Problems with Aggression and Being Assertive

[Jim Eshelman]

(10/22/16)

I have problems being assertive and confident. When I was young my habit would be to bottle up my anger until I couldn't anymore and I would explode uncontrollably. I rarely expressed my anger in appropriate ways because when I was a kid I was told my feelings were not valid, so I never bothered to express them. So I hid them instead.

Today I'm getting better with my anger issues but I still have some problems. I still tend to bottle up angry feelings until I explode. I have no middle ground with being assertive. I'm usually very sweet and docile except for the rare instant I become a raging lunatic. I hold a lot back in confrontations because I'm afraid if I do I will say or do the cruelest things to a person. I know the weakest point of almost every person I'm close to, which makes things worse.

This issue carries over into relationships too. With women I'm very nice and charming but as docile as a pussycat to the point where I "desexualize" myself as my therapist puts it. I'm a little scared of my own masculine sexuality because I'm afraid of becoming brutal and misogynistic if I embrace it. I have trouble finding middle ground with being confidant and assertive. I'm either a lap dog or Ted Bundy.

What astrological factors in my natal chart and progressed chart are responsible? My Mars is in detriment in Taurus AND in retrograde but Jim says I have pronounced Mars aspects / or Mars being in the foreground. At least that's how I remember it. But astrologically it doesn't seem to add up. What's going on and what can I do to further fix my problems? Help?

[Jim Eshelman]

By Jove wrote:

Jim says I have pronounced Mars aspects / or Mars being in the foreground.

Very true, 1,09 cnj your Eastpoint, a potent Mars placement and partile 135 Neptune. Without a doubt this partile Mars-Neptune aspect is your most dominating chart aspect per the core principles of Sidereal Astrology. The following link written by Jim may offer you some more insight into your dominating Mars-Neptune aspect.

http://solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=19& ... rt=15#p157

And you Natal Moon is tight cnj your Natal Neptune.

[Jim Eshelman]

Astrologically speaking we've giving you all you need. Mars-Neptune, Spoke Sun and Moon in Sag, strong Mars, etc.
You have expressed deep personal concerns. By doing so I think helps already in that you are aware and reaching out to others for guidance. Now we can help you to find answers and support if we're being honest. I can only imagine and guess how astrology can really help you or anyone with these concerns. In other words you have found the limits of astrological progress or human ignorance.
As an analogy think of tools and their relative purpose. A shovel is used to dig, a car to drive from point , a hammer for hitting nails and so on. By asking these questions to astrology you are using a shovel to hit a nail. This isn't going to work properly. You need a hammer to hit the nail properly.
Trust me though you will be fine in time. I have had the same questions answered through time. Look into philosophy and spiritual books. Not the internet! Read real books; they're easier on the eyes and you can focus on the pages. The internet has too many options, temptations and distractions.

[Jim Eshelman]

Take a macro approach- the big picture. We are all people and everything is connected.
Do not compare your self to anything, to others. She is pretty, he is tall-Are they? Ask yourself. Everything is relative. We can take this a couple of ways at least. Relative? We are all related-yes. And everything depends on something else-yes. With the sun being where it is relative to Earth and everything else we are here. A tree is beautiful I think to myself. But this thought doesn't really describe my connection to the tree. I cannot really transfer to another my relative feeling of joy this tree gives me. I am in the tree and the tree is in me. We are not the same as the tree. We are not different than the tree. There is not a tree without me. There is not me without the tree. This is experience. This is experienced.

[Jim Eshelman]

By Jove wrote:

Jim says I have pronounced Mars aspects / or Mars being in the foreground.

Very true, 1,09 cnj your Eastpoint, a potent Mars placement and partile 135 Neptune. Without a doubt this partile Mars-Neptune aspect is your most dominating chart aspect per the core principles of Sidereal Astrology. The following link written by Jim may offer you some more insight into your dominating Mars-Neptune aspect.

http://solunars.net/viewtopic.php?f=19& ... rt=15#p157

And you Natal Moon is tight cnj your Natal Neptune.

I finally get it. I originally had trouble understanding these features. I don't know how to get the east point in a natal chart on astro.com. As for 135 deg, I didn't know such an aspect existed. It's even called a sesqui-quadrate. I thought it was a minor aspect in astrology, something not as strong as a square.

[Jim Eshelman]

In other words you have found the limits of astrological progress or human ignorance.

The limits of astrology would actually make an interesting general discussion.

As an analogy think of tools and their relative purpose. A shovel is used to dig, a car to drive from point , a hammer for hitting nails and so on. By asking these questions to astrology you are using a shovel to hit a nail. This isn't going to work properly. You need a hammer to hit the nail properly.

Trust me though you will be fine in time. I have had the same questions answered through time. Look into philosophy and spiritual books. Not the internet! Read real books; they're easier on the eyes and you can focus on the pages. The internet has too many options, temptations and distractions.

So I shouldn't be using astrology to help me out in this case...?

