'll likely be in prison for longer than this one SSR.)

[Jim Eshelman]

Jupiter wrote:

(…he'll likely be in prison for longer than this one SSR.)

I see what you mean. I calculated his next few SSR’s in Gulf Shores and excluding 2016 SSR they are nasty. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

[Jim Eshelman]

How sad. I can only wish that he had been relocated before this happened.
Is there any chance that he wont go to prison?

[Jim Eshelman]

Arena asked:

Is there any chance that he wont go to prison?

The kid claims the person he was with at the restaurant passed the counterfeit 20, but they were in the kid’s car which the manager got the license plate numbers. One thing for sure, the kid’s immediate environment is running with thugs and this group of kids are more than likely close to whoever is producing the counterfeit money. The detective told my friend there is a-lot of counterfeit money showing-up in the city. My friend is afraid if his stepson has to go to prison, the kid will run and/or commit suicide. My friend’s AA rated birth time:

Jan 8th 1948, 10:05 AM Birmingham, Alabama. Note his current SSR for Gulf Shores, Alabama. This SSR speaks with clarity considering my friend’s current environment.
Tight 180 Moon-Mars tightly cnj MC-IC axis.
Mars partile 45 Uranus
Mars almost partile 45 Pluto
Moon partile 135 Pluto
Moon almost partile 135 Uranus
Partile 90 Uranus-Pluto
Saturn partile cnj WP
Mercury partile cnj Venus

Whatever the final outcome of this family crisis, it will not be pleasant.

[Jim Eshelman]

Aug 19, 2015

I wrote:

Whatever the final outcome of this family crisis, it will not be pleasant.

The 19 year old kid committed suicide last night.

[Jim Eshelman]

Steve, I'm so sorry

[Jim Eshelman]

In reposting this thread today, I looked at the chart and - surprise! - it's a near match for our own Patrick M.

This young man was born Feb 16, 1996, 23:15 UT in Alabama.
Patrick was born Feb 17, 1996, 7:40 UT in Brazil.

That's just over 8 hours apart.

[Patrick Machado]

There are other details, of course, but I think the main difference between both charts is which end of the Moon-Sun axis is emphasized (by angularity, since the luminaries are equally in detriment). That is very significant because the overall mesh of everything is otherwise kept.

If we take into account the Novien or 10°-multiple aspects, his Venus and Jupiter are emphasized in a way mine are not. I am confident that he was much less inhibited than I during his lifetime. Even in that regard, the Sun as his most foreground planet is enough.

[Veronica]

At root, it means that the individual's psyche requires the experience of ferocious, explosive intense, confrontational force. (Notice I left out "violent," which is only one form. It can all be psychological.)

I think you'll find that all the individual expressions are only variations of this cote theme.

In reading this today, I am reminded of a dance lesson I had as a child.
Dance is one of the most powerful tools we have to express ourselves, and express ideas that are hard to find the perfect words for.
I mention this in case someone with this aspect reads this and is looking for healthy creative expressions of this aspect.

It is a shame that we dont dance more, and have more community dances, but we can dance at home with our own favorite music and pretend no one is watching.