[Jim Eshelman]

By Jove wrote:

I finally get it. I originally had trouble understanding these features. I don't know how to get the east point in a natal chart on astro.com. As for 135 deg, I didn't know such an aspect existed. It's even called a sesqui-quadrate. I thought it was a minor aspect in astrology, something not as strong as a square.

An angular partile 135 is definitely not a minor aspect with a Sidereal Astrologer. The East & West points for any chart are “extremely significant positions” taught by Jim and other Sidereal Astrologers. Also, Sidereal Astrologers look at all harmonic 8 aspects (360/8=45 degrees) and a tight sesqui-quadrate (135) or partile 135 is very important when aspected to an angular planet and your Natal Mars is on an ‘auxiliary’ angle, the East Point. Jim teaches partile aspects ‘reign supreme’ so you must understand, taught by Sidereal Astrology, your angular Mars partile 135 your Neptune and tight 135 your Natal Moon is the most important “tone” setter for your entire natal chart/life. Jim teaches that “all other planetary aspects usually manifest within the context of angular tone setters.” Since Mars has a-lot to do with psychological obsessive/compulsive disorders, a Sidereal Astrologers clearly sees and understands your OCD with this main tone/theme setter in your life—Mars-partile 135 Neptune illuminated by your Natal Moon tightly aspected to Mars & Neptune. I am glad I could help you understand astrologically why you were born with a strong OCD trait. Once your mind accepts the astrological truth of this Mars-Neptune psychological matter inherent in your soul/spirit, you are then able to exercise a certain amount of will power to help overcome the negatives of this Mars-Neptune aspect interwoven in your life at birth. Also, if you carefully read Jim’s Mars-Neptune link it will help your mind to focus more on the positives of Mars-Neptune.

[Jim Eshelman]

An angular partile 135 is definitely not a minor aspect with a Sidereal Astrologer.

Keywords: Angular and Partile. If it's not angular nor partile, a 135 is a minor aspect.
If you had an angular partile 90, that might overwhelm a 135. But you don't have a square that would take precedence.

Actually you have a 1° Neptune-Moon conjunction 135 from Mars. I think it's more useful to treat the Moon and Neptune as a unit.

[Jim Eshelman]

Yes, the semi-square (half-square) and sesqui-square (square and a half) are less potent than a square. However, in terms of overt manifestation, they are significantly more "punchy" than a trine or sextile. The key to remember is that the 45° series of aspects (0, 45, 90, 135, 180) are the dynamic, outward expressing, energized, moving aspects, whereas those in the trine series are static, still, holding, etc.

Add angularity and, yes, it hits a whole new level. However, close aspects in this dynamic series are always important.

[Jim Eshelman]

Thank you for your comments, Jim et al. I read the Mars-Neptune aspect. I get its relation to OCD but what does it have to do with my problems with assertiveness? I pick up the idea that Neptune and the Moon bend Mars towards imagination and drama. But the Mars-Neptune aspect doesn't seem to suppress Mars at all. It directs Mars' potent energies towards inner demons and illusions but if anything it amplifies or at least supports Martial aggression. It doesn't weaken it. I still don't see the connection with the Mars-Neptune aspect making me timid and repressed.

[Jim Eshelman]

Ultimately, I think you're right that it doesn't weaken it. However, many (most?) people with Mars-Neptune aspects (depending on such things as family patterns) have difficulty expressing anger when young, and have to go through a time of learning clean assertiveness expressed in right proportion to present circumstances.

Note that word "clean" - As an adult, most Mars-Neptune people have to relearn how to deal with anger and assertion because (perhaps due to environmental blocks etc.) they didn't learn to "fight clean." They fight dirty.

So... clean and clear often have to be learned; but you're right, it doesn't stop Mars' sometimes explosive expression. Mars is fire, Neptune is water, and their combination produces scalding steam - in a pressure cooker!

[Jim Eshelman]

Note that word "clean" - As an adult, most Mars-Neptune people have to relearn how to deal with anger and assertion because (perhaps due to environmental blocks etc.) they didn't learn to "fight clean." They fight dirty.

I never fought dirty but I was very passive-aggressive. I would express my anger and assert myself in an underhanded way (like by being very stubborn and unsociable) to the point where I wasn't even aware of it.

But everything else you said rings true for me. As I grow up and become more mature and independent I manage my anger and assertiveness better. These days I try to express my anger in a way that is clear but not belligerent. The same applies to assertiveness. Sexual assertiveness is still a bit of a problem though. I need to go to a lonely hearts club.

[Jim Eshelman]

I never fought dirty but I was very passive-aggressive. I would express my anger and assert myself in an underhanded way...

Heh. That is fighting dirty by definition.

[Jim Eshelman]

I never fought dirty but I was very passive-aggressive. I would express my anger and assert myself in an underhanded way...

Heh. That is fighting dirty by definition.

I don't mean being willfully deceitful. It just happened in a covert way.

[Jim Eshelman]

I never fought dirty but I was very passive-aggressive. I would express my anger and assert myself in an underhanded way...

Heh. That is fighting dirty by definition.

I don't mean being willfully deceitful. It just happened in a covert way.

"Willingly" has nothing to do with it. "Fighting dirty" is a matter of using particular tactics that diverge from clear communication. All sorts of indirect communication tactics, from simple sarcasm through the passive-aggressive spectrum, with various kinds of withholding and incomplete disclosure.

It's not that Mars-Neptune tries to be deceitful. (Some do, of course.) It's that what they actually do in a fight is dirty, indirect, deceptive, withholding.

[Jim Eshelman]

I used to be a pushover to the extent that I got myself taken advantage of on all levels. I disliked confrontations so much and could not speak for myself. Now I have become assertive to the point of being ruthless. I will carry on undeterred if I feel that my rights (or those of others) have been violated in some way. I never flare up or lose my temper, it is all done very calmly and with a certain coldness to it, which my current partner finds somewhat disconcerting (until he needs me to help him exactly that way). I realise I have become this way because of the hardship I have had to endure so far .I believe, if I am not mistaken, this new assertiveness to be an evolution of my tight mars-saturn conjunction, and my partile mercury pluto.

[Jim Eshelman]

Freya wrote:

if I am not mistaken, this new assertiveness to be an evolution of my tight mars-saturn conjunction, and my partile mercury pluto.

Ebertin from COSI writes about positive Mars-Saturn:

Endurance, the power of resistance, indefatigableness. The more energy the more difficulties are overcome or vice versa.

There is no doubt in my mind with your ordeal with your ex that the main tone/theme of your Natal Chart is Mercury partile cnj your Anti-Vertex partile 90 Pluto. Bradley writes about Mercury-Pluto:

Circumstances cause great nervous tension. The native may be backed up against the wall of convention or written law, and must “fight their way out” of the predicament.

I think your ex has been trying to use the law (unjustly) to defeat you in courts of laws. You have fought back with ‘assertiveness’ with strong thinking/speaking powers (Mercury-Pluto). You are simply living the symbolism of your Natal Chart. Jim has taught me very valuable astrological truths. Although the Vertex axis is not an angle but still a very sensitive chart point, we can see this partile Mercury-Pluto-Anti-Vertex in your Natal Chart as being a potent Sidereal Astrology tone/theme in your life with other aspects in your Natal Chart manifesting within the context of this main Mercury-Pluto theme setter in your Natal/Life Chart. IMO, angular Mars partile aspected to Neptune cnj Moon is the main tone/theme setter in Bogdan’s Natal/Life Chart. We astrologers should be thankful for Jim’s forum and teachings—it teaches us a-lot of astrological truths applied to our lives.

[Jim Eshelman]

My bad Bogdan for maybe leading to confusion. I just think that once we see the reality of astrology unfold then we see how it works. As opposed to the other way around-searching, reaching, desiring. I can imagine the future in my mind but until I understand what I imagined, when in reality the here and now, then it is revealed. And the more and more we capture it, the more and more we understand.

[Jim Eshelman]

I don't know how to get the east point in a natal chart on astro.com.

The east point is square the MC near the ASC. The west point is square the MC near the DSC. When you look at the table showing aspects, anything that's square the MC is either conjunct the EP or the WP.

The EP is different from the ASC because the ASC is on the ecliptic, while the EP is on the horizon.

[Jim Eshelman]

Marion just confirmed that Astro.com doesn't have an option to show Eastpoint either under that name or an alternate name like Equatorial Ascendant.

You can have any fictional planet you want, lots of fixed stars, lots of asteroids, but not the Eastpoint.

[Jim Eshelman]

You can have any fictional planet you want, lots of fixed stars, lots of asteroids, but not the Eastpoint.

So the EP isn't square to the MC?

I checked before I posted, so I'm confused, as usual.

[Jim Eshelman]

You can have any fictional planet you want, lots of fixed stars, lots of asteroids, but not the Eastpoint.

So the EP isn't square to the MC?

The Eastpoint is square MC in right ascension, not in zodiacal longitude.

For example, your MC is 0°33' Aquarius. Square to this would be 0°33' Taurus-Scorpio. But your EP is 5°02' Taurus.

This is only an approximation as well, though most of the time it's a good one. That is, since the EP-WP contacts are not measured in ecliptical longitude but in RA, a planet not exactly on the ecliptic (almost anything except Sun) will be lesser or greater amounts distorted. But the EP we put in the chart is a good flag that we should check.

In your case, Mars at 4°24' Taurus is 0°38' of longitude from EP at 5°02' Taurus. Here, though, is how we really should look at it. In right ascension:

Mars RA 56°17'
EP RA 57°27'

They are really 1°10' apart, not 0°38' apart. This makes no practical difference, but it shows that there is a difference. Your Mars is 2°09' north of the ecliptic, so these things start mattering a bit.

It's like all mundane positions. Your Mars is 4°24' Taurus, but your Mars is on the MC/IC/EP/WP when that angle is 3°55' Taurus. A little more extreme, your Mars rises when Ascendant is 1°01' and sets when the Descendant is 5°44' Taurus